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Location: New York, NY | I don't know if this had been discussed before (I've been out of the loop for a while), but I visited the Ovation guitars website a few days ago. It looks like all remaining Ovation production (Legend/Elite, Custom Legend/Elite) has been moved overseas. All LX models have been discontinued and have been replaced by AX series ("A" is for Asia?). Even the MM68 mandolin is now MM68AX. It appears mostly Adamas will only still be made in New Hartford.
While it is nice to an Ovation Legend actually in my price range, I'm still saddened to see the US models go overseas. I think "made in USA" was a selling point that Ovation never really took advantage of (see Carvin). I still miss the old US Balladeers; they were a made in USA bargain.
Not happy :( |
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Location: south east Michigan | Neither am I.
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Even tho you can still have special orders made. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | why don't you send a letter to Fender and tell them so? |
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Location: south east Michigan | Okay... why don't we all just up a do that?
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Let's figure out who is the best person to send something to and get his/her address.
Let's make the letters clear, polite, and concise. (note to PEZ... have someone ghost write yours)
Should have done this two years ago. |
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Location: Michigan | End of everything USA. Like Brad's idea. I'll sign on for a letter. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Credit where credit is due... it was Beal's suggestion. |
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| Should have done this two years ago. A letter doesn't have anywhere near the influence that your wallet does. People simply weren't buying the more expensive US-made guitars, but they sure were (and are) buying shitloads of Celebs. |
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Location: south east Michigan | You're probably right g8r. It's all water over the damn now anyway.
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I used to think that "we" and the OFC had, at least to some small extent, the the ear of the factory.
I don't think "we" are relevant anymore.
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I still like the idea of a letter tho. |
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Location: Bellevue, Washington | Originally posted by G8r:
Should have done this two years ago. A letter doesn't have anywhere near the influence that your wallet does. People simply weren't buying the more expensive US-made guitars, but they sure were (and are) buying shitloads of Celebs.
And thats not to discount Guitar Center either, although I prefer not to shop there because their prices are hyper-inflated and the staff is lacking in more ways than one generally... that doesn't mean I don't stop in when I just happen to be driving by and have nothing better to do. Who knows, maybe you'll find a gem. It certainly wouldn't be the first or last time!
I completely agree with the sentiment that the best way to show them we want USA made products is with our wallets, but if ready access isn't available to anything but the Korean mades, how can the guitar players community be blamed? |
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| Yeah, I know. It's a chicken-egg argument, though. Big-box retail chains like GC and SA stock lots of the imports and few if any higher-end US-made, so people can't compare to see & hear the quality and tonal differences, so the imports move in droves, so the retailers order more imports and fewer domestic, so production is adjusted to meet demand, so even fewer domestics make it out to be tried, so even more imports are sold...(lather, rinse, repeat)
Sucks big time, but it's the nature of global business in the 21st century. At least the institutional expertise at the Kaman plant wasn't lost; few (if any) of the line folks lost their jobs, unlike what usually happens in such cases these days. They're just making a different guitar now (and doing a damn good job of it). |
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Location: Texas | Well, FMIC isn't going to wax reminiscent with us, other than a sympathetic response. They have a company to run. And they have to run it in tough times. I am sure they have figured out where the Ovation demand is and will meet it. Thats how they make money. Too bad the paychecks FMIC doles out are in a different currency. That makes the score...American Craftsman 0 \ Ovation 0
Personally, I wouldn't buy a new American made Ovation (can't afford an Adamas). I think you can get as good as, if not better acoustical sound from the 70'ish produced Ovations...and for less $$$. The amped sound has always been a strong point, so I dont see that as a factor (especially if you run through a DI box), regardless of the year.
Yes, my conviction is part of the problem, but can you blame the consumer? Ovation sound quality (unplugged) (imho) just has not improved with age. So if you are going to spend the big (American) bucks for a NEW guitar, doesn't unplugged depth and richness of sound and tone come into play????
We use to make steel and Ovations in this country. As great as free enterprise and capitalism is for this nation, it has caused its' fair amount of causalities when it comes to American Made. |
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Location: Utah | At the RoadShow last Saturday they sold 6 or 8 guitars, all AX and TX. The value is outstanding and consumers buy it.
Of the 42 people there, I and Sara were the only ones to test drive the Adamas wood top. The sales folks pushed the lower priced models, stressed the discount pricing, and put the Adamas slightly away from the main group.
They obviously are pushing 'low price' as the marketing theme.
They also hinted at some kind of carbon fiber migration to lower priced models, which I interpret as AdamasAX.
