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October 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Chatham-Kent, Ontario, Canada | Well, in a sharp turn of events, "my" 2008 1777 LX which I quickly grew very fond of has quickly left my possession.
I picked up the 1777 at a pawn shop a few weeks ago for a very good price...almost too good a price I thought. Earlier this week I was researching the guitar and learned that this guitar (conformed by serial # against police records) was stolen during a break & enter earlier in the year. I was literally sick to my stomach when I found this out.
I could not in good conscience keep the guitar knowing that someone else had taken it from the rightful owner, so I contacted the police department in the town from which it was stolen and subsequently turned over the guitar to the police this afternoon. The police are confident I will get my money back................... eventually...............maybe.
So tonight while I am typing this, I am looking at an empty hanger on my wall, and am pretty bitter about the (temporary?) empty space in my bank account.
I am happy though that the rightful owner will get his/her guitar back. If I am ever in a similar situation I hope someone would do the same for me.
But for now, it looks like I will be keeping an eye on the OFC for-sale pages for something as special to come up. |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | I was gonna beg you to run for congress, but then saw you were a Canadian. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I commend you for your honesty.
That woulda been a hard decision for me.
Good luck in the search for a replacement. |
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January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | The pawn shop has the obligation to do the due diligence that you did, before they purchased the guitar. You should have taken the guitar, the sales receipt and met the police at the pawn shop. In the USA, bottom line is...they sold you stolen goods, which is an offense in itself.
Most states in the USA regulate pawn shops and I would assume that a pawn shop does not want to put its license in jeopardy with the regulatory branch of that state over a couple of hundred bucks.
Oh Canada....I am not sure how your recourse would match up with ours...but I would take the police report where the PD supplemented your turning over the stolen property (the same guitar on the receipt) return to the pawn shop, show them the receipt and the police report and see what they say...after you tell (not ask)them you want a refund...then if that fails...use your dick Tracy skills to find the regulatory agency that oversees that pawn shop...and then tell them your woes and hopefully they help you out. |
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October 2008
Posts: 639
Location: NW of Philadelphia | Serious karma points earned. You made another Ovation owner very happy. Hopefully you find another O that pleases you like 1777 did. |
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April 2010
Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | Kudos to you sir!!!
May the Ovation of your dreams show up soon... at a great price!!! |
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November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | The Universe already has your reward in the works. What went around is going to come around to you. Honesty is always the best, most decent policy. |
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October 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Chatham-Kent, Ontario, Canada | Thank you to everyone for the kind and encouraging words. Turning the guitar over to the police really was a very easy decision for me. I too believe in the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" mantra.
In Ontario (Canada) there exists the Pawn Brokers' Act, which essentially requires pawn shop to be licensed a local level, and requires:
Daily report to police
13.(1)Every pawnbroker shall before noon of every business day make a report either for the chief of police or for such other person as is designated by by-law of the council of the municipality.
Contents
(2)Such reports shall contain, in respect of every transaction made on the next preceding business day, all the information required under section 9 to be entered in the pawnbroker’s book.
Form
(3)Such reports may be on forms to be furnished by the municipality or may be copies of the pawnbroker’s book reproduced by any means whatsoever so long as the copy is legible. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.6, s. 13.
According to the police officer I was dealing with over this issue, he said indeed pawn brokers are required to maintain a database of who brings in what and who buys it. However, if an item is sold outright to the pawnshop, the shop is only required to get the name and address of that individual, but is not required to submit the "transaction" for review by the police. Records are only submitted to the police when an item is "pawned".
The investigating officer will pursue charges (against the person who brought the guitar in to the pawn shop, and against the shop if they did not follow the accepted protocols), and in doing so, will seek restitution on my behalf. He was (optimistically) confident that I will eventually get my money back.
Until then, I will optimistically pessimistic. |
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January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | You did the right thing, rondeauboy. The world could use more folks with values as admirable as yours. I've purchased three guitars from pawn shops over the years, and on each occasion couldn't take delivery until the "police hold period" had expired. |
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Location: SoCal | "No good deed goes unpunished"?
But you did good..... |
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Posts: 4233
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Good on ya Rondeau Boy! |
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Posts: 119
Location: NH | Great story. My hat's off to you, sir! |
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Posts: 402
Location: New Hartford CT | Pawn shop requirements are similar in the states. Problem is the database, at least locally, hasn't been maintained and is useless. It takes a dedicated and tech savvy person in the department to run the operation and with budgets stretched to the limit I can confirm first hand that it's not a priority.
The average Joe can conduct a more efficient investigation by 'helping' the police. Supply them with information you dig up yourself and you have a much better chance of recovering your gear, or finding out if what you're purchasing is hot. It's the DIY age and today we have the tools to make things happen. |
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Posts: 747
| Originally posted by rondeauboy:
... and against the shop if they did not follow the accepted protocols), and in doing so, will seek restitution on my behalf. He was (optimistically) confident that I will eventually get my money back.
Until then, I will optimistically pessimistic. If the shop refuses to cough up the money you might consider a small claims action against them. If successful, you would get your money back and some court costs.
As the amount at issue is somewhat nominal the shop may decide that it's cheaper for them to settle with you rather than explain to the court why selling stolen property is OK in their world.
See how it goes but small claims court is an option to consider should all else fail. If you go that route send them a demand letter first stating the circumstances of the transaction, amount owed to you and advising that if they do not pay by cash or certified cheque w/in 10 days you will commence proceedings against them w/out further notice. |
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March 2008
Posts: 354
Location: nashville | No reward money from the owner, I would at least by you a set of stings and a new capo. |
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November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | If you paid by credit card, there's always things like Visa dispute resolution. Contact your credit card company for details if this applies.
