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Location: south east Michigan | Alison wrote....
And of course to me, the guitar part is way more important than the vocals. .
This has been a topic of discussion in between songs at practice over the years.
We've come to the conclusion that although it's important to have to play the guitar well enough to support the song, it's more the vocals that people respond to. The exception might be when the crowd is chock full of guitar geeks like us, but even then, unless it's a Dimeola concert, the guitar supports the vocals.
At least that's the conclusion we came to. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Completely agree man. My gigs are all just covers of songs people know, and my "skill" as a guitarist is minimal, it's just there because if it wasn't..well I'd have nothing to sing to.
I guess it depends on the act? if I was good enough to do great driving rhythm like Keith Richards then ok...it would be all about that... |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Yes, I know that to be a good ENTERTAINER, you really should have good vocals and good lyrics. But I have never considered myself an entertainer. I'm just a guitar geek who plays for/with my friends.
Back when I used to play in bands, my goal was to make the singer look good. Well, actually she already did LOOK good, which is why my stagefright never kicked in - they were all looking at her!
But to me, if you're playing with a vocalist, that is your job - to make the vocalist sound even better. Little fills, inflection, and most important of all - stay out of her way. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think it's based on the tune and arrangement. I believe every instrument, including vocals, makes up the tune.
There are times when the music is just something to support the vocal, but there are plenty of times when the voice and music compliment each other. |
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Location: south east Michigan | What you said Alison just sparked the topic.
1) If you're backing a vocalist, of course the guitar comes first.
2)No matter what the talent level, I give anyone and everyone a TON of props for getting up there in front of a crowd in the first place. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Yes Miles... they have to compliment each other.
Especially to "us". We are our own hardest critic.
What I mean is that to the general population.. those that can't tell a major from a minor or a Martin from an Ovation, it's the vocals that are paid the most attention to. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | For me it depends on the tune. Sometimes it's a great arrangement that sits out front, sometimes it's a great vocal and sometimes it's the lyrics. When it really works, it's two of the three. In extremely rare cases, it's all three but you don't hear that very often. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Because I'm more of a picker, I think I put TOO much guitar into my performance. Behind my singing is way too much melody. I'm working on simplifying my rhythm playing and not over-picking. (it's real hard for me) |
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Location: Jet City | It depends on the band. I think most of the heavy stuff since the 60's has been more about the music. If you're talking "pop" or singer/songwriter type stuff, well it's more lyrical, especially acoustic music.
I'm playing in 2 bands actively. One is all covers, I sing most the songs, and the emphasis for me there is my vocals as an entertainer. The other band's where I mostly play guitar, so of course, that's what I'm focusing on. It's actually the most challenging of the two because usually I dream things up that are beyond my skill level, but I try (and quite often fail) anyway.
I'd really have to say the music and the groove is what people respond to mostly in that band. Nobody has a clue what the lyrics are, though the tone and stylings of how the lyrics are sung is every bit as important to the musicality of the song. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Yeah, there's all kinds of situations.
In my world it's just the two guys with two guitars thing.
To be specific, I'm talking in generalities. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I guess what I was trying to say is that I agree with you. The guitar should be background to singing and merely support it. Don't overplay. |
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Location: Ohio | You can fake the guitar parts a fills, but you can;t fake the vocals. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | In my world neither one matters because no one is listening.
Actually, the lyrics used to be most important because I sang before I played guitar. Of the singers I hung out with, I was most impressed with those who also played guitar. The type of guitar song that intrigued me most at first was the melodic fingerstyle, which is how I started. I favor the blend of voice and guitar woven together, but if the vocals are poor, I won't like the song. Instrumental is fine, but if a good guitar player sings off-key, I'm out of there.
Edit: I just took way too many words to say what Nikon said in a few. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Weaser P:
For me it depends on the tune. Sometimes it's a great arrangement that sits out front, sometimes it's a great vocal and sometimes it's the lyrics. When it really works, it's two of the three. In extremely rare cases, it's all three but you don't hear that very often. Bruce Cockburn. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Sometimes your vocals need to be what speaks to people, sometimes it your guitar (or other instrument!) that speaks to people. It's a rare thing to be able to do both at the same time. That's what makes artists like Hendrix, SRV, Harrison, Thompson and the like so special. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | By the third pass of a new song, I generally can play it. Twenty years later, I may still not know the words. That's just me. On the other hand, SWMBO listens to a new song and can generally sing it by the third pass. A lot of teens do the same thing. I'm obviously the oddball here. They hear the words while I hear the instrumentation. For most consumers, I have to believe their interests are in the entire package first, with melody, lyrics and instrumentation or arrangement following in that order. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
[QB] In my world neither one matters because no one is listening. Ha! I spilled my beer when I read that!! :) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I know all the words when the record is playing.
Then I try it alone and realize I know nothing.
I have always been in love with harmonies. I love them and acts that have them ALWAYS get my attention. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I try to play guitar because I cannot sing.
(and I am polite enough not to try)
Therefore I try to play recognizable songs, and the listeners can add the words in their heads.
(or sing along, as many do)
BUT! When you remember a song, you remember the lyrics. |
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Location: Michigan | hey brad it is impossible to pick one over the other vocals or guitars it just depends on the bands or performers that you listen to.
how about these bands.
what wins out on your question ???
please post your opinion on these bands
vocals lead or guitars lead.
cream
zz top
prince ( or whatever his fuc#$%g sign is )
brad (your favorite) the who
santana
frank zappa & the mothers of invention
dark bar
there just isn't a right or wrong answer to it.GWB |
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Location: south east Michigan | I guess the "vs" in the thread name can mean a competition, but I didn't mean that.
