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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Just a topic starter.
I read a comment that Kaki King made in the recent interview "most great guitar players also know how to sing" and thought it would make for interesting discussion.
I don't agree with the comment, but that isn't important.
The guitar players I think of as great, usually do not sing, although some can. I know from my personal experience in any band, I either sang, or played guitar, usually not both if I could help it.
thoughts?? |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Personally, I don't think I'm good enough on guitar to even be called a "guitarist". I play well enough to accompany my singing. I don't think that there are too many people who do both really well. |
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Location: Jet City | my favorite guitarists don't sing, but some of my favorite performers do.
Some guitarists should have remained guitarists.... Clapton comes to mind. |
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Location: NJ | Now, I've always felt that Clapton's singing ability improved as his career progressed . . . |
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Location: big island | +1 what cliff said |
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Location: enid, ok | Her list of great players must be far different than mine, I'm with Miles on this. I even have Steve Morse on record saying, "I refuse to sing" during a song. I think most of my favorite players feel that way. I either do one or the other. I have mucho respect for guys like Jack Bruce; I don't even pretend to do that, because I can't. |
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Location: Jet City | Originally posted by lanaki:
+1 what cliff said I do agree to a point too, but the early stuff was a bit harsh on the ears, especially if you paid $ for the album |
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Location: NJ | It's hard for your voice t'sound good when you've got a melting glacier sliding down the back of your throat and your septum is non-existant . . . |
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Location: GA USA | Maybe the best guitarists aren't singers. I saw Queen twice and Brian May didn't sing either time, even though he sang lots on the albums.
But maybe... the best singers can play guitar. James Taylor, Kenny Loggins... |
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Location: big island | ... eva cassidy... |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I disagree with Kaki's comment, too. Many great guitar players sing, but only some really know how to sing well. Many great singers play a guitar, but only some really know how to play well. The number of people who can do both really well is far less, and many of those have never been in the right place at the right time to exploit their talent to a professional level. |
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Location: Jet City | I think Taylor does a great job at both, Campbell and Croce do too, but I think these folks are exceptions to the rule. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I think Damon's comments point out something. There aren't many rock guitar players/singers that come to mind that are good at both. If you've got to shout to be heard over the guitar, you won't sound good. If you're into hard rock, you probably won't find a "good" guitar player who is also a good singer. And they might be able to play a decent lick while drunk or stoned, but couldn't sing in that condition.
If the guitar is played to accompany the voice, a good singer could also play well and vice versa.
On the other end of the spectrum, I'm trying to think of any classical or Spanish guitar players, or something similar, who also sing. It just doesn't go together. Maybe the only type of music where the two seem to meld is the pop/folk/country stuff. |
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Location: Feeding Hills, MA | Does this qualify?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzW3rb57Ks0&feature=related |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I Cannot Sing... Sometimes I get distracted if I try to sing out loud while play... But that does not really matter... CUZ I CANNOT SING! |
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Location: Jet City | Mark has a point, but again there are exceptions. Dave Meniketti has a killer voice and is one of my all time favorite guitar players. Rik Emmett comes to mind, as well as his fellow Canadian Geddy Lee (OK< I know it's a bass, but what he does on it is freekin impossible).
I don't think country music has more excellent guitar players that sing, I do think they have more singers that play guitar though. Again, there are exceptions.
But the real question.... Where are all the Rap guitarists? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | There you go, Damon. Talking about people I never heard of. I suspect you're into the 80s and younger era again. |
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Location: Feeding Hills, MA | So I take it that nobody likes Kenny Loggins...but I at least expected a comment on his choice of guitar! |
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Location: Scotland | She's absolutely right but it's not really about the ability to "sing" well, it's about the ability to create melody on your chosen instrument, be it strings, keys, voice or whatever. There are a ton of great guitar players who cannot sing, and those that don't understand the concept and importance of melody, dynamics, phrasing and how they relate to harmony just as a great vocalist does. That's the difference.
I'm paraphrasing a little here, but those who were at Amelia should think back to what Matt was saying about singing while improvising.
I can't sing to save my life, but I to "think" like a vocalist when I'm playing. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by 2stix:
So I take it that nobody likes Kenny Loggins...but I at least expected a comment on his choice of guitar! Ok, I'll comment on his choice of guitars. I hate Taylors.
