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October 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | A while back I wrote that I won an Ovation Standard Elite 2778AX NEB on eBay from an Ovation dealer for $338 (he specified "no returns"). I thought I might have got a deal as they usually sell for around $800. After playing it for a while I felt the intonation was a bit strange with strings 1, 2 and 3 being slightly flat at the 12th fret. So I had it checked out at an Ovation service center. And what do ya know, the bridge was askew. Hmmm, maybe some of you were correct about the quality of Korean made instruments.
So Ovation's solution was to have the old bridge removed and a slightly larger one custom made and installed correctly. That was done and yet the high E was still off. Sooooo, the saddle groove was re-cut at an angle (the original groove was parallel to the edge of the bridge), filled and then tested again. I'm told the intonation is now darn near perfect. The luthier has no idea why the intonation was still off after the new bridge and saddle were installed to factory specs. I'll be picking the guitar up on Saturday to try it out.
Anyone else here have a 2778AX that had intonation problems? I'm wondering if they are all being shipped out like this or if mine was just a dog. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Unfortunately, and irrespective of where they are made some O have the bridge sligtly off center. Especially the latest ones. |
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Location: Massachusetts | Anyhow, if anyone is interested, here is a pic of the modified bridge.
The saddle is now at an angle to the bridge. The original bridge had the saddle parallel to the edge. The re-make did as well though the luthier re-cut the saddle slot on an angle and filled the back edge. The intonation is now right on. He also mentioned that the string tracking was way the heck off. I guess quality control was on break when my 2778AX left the assembly line. I wonder if all Standard Elite AX's have the same intonation problem? |
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Location: Massachusetts | Wow, there isn't anyone else here that owns an Elite AX that is concerned over the saddle and bridge alignment??? I'm almost 99.9% sure that the factory design for these guitars is to have the saddle parallel to the bridge as that is how my original bridge was designed as well as the replacement. If that assumption is correct, that means a major design flaw. The intonation was horrible. The string tracking was horrible. On an $1150.00 list guitar that is inexcusable. Where was the quality control? It doesn't matter to me where a guitar is made though I do care about craftsmanship and whether the manufacturer cares about and takes pride in what they produce. There is an overwhelming amount of throw away junk being produced today. What a waste. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | When you say "string tracking" what do you mean? I think I know but not sure.
The out of alignment bridge and saddle are a concern. Isn't everything assembled using a very precise jig? Maybe the problem was the neck attachment not the bridge placement, but the new AX necks are not removable iirc. So the only fix would be at the bridge. |
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Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | FlySig wrote:
When you say "string tracking" what do you mean? I think I know but not sure.
If I heard the luthier correctly, that is the term he used. He used it to explain what I had noticed with the 6th string coming off the bridge at almost a 90° angle with the 1st string coming off at a larger angle converging toward the nut. This was all corrected in the repair.
The out of alignment bridge and saddle are a concern. Isn't everything assembled using a very precise jig? Maybe the problem was the neck attachment not the bridge placement, but the new AX necks are not removable iirc. So the only fix would be at the bridge.
I don't know how modern day guitars are produced. Maybe it was the angle of the neck attachment that was the problem though the luthier had no clue as to what was causing the bad intonation except the measurements were indicating the first 3 strings were too long even after installing the new bridge in the correct position. Isn't it curious that to fix the problem the saddle, which is the same saddle used in the LX model, had to be angled just like the LX model? I hope someone else with an Elite AX will check their intonation. On the original setup, after tuning the open strings, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings would be flat at the 12th fret, the 3rd being the worst. The "G" string would actually start to show flat at the 3rd and 4th fret.
BTW, the luthier told me that due to the epoxy being used in the dovetailed neck joint, the neck needs to be cut off and replaced if a neck reset is needed. Most of you probably already knew this. Actually from what I've read, dovetail joints are not a bad thing and were actually preferred to bolted-on necks though I'm guessing that a different glue was used in an all wood guitar. |
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October 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | Hello all,
I just thought I'd add another update to this story for those that might find it interesting.
A few weeks back I was getting frustrated making some chord changes near the nut, finding my 2778AX more difficult to play than my older Balladeer. I found I needed to bunch my fingers closer together to prevent them from touching adjacent strings and causing string buzz when finger picking. So I took a closer look at the spacing of the strings near the nut. On my Balladeer, the spacing between each pair of adjacent strings was 16/64 right at the nut except between the 1st and 2nd, which was just slightly less. On the 2778AX the spacing was all over the place. 15/64 between the 6th and 5th, 14/64 between the 5th and 4th (where most of my problems occurred), 16/64 between the 4th and 3rd and 16/64+ between the last two. In any case, I had a new nut cut and installed with equal spacing between all strings. Far more easier to play now. I know some musicians will have a custom nut cut to give them a certain string spacing to suit their style though I feel the stock nut cut for my 2778AX was just poor craftsmanship. Ovation took care of the repair under warranty. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | My short rant - They had done wonderful things in New Hartford when they designed the new neck system. The jigs were all tuned to measure and cut the neck and Bridge placements.
When they decided to go back thirty years and adopt the old epoxy filled Celebrity neck system I thought it was pure laziness.
The tools were in place!!! Why didn't you use them!
Anyway, I'm glad yours is working out.
There's no substitute for Craftsmanship. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Tools are in Ct not Korea |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | So move the tools to korea like they moved every thing else |
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Location: Massachusetts | Here's my guess as to what's going on. When I first learned that mid priced Ovations were being made in Korea I thought "so, what's new". Another company choosing cheaper labor to survive. I figured Ovation took their skills and knowledge and established a factory over in Korea. But it seems they just contracted the work out to a Korean guitar manufacturer that built the Ovation models their way. And their way seems to some to be a bit inferior to the way these same models were manufactured in CT.. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Ovation has been building guitars in Korea for 25 years. Unfortunately, consumers want to pay $800 for a $2500 guitar. Since Ovation/Fender can't stay in business very long using that model, something's gotta give. New guitars still have a warranty. Consumers have that leverage so they need to use it. If enough guitars have quality issues, the additional cost burden will force the manufacturer to improve their quality.
Edited by stonebobbo 2012-04-04 12:07 PM
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Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | stonebobbo - 2012-04-04 12:06 PM
Ovation has been building guitars in Korea for 25 years.
Wow, I didn't know that though for the Elite 2778, it hasn't been that long.
stonebobbo - 2012-04-04 12:06 PM
Unfortunately, consumers want to pay $800 for a $2500 guitar.
Hmmm, what was the retail price of a 2778LX when it was introduced? Was it more than the current retail price of $800 for the 2778AX?
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The continuing story of my 2778AX