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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Anyone else want to weigh in on this one? :rolleyes: :cool:
Taylor nylons versus Ovation nylons |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | As much as I completely 100% totally hate everything about Taylor guitars, I should refine that to only steel stringed ones. I don't know the models but I played two different Taylor nylons and they sounded damn fine to my feeble ears. Very lively, responsive and clear as a bell. I've yet to hear an Ovation nylon come close to that, unless your priority is plugged in work or your last name is Lara.
Personally, I'd go for the Tak TC135. It's basically Taks version of a Country Artist. Less than classical nutwidth, rosewood back/sides iso plastic and a Cooltube preamp which is tops in the business.
You asked !!!
Dave |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I posted over there, just because that Wanker DrDavidFackingHartman. What a totally bigoted spoo sucking..... ah what's the use. He'll never change his mind. Best he stay the way he is. You ever notice that sometimes it's more fun to dislike people than to like them....? |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Some people are like Slinkies…not really good for anything,but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Seen on a bumper sticker |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
I posted over there, just because that Wanker DrDavidFackingHartman. What a totally bigoted spoo sucking..... ah what's the use. He'll never change his mind. Best he stay the way he is. You ever notice that sometimes it's more fun to dislike people than to like them....? Wow Beal, I missed that one! Here's a link to acousticguitar.com just in case someone here feels like venting, unloading, rabble-rousing...whatever. (Yeah, it's a little bit of instigating.)
It's been a while since I've seen so much anti-Ovation invective in just a couple of pages.
Acousticguitar.com forum
Just in case, I'd like to point out that this is not the Acoustic Guitar Forum (AKA, the AGF), it is the forum at AcousticGuitar.com |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Geez, Bill. That forum must have a spell checker. I couldn't even tell it was you.
I've only played a few nylon stringed guitars that I liked, but I don't much like the "itty-bitty-plinky" sound of most nylon stringed guitars. I've played a Rodriguez or 2 and a very expensive Spanish guitar in Barcelona.
I didn't like either as well as I like my 1713. The Country Artist I could take or leave. I play it because Classical Gas sounds right on it. |
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Location: Indiana | I been confronted with this biased nonsense for 34+ years. I refuse to even participate in the argument anymore.
I do however thoroughly enjoy when one of my guitars speaks for itself. My Adamas in particular has shut mouths and turned numerous heads through the years, even from wood purist's. I've taken great pride in taking it to important recording sessions and "acoustic" festival's, biting my tongue at the comments when I first take it out of the case, and accepting with pleasure the genuine complements after playing it.
I accept and respect that there are players who genuinely dislike the Ovation sound. But for some, just seeing an Ovation causes their ears to shut down.
Case in point, as many of you know, my EA-68 has a naturally finished back. On occasion, some poor soul will approach me after a show and say, "I always hated the sound of those plastic guitars!". I then turn the guitar over, exposing the mahogany back, and they are left to deal with their unfounded bigotry.
Personally, I love the sound I get from my 30 year old, deep bowl classic, both plugged in and mic'd in the studio. Subjective, yes, but Ovations' nylon string offerings have consistently been outstanding performers for me. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Many people just don't know. I have a friend who bought his second guitar a few years ago. He tried several and decided on a $2500 Taylor. But when he told me about the Ovations he saw, they were all Celebrities.
He finally came out for a visit and seemed impressed with what I have. He probably couldn't say much with his wife sitting there. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | One of the advantages of age is that we become less dependent upon others for affirmation and reinforcement of our choices, eventually reaching the point where it really doesn't matter what others think or do because our value system is based upon intrinsically defined values. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | What I get a kick out of is how when you post vids of Al Di Meola, Glenn Campbell, Kaki King, Steve Lukather and Matt Smith...all playing Ovations...the response is "well, that's not music".
Laughable.
My strategy, such as it is, is to continue to post clips of outstanding players playing Ovations. The detractors can say what they want, but Al/Glen/Kaki/Steve/Matt speak for themselves.