And another goodonya! for simply doing the right thing. |
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May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | I commend you on your honesty. I've had several guitars stolen from me just recently, and I am SICK over it. The guitars were fenced by two different establishments, one being a well-known shop ("Shoppe"=clue to the store, the name of which I will refrain from posting here). This particular shop owner has fenced at least SIX of my guitars and at least two autoharps. The police have done NOTHING. Three of my guitars were stolen and fenced to him AGAIN. Of those guitars, two of them were quite unique. A positive MINT 12 fret, vintage 12 string custom legend and a gorgeous, vintage Kay archtop guitar. This 'fella' shit that he is, surely had the serial numbers from my guitars the FIRST time he fenced them. When I called him, he admitted he had the guitars and said "FU*K you, Lady. If you want these guitars you can come buy them back, just like anyone else. He paid about $75.00 a piece for them. Hell is still breaking loose, but despite all facts, that one fella in Redbank should be held responsible in some way. My brother, who retrieved three of my guitars asked him, "What do you do when you get ahold of a stolen guitar?" His response: "I SELL them." True; swear to God. I am SICK over this. I might have something you'd like to replace your guitar with. Send me a PM and let me know what you might be interested in. :)
Willa |
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May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | HOLY SH*T! I just found this one on Ebay! I wrote him, but I know he's gonna screw with me ... now I'm going to try and find the others.
LOOK HERE: MY STOLEN CUSTOM LEGEND!
:( |
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May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | The um, 'seller' writes in the description that the guitar's top is 'bulging slightly'. That's a LIE. My boyfriend MAKES guitars, and he examined that guitar. Believe me, it was pristine, so can someone tell me if in fact it NOW has a 'bulging top' what would have caused such a thing, and who 'eats' THAT, repair-wise? I know this man is going to give me trouble. My nerves can't take it, I swear. |
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October 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Chatham-Kent, Ontario, Canada | A bitter-sweet ending......
First the sweet:
The Ovation was returned to its rightful and VERY happy owner. He did not have insurance on the guitar when it was stolen so he was very happy to get his guitar back. I too am extremely happy for him.
Now the bitter:
Looks like I am probably S.O.L. in getting my money back. In the police investigation it was determined that the pawn shop where I purchased the guitar followed all applicable municipal and provincial regulations when it purchased the guitar from the seller. The time line which has elapsed is going to make it very difficult to prove wrongdoing of the seller original seller to the pawn shop as that person claims that he too was a victim in not knowing the guitar was stolen when he bought it.
Lesson learned:
If the deal seems too good to be true, then it is, and it is probably stolen.
Now to find another guitar. Anyone looking to sell a 1777LX, 2077LX, or 2079LX still in really good condition? |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Willa, not to be a jerk but maybe you need to change the locks or put some sort of security system in place.
Multiple thefts of your guitars also indicates someone you probably know who has knowledge of what you own. |
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January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | Stephen...
You are correct in that it might be someone familiar with her possessions...
Another possibility is that it is the same thief. Usually a burglar wants to spend the least amount of time gathering the goods, so they always measure risk/reward of returning for what they couldn't get, but wanted, the first time in. Additionally, it is not uncommon for them to wait until the victim has gotten an insurance check and replaced the stolen items....
And in hard times...crime runs rampant. |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | That's another good reason not to post pics of our guitars all over the internet. Everyone KNOWS I have a lot of guitars because I own a music store, but if I didn't, I don't think I'd post any pics or possibly even MENTION them online. |
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April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by rondeauboy:
A bitter-sweet ending......
First the sweet:
The Ovation was returned to its rightful and VERY happy owner. He did not have insurance on the guitar when it was stolen so he was very happy to get his guitar back. I too am extremely happy for him.
Now the bitter:
Looks like I am probably S.O.L. in getting my money back. In the police investigation it was determined that the pawn shop where I purchased the guitar followed all applicable municipal and provincial regulations when it purchased the guitar from the seller. The time line which has elapsed is going to make it very difficult to prove wrongdoing of the seller original seller to the pawn shop as that person claims that he too was a victim in not knowing the guitar was stolen when he bought it.
Lesson learned:
If the deal seems too good to be true, then it is, and it is probably stolen.
Now to find another guitar. Anyone looking to sell a 1777LX, 2077LX, or 2079LX still in really good condition? First, kudos on your honesty. Secondly, regardless of whether they followed procedure, they still sold you something they had no right to sell. I would be confident you would win a civil suit on that basis alone.
Is there a Canadian lawyer in this club? |
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April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | |
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January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
That's another good reason not to post pics of our guitars all over the internet. Everyone KNOWS I have a lot of guitars because I own a music store, but if I didn't, I don't think I'd post any pics or possibly even MENTION them online. I was gonna say the same thing. It isn't too hard to find out where ANYONE lives. Might as well post pictures of all the jewelry you own... |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | BTW... I sold off all my gits and moved to the upper peninsula. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Isn't hard to find where somebody lives? When they own a house and aren't hiding, sure.
The people I look for are a different story..... |
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January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
The people I look for are a different story..... So, any recent sightings of Bigfoot? |
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March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by dark bar:
Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
The people I look for are a different story..... So, any recent sightings of Bigfoot? |
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July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Good for you! |
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A Short-lived Relationship