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Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas | Does anyone know if any of the earlier Adamas models had both the carved haedstock and the single cutaway? Also, what are the significant (player-wise) differences between the 70's-80's models and the 90's models? |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | The Adamas model #1587 that came out in 1981 represents a cutaway Adamas, with single epaulette, carved headstock, and bridge, as well as the carved fiberglass binding (carved fiberglass ring). Deep bowl of course. ELECTRONICS: Built-in mono/stereo acoustic electric pickup and FET-preamplifier. Uses six piezoelectric transducers located directly beneath Derlin saddles. The STEREO feature is wired so that, when used with a stereo cable, the output of strings 1, 3, and 5 goes to one channel, and 2, 4, and 6 to the other. Separation of left and right channels is achieved when used with a STEREO amplifier/PA or two individual amps (use stereo Y-cable). The Adamas preamp has separate Volume and Tone Controls, both mounted at the waist of the instrument.
Lots of glitter on both the graphite top ansd the deep lyrachord bowl. Later models (late 80s) instead of the FET stereo/mono electronics had the OP-24 system with the 3 band equalizer, and after 1994 they received the OPTIMA system.
Another difference is that the very early models (1981-?) had a single epaulette, while the later Adamas 1587 received a second smaller epaulette in the cutaway site. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | how long were the carved headstocks used? wasn't there a period when adamas stopped using them and then started using them again? |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Very good point, and I think that cw2 is the best pesron to answer this question.
But I will do my best!
Now, in order to make things clear my understanding is that we refer to the carved headstock of the Adamas (or Adamas I per some people, though I do not agree with this term, the Adamas is only one, the genuine Adamas and the only Adamas ever). Thus the Adamas always had carved heastock and bridge. From the very beginning until the date they discontinued the production of the Adamas (summer of 1998) the Adamas came with carved headstock and carved bridge.
But here is the catch: In the very beginning and especially in the very first Adamas production (even pre-production!!!!) the headstock was made from real wood, the black walnut, one piece carved slotted headstock! These are the legendary slotted headstock Adamas pre-production non-tooling (hand-made) serial # 27 to serial # 60 (see the other topics about the slotted headstock Adamas!). As I mentioned these pre-production Adamas had one piece carved black walnut slotted headstock, and these Adamases represend the very best of the Adamas (the real and only Adamas) production ever!
Now I will go to the book: "The History of the Ovation Guitar" by Walter Carter, pg. 124 and quote:
<<<1976 (Sept.) Adamas introduced in prototype form for artists and select dealers. The first 26 are prototypes; #27-#61 are a non-tooling production run; #62-#76 have a new headstock design and the Kaman bar neck reinforcement. Wooden epaulettes around soundholes change to photographic Mylar material. Extensive tooling begins Sept. 1977. dealers receive first production models in Dec. 1977. First production Adamas sold is a model 1687, #0077-95. Suffix is guitar's natural frequency resonance. The first Adamas 12-srtring is 213. Charles H. Kaman signs labels up to #600. At #600 C. W. (Bill) Kaman II begins signing labels.>>>
We now know that not all of that is completely accurate. For example, the non-tooling pre-production run was from #27-#60. The list of all these slotted headstock Adamases is published by cw2 (originaly given by Al Pepiak) in another topic. The first 12-string "complete" Adamas is #33-96 and represends a magnificent instrument model 1688-7, now owned by Sam Stathakis.
Again I 'll go back to the "The History of the Ovation Guitar" by Walter Carter, pg. 81 and quote:
<<< The headstock and bridge featured ornamental carvings. "I did a really nifty carved acanthus leaf," McDonough said. "Then lo and behold, they decided they were going to make it out of expanded foam. We got a repetitive machine that would make them out of wood, but they had gotten into the Applause, and they were making everything out of high-density foam. So they decided to do away with my lovely wooden peghead. I always loved wood."
