|
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | I'm considering a Koa O I found on Craigslist (CSE34), and after some searching here, I'm worried about the tonal qualities.
Is Koa really "duller" sounding than spruce? And does it "open up" with age?
I'm just loving the Koa look but I don't want to have a dull sounding guitar.
Also, I believe the CSE34 would be a laminate figured Koa? True? How much worse is that than a solid top?
Help me, enlightened ones! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Some laminate guitars sound pretty good. Just not as good, imo, as a solid top, all things being equal. I've had laminate spruce tops that were just fine ... so go try it, if it looks nice, the price is right and sounds good, who cares.
I don't think a laminate will open up ...
And koa is like a mahogany |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Talk to Al. He has a few special "KOA" guitars left and everybody who owns one has RAVED about how good they sound.
They will cost a bit more than a celebrity but would be well worth it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Ah, so did what I read about Koa's sound apply to solid top Koa's and not laminates? If so, that actually makes me feel a bit better about the laminate.
If it looks even better in person than it does in the pictures, I'm afraid the beauty of it is going to bias my ear when I hear it. :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by stephent28:
Talk to Al. He has a few special "KOA" guitars left and everybody who owns one has RAVED about how good they sound.
They will cost a bit more than a celebrity but would be well worth it. I can only spend $400, maybe a bit more. I have a feeling Al's stuff will be out of my reach. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 396
| My local guitar center had 2 of the cheaper Korean koas several months back(not the American made editions with the cool sound hole that Al has). Both were absolutely gorgeous but sounded flat and lifeless. I played 6 or 7 O's that day and the 2 Koas were easily the worst sounding. Doesn't mean they all are bad, but the koa models were 0 for 2 that day. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by Englishplayer:
My local guitar center had 2 of the cheaper Korean koas several months back(not the American made editions with the cool sound hole that Al has). Both were absolutely gorgeous but sounded flat and lifeless. I played 6 or 7 O's that day and the 2 Koas were easily the worst sounding. Doesn't mean they all are bad, but the koa models were 0 for 2 that day. Interesting. If you can recall, were they the CSE34, CK047, or CS347? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Bay Area, N, California | I have purchased a KOA Celebrity and I am blown away at the tone it produces. I love the crisp highs and pronounced mids. The bottom tone is surprisingly rich. The figured KOA is absolutely gorgeous.
I would go for it. You won't be disappointed.
LM |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Hmmm...I got discouraged by Englishplayer but then encouraged by Laura Marie!
What to do, what to do...
:) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Bay Area, N, California | The difference may be that mine is a center round hole model. The CSEs probably have a different tone altogether. YMMV :)
LM |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Laura, what is the model number on yours? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Koa is a tricky one. I've heard some fantastic koa topped guitars and I've heard some aweful ones. The laminated stuff is crap. Buy solid. That said, even solid koa tops are hit and miss. You really need to play it for yourself and not just buy blindly from some online shop because it looks pretty (which it does). The Lost Art Koa 12- and 14-fretters are at/near the top of the heap as far as great sounding koa topped guitars. But personally I like koa better for the back and sides matched to a nice spruce top. But to each his/her own. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | WhatDaveSaid. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Cliff said it best! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Ok, you've at least talked me out of buying one blind (or deaf as the case may be).
Al doesn't list the prices for the Koa's on his site and you know what they say ("if you have to ask the price..."), so I don't think that's gonna happen.
So is there a good website that breaks down the Ovation lineup in terms of things like solid top vs. laminate, U.S. vs. Korea, etc? There's so many models on Ovations site it's tough to keep straight. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by scooterboy:
Al doesn't list the prices for the Koa's on his site ... I think there is some regulation about it, whatever. Just contact him.
alpep@lostartvintage.com
Originally posted by scooterboy:
So is there a good website that breaks down the Ovation lineup ... Yup. www.ovationfanclub.com Ask away ...
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by scooterboy:
Ok, you've at least talked me out of buying one blind I think that would be wise.
Unless it was one of Al's specials. Those are well... special. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Bay Area, N, California | Originally posted by stephent28:
Laura, what is the model number on yours? I have the Ck047 model. I got a good price on it new for 425.00. I guess I may not be as picky as some here, but I love the sound of the guitar.
LM |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
That said, even solid koa tops are hit and miss. You really need to play it for yourself and not just buy blindly from some online shop because it looks pretty (which it does). The Lost Art Koa 12- and 14-fretters are at/near the top of the heap as far as great sounding koa topped guitars. Speaking as an owner of a 12 fret Lost Art koa, I really agree with the "try it first" approach.
My guitar has a very unique sound. I would describe it as "dark". If you are into a super lightly-built fingerstyle 000 shaped guitar that has monster overtones and rings like a bell, koa is not for you. But for what I like the tone is perfect...very clean and direct, with a top you just can't overdrive no matter how hard you try. The response is very even, with perhaps a little bias toward the bottom end (largely thanks to the large volume of the contour back).