So, if you have some favorite Ovation clips, pass them along. |
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Location: big island | add some loggins and messina and croce tunes to the mix, jeff. i realize this is about nylon'ers but a few other credible players using O's couldn't hurt. but i'm with professor and jonmark...who cares? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | But you have to put in context that those players back in the day used ovation nylons because there was no other plugged in game in town.
The specific question on the AGF thread was about unplugged nylon sound and based on the guitars I have personally played (2 Taylor nylons and a 6-8 Ovation nylons) the Taylors won hands down by a significant margin. You have no idea how much it pains me to admit that.
Dave |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
One of the advantages of age is that we become less dependent upon others for affirmation and reinforcement of our choices, eventually reaching the point where it really doesn't matter what others think or do because our value system is based upon intrinsically defined values. Oh, yeah? Who cares what you think? |
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Location: south east Michigan | Omaha... I give you lots of credit for fighting the good fight. I'll take a shot once in a while just to stay in the game but it seems like you just can't make any headway.
And Bill... I don't see you come comin' out swinging like that very often. It's got to be extra frustrating for you. Of course to them you're just tricone.. that guy who likes Nationals.
The internet sure is a funny place.
I'd be happy if the general consensis toward Ovations was just neutral. Heck, you don't have to love em, just don't hate them out of ignorance, prejudice, and lack of experience. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes Dave but a Tak is even better and probably cheaper too so go straight to there.
I've spent some time over there this afternoon.
Dave, If i recall correctly DrDave also was the one who so vehimently stated that the Tak 75 couldn't be EVEN considered to be in the same league as a Collings OM. Then the dick admitted that he'd never even played a 75.
Yeah, he's a facking slinky alright.
Yeah Brad, it spoosucker just hit me funny. I'm waiting for him to tell me that I really don't know anything about guitars. Then I'll let him believe it. People like him, they know it all which is great because we don't have to esplane any of it to them. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
we don't have to esplane any of it to them. Mark,
Did ya send some of your latest wine to MB? |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Omaha... I give you lots of credit for fighting the good fight. I'll take a shot once in a while just to stay in the game but it seems like you just can't make any headway. Just to be clear, my purpose is not to persuade. I figure the haters are going to stay haters. The best you can hope for is to give them a chance to make themselves look stupid (which is a given, if you allow them enough time...hate is always ugly once you see it in its full blossom).
Instead my purpose is to ensure that any time someone does a Google search and stumbles into one of those old threads, that they see that there is more to the Ovation story than "yeah, that's the guitar that they all hate". |
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Location: Budd Lake, NJ | Well, I read the comments, and will have to go and take another blood pressure pill. I know there are other guitar clubs out there, but after my first experience with an alien board I'm not so sure I'm really up for another intergallactic experience.
Give me a few nice peaceful Klingons anyday, Cap'n.
--Karen |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I liked Ovations because they were revolutionary in a revolutionary time. I don't think anyone used the phrase "think out of the box" back then, but that would have applied to Ovation. If you want traditional, fine. Stay in the box. That doesn't mean the box can't be improved. Ovation has been around long enough that it is no longer revolutionary, and some people are just envious of success. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I like Ovations because they piss the DrDaves of the world off, big time. |
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Location: closely held secret | Good point, Beal.
Not much sport in it, but it is entertaining. |
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Location: SoCal | I just got done frying DrDave's ass...... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Who's this other guy that thinks he knows physics. The round shape projects lees because more of the back fits against a person's body??? After all this discussion about contour bowls and the deep bowls not fitting the body, he tells us they fit too well. I guess I don't need to lose that paunch now. I wonder if any of these people could tell one guitar from another in a blind test, or even one without the price tags. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | He's just another self-appointed expert, frequently incorrect but never unsure. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I like Ovations cuz their mere existence annoys the wood-box crowd.
As I said in an earlier thread about one of my guitar acquisitions...
"Elite T, OP-Pro Preamp, Lyrachord parabolic bowl body, Orange Flames on the top... $553.
Annoying your Wood Box Loving Friends... Priceless!" :D |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I didn't make the connection. I thought "DrDave" you were talking about ME !!!