The first production Adamas guitars, #26 to #60, had the carved pegheads as well as carved neck heals, but the carving process proved too costly. The carved neck heels stopped at #60. An added-on foam piece for the peghead was developed, and it appeared around guitar #100. After several thousand units, a vendor was found who could carve walnut, and the peghead returned to wood.>>>
Comments: Once again, the one piece black walnut slotted headstock was used in Adamas #27-#60. I don't quite understand what happened to the headstock (wood or foam) between Adamases #60 and #100. They may have switched to foam from #60, or later (around #100).
The fact is that all of the older (late 70s-80s) Adamases I have owned, and seen, with the exception of my pre-production Adamas one piece wood slotted headstock, serial #0031-88, all have a glossy solid headstock that seems to me to be of high density foam, and not wood.
Way later (may be late 80s, or early 90s) they have found a vendor (I think in Germany, please correct me if I am wrong!) who could carve walnut, and the peghead returned to wood. If you see the headstock of my 1994 black Adamas cutaway (model 1587-5) you 'll realize that the headstock is made from balck walnut (may not be one piece, but the carved acanthus leaf is bound). The carved black walnut headstock in my 1587-5 Adamas is not glossy as compared to the earlier production Adamas, but dry (or satin finished). It is very beautiful!
Note #1: The origins of the acanthus leaf design go back thousands of years to ancient Greece, where the acanthus leaf was extensively used as a decoration on the Greek columns (Corinthian order columns in the 5th c. BC. It was a derivative of the Ionic order and its chief distinction is the scroll capital almost entirely covered in curled acanthus leaves. One of the best examples is Hadrian's Arch in Athens. The most ornate of the five classical orders, characterized by a slender fluted column having an ornate, bell-shaped capital decorated with acanthus leaves!).
Note #2: The word "Adamas" is a GREEK word (originally!) and means diamond in its native form -carbon, and NOT LATIN as was suggested in the "The History of the Ovation Guitar" by Walter Carter.
Thus, the Adamas guitar represends one of the finest examples of ancient greek (Hellenic) ornamentation in a modern acoustic guitar!
One would say that the Adamas was especially made for us, Greeks, and I think it is an astounding coincidence that greek guitarists and performers primarily play Adamas guitars (for example: George Dalaras, prominent Greek performer), not to mention that one of the most prominent Ovation and Adamas guitar collectors in the world is Greek: Sam Stathakis in Atlanta (samova).
It is such a pitty that the Adamas model was discontinued.....
sincerely,
Elias Argyris |
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Location: SoCal | Wow. |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | If you have any other questions, I 'll do my best to answer. Comments and corrections are welcome! I 've started to really enjoy this site!
Meantime enjoy the pics!
http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/Adamas.jpg
Elias |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Good resopnce Elias,
A point to clarify. The slotheads were carved peghead and heel, the heel was an add on piece. These necks were carved from a block and the carving was the neck piece itself. At #77 the peghead was changed and the carving piece was added on. It was made from urelite. The neck was a two piece walnut neck and no carved heel. At some point the peghead piece was switched back to carved wood but still an add on piece. This was sometime before #800 ( I was just looking at 814 and 860) but I don't remember when. I know #220 is foam. Maybe we could get input from all of youes out dere? The mylar epaulettes never got to production. They were in the #61 to 76 range. We made a couple of guitars with them but it was awful and died a quick death.
Greek and not latin? OK, I'll believe you. Sam's probably been behind this whole thing then, right?
Way to go SAM!!!!
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: cwk2 ] |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Thanks Bill,
believe me the "Adamas'' is the ancient (and modern) greek word for diamond.
Sam? Who is he? Sam is NOT a Greek name! Elias is!
he, he, he, he.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: elias ] |
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Location: NJ | ......souvlaki, anyone? |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | I told you! you are always welcome to come by!
How about some ouzo?
Got plenty of it! |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | So, The Kaman group has been using our Greek designs on their guitars huh?Well looks like Kaman owes us some back royalties!!!