Satisfied? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Bob Dylan - a hundred years ago at Newport Folk Festival
That would be July 25 1965... just seems like a hundred years ago... :cool: |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Thinking about Kaki's statement... I know of alot of singers who Can play guitar, but don't do it on stage.
Why? (they might say) "I can sing, I can write songs, I can play guitar, I even play guitar while I write songs...
But this guy is So Much Better!"
And there are alot of guitarist/songwriters who really shouldn't sing! :eek: |
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Location: Feeding Hills, MA | Ok, I'll comment on his choice of guitars. I hate Taylors.
Satisfied? [/QB]
No, cuz it looks like an ovation to me, but then, I'm not a professional... |
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Location: SoCal | He played Ovations 30 years ago. Now he plays Taylors. |
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Location: Feeding Hills, MA | The clip was from '72 when he was doing his best work...makes sense to me that he was playing an "O" at the time! |
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Location: GA USA | Originally posted by 2stix:
So I take it that nobody likes Kenny Loggins... Stix, I commented on Loggins way back, see above. A great singer and songwriter. He could have been on par with JT as one of the great American singer-songwriters were it not for his need to reinvent himself in the 80's. Going GQ and becoming the soundtrack king tarnished him.
Still, one of the great singers. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I'm trying to think of any classical or Spanish guitar players, or something similar, who also sing. Well, a surprising amount of classical music has no lyrics......
But; to partially answer the question
Glen Campbell
Lee Roy Parnell
Bonnie Raitt
Vince Gill
Joe Walsh (ok, a squeaker..)
All of them session players also known to turn in a damn fine vocal. Generally, nothing applies to everyone. Every single one of us has a different collection of abilities. Some of us get to find out what they are....the rest don't fail enough to find out.
...............................................
Then there are those 'singers' who really aren't, but are still fine entertainers.
Doug and the Slugs
Suzi Quatro
Slade |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I can't sing. I think that's why I learned to really play guitar. So many female guitarists with good voices only learned to strum strum behind their vocals. They are still doing it. I have heard some great voices that were diminished by so-so guitar playing. Because I can't sing, and strumming didn't sound like the song, I learned to finger-pick so I could get the melody in there and make the song recognizable. Now that I'm in South Dakota, 2,000 miles away from the woman who sang for me for over 20 years, if I want people to hear any of the songs I have written, I have to sing them. I do it, and people say I sing well, but I hate it. I get stage fright, and I feel like a fool.
There are some excellent guitarists who sing and play at the same time. Dan Crary and Tony Rice come to mind. But I will never forget the liner notes on one of Leo Kottke's early albums, where he compared his own voice to geese farting on a foggy morning, or something to that effect. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I agree with Kaki King. Well, sort of any way, like all rules there are exceptions. But what I really notice when watching other's perfom is someone who can sing well and play guitar well.
I have seen countless examples of a great singer standing there in front of a mic without an instrument, or a great guitarist who plays very well but never sings a note, these people have talent and I dont want to detract from that, but again I really notice the performers who pull off both parts.
And quite honestly they dont even have to be very great at either, I just have a lot of admiration for those that can do both. I remember back a long time ago trying to get over that hurdle of playing and singing at the same time. It just takes the performance to a whole other level.
And to cite a few more examples, how about Paul Simon, Dave Matthews, David Byrne, John Fogerty, Paul McCartney, Nancy Wilson, Lindsey Buckingham, David Gilmore, Jimmi Hendrix, Steven Stills, Matt Smith to name a few.... |
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Location: Feeding Hills, MA | Originally posted by Captain_Lovehandles:
Originally posted by 2stix:
So I take it that nobody likes Kenny Loggins... He could have been on par with JT as one of the great American singer-songwriters were it not for his need to reinvent himself in the 80's. Going GQ and becoming the soundtrack king tarnished him. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Not that I'm great at either, but one thing I've noticed is that one of them has to be so over learned that it is automatic. Usually this is the guitar bit - I can sing when I'm playing well known chords that change at standard times (the beginning or middle of a bar) with an over-learned (and regular) strumming or picking pattern.
