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Posts: 8
Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | Over the weekend I bought my first Ovation electric - an "E" serial number Deacon. It's in good used condition.
The entire electronics package is long gone and has been replaced with no-name parts. I am in need of pickups, FET pre-amp, POTS and knobs.
I would like this guitar to be father-and-son restoration project with the goal of building a nice "player" guitar. I don't intend to worry about the few bumps on the body.
Is there a NOS dealer out there or a company making authentic looking and performing pick-ups?
Any advice and assistance one could provide would be greatly appreciated.
joelrasmus@hotmail.com |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Hang on, for there will be some great info heading your way. The folk here will do their best to get you on the right 'road'. And we especially love the dad/offspring projects!
 to the OFC... |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Send me an eMail mileskb @ aol.com and I'll see what we can do to get you going.
Also, are you SURE it is a Deacon or Breadwinner? The difference is that the Deacon is "stained" and the Breadwinner "painted" with a textured paint usually (white, black, blue, tan). Also the Breadwinner used large single coil pickups, where are the Deacon's used mini Humbuckers.
I don't have any of the smaller humbuckers, but I probably have everything else. |
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Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | Thanks, guys.
Miles -- you've got mail.
Here's a better description -- The stain (not painted) finish is similar to a dark tobacco sunburst (?) and the neck is fully bound. It also has the "scallop" at the bottom of the neck. The jack is located in the pick guard.
It currently has a couple of full size, uncovered, white bobbin humbuckers in it. I can see some of the original (?) pickup mounting screw holes. The current neck pickup surround extends beyond the 2-ply (black w/ white edge) pickguard.
Joel |
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Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | I have two of the small humbuckers, but both of them are spaced for the bridge position. When one is used at the neck, the pole pieces don't quite line up. Maybe someone here has a neck pickup.
I had both pickups in my Viper. I always thought that the misalignment at the neck was because the Viper string spacing was different than the Deacon's. It only took me about 15 years to figure out that that I had gotten two bridge pickups from the factory.
If you want to start with something inexpensive, I have a set of generic chrome mini-humbuckers I don't need.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | If the spacing is the only difference, is it that big a deal? They both use the same wire guage and the same number of turns. The difference in the spacing between the two is not that significant. |
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Location: NW Washington State | It seemed to me that the output fell of a bit on the strings that weren't exactly lined up with the pole pieces. Can't quite remember it now- maybe I just convinced myself it was a problem. They do work OK and look like they should.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 8
Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | Okay, Here are photos. Any (additional) information and advice is greatly appreciated.
Do the tone and volume knobs look correct? I purchased them from a local guitar store because I thought they looked the the originals I saw in photos. Can anyone tell me if there was anything specific about Ovation knobs?
The FET is missing so the toggle switch does nothing.
The p/u toggle is a 3-position switch...but I don't believe it is original based on the white switch knob.
Upon close inspection you can see that there are exposed p/u mounting holes that are partially covered by the non-stock p/u rings/surrounds.
thanks (again) )to everyone for their help!
MM |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Welcome to the club!
One of the best ways to obtain the electronics for a Deacon or Breadwinner is to pick up a Preacher Deluxe and exchange the parts.
Mile's is good for the stock pickguards and such but the pickups are getting more difficult to locate.
There are a lot of non-stock options out there with the "mini" sized pickups:
Seymour Duncan
TV Jones
Artec
Bill Lawrence
To name a few. There are more compact solid state options for active preamps and mid boosts as well.
Stock gives you a good project to shoot for though.
Enjoy! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Oh,
For knobs and toggles take a look at the websites in my signature: |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | They can contact me for pickups, knobs, switches, pre-amps, tuners, necks, bridges... I'm running low on bodies tho... :(
-mkb |
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Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | MWood,
thanks for the advice on the Preacher Deluxe.
Can anyone tell me if any of the Ovation electrics from the early- to mid-70s would have the right pickups for my Deacon (i.e. viper or preacher)?
I know that these guitars do not have the preamp. |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "Can anyone tell me if any of the Ovation electrics from the early- to mid-70s would have the right pickups for my Deacon (i.e. viper or preacher)?"
Not sure what you are asking.
All of the pre-amps were "essentially" the same with some minor revisions. The Early Breadwinners and Deacons had Single Coil pickups, and later the Deacons went to humbuckers. Those humbuckers are the same used in the Preacher, Preacher Deluxe.