BTW, my real name in Greek that i was born with is "Sarantis" and Sam was the name i chose when we came to this country in 1967..Sam is a lot easier to say than Sarantis.Saved everyone the trouble..
Elias, its funny that you write that the design is from Greek designs and the word adamas is a greek work for carbon.I have known this fact as well for a while.Here is the interesting thing though,the first time i saw an Adamas, the first impression i had was a very western ,very American designed guitar.With the leaves and carvings,my first impression was western or country looking.I actually did not like it right off..This was before i had ever picked up a guitar or before i could even play a chord..
So, the name and design may be Greek but my first impression was that it was very western american or country looking guitar..
Of course the only reason i began having interest in the Adamas' is because of George Dalaras using one in concerts all over Europe and the USA.He had that incredible sound and was using this unusuall looking guitar.For those of you who may not know who Dalaras is .He is the largest recording superstar from Greece.He is as big in Greece as Bruce Spreenstein is here.He has recorded and played with Sting,Al De miola,Paco De luthia,Peter Gabreil,Ian Anderson and many iother stars..He has been at the top for 35 years and is an incredible guitar player and has a great voice.Dalaras has used ovations since 1971 on stage and is currently playing a cobalt blue CVT during concerts..It was the first one off the line as i understand it and it was built about a year before the CVT's were sold out on the market.He tours the USA and Canada about every two years and plays the major cities(montreal,toronto,Chicago,New York,Atlantic city,Atlanta,Boston,LA ,SF).If any of you ever want to see his shows,he will be touring the USA in November i beleave..If nothing else hear the Ovations on the big stage thru a large system. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I forgot to mention this in my earlier post.I dont know why Ovation has never used Dalaras as a European endorsee..He is as big a star as there is in Greece and thruout Europe.Im very sure he is responsible for hundreds if not thousands of ovation sales in his 35 year career,just because he plays one on stage.He became a star at 18 and has played ovations since..It seems like they missed a great opportunity to get an endorsement for the oversees market..What is up with Ovation?? It seems like they miss the boat on a lot of things..Maybe im missing something here? |
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Location: NJ | elias I disagree
(or Adamas I per some people, though I do not agree with this term, the Adamas is only one, the genuine Adamas and the only Adamas ever). Thus the Adamas always had carved heastock and bridge.>
the distinction slot head adamas is for the first ones
adamas 1 non slot head
adamas 2 non carved
smt
cvt
mellissa
q
if we did not have these names we would not be able to tell what we are talking about
<<(or Adamas I per some people, though I do not agree with this term, the Adamas is only one, the genuine Adamas and the only Adamas ever)>>
I have no clue what the above means |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | O.K. Al,
this is the nomenclature I accept:
Adamas
Adamas II
Adamas III
Adamas SMT
Adamas CVT
Adamas Melissa
Adamas Lakisha
Adamas this
and
Adamas that,
the point is that Adamas is only one!
The Adamas!
The rest is %$&^^*
But again this is me... |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | geesh, you guys have been busy!!! i went to town for a few errands and didn't expect such a response to my question. the level of detailed info on this site is awesome. this board, will become the definative "bible" regarding ovations. i hope to meet you all someday to thank you in person. maybe this summer!
i'm going to reread this pos all over again. |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Did you bring any treats from down-town? Tekila? Ouzo?
No?
Come by!
elias |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I have to agree with Elias,the "Adamas" is and should be called "Adamas"..In the history of Ovation book it refers to the "Adamas" not to the Adamas one.The title of chapter 6 is Adamas ,not adamas one.In the Model chronology it refers to the Adamas and then the adamas II.. Beyond the Adamas,the designation adamas II ,III is necessary to characterize the other adamases..I think what happened is that somewhere along the way ,some have given the adamas the title "Adamas one" so to make sure poeple understand they are speaking of the carved headstock and bridge adamas...This may be where the confusion began...Also, the slot head adamas is a term we have come up with to discribe the adamas with slotted headstock.The fact is its still an "Adamas"....I think e-bay may have caused some of the confusion.Look at how many times the ad says Adamas but its really an Adamas II...Maybe Bill can settle this?? |
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Location: SoCal | Adamas II = Adamas jr. |
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Location: NJ | well whomever named the adamas II presupposed there was an Adamas I
e bay had nothing to do with it.