I suspect a lot of the people Brian named are playing guitar well within their peak capacity when they are singing - it's no coincidence that the most fancy guitar work (lead breaks etc) happen when they are not singing. e.g. Nancy Wilson does not sing during the intro to Crazy on You. |
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| I do pretty good doing both on the acoustics. I do see a difference when I just sing though. Playing seems to tap some volume and concentration from my vocals. and they are only fair to good at best anyway. My biggest wish is that could play Bass and sing better. Every band project I have been involved with needs bassist/vocalist. Playing bass lines takes way more concentration for me while singing than playing guitar for some reason? You would'nt think that would be true. At least I never did.
I think someone in here once said;
"playing bass is easy playing bass well is hard"
So true, so true. |
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Location: Michigan | Somebody tell this guy that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoxHGxQw9ws
Im not buying into that statement.GWB |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | GWB - I see how he does it - chew gum! Lets see him do that with a harmonica. :eek:
NC, playing bass and singing is difficult because you are trying to produce 2 different melodies at the same time.
It is easier to strum, even finger pick, when you sing, coz the guitar bit is usually pretty much muscle memory. Assuming it's a well rehearsed, repetitive strumming/picking piece. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Singing and playing the guitar go hand in hand.
When they teach ragas in india, or so they say on tv, they teach them to sing the raga first, then to play it.
Being able to sing the tune, helps you play it (and visa versa) |
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Location: North Carolina | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I read a comment that Kaki King made in the recent interview "most great guitar players also know how to sing" Absolutely not. Singing is a skill that must be acquired and honed like any other. The voice is another instrument; singing ability does not come free with the guitar like picks or a set of strings.
In my experience, many people who play guitar even a little do assume they can sing. I have heard Kaki sing, and her comment explains a lot. |
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Location: Tennessee | Stevie Ray Vaughn. Kurt Cobain. Jimi Hendrix. Dave Mason. Richard Thompson. Brian Setzer. And especially George Harrison. All played and sang lead. Tom Petty played bass and sang the leads on the Mudcrutch tour.
Of course, you can argue that none of the above know how to sing, but they are certainly all unique and memorable. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Come to think of it, My ex is a fine fine guitarist, but if his life depended on it, he couldn't carry a tune. I think for a lot of us, the voice is like any other instrument. You have to learn how to use it. BUT, a lot of us have Estebans for voices. No matter how much we practice, it's never going to sound any good. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
BUT, a lot of us have Estebans for voices. :D
I gotta remember that one. |
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Location: Michigan | I used to think that the group "Santana" had Carlos doing most of the lead singing and then realized that he did very little of it.
I don't really know if I consider Carlos a GREAT PLAYER or a very cool style player.
I still like his music alot.GWB |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Santana sings? |
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Location: Nashville TN. | If your going to sing the guitar has to be automatic, that way you concentrate on the singing.
If the guitar ceases to be automatic then both tend to go south real fast. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | |
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| Temps comment is very interesting, I have been playing and singing for a while. For me, learning my limitations and trying to break through them is more than half the fun of playing to begin with. With that said I am now being schooled using Matts tools I bought from him a while back and a friend who is a stunning guitarist. (I mean he does Joe Satrioni's Midnight for fun kind of stunning) Anyway I am beginning to understand how to form lead scales and take first second & third parts of these scales to work them into a more personal sound. double picking faster and faster as muscle memory slowly kicks in. I find that when I try and build a good sounding lead scale so it is less mechanical sounding and I put some pulls and stops in, Your right Paul, I try and think about it, like I am singing. It is like a super high octave voice I am trying to hear.
As for great guitarists who sing. I'd say there are a few like Steve Howe and Jimmy Page that don't sing much, if at all. Then there are guy's like Clapton, and Hendirx, Gilmore who are great guitarists or were, and can sing fine but not great. These lists must be extensive if I took the time to think but I can't think of many great guitarist who were also GREAT lead vocalists. By great guitarist I mean outstanding unique lead guitarists........not the thousands of great musicians like John Denver, or James Taylor or even Sting. Can anyone help me name some guitarists who could do both really really well??? I am blanking out. ??? lets compile a list that might settle this. By the way Kenny Loggins is great! |
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Location: Tennessee | I still like my list above. But I can add to it.
Steve Miller.