The VIP preamp is discontinued, which is their highest tech and best sounding preamp in a modern carbon fiber guitar.
If I didn't have tuition payments on 3 kids I would have a custom Adamas and a custom Hamer. I'm not buying any new AX guitars even if they are cheaper. |
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Location: south east Michigan | They also hinted at some kind of carbon fiber migration to lower priced models My duo partner has said for years... "If they ever figure a way to make a carbon fiber top guitar in the $900 to $1200 range... look out." |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by Slipkid:
I used to think that "we" and the OFC had, at least to some small extent, the the ear of the factory. Don't underestimate our impact. I suspect this may, at least in some partial way, be the reason why we can still have a custom USA-made Ovation or Adamas, albeit by special order. Fender certainly could have shut it down completely, but didn't. If there is no demand, then it likely will be shut down. Somebody is looking out for our interests. I hope we don't let them down. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Slipkid:
They also hinted at some kind of carbon fiber migration to lower priced models My duo partner has said for years... "If they ever figure a way to make a carbon fiber top guitar in the $900 to $1200 range... look out."
Yeah... You can order a custom whatever, but who does?
There are a few dedicated fans... But generally people will just buy the Korean stuff.
BC Rich, Fender, and most other companies have a USA Custom Shop...
But this is like the Custom Strats that Fender peddles...
Why would I give $9K for a rewired Road-worn Gilmour Strat, when I can just get a Strat and rewire it myself?
I will stick with Used, Pre-Fender, USA Ovations... Regardless of my income.
♪♫Just hang on, to what you've Got♫♪ |
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Location: Nashville TN. | My friend Lisa was buying her first real guitar.
She would not even buying a new made in korea guitar even though it cost less. She ended up with a used Adamas 1597. Made in USA matters to her. Had she not that one she would looking at Martin Breedlov and other $1000 USA made guitar. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Tony PD:
I don't know if this had been discussed before (I've been out of the loop for a while), but I visited the Ovation guitars website a few days ago. It looks like all remaining Ovation production (Legend/Elite, Custom Legend/Elite) has been moved overseas. All LX models have been discontinued and have been replaced by AX series ("A" is for Asia?). Even the MM68 mandolin is now MM68AX. It appears mostly Adamas will only still be made in New Hartford.
While it is nice to an Ovation Legend actually in my price range, I'm still saddened to see the US models go overseas. I think "made in USA" was a selling point that Ovation never really took advantage of (see Carvin). I still miss the old US Balladeers; they were a made in USA bargain.
Not happy :( I have suggestesd a few time to Danny & Adam that they introduce "American Balladeer" $1300 street (old balladeer bracing) and "American Legend" $1600 street (A brace). All make 2 of each take take on at the road show (deep no cutaway) make then on order available Deep Cutaway, Deep Conture, Med bowl or Super Shallow.
The with Traditional Series Ovations did not sell because no one had them in stock. No one could try one.
Fact with current line up of guitars made USA
I can't see what there I would by. I do not play other peoples signature models.
When went to the open mic at the Thomaston Opera house I brought Ovation 1117 made in 1980. Everyone was being mic'd Most of the guitars vintage Gibson 3 & Martins 8. My legend was probably the sounding guitar that night. It was the only that sound man had rush to turn the mic down on, as much bigger sound than the other guitars. Sadly the worst mic;ed guitar was deep conture LX Balladeer which sounds pretty plugged in the past but mic'ed. |
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Location: Flahdaw | It's getting harder and harder.... |
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Location: north coast ohio | Built in the USA was the 2nd reason I justified buying the K-1111 RI. Am still surprised how many people have no clue there is a difference between Us and celebrity built guitars |
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Location: Flahdaw | Try to find a Collings, Merrill, Santa Cruz, McPherson, etc at a Guitar Center. You want a custom made, built in America guitar...you're gonna have to order it. Why should Ovation be any different? |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by mgbgt:
I am still surprised how many people have no clue there is a difference between Us and celebrity built guitars For fans like us, it may very well be surprising, but for the vast majority of uninformed consumers, the country of origin would make no difference, even if they knew it. Beyond our small world of Ovation, these same consumer demographics likely apply to us as well.
For example, in 1993 I bought a Schwinn bicycle because I had reasonably good luck with the brand prior thereto. I paid about $500 for what was then called a hybrid because it had upright bars and twenty-something speeds like a mountain bike, but smaller street tires like a road bike. My intent was to use it to commute to work, which I've done three or four days a week for the past 18 years, without fail, and with great satisfaction. This was not an expensive bike back then, and it certainly isn't by today's standards. Until recently, I had no idea where the bike was built, nor did I really care. The brand was old American and recognizable. Recently, I had to replace the front tire (actually, the entire front wheel which was stolen), and noticed that the bike was built in Japan.