The Viper had single coil pickups, same size as the humbuckers, and it would be interesting to try them with the pre-amp. I guess they would work, just haven't tried it.
The UK-II pickups are humbuckers, and again the same size as the Viper, Preacher and Deacon humbuckers.
Clear as mud huh ? |
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Posts: 8
Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | Thanks, Miles. My questions was a bit "muddy" buy your answer was spot on. [also, you've got mail]
Okay...my Deacon's serial number is E 52XX which, per Ovation's web site, means it was built between Jan '73 and Feb '75. Which could make it an "early" Deacon (I think)
However; it DOES have the toggle switch for the preamp as well as the sponge padding in the back cavity for the 9v battery(s). SO, this indicates that it was a guitar outfitted with the mini-humbuckers from the factory (assuming preamps were not used on single coil outfitted guitars). Again; am I correct in my assumptions?
So, I could get humbuckers off another Deacon (except early, single-coil, versions), Preacher or Preacher Deluxe. But NOT off of a Breadwinner or Viper (which were single-coil only equipped). |
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Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Preamps were used on all Deacons and Breadwinners (Single coil or Humbucker) other than the few Breadwinners that were specifically made for the Partridge Family with passive electronics (about 10 according to Beal).
Single coil
Humbucker
Miles, correct me if I am wrong
AJ |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Returning to stock is a good thing, but if you ever decide to take a walk on the Custom side...
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Woody,
Those are beauts! You do some awesome work.
BTW, your feline could be my Slush's twin. Slush went to Rainbow Bridge early last year after thirteen years and eight lives. |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "However; it DOES have the toggle switch for the preamp as well as the sponge padding in the back cavity for the 9v battery(s). SO, this indicates that it was a guitar outfitted with the mini-humbuckers from the factory (assuming preamps were not used on single coil outfitted guitars). Again; am I correct in my assumptions?"
The Breadwinners and Deacons all had pre-amps, cept the ones that someone took them out, and possibly a couple near the end. The originals, with the single coils, came out with a pre-amp. That was kindof their thing. They also originally had nylon saddles on the bridge. |
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Posts: 8
Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | THANKS to everyone for the education (and for the patients with me)!
Okay...so how do I tell whether my Deacon originally had single coils or mini humbuckers?
I have brass (?) saddles on the bridge. |
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January 2006
Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | Originally posted by McKinley Morganfield:
THANKS to everyone for the education (and for the patients with me)! Only a few days here, and he's already in the insane asylum with the other patients.
Nylon saddles and large single coils came first. I don't know if there were any with brass saddles and large single coils. Maybe you can date yours by the serial number and make a better guess.
I've had my Deacon for 30+ years but haven't been all that impressed with the sound of the stock mini humbuckers and preamp. You might love them- it's all subjective. I haven't heard the large single coils for years, but if Miles has a set, they might be a good choice.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 8
Location: West Lafayette, Ind. | Opps...I guess I should proof before I post. Yes, on some days I feel like an asylum "patient." But today I thank you all for you "patience." [thanks Steve)
--
So right now there's an Ovation Preacher on ebay that has the original mini humbuckers replaced with white bobbin demarzio pickups. The dimarzios in the photo look exactly like those in my Deacon (although I haven't pulled them to see if a manufacture is listed.
So, was/is there a general consensus that the mini-humbukers weren't that great? |
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Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | Just wait a while, someone will post that I'm a heretic and the original setup is perfect. I like a bit more treble and a dip in the midrange (but the notch filter is too much). I'm just a living room noodler, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. My Deacon is back to original for now.
If you have "vintage" Dimarzios, they should be worth something to the right buyer.
If you buy any set of Ovation pickups, they should retain their value so you can resell them if you don't like them.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Uncle Woody's Frugal Luthier Tip #19:
Place a capo on the 9th fret of you Ovation solid body and loosen the stings. Then pull the slack up toward the bridge and loosen the strings again, repeat the tug.
Now you have not removed the set of strings but you can remove the bridge from the body, allowing you to remove the pickgaurd and pick ups for cleaning, repair, photo op or whatever.
Replacement is easy and allows for use of the same set of strings following the examination.