Yeah Bill, he's the rectocele that bedpanned the EF75 without ever playing or hearing it.
If I drive to the Collings event I'm gonna bring the EF75, the Clarence White and the Slothead.
Dave |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | DrDave?!?!
Dave, when you hear them talking about Gilligan, then it's time to think they're talking about you. :D
And go get 'em with the 75, CW and Slothead. The jerk. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | If nothing else, the point has been made on the Acoustic Guitar Forum that Ovation bashing will not be ignored.
In the end, that's what matters the most. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I tried to stay clear... I really did.. but I just could not help myself...
Dear drdave....
Like Mr. Moody I am long past spending precious life energy in childish debate over tastes in guitars but I do enjoy a well informed discussion. What makes me dip my toes in the water of this little discourse is your use of such absolute terms as... "Everything", "EVERY ONE of them sucked", and "worst sounding acoustics ever made". Those type of terms are used by the guy who has reached the bottom of the barrel of debateable ideas and is desperate to retain and resembalance of credibility he thought he had. You've backed yourself so far into the corner that the only next step you have is to say, "Oh yeah, well my Dad is better than your Dad... so there!"
Although I test drive every make and model of guitar I can I find, the high end Ovations suit me just fine. I've played many a Taylor, Martin, Collins, etc, etc, and have remained open minded enough to appreciate the good ones.
So drdave, I'll close with a statement that has served me well over the years....
Never argue with an idiot because he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Well said Brad. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Back in the late 60's, I remember similar battles between my classmates about which was better, Ford or Chevy. My position then is pretty much the same as it is now . . . what difference does it make as long as you had one or the other, or anything else (except Ramblers, nobody liked Ramblers), it ran, and you had a license to drive it? Personally, I like the lightbulb post better. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | We had a Rambler. My first car was an AMC Javelin. I never fit in with the majority then, either. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I really loved my Gremlin.
.
Didn't we all get into those Ford vs. Chevy type arguments as a kid? It's how we aquire social skills for the future. It's just part of the growing up process. Unfortunatly some people never get past that lesson. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
My first car was an AMC Javelin. Sweet, sweet lil' auto! I'm always keeping my eyes open for one in decent shape.
I didn't care for the AMX... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | There's a guy in Texas that had a whole yard full of Javelins, AMXs and other AMCs, but I got into collecting guitars instead. I think they're cheaper. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I drive a mini-van. It holds 5 guitars and a mando inside the rear hatch without having to drop any seats. Oh yeah, it comes in handy for family outings too. :rolleyes: |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Talk to Damon. I bet he could show you how to get at least 16 guitars in there. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | For me it was Mets vs. Yankees.
I had a hard time defending my Bombers in those days when the line up was filled with the likes of Horace Clark, Joe Pepitone and Tommy Tresh.
Dave |
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Location: NJ | MetsSuck. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Say Dave, were you a big fan in 1963, when my beloved (at the time) Dodgers swept them in 4 straight? Anybody collect baseball cards? I have thousands dating from about 1956 to 1964, and a few from prior years as well, just sitting in shoeboxes in the attic. Scary to think what they might be worth today. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | For cars, anything with a big back seat worked for me. My GMC panel truck was popular in Highschool for oh, so many reasons....like, the whole gang fit in it! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm having trouble picturing a gang of Canadian thugs getting out of a GMC panel wagon with their funny hats and black socks, saying "hey".
I drove my parents' International Travelall. We called it the Beast. The Javelin didn't hold as many gang members. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | We turned the odometer over the third time on a Rambler Ambassador.
You could pile seven teenagers and a case of beer in that thing...
More... if you were going out to woods and could have people sitting in the trunk.
And the seats turned into a bed, in case you got Lucky :D |
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| http://www.uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a3p3T3R0dFg&feature=related
the greatest of them all - and notice how 3 pages of comment only discuss how beautiful the music is, not the guitar he's playing. And is trio is Billy Higgins and Charlie Hayden. Total legends to all jazz fans.
