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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | I tried buying this guitar with the Buy It Now feature this morning (about ten-fifteen times). For whatever reason Paypal was down and would not complete the transaction (as it required immediate payment). Anyway, I contacted the seller and explained the situation to her... she responded that she couldn't tell if there were any bids or buy it now actions... So she would know that I wanted the guitar, I told her that I would bid the entire $625.00 amount and asked that she close the auction and sell it for her but-it-now price of $625.00.
Like a dummy, I went ahead and bid the amount. I re-emailed the owner explaining what I did, and asked if we could close the auction. She wrote back explaining that unfortunately, she was BOUND to let the auction continue as an "ethical" seller, and that I would have to wait until the end of auction to see if I win. She said "by the way" that she has received much interest through the auction, and offers to buy the guitar OUTSIDE of ebay (ethical?!).
What a joke...so she can use my bid to drive the price up, knowing that the worst she can do is take ol Norseman's Buy It Now bid price. I can pull my bid, but doesn't that affect your ebay bidding status?!
Waskel is one of the other people interested...John, be careful.
It's frustrating because if Paypal was up and running earlier today, I would own this guitar without any hassle. Now I feel I'm being taken advantage of due to my lack of ebay saavy, and genuine honesty.
Perhaps there is a reason for this...but DANG it's frustrasting!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320004869291 |
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Location: Orange County, California | Norsey,
Cancel your bid and see if the BIN comes back. |
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Location: SoCal | My experience with the seller - good disclosure, no games. I don't believe there is any problem with the auction.
Reason I contacted the seller (Vicki) was to see if she would accept the $625; if so, then ship it to you. Hopefully, you will get it at your bid.
This is the problem when a seller has a BIN but no reserve...first bid, BIN gone. |
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Location: closely held secret | It does seem a bit tacky to offer a BIN, then when (through no fault of the buyer) it doesn't work, retract it.
Scott, if you can get it, it's yours. You would have had it had the BIN been working. I'll just have to wait my turn. I need to find my Viper, anyway... |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | well, I tried retracting the bid, and I cannot under the rules (unless I "unethically" said I bid the wrong price).
I have been on this computer all day over this thing and I'm sick of it. I believe she is holding back now, due to the interest you guys (and potentially others) have given.
So, if no one does bid in four days of waiting, she knows she can simply bid $625.00 herself and kick it up another $50.00. I guess it's a little like having your cake and eating it too.
She can keep the d*mn thing...and if you guys want it take it...whatever...I guess I don't need it THAT bad! Someone PLEEEEZE bid $626.00 and be happy with the thing. YUK!
I'm out of here. |
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Location: closely held secret | No sweat, Norsey. If it's still below $625 in 4 days, I'll take it off your hands.
What are friends for? |
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Location: SoCal | The Seller can close the auction and sell to their highest bidder.
A Buyer is allowed to ask the Seller for a buy-it-now price.
Just cancel your bid. You have your communication with the Seller to back you up. You did bid the wrong price... you were going for the buy-it-now! |
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| I don't imagine it would do any good to complain to ebay, seems like they always want it both ways..they make their rules to be 'seller-friendly'. I was high-bidder on an auction until the last day, then the seller cancelled the auction and relisted it at a higher price, and told me to take a hike if I didn't like it. Then I bit the bullet and bid on the second auction and once again became the high-bidder, then the seller copped an attitude and cancelled my bids all over again...seems like ebay has to draw the line somewhere...it's extremely unreasonable to allow their sellers to 'bait and switch' on a regular basis. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I have also dealt with the seller...always up front and tries to do the right thing.
Norsey, just cancel your bids and don't lose any sleep over it. Then when the BIN comes back, place the BIN and take it home.
If the BIN doesn't come back, then wait it out and let it run its course.
The quicker you cancel, the more legit it will be. Wait too long and then it will look bad. For a reason, just state you thought you were doing the BIN and accidently screwed up. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | If she is trying to do the right thing...what is she doing to me?!
Obviously I want the guitar (even though my ranting out of frustration earlier says differently). I just don't see how it is unethical for her to stop the auction and sell me the guitar through ebay as the high bidder...heck, I'm the only bidder?!
According to rules, I cannot retract my bid anyway.