The "Preamp" is on a circuit board. |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Also to note:
My preference for pups is the Viper ones. I put a set into a Mahogany Deacon and is was luscious. I am not fascinated by the active electronics, as historical as they are, but there are so many things you can do outside of the guitar that it seems better to just simplify. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | numbfingers - There's actually an adjustment for the notch filter I believe on those pre-amps. There are two thumb-wheel pots on the board, but I forget which does what at the moment.
Mwoody - I agree on the Viper pickups. They are in a category like P-90 pickups. Not comparing them, just that they are a pickup unto themselves in sound and dynamics. The UKII's fall into this category also, but I still prefer the Viper pickups overall for range of dynamics and tone. |
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Location: NW Washington State | Miles-
If I remember correctly, one of the little pots is like a balance control for the volume of the two pickups. The other is a null control for the weird out-of-phase position on the pickup selector. The notch is a little too radical for me, and there's some distortion in the bass if you hit the low E or A really hard.
My Deacon and Breadwinner have been through a few different pickup/preamp permutations over the years, some better than others, most of them too complicated for a real guitar player who would perform in public. I think that a simple setup like a Viper, with maybe a boost switch in place of the notch, will make most people happy.
Maybe I should take the pickups from my Viper and put them in the Deacon? I suspect they would overdrive the preamp...
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | " The notch is a little too radical for me, and there's some distortion in the bass if you hit the low E or A really hard. "
Wonder if there is an issue with the preamp. I have not heard that. Also, are you using the tone as it's meant with "0" being in the middle. Just curious.. On the later ones they used 0 - 10 tone knobs, and that wasn't really right as they were really set up as "normal" being in the middle.
I too have noticed differences in the pre-amps tones over the years. |
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Location: NW Washington State | The notch filter is supposed to be compensated so that the volume doesn't change when it's switched in. My idea is that the notch is a bit too deep, so the extra gain that's needed is enough to send the preamp into distortion. Both of mine distort a little bit on peaks in the bass. Most people probably wouldn't notice this (I'm incredibly discerning :) ). I used to play through a clean headphone amp with no effects.
Hmm, "normal" isn't normal? I've never fully understood the action of the tone control. Looking at the schematic with those weird switches gives me a headache.
I think that most of these old preamps probably need a refresh- new switches, pots, and electrolytic caps replaced. But it's easier to use something else or no preamp at all.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "Hmm, "normal" isn't normal? I've never fully understood the action of the tone control."
Actually I've always thought is was one of the more simple. That active electronics although "technically" a pre-amp, is really more of an Active EQ. Volume is Volume and Tone is well... tone. From the CENTER or on the older knobs "Normal" (straight) you give more Bass or More Treble (more highs or more lows), rather than a normal "tone control" that really only goes from normal (10) and just takes away highs (down to 0).
It's personal taste, but the Ovation FET is about as simple to me as the Viper. Two simple controls, Volume and Tone... the only thing a bit odd, is that flat, normal or whatever you want to call it, is in the center of the tone knob and you boost Highs or Lows. Of course the added design factor is that while going high or low, the volume doesn't change.
I guess the Neck, Bridge, Both arrangement is a little odd, and really not sure why they did that.
But in general, Pretty slick.. and way ahead of it's time.
Does anyone know the reasoning of the Neck-Bridge-Both switch pattern vs the more normal Bridge-Both-Neck pattern ? |
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Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | I guess I understand what the tone control is supposed to do. I'm not sure that mine works that way. It seems like my Deacon has some bass boost. As the control is turned towards bass the low end gets louder. It doesn't seem to have treble boost. As the control is turned from normal to treble, I hear little or no increase in the high end. There is a conventional treble cut as the control is turned down. Maybe it's not working as it should. Or maybe I should have a hearing test and find out if I can still hear high frequencies!
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
Does anyone know the reasoning of the Neck-Bridge-Both switch pattern vs the more normal Bridge-Both-Neck pattern ? Purely a guess, but... my experience is that I don't use "both" very often. It's either the bridge or the neck pickup. So the switch only requires one click rather than two. Reduces wear, too. |
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Posts: 498
| if the preamp on these is the same as on the PD, I believe there are two small pots that can be adjusted, one of which is to balance the signal when switching the notch on or off..
you can access them with the battery plate off. use a nylon or plastic screwdriver so you don't short anything while balancing or adjusting.
Glenn |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | 
Glen I assume you mean these, the white and blue
AJ |
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Newbie seeks help with a Deacon restoration