I wasn't thinking about the pros (like darkbar).
I'm just think more about the proverbial "us". |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | 99 times out of 100, I'm simultaneously playing singing, or vice-versa. But I enjoy the rare occasions when I only have to play or only have to sing. Then you really get to pay attention to the mechanics and techniques that make both worth doing well...or at least as well as possible. |
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Location: Michigan | what would freddie and the fishsticks think would be on top voice guitars or dress :D GWB |
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Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Never thought of this topic much before as I am just a strummer, but I have a friend who is a talented AE guitar man (with no taste...prefers a Taylor over an Adamas). But when he plays and sings, he is so focused on throwing licks in that his vocals feel dis-jointed and lost.
And in a group...forget about it....he disappears into a parallel dimension leaving the rest of us wondering where he went....too hard. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Slipkid:
I wasn't thinking about the pros (like darkbar). I'm thinking that was a dig, Sir Bradley....
I'm gonna stick to my stupid, smart alec comments from here on out. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Hey... GWB put you on that list.... not me. |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I don't feel my voice is great enough to be up front, but I believe I do a good job on back-up vocals, as I can harmonize well and stay in key. My guitar playing is mediocre in my opinion, but I love playing and others seem to enjoy it also, so I press on. I HAVE decided that the most important thing to me in a song where the vocals are emphasized, is that the words are clear and understandable. Regardless of whether it is vocals or instrumentation, I like to apply the words of Wynton Marsalis, (as he spoke to a group of elementary school children during a music clinic in Chicago)when he said... "Every note in a song should be clearly intentional and for a purpose". I have heard some performances where the vocals and/or instrumentation were not all that great, but a clear message within the song overshadowed any imperfection of the performer. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | The human voice is the original musical instrument. Everyone owns one and can relate in some way. A lot of what people try do with guitars and other instruments is to emulate the human voice.
I believe the average member of the general public responds more to vocals. A lot of people don't like instrumental music and are bored by it. But I don't think anyone says, I hate music with vocals! But music is more successful when they work together. Take the great guitar hook out of Daytripper and I'm not sure we'd all remember the song.
Personally I listen more to the guitar and instrumentation than to vocals/lyrics and I listen to a lot of instrumental music. There are songs I have listened to for 20 years that I couldn't tell you what the words were, but I can play or at least whistle the guitar part.
As a guitar player it's the guitar, to most non-musicians it's all about the vocals. I think a great singer can get by being a mediocre guitar player far more than a great guitar player can being a mediocre singer.
My two cents... |
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May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | This may not be a popular thing to say on this forum but I think good guitar players are a dime a dozen. You can hardly fling a cat without hitting a good guitar player. Where as a great vocalist is a little less common and stands out more.
And when you think of the very best bands, they usually have several great vocalists, think The Beatles, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Crosby Stills Nash, etc.
I appreciate a great guitar player as much as anyone. But especially in the singer/songwriter/acoustic guitar genre I think the public pays much more attention to vocals. |
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Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Originally posted by Brian T:
...I think good guitar players are a dime a dozen. You can hardly fling a cat without hitting a good guitar player. Too true, too true.
Saw a bum on the corner,
Guitar on his knee.
Said he’d sing for his supper,
But, I’ll be damned, he played better than me.
Too many guitars – too many for me
All those guitars baby, why can’t they leave me be.
from "Too Many Guitars" by Scott Henderson |
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| Originally posted by Brian T:
a great vocalist is a little less common and stands out more.
I think the public pays much more attention to vocals. No question about this. I'd much rather lose ground on my guitar playing ability than my vocal ability. I happen to be a very good vocalist, and that's what makes me stand out among the singer/guitarists in my area. |
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September 2005
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | ...Wish I could say that.
But on the other hand, I remember reviewing a video of an armless guitar player on YouTube, and asking God to forgive me for complaining. |
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Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Vocals.
I'm a better-than-average singer, IMHO, a pretty accomplished finger picker, and a solid rhythm strummer - but I can only play minor leads and fills without a lot of practice.
And what would be the point? If I learn a hot solo and I'm playing alone, the bottom drops out when I play the lead. I wish I could play like Stephen Stills on "Treetop Flyer" or "Black Queen." THAT'S how to play solo acoustic.
At any rate, I try to fashion myself after James Taylor and Lightfoot when I play solo - keep the guitar part fancy enough to make it interesting without walking all over the vocals. When I play in my band, I do basically the same thing - except now I have keyboards, a drum machine, and two awesome female vocalists for support. Like stephent28 said, we look for all the killer vocal stuff to play, because we have excellent harmonies. We have sort of a Fleetwood Mac vibe and cover everything from Mac and Eagles to Carole King and Bonnie Raitt. Laura's a better pianist than I am a guitarist, but even at that, we both still support the vocals first. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | As a single, your vocal has to be at least good enough to keep the audience listening and entertained.
your guitar playing needs to be as good as you can make it and not overpower your vocal, unless your mouth is closed for that part.
When you're backing someone up your job is to make them look and sound great. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by nikon4004:
You can fake the guitar parts a fills, but you can;t fake the vocals. LOL... Have you not heard "Louie Louie??"
I'm just say'n... :) |
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Location: closely held secret | Careful, you're talking about Oregon boys there. Just sayin... |
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guitar vs. vocals