Somehow I'm left with the impression that "money" may have to do more with this situation than "ethics"...your past dealings with Vicki not withstanding. |
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Location: closely held secret | Norsey, if she doesn't end it now and give it to you for your current bid (the BIN!), it's not about ethics. Sorry this is taking such a toll on you - remember, I offered to relieve you of this burden... |
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Location: SoCal | "I have also dealt with the seller...always up front and tries to do the right thing."
That's been my take on the Seller too.
The first time the auction was up, there was no bidding war and Norseman stayed ahead of the pack. Relisting with a $625 BIN and Norseman immediately trying to meet it, probably gave the Seller thoughts that a higher amount could be had. Maybe someone will come along and throw a few more dollars on the table, but in the long run, I see it as a shameful day for vickiandsheri.
The Seller obviously was reading the two threads about their auction... check out the Bidder that bumped Norseman up to $625 also assuring that even if he did retract his bid, the BIN would not be exposed. |
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Location: Waxahachie, Tx | She obviously understood what you were trying to do in the first communication, She realized she can get more than 625.00. I say retract your bid because she did not complete her verbal agreement with you. Done. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | o.k.,I can't find the bid retraction section on ebay...anyone help with this? I had it earlier, but now I cannot find it.
Funny, I emailed Vicki that it was suggested to me that I retract my bid for the BIN...it was in a matter of seconds/minutes before suddenly the second bid occurred.
I've had enough and want out. |
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Location: SoCal | looks like your bid was withdrawn and since we know the other bid was $625...I bid $626.
If I win, man from the North will have the option of getting it :)
Personally, I don't think the seller is doing anything unethical. Tried to find out the procedure for a single bid (at the time he wanted to rescind the bid), with a BIN and no reserve, and the single bidder wants the BIN restored. I think she is right, only other option would have been to cancel the auction and relist. |
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Location: SoCal | I don't understand...never saw a reserve on this guitar; thought that is why the BIN disappeared.
Now with my bid, it says the reserve price has been met. :confused: :confused: :confused: |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | O.K.,
I found the retract bid option... did so, and also sent a note to customer service.
I know it's a great deal, but I would hate to see another OFC'er bail her out, as it's pretty obvious to me what she was doing.
Anyway, to bad (for me anyway)...looks like a great guitar. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | o.k.
Didn't know you were bidding Tony, I wouldn't have had to retract my bid. By the way, the superglue remover worked great! I thought I'd try the "Duro" brand that I could get local, and it is working very well...I am taking a little at a time, as I don't want to actually take out the glue that is holding the crack shut (just the slop around it).
Peace |
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Location: SoCal | but then I would have had to bid $635 since it goes in increments of $10.
if it goes for my bid of $626, it is a super deal...and, will be up for adoption - Norseman 1st, Waskel 2nd; no one wants it, then I'll keep it. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | I just got a nasty email from Vicki, thanking me for retracting my bid, and playing off something I said that this whole transaction went from something exciting to becoming a real nightmare. She also said I made several accusational and inappropriate emails to her... I think it is all posturing, as I did send an email to customer service. Funny how things can get twisted and distorted...oh and my email is blocked, and I am no longer welcome to bid on anything she sells in the future.
What a crock!
If you win Tony...best of luck with it...I'm afraid it may have somekinda voodoo hex on it anyway...funny on how everything was honky-dory until I retracted my bid...then the fangs came out.
Glad I missed out on this "deal". |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | ...by the way, I'm pretty sure she comes to the OFC board and checks it out... I mentioned that I knew of a few ovation fans that might be interested as well...man, it's a good thing I don't play poker...I'd go home broke and naked everytime! Nice to be honest and upfront...and get lubed for doing so!
That's one of the great things about this board...people who are real, say what they mean...and mean what they say! I somehow tried to transfer that same logic to cyberspace in general...and grew a little wiser on "the bay".
Norse(you learn something new everyday...sometimes things you knew and forgot!)man1 |
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Location: SoCal | Tony, I would have let Norseman retract his bid and let that other Bidder sit there with it. Looking at that other bidder's purchases, I wonder why they would be bidding on a 1537. |
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Location: SoCal | Bruce, true-better to snipe at the end...other bidder was at $625. However, this way I could make a statement with one dollar extra.