Henry Garza. Brother Jojo Garza doing the bass/secondary lead vocal thing. Together they are spectacular. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | OK Here's a very small list of some who do both well:
Eric Johnson
Sonny Landreth
Robben Ford
SRV
Brian Setzer
David Gilmore
Mark Knopfler
BB King
Rory Gallagher
Buck Dharma (Blue Oyster Cult)
Warren Haynes
Adrian Belew
Peter Frampton
Alvin Lee
Bruce Cockburn
Dave Mustane
Jorma Kaukonen
George Benson
Some guitarists can sing and play others can't. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | "Sing" should be in quotes. She's making the case for being musical... |
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| Good list, those guy's can sing for sure. Personally when I think of each of those guys I do not think of great lead vocals. SRV & BB King they were their own style, David Gilmore is a good singer as well but I would never pick one of them if we were trying to make a list of great "lead singers". I would put them in the thousands of great musicians who do both list.
I can't think of one musician who was a tremendous lead guitarist as well as an outstanding lead vocalist.
If I missed anyone elses list I mean no disrespect. And I do not want to change the direction of this thread (my personal take is there is an overwhelming number of great guitarists who can sing quite well) I am just honestly curious if anyone else can think of someone that you could call a great vocalist as well as lead guitarist. Think about it; would you put Eric J. or David G. on a "great lead vocalists" list? |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I think most of the guys on my list hold their own with lead vocalists from a lot of bands, past or present.
Sonny Landreth and Eric Johnson are both very good singers in my book. Warren Haynes (Allman Bros, Govt Mule) has a great soulful rock voice. Bruce Cockburn is easily as good a vocalist as guitarist and he plays very well.
Yeah I stand by my list, each guitarist on it, is very good in their particular genre.
But, please, if Steve Howe ever grabs a microphone again, somebody stop him! |
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| Never mind. I think my question is lost here. I also think your list has some good vocalist on it. I mentioned that twice now in fact. I also mention Steve Howe is a terrible singer. Did you miss that? Sounds like we agree to me. Perhaps my post is vauge? Sorry for that if it was.
Can anyone think of someone who could be considered a "great vocalist", with the same stature as they are as a "great guitarist"? I am thinking someone who would be in your top 10 greatest guitarists list and in your top 10 greatest vocalists list.
Seriously, if I was listing great vocalists David Gilmore would not make the top 50 and I love all his work. He would be in my top 10 guitarist list though. If you see my point.
Thanks, I am not looking for a fight just one name that stands out?? |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I see your point Randy, and like you said I think we agree on some things here. Especially Steve Howe, great guitarist, terrible singer.
Deciding who is a great singer, just like who is a great guitarist is very subjective. There may even be someone who thinks Dylan is a good singer! |
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| Originally posted by Designzilla:
There may even be someone who thinks Dylan is a good singer! Okay, now you've gone off the deep end! |
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| Subjective yes, I just honestly can't come up with one from my own memory that I would say is that outstanding in each category and I found this interesting and was wondering if anyone else had someone in mind.
As for the original question about singing and playing I'd say there is an overwhelming number of great guitarists who sing quite well.
And Dylan, well I see your point but I think we can try and find names of those who would be widely recognized as "great".
Again just adding to the thread not trying to change its course.
I don't think there is anyone myself. |
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Location: Tennessee | Who do you think are great vocalists? Maybe we can start there. We know who you think are not. I still think the Garza Brothers ought to make the cut. ;) |
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Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | The King...50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong...
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Location: Cork, Ireland | I would draw a distinction between being able to sing and having a good voice?
I think being able to sing is like being able to play guitar, whereas having a good voice is like having a good guitar. When the two come together, great music is made.
I think Joni Mitchell is an exceptional singer and guitarist. |
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Location: Cork, Ireland | Originally posted by Designzilla:
There may even be someone who thinks Dylan is a good singer! sounds much better as a hoarse 60-something-year-old than a nasal 20-something-year-old |
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Location: North Carolina | Originally posted by sycamore:
I would draw a distinction between being able to sing and having a good voice?
Absolutely right. Your voice is your voice. When you can control it, you're singing. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | So true. Look at Willie Nelson. (Well, don't look at him, listen to him.) He has a very nasal voice, but such control that I consider him a great singer. Same with Janice Joplin. Then there are people who have great voices, but no control, such as Jim Morrison. Then there are folks like me, with marginal voices, no control, almost incapacitating stage-fright, and a fear of trying, because people might consider me a jerk who thinks I can sing! |
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Location: GA USA | Thinking about it, there are some who are very good at both. Somebody already mentioned Vince Gill, but how about Dan Schafer? He's none too shabby at either. |
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Opinions on Singing and Playing