And lets not kid ourselves: Looks matter! The koa looks killer, the slothead is awesome, and the offset soundhole looks really cool. I get compliments all the time.
And the electronics are beautiful. The more I use it, the more I'm in love with the VIP preamp. Its perfect. I can dial up the "Image" slider and get an absolutely faithful pure acoustic tone. Or I can dial it down and get a little edgier piezo tone that cuts through the band mix. Perfect. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Well I'm going to keep my eyes open for a local Koa that I can try out (even if it is a laminate), and hopefully I'll find a sound that I like.
I actually played a CK047 Koa today (and it sounded good to me, Laura :) ), but I really like the look of the smaller sound holes instead of a center sound hole.
I'm sure the Lost Art guitars are awesome, but I'm also sure they're out of my budget.
I asked Woody to keep an eye open for one as well. If he comes across one that he thinks has a good sound, then I trust his judgment.
Thanks to all for the advice. :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | IMHO, it would be of more value to learn about what goes into a laminated top rather than trying to figure out how 1/64" of Koa sounds. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by bauerhillboy:
IMHO, it would be of more value to learn about what goes into a laminated top rather than trying to figure out how 1/64" of Koa sounds. Good point, and one I had already wondered about. I laminate Koa really shouldn't sound much different than a laminate with anything else on it, right? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 396
| Originally posted by scooterboy:
Originally posted by Englishplayer:
My local guitar center had 2 of the cheaper Korean koas several months back(not the American made editions with the cool sound hole that Al has). Both were absolutely gorgeous but sounded flat and lifeless. I played 6 or 7 O's that day and the 2 Koas were easily the worst sounding. Doesn't mean they all are bad, but the koa models were 0 for 2 that day. Interesting. If you can recall, were they the CSE34, CK047, or CS347? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | That's true to a point. Some laminated tops are better than others. Seagull, for instance, uses 3 ply cherry for tops. It's all good wood to start, and the "plywood" is well-made. If you look at an Indiana guitar, or the famed Esteban guitar, the plys are made of junk wood.
I don't know where the Celebrity tops stand by comparison...probably somewhere in the middle of the quality scale. It all depends what pricepoint the company is interested in hitting. But if you place 2 Celebrity's side-by-side which are identical in every other respect, I doubt the one with the Koa is gonna sound any different than spruce or quilted maple or anything else.
John <>{ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Laminate Tops... I had a CC44 that was very nice. My Takamine G330 is cool. And I had a Johnson 620 that was Awesome (don't gag) for a $33 Guitar!
But! At one point I had a GC057 (plywood) and a 4861 (solid wood).
Both were Super Shallow Bowls and side-by-side the 4861 was much fuller.
But! The GC057 was still a very Nice sounding guitar.
I got rid of it cuz the gloss black shows every pick-track, fingerprint, speck of dust, etc...
But you could use it as a mirror!
Also, as John said, the Koa laminate may Look Awesome.
But as a laminate it may not sound any better or worse than another laminate.
BTW- My Ruby-Red-Burst-Flame-Maple looks Great.
That may not affect the sound...
But I feel cooler playing it! (For Sale) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by bauerhillboy:
That's true to a point. Some laminated tops are better than others. Seagull, for instance, uses 3 ply cherry for tops. It's all good wood to start, and the "plywood" is well-made. If you look at an Indiana guitar, or the famed Esteban guitar, the plys are made of junk wood. That makes sense. But if we stay within the realm of Ovation laminates only, whatever wood makes up the outside surface probably isn't going to affect the sound that much, correct? It will either be a good sounding laminate or a bad sounding laminate, for reasons other than the species of wood on the surface.
So the ratio of good/bad Koa laminates shouldn't be any different than the ratio of good/bad spruce laminates for instance. The challenge will to find one of the good ones. :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Every guitar is like a snowflake ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | . . avoid the yellow ones. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE |  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Rocheter, MN | In my (admittedly limited) experience, lams can sometimes be *better* than solid tops if you're going through an amp. You get weird harmonics when you have a loud soundboard along with your amplified sound; a lam top tends not to project as much, which is actually better in an amplified setting. For pure acoustic sound, though, solid tops are definitely the way to go.
I know there are lots of partisans in terms of tonewoods. Some won't go with anything but spruce (and some even want a specific *kind* of spruce), while others prefer other stuff like cedar or even mahogany. Many players prefer graphite tops to wooden tops.
However, I've discovered that while many players will obsess over which top is best suited to their style of playing, they don't pay enough attention to the *strings*! Bad strings make even a good guitar sound lousy, and my first advice to people playing guitars in stores is to make sure that the strings have been replaced recently. (GuitarCenter guitars are notorious for having dead strings, which many people interpret as a bad instrument.) A good set of D'Addarios or Black Diamonds can make all the difference in the world to the sound you get out of your guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Very informative, mrmanley - thanks! |
|
| |
School me about Koa...