I still say
slotheads
adamas 1
adamas2
adamas3
etc etc etc |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | elias, you could probably find ouzo here but it would be hard. i ve got a good friend here who is greek.ive had some pretty fine meals with kosta and leslie, including a bit of ouzo. and homemade baklava. fantastic stuff!!
how far are you from the DC area? it looks like i have a wedding to go to there in july. |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Mmmmmmm! Baklava!
DC area? 3.5 hours. Not that far!
Al, what can I say, you do your best, this is what counts!
Sam, why don't you tell them that you personally know George Dalaras and that his CVT (the very first Adamas CVT) was a special gift from you!
friendly
elias |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | In the beginning there was the Adamas. When the uncarved was introduced it was the Adamas 2. After that came an Adamas 3 but it was very short lived. After that there was the SMT and I don't know what else.
So that WE understand we've come to call the first the slotheads.
I've always said Adamas 1 so people would know what I was refering to. There is no real Adamas 1, it's just the Adamas
Then the Adamas II
Then all the rest Adamas SMT, CSR, NXT, mouse |
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Location: NJ | Okay, Bill; try it again.....
....only THIS time use your best Charlton Heston voice:
"IN THE BEGINNING,........."
(Maybe we'll save that for the "Books On Tape" version of the "ADAMAS" book).
[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: cliff d. ] |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Well I think that Bill made it clear (once again, thanks Bill!):
Adamas
Adamas II
Adamas III
SMT
CVT
let me lnow if we need to go through 100 more times! |
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Location: NJ | elias
you missed slotheads so I guess you need to go over it 99 more times |
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Location: NJ | oh, jeez!......this is where I came IN!!!...... |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | For you Al, I'll go over it not only 99 times, but thousands of times.
As many times it takes for you to get it.
Slotted headstock Adamas =Adamas
Get it? |
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Location: NJ | nope better explain it to me again elias because it sure dosen;t make any sense to me the way you say it |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | i know,..I know: it's all greek to you Al!
Well,..here it comes:
slothead Adamas=Adamas
it's easy. you see? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | In Ze Beginink....
zer vere ze slotheads
zen ze non slotheads
zen ze slot head vannabees
und ze flat heads
und ze flatheads bigby removed
und all ze rest |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Hey Bill, please !
No personal attacks here, OK.?
Al said so. |
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Location: NJ | "....skating away,..on the thin ice......." |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Hey Mr. C.D. you mind your own business O.K?
he, he, he, he, |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | What personal attack?????? |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | That I am asking too! |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | if you loosen the strings on an ovation and put your arm through they make a good shield---- might come in handy someday. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Funny story, in 68 or 69 I was given the job of disposing of several scrap units. So we took them to the dump next to the factory and played baseball with the guitars. Used rocks for the ball. If you hit it in the middle of the back the rocks really fly! After a couple of innings they were all demolisheed and we went back to work. The super said "What took you so long?" |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i guess the strike zone was from ankles to eyebrows with bats that big!
i'm fried!! i decided to stay till monday to avoid the cinco de mayo worm races on the highways. glad i didn't take down the hammock yet. |
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Location: SoCal | Russ:
Call me when you get to my area. We'll at least get a burger and beer for lunch. I gotta meet the man who posts such great messages. I suspect that I could learn something about relaxing from such a master.