Initially, I wrote the seller whether there was any way to work this out so that Norseman would get it at $625. As I mentioned earlier, my dealings with her have always been excellent...a good eBay'er to work with. After doing some reading, only way that I could see it happen would have been for seller to make a false reason and close the auction, then relist. The seller is a good one and she has the right to follow the rules. This got screwed up by the eBay problems - screwed up even more once there was more than one bid. Unfortunately, we don't have control over the monster that eBay has become.
Bruce, as we know, it is not uncommon for a seller to cancel an auction but it isn't the right thing to do. I have been in a number of auctions where someone bid and wiped out the BIN.
I understand Norseman's frustration - I have been unable to place a bid on a guitar I really wanted due to eBay's problem. If it stays low, adoption is a possibility, higher - I will drop out or keep it.
Not sure why there are several 1537's selling for less than they are worth. This one is well worth a decent bid.
We'll just have to see what happens. I have no problem working with this seller now or in the future. |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | 1-800-717-ebay |
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Location: SoCal | The following is from eBay's rules: "It is acceptable for sellers to end a listing early in order to sell an item at the current bid price to the high bidder. Bidders are permitted to contact sellers with requests to end a listing early;"
If eBay Rules sanction the solution to Norseman's unsavory experience yesterday morning, how can the Seller claim that it would have been unethical? Norseman was their only bidder at the time... then that other bidder jumped in after some of us suggested to retract the bid and recapture the BIN :rolleyes:
Numerous guitar and amp auctions have "ethically" gone my way when the seller decided to end-it-early and sell to their highest bidder :D
It really gets me when a person uses "ethics and some of the rules" to justify one agenda, but has "justified" ignoring the rules at other times to achieve a different agenda (i.e., selling a guitar out of eBay after their reserve was not met).
As far as the low selling prices, summer usually is a buyer's market. |
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Location: Houston, Texas | I'm with Norseman on this. Why would anyone place a bid at the BIN price unless the BIN wasn't working. The fact that he made the bid signified his seriousness and his willingness to be bound to pay for it. She should have ended early and sold it to him instead of taking advantage of the situation for a couple more bucks. |
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Location: Houston, Texas | Besides, after experiencing the stereo output of these guitars, I really think the OP-40 is a downgrade. Norse, you will find a better one than this, be patient. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | Thanks for the support/encouragement Noah, Rick, and others...I appreciate it. And I understand you wanting to take the high road Tony, and appreciate that to (and thanks for the offer of first refusal...I refuse :) ). All I know is it is a sunny beautiful day here in Brainerd, Minnesota and I wasted one of those yesterday over this issue. One day is enough...it's behind me, and I'm heading outside to enjoy a little Minnesota paradise while I can (winter is always right around the corner here in the northland).
Peace to all, and have a GREAT day! |
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| ...As it has been said before regarding ebay, "Buyer Beware!". They are PRO-seller and PRO-ebay, they 'bait and switch' and want to have it both ways. The end result, Ebay is only as honest as their worst seller. |
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Location: Houston, Texas | Originally posted by noah:
Tony, I would have let Norseman retract his bid and let that other Bidder sit there with it. Looking at that other bidder's purchases, I wonder why they would be bidding on a 1537. The interesting thing is that the other bidder, healingj, is in North Port, FL and the seller, vickiandsheri is in Port Charlotte, Fl.
They are within 10 miles of each other on the west coast of FL, and they both seem to be into buying and selling holistic health type items.
IMHO, this looks like collusion. I wouldn't buy anything from either one. Whether this is reportable to ebay or not, i don't know. |
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Location: Houston, Texas | And here's the proof that these two know each other.