I'd love to see DrDave in a room explaining to Pat Metheny, Al di Meola, John McLaughlin, Birelli Lagrene, Adrian Legge and countless others, why they suck so much. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
Say Dave, were you a big fan in 1963, when my beloved (at the time) Dodgers swept them in 4 straight? I was just getting into it. More like 65-66 when I really became a big fan. Dave |
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| http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_qAtXtHxrHc&NR=1
another example from several years later - but this time on a $10,000 Manzer. Again, people blown away by the music and nobody mentions the guitar.
The Manzer doers sound better, but by $9,000???? |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Back about a hundred years ago, when I worked in Moosup, Marcel Dadi came to pick up his guitar and put on a mini concert for us. He first played an old-style (aluminum fretboard) Applause, and let me tell you, it sounded WONDERFUL. Then he played, I believe it was a Legend, and of course it sounded better. The point is, a good guitarist can make ANY guitar (except maybe an Esteban) sound good. I suspect that the reason Dr. Dave doesn't like Ovations is that the dude is a lousy guitarist. |
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| A deep bowl, cedar top and nylon strings...... is the deepest, clearest, most impressive classical guitar I have ever heard.
My Adamas 1's stand up to my close friends $3500-$4500 Taylors, every time we play.
There is no debate...............just lots of Ovation Envy out there.
And YES those who spout about Ovations being inferior have not heard of, nor tried, a deep bowl, american made, Ovation.
Next topic. Ohh yeah the prices.............
Hummm.............well I'd be kinda mad if I paid $3000 or $5000 to get a good Taylor and got a guitar that looks the same as a $50 hondo to the audience at 30'. |
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Location: SoCal | I think my latest post to Dr. Dave is going to get the thread shut down. He's an ass. Did you know he's a shrink? |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | You just proved that not only do Ovation fans have good taste, but are much more articulate than the average bear. Thanks. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I wouldn't risk developing carpel-tunnel-syndrome cyber-debating with a fock-wit shrink like him.
To play a guitar and form an opinion of it is fine. Any guitar. Any opinion. I have no problem that based on his experience he thinks that ovations sound like shet. But to start right out and admit openly that you've never even played the damn taylor guitar but can gaurantee that it sounds better than any ovation is just an absurd statement. The conversation should have ended there.
He's the same arse-wipe that bed-panned the Tak EF75 and admitted he had never ever heard the Tak but there was no way it could ever be considered in the same league as a Collings. You know what? I think my Collings om2 DOES sound better than my EF75, but at least I've played both damn guitars! What a focking douche-bag.
Dave |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It figures he's a shrink.
My only point in starting all that is that the level of bigotry pisses me off. He can hate anything he wants, but hate equally.
Over there when you mention Ovation it's like you're in a room full of Jews and you shout out Hitler was a good guy. You could yell that you don't like matzo or you hate wearing a yamicka and you'll get some reaction which is normal. That's what you should get to the Ovation thing, but NO, you get this full blown nuclear onslought from spoo sucking maggot muchers.
Now I need to go see what Moody posted today.... |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
I think my latest post to Dr. Dave is going to get the thread shut down. He's an ass. Did you know he's a shrink? Good post Paul... good post.
But he never will "get it". |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Like I said earlier, if you give those types enough rope, they will tie themselves in knots and look like idiots.
Dr Dave did not disappoint.
Is he really a Psychiatrist? That's actually damn funny. |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by Omaha:
Is he really a Psychiatrist? We should invite him over here. Ought to be a target rich environment for him. ;) |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | Interesting. Been called a lot of thngs in my lifetime but never pompous.
From now on you may all address me as Dr. Weas. HUMPF!! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I wonder if Dr.Dave the shrink diagnoses patients without ever meeting them ...
He has no problem diagnosing guitars that way.
Dave (not DR.Dave) |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | So... Is this thread increasing the AFG's membership? |
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| It is a facinating phenomenon (one I am sure you've dealt with your whole life Beal) I just do not understand how such an inovative guitar; One that made the lives of professionals and novices alike "better" through the new built-in electronics.... the durability and then the construction quality, the sound, looks, and the fair pricing that came from this genius of a guy and his crazy crew from Conneticut. How cool is that story anyway? I am proud to know you Bill, I wish I could have met your Dad!