Paul |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | gracias pablito,
as you can see by the time of this post, i'm not into time. stopped doing the watch thing except when i go fishing. the time i spend on this site is very informative and allot of fun. ovation guys (and gals) are cut from a different cloth (carbon fiber maybe). it's a new experience to feel so at home with people i have never met face to face.
so unless my half million mile ford diesel forgets it's green card, we have a burger and beer lunch coming up. it's on me. |
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Location: Lincoln, NE | I am new here... and have a question.
I own a 1587-7 Adamas - Serial Number 3780-92. (acquired through special circumstances direct from Kaman/Ovation in '83)
Can anyone tell me what the "-92" means?
You can see a photo of me playing the guitar at www.wheezetones.com
Paul |
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Location: SoCal | Another Paul. Damn. Oh well.
Great website you have. And great guitars. You guys obviously like Ovations. Our kind of people.
That two digit number is the frequency at which the top vibrates. All Adamii (the original type) have that number as part of their own personal serial number.
You've got me curious. What are the "special circumstances" around the aquisition of your Adamas? |
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Location: Lincoln, NE | Back in the early 80s I worked for a music store that sold Ovation guitars. I purchased what WE called an Adamas II from them at an employee discount.
Well around the same time there was some problems with some delamination of the graphite top on some Adamas guitars. Mine had the problem.... MULTIPLE times. It went back to the factory more than a couple times. I got frustrated and wrote Kaman a letter asking for help. I remember saying something like "How can I confidently sell your guitars when you can't even seem to fix mine."
Well a couple days later I get a call from the big man - Bill - and he wanted to "chat". We had a very nice conversation and he asked what he could do to win my trust and rekindle my confidence in Ovation and the company behind it.
We arrived on the idea that he would send me an Adamas I (that's what HE called it!). I asked if I could have that be a cutaway... and he said yes.
Obviously this was a unique situation... and I can't say that Ovation is going to replace everyone's guitar... but for me they came through big.
by the way.... in 1996 (or was it later) I had the new electronics with built in tuner put in the guitar. You can't even tell where the old stuff existed. These guys are GOOD!
I also have a '96 Custom Legend 12-string (black). It's a beauty! (just wish it would have been available in a cutaway) |
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Location: NJ | Paul(3?);
Yeah, I agree; GREAT website!!
Mind if I ask who did it?
(this is something like what I'm looking for for my band).
Nice guitars as well!
You'll fit in nicely here, - Welcome!!!! |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Your 1587-7 is a beauty.
I always liked the beige on the Adamas. The brown too. Maybe because they are closer to the natural color of the wood. |
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Location: Lincoln, NE | Cliff (and all)
I did the web page for my band. I own a 2-person graphic design firm in Lincoln, Nebraska. Web sites are part of what we do.
www.wheezetones.com was my initial attempt at a site using Flash 5. My employee is quite good at it... and is instructing "the boss"
we are about to launch a new site for our business which is driven by Flash 5 also.
current site: www.slidearts.com
new site coming soon:
www.slidearts.com/new_slidearts |
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Location: NJ | Well it looks GREAT!!
I've been a graphic designer prety much all of my adult(?) life. For the past ten years I've been designing trade shows, conventions, and exhibits using AutoCAD, 3DStudio, and a plethora of graphics packages. I've been wanting to learn web design for some time now, but've been somewhat "apprehensive".
- You've just inspired me to get out there and learn Flash. THANKS!!!
Oh, by the way . . . youse guys (I'm from "Jersey") have some really nice guitars!!!
(just trying to make a valiant attempt at getting this thing BACK on it's designated "track").
I liked the story behind your Adamas.
I have a similar story behind my Balladeer where Ovation "rose to the call" and went the extra mile.
Not too many companys'll do that any more. |
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Location: California | Good info about the Adamas.
---------
Sorry that this came out as a current thread.
Edited by hwebster 2012-07-03 5:24 PM
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Location: Flahdaw | It looks like the Wheezetones don't use Ovations anymore.... |
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Adamas Primer