My point is that if I went to a Schwinn bicycle forum, I'm sure there would be those on the forum who know all about every product ever made by Schwinn, including some who might be surprised that although I am a heavy user of the product, I nonetheless remain clueless as to its parts and pieces, including its origin. I don't even know how many speeds it really has. I know its a bunch. I use two. If I posted a request for advice about a replacement on the Schwinn forum, and told them how often I intended to ride it, they'd probably steer me toward some high end model, maybe even something used from Schwinn's golden years. Certainly there would be those who would suggest that anything from overseas for less that $X,XXX wouldn't work for my needs.
This analogy can be applied to lots of products we use everyday. Hand tools certainly come to mind. Cars are another. Does anybody really brand-shop for gasoline? If Union Oil sells gas for $5.00/gallon and across the street, you can buy it for $2.50/gallon from the Korean Exchange without noticing any difference in your car's performance (I'm not saying there isn't a difference, but for your driving habits, you just don't notice it), are you really going to care that the snobs on the Union Oil forum recommend against cheap overseas gas?
Because we are fans of Ovation products, we pride ourselves in our knowledge of their features. For me, when it comes to other things which I use everyday but have no passion for or about, it comes as no surprise that I am relative uninformed about them. Ovation is a business, pure and simple. We are fans of their products, not their business model or strategy, about which most of us know very little. There is one additional factor to consider. For the younger generations who have grown up in a true world business economy, they may actually see American products as inferior to what is being produced overseas. The motorcycle industry is a prime example. The automotive industry is another, although the gap is lessening. Pick up a Takamine and compare it against a Martin or Collings in the same price category. Dell computers are considered to be pretty good products. Its the only model we buy, over a hundred annually, and they're all made in Indonesia.
Is that a bell I hear ringing? Class dismissed. |
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Location: south east Michigan | That is magazine article material there Brad...
well said. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | I brand shop gasoline....... I'll even pay a little more Sunoco.. all their oil comes North America.
Motorcycle Harley 50% market share in the USA 30% world wide sales. They are largest producer motorcycles over 800cc in the world.
Major Japanese brands all make Harley look alike....
There are now 5 US Motorcycle manufactuers.
Harley Victory Indian Saxson and SuckerPunch Sallys
I do check where my products are made before buying them. When practical I buy the American made product.
I know Takamine makes a great guitar but I have 0 interest in buying. I am certianly not buying a Korean made Ovation. If I can buy USA made Martin for $900.
If my house burned dowm or burglerized lost all my guitars Ovation has nothing for me. I bought a bunch new Ovations. Ovation lost consumer because I saw made in Korea in stores. Ovation was anything deep no cut away..... I bought a Martin Then I bought Guild then I came back when I found out the 1719 was available.
I have chatted with many people in other country who want American made Ovations. |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by PEZ:
I do check where my products are made before buying them. When practical I buy the American made product.
I do too, and have done so since the 1980's. My wife just ordered a new Ford Focus, made in Michigan USA. The gas savings alone will make the payments (she drives a lot for work), and the technology is second to none.
There is a hidden cost in buying imports. Maybe some of those Ford employees will buy airline tickets for vacation, keeping me employed. |
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Location: Miami | The Korean craftsmanship, in fact (and I can say this after playing a dozen different Korean guitars) actually quite good. But, at least with the Elite T models (both the 1868 and the 1778) they changed up the parts (ebony for rosewood and a much thicker top), and the (unplugged) sound considerably suffers.
I am a bit depressed about the guitars going overseas, but even moreso about the fact that they're not even using the same parts to make them cheaper.
Sign me up for that letter. |
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Location: Tennessee | Hey Joe - didja get your custom Adamas completed? Got any pictures? |
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Location: SoCal | Gotta hit the price point where they'll sell..... |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Gotta hit the price point where they'll sell..... I keep coming back to the question, why is that price point higher for Martins and Taylors?
Most large music stores have $2 - $3,000 Martin and Taylors on display and they seem to sell. Why not Ovation?
OK, Martin has the name and history, but Taylor? What are they doing right to promote their US (and Mexican) guitars that Ovation seems to be doing wrong? |
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Location: Miami | Nothing yet. :( |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by fletcher:
Most large music stores have $2 - $3,000 Martin and Taylors on display and they seem to sell. Why not Ovation?