From one of healingj's ebay items for sale:
Display board for Healing Journeys
And from the Healing Journey's website:
Pictures of Vicki and Sherri |
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Location: SoCal | I just sent this to the seller:
Vicki, Joyful Noise (an OFC'er) posted two links that have bearing on this auction as healingj is the other bidder at $625 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Show-N-Rise-10-ft-Curved-Floor-Display-w-Light- and http://healingjourneys.biz/servies.htm which shows that Vicki Wilkes & Sheri Crane are listed as owners of Healing Journeys. Is this a shill bid? If so, I recommend rescinding healingj's bid, or my bid, or cancel the auction. If I receive a 2nd offer through eBay for $575, I will seriously consider. If this is merely a coincidence, please explain. |
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Location: Scotland | Tony, I think the course of action here is to report this to ebay as suspected shill bidding and let ebay sort it out according to their policies. I don't think this board is the place to publish this kind of email correspondance between buyers and sellers. |
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Location: SoCal | my complaint to eBay:
Customer concern: my correspondence to seller:
Vicki, Joyful Noise (an OFC'er) posted two links that have bearing on this auction as healingj is the other bidder at $625 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Show-N-Rise-10-ft-Curved-Floor-Display-w-Light- and http://healingjourneys.biz/servies.htm which shows that Vicki Wilkes & Sheri Crane are listed as owners of Healing Journeys. Is this a shill bid? If so, I recommend rescinding healingj's bid, or my bid, or cancel the auction. If I receive a 2nd offer through eBay for $575, I will seriously consider. If this is merely a coincidence, please explain.
If you follow the above links - appears to show seller of item is owner of Healing Journeys while bidder that drove the $575 minimum bid to $625 is selling an item purported by the seller as property of his/her company - thus, the business owned by vickiandsheri. It is my belief that this is a shill bid resulting in my bid of $626. I seek rescind of healingj's bid and entering my at $575; or rescind my bid in totality. |
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Location: Scotland | I agree completely, but I would respectfuly suggest once again, that this is not the place to air this particular dirty laundry. |
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Location: Orange County, California | You Don't want to know what I wrote? These People (who I dont know), are screwing over a friend of mine. If Tony's letter can somehow turn things around (he does have prior positive dealings with them), then I think this is as good a place as any to work it out. I just want to see Norsey get his 1537. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | They "pulled" the listing. Guess the "heat" got them. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I agree that this thread bordered on the "dirty laundry" side...but it was a good lesson in the ways of ebay. |
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Location: Waxahachie, Tx | It's a shame, tsk,tsk,tsk, to think 2 days ago they could of had $625.00 in their pockets and their good reputation intact. I guess that's the Holistic approach. I wonder if Kenneth Lay was a Holistic advocate? Hm-mm.
Can't wait for the guitar to resurface this will be interesting. :D |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I will say this once... you have email accounts... use them.
- This next item falls under our main rule of "Be kind to each other." A LOT of people read this board. We average 3 new members EACH DAY. They are from every country you can think of, and several at least I have never even heard of. They are from all walks, including the folks at the Ovation factory. So lets watch what we say to each other, and watch what we say about people we "think" are not here. People we "think" are not here might be the ones selling a guitar on eBay. Maybe it's not YOUR cup'o-java, but they are selling something. Don't assume they know as much as you do and they are "trying to pull a fast one." Frankly, it's none of your damn business in the first place, but the Ovation Fan Club is not the Ovation eBay Police department. If for one minute you think I haven't received emails from eBay sellers asking why someone didn't just contact them to correct a discrepancy on an instrument they knew nothing about, instead of slamming them on here... you are mistaken. No problem chatting about eBay items, nothing wrong with maybe questioning an ad, as long as it's not turned into a flaming contest against someone who may very well be reading every word. The same goes for the price police. If you think an item is priced too high, let it go and move on. The buying public will determine the value and I am sure all of us have seen some ebay craziness in both high and low directions on pricing. |
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Location: SoCal | Miles and Al, you have email.
I disagree in this case. As I defended the seller's past actions, it was important that I provide follow-up as to the results. Whether eBay takes action, she did cancel the auction. She was aware of the other bid that pushed it from $575 to $626 and didn't rescind it in a timely basis.
Part of an email I rec'd from her today after I challenged her concerning what was found:
We have several items listed on eBay for the business that we have been having an employee manage for us. When she overheard me talking about the problems I was having with loyalnorseman on the guitar, she took it upon herself to use the company account to bid on it.
Granted, this is not a forum for rants...since eBay is the # 1 source for older Adamas and Ovations, it is "on topic". There are excellent sellers out there, many on the OFC. However, you have to be careful. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | No further comment is necessary on this topic, it has been closed. |
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Bidder Beware!