The mating of a rounded bowl design that vibrated a wood top as good or better than the traditional guitars do. How can that be such a bad thing? No one has ever changed things that much before or since.
No one up to that point in instument history had ever come up with anything that unique and ground breaking. Amazing in itself. Then that Adamas top.........Wow...........carbon fiber..........Another over the top inovation! Then you guy's did it again with the multihole design.........big wow again.......!.. Then look, especially today, at the costs in comparison with (lets say since the debate is with Taylors) a Taylor. An American made Ovation is once again a great, great deal.
I play out only once or twice each month. So I am not a pro but I am out there. I have always gotten comments and am still getting comments about how beautiful my Adamas is and how good it sounds. My buddy (who has some nice Taylor's) He rarely gets comments about his guitars. They like his music and his playing but I get the instrument attention.
Just one more reason I will always have a Nice American made Ovation guitar on stage with me. It is all part of the show and if the looks of the guitar is pleasing to everyone including me then I can do the math.
As for this guy and many on the AGF, Well I'd have to say I am a better man than this miserable fool. I am an avid Ovation fan but think Taylor makes a real nice guitar. I think they sound great! And I am man enough to admit it. Hell, I'd be proud to one. They are just not my first choice.... I choose my guitars from the list of things I posted earlier.. Taylor and the rest come in second place for me every time. Personally I want the best value. Ovation beats them in every category I have
F#ck Dr. Dink....there are lots of people who waste the good air for the rest of us. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I just want to insert a little clarification here: Again, I, and several other OFCers, belong to the AGF (the Acoustic Guitar Forum), which is different from the place Dr. whoever is posting on (a forum at Acoustic Guitar.com). I just wanted to state that I enjoy the AGF, so please don't confuse it with this guy.
Also, when I said earlier in this thread that I was instigating, I was being sarcastic. I had know idea it would generate hot topics on two different forums. Sorry if I put anybody out. |
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| Yep, See your point. My comments are directed at anyone who simply trashes one guitar company or another as I am sure most of us understand this. And this guy certainly fits the bill. AGF is a good site but I only own Ovation acoustics so I never bothered to join and besides there is enough fun right here. I did have the wrong site though. Thanks for the clarification.
Don't worry about who started this, your sarcasm or lack of it is not the cause, this guy's comments are the problem.... not you my friend. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | It's probably futile, but I just joined in and tried to alter the course a little bit. |
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Location: SoCal | Oh I can't resist this guy. He's in it for the head game of it, thinking he's smarter than everybody else.
He's not an MD, but rather a "neuropsychologist", whatever the hell that is. In his game playing, he reminds me of somebody who used to be on this board and was a royal pest after getting kicked off (no, not the one in Texas)..... |
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Location: Tennessee | Decorum, gentlemen. You know what they say about wrestling pigs. Treat him as if a troll. All the salient arguments have already been made. |
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Location: Keller, TX | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
He's not an MD, but rather a "neuropsychologist", whatever the hell that is. In his game playing, he reminds me of somebody who used to be on this board and was a royal pest after getting kicked off (no, not the one in Texas)..... Huh? Who? What we talking about??? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Oh I can't resist this guy. He's in it for the head game of it... When I first came to the OFC, wasn't that a sport known as "Trolling"?
Kinda like starting a thread with, "Y'know why Ovations really Suck?"
And the common-sense advice was "Don't Feed The Troll!"
[Then the moderator-folks would close the thread, sanction the perp, and he would reappear next week]
I read through the AGF crap once, realized that there was nothing that I hadn't heard before in person...
And that was that!
I am satisfied that some folks don't like Ovations... More for me at cheaper prices. :D
(Unfortunately, that hasn't worked-out to be true either. :p ) |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Texas Doc, that was a different guy who hasn't been here for a long time thank God.