OK, Martin has the name and history, but Taylor? What are they doing right to promote their US (and Mexican) guitars that Ovation seems to be doing wrong? Chuck at Apple Music Row in Portland was just starting to move a Lot of USA Ovations when Fender bought Kaman. He was telling me that suddenly he had moved 14 USA Ovations and had to order more. This was in 2006.
He had discovered that you have to Have more USA Ovations in stock to sell more.
But Fender NEVER had any intention of pushing Ovations...
Well, pushing the manufacture overseas.
They have NO loyalty to Ovation. And apparently no Loyalty to the USA. Fck that "Worldwide Economy" BS. That makes no sense. Every other business is smart enough to understand that you need to employ your OWN citizens first. USA Capitalist piggies and Wall Street pushed this Worldwide Economy crap to fatten their own wallets. Only these stupid geniuses with business degrees don't understand that you need to employ your own workers. Even China and Korea understand that! That is why they MAKE Fender, and Ovation, guitars there.
"But in a worldwide economy we have to move to Asia because that is where the customers are..."
Chicken/Egg... The customers are where the JOBS are.
And once those booming economies move-up, their wages won't be any cheaper that US wages.
Uh... And NO! I don't have to look at it from Fender's point-of-view. :p |
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Location: NJ | I have plenty of USA adamas and ovations in stock |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I think folks pay more attention than some of us think.
I noted on another thread my disappointment that one must take care when looking at Ovations online because it's getting harder to tell the the new import AX's from the older USA-makes, specifically; I nearly bought an MM-68 until I noted the "AX" WAAYYY down in the ad. I followed an eBay auction and noticed the bid for one of the new MM-68-AX stayed below $500, the same price sellers used to get for a new celebrity mando. And I'll bet the new AX mandos don't play or sound as good as the two USA mandos that I own now.
I'm not typically a pessimist, but I'm going to utilize the factory as much as I can right now, because I just don't think the opportunity to do so is guaranteed into the future. I have no real business sense to base that on, it's just the way I feel about it. |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by alpep:
I have plenty of USA adamas and ovations in stock If you only had locations across the country.... |
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Location: closely held secret | He ships very reasonably. |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Agreed.
But think if you could walk into a "local" shop that had Al's knowledge and inventory. Can't help but think Adamas and Ovation sales would rise dramatically.
I think there are a lot of people that need to hold and play an instrument (especially an expensive one) before they will lay down their cash. |
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Location: Texas | Fletcher...
Taylor sells because it is Taylor against the world.
FMIC has to be careful not to cannibalize its own sales, while trying compete against the others. That's the problem. Ovation use to be Taylor and they had a marketing strategy that was successful. Look at all those album covers...watch that info commercial about buying the 180 CDs of love songs from the 80's...OVATION OVATION OVATION...is all you see in the pics and vid clips.
Maybe it is a different time with different music, but FMIC is not going to get out there and go balls to the wall to make Ovation guitars that todays popular artists will showcase.
When a popular artist career has waned, all you see from them that sells is the "Greatest Hits" compilations. How many re-issues from Ovation have we seen. Why? Kinda sad, eh?
I think the integrity of Ovation guitar was compromised with the advent of Celebrity and Applause. With the sale to FMIC, the ovation purist in me can hear the fat lady warming up the pipes. |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by jay:
FMIC is not going to get out there and go balls to the wall to make Ovation guitars that todays popular artists will showcase.
I disagree. They have a number of popular artists using their guitars now. It was one of the big selling points pushed at the RoadShow presentation. A number of high school and college age musicians seem to like the cool newness of the technology, not knowing that Ovation pioneered the whole A/E thing and roundback idea 3+ decades ago!
I think they shouldn't try to push themselves as the 60's singer-songwriter guitar, which would just make the guitar seem old and stale.
Originally posted by jay:
I think the integrity of Ovation guitar was compromised with the advent of Celebrity and Applause. With the sale to FMIC, the ovation purist in me can hear the fat lady warming up the pipes. I would refine that to be that the integrity was compromised when the distinction between Ovation USA and the lower price point imports was blurred. Lots of first time buyers bought a Celeb or Applause, and then aspired to own a higher quality USA made guitar. An entry level and mid level to the product line is wise. Losing the distinction is bad. |
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Location: Spotsylvania, VA | It's sad to me that Ovation has all but moved everything overseas. It's makes me feel as bad as I did on that day many years ago when my old Packard finally died and I could no longer drive to Burger Chef. The only constant is change... |
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End of Ovation USA?