North Country, thanks for all your comments. The thing that got me about this guy and the others was how fast and hard they jump on Ovation with nothing but twisted opinions. You know it would be possible to not like Ovations but still agree with all you said. I guess that goes back to the original statement from Al "Ovation's don't get the respect they deserve" Still holds true.
I really like Brad's statement about don't argue with idiots. I'm gonna use that one! |
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Location: SoCal | The guy on the other forum just irritates me. If I were smart, like Slipkid and Beal, I'd walk away from him. But sometimes I feel like I'm on "Dork Patrol" where I just gotta step on them ("So Many Dorks, So Little Time"). What's fun is that he's given me so much ammo, that every time I post, I can quote something stupid he's said to make my point. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Would someone please post the thread where all this "spoosucking" is going on...I want to play! :D |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Never mind...I found it!
"Let the games begin" |
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Location: NJ | I can't be bothered . . . I deal with ENOUGH StupidPeople on a daily basis . . . |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by cliff:
I can't be bothered . . . I deal with ENOUGH StupidPeople on a daily basis . . . I don't call you that often...... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I'm going to wait until I post the sound clips: then I'll invite them to take part as well and vote for the best sounding clips: no one will know which guitar they are voting for until the end of the contest/poll. BTW: there will be both wood and non-wood bodies represented, each miked with the same 10 yr. old Rode NT-2. No effects: just straight acoustic sound! I think the results will be amazing! |
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Location: NJ | ". . I don't call you that often......"
You're posting HERE, aren't you?? . . . |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by MusicMishka:
I'm going to wait until I post the sound clips: then I'll invite them to take part as well and vote for the best sounding clips: no one will know which guitar they are voting for until the end of the contest/poll. BTW: there will be both wood and non-wood bodies represented, each miked with the same 10 yr. old Rode NT-2. No effects: just straight acoustic sound! I think the results will be amazing! You gonna post them to the Ovation flame thread over on the Acoustic Guitar Forum? That will be wonderful! |
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Location: SoCal | Yeah, but the fun posts are with DrDave. I'm at a point where I'm expecting to get kicked off that board.... |
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Location: south east Michigan | This morning I did go back and apologize for using the term "idiot", then went and fired a couple shots across the bow.
Unless I'm directly addressed, I'm about done over there.
Now Moody.... You are testing the line over there. That the moderators have not stepped in already means that "we" have a point to make. The true test will be when they read the "Hitler" thing.
Paul... I think pushing it until you get banned is not a real good idea. I don't think it would help the cause any.
And admit it... we'd be going nuts too if it was happening over here. In fact... I'll bet we'll get some troll activity in the near future. Be ready. Let's not buy into it.
I don't think we are being trolls over there yet, but it's getting close.
Omaha.. "Walkin' into some tall corn"... I like that one. |
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Location: Texas | I am with Brad, better cool it now and quit.
We don't want to attract any trolls here and have to deal with that later. |
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Location: SoCal | Well, the thread is shut down and it's because of me. I reported it as I felt that it had gone on far enough. I won't go back there. They seem to like and defend DrDave so they can have him...... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Good. I was just about to join in, but couldn't decide between "LawyerMark" or "MarkJD". I played a Rodriguez nylon again last night. I guess I just don't care for the light, small sound of those Spanish guitars. I went home and played my 1713. I liked it a lot better.
And if you guys want to fight--I like the Folklore better than the FD-14--come and get me. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Well, I'm still looking forward to "MusicMike" posting some comparison clips.
If I may be so presumptuous as to make a suggestion, I propose you post the clips, then give everyone a day or to to publicly say which guitar is which. Then spring the truth on them. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Don't feed the Trolls or they'll come here looking for more......
....sincerity is like Crack to those types. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Well, the thread is shut down and it's because of me. I reported it as I felt that it had gone on far enough. I won't go back there. They seem to like and defend DrDave so they can have him...... Moody, you may want to check this thread out....
I Resign |
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| OK on to the next problem. That's what we do here........we make the world a better place. ;) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Sounds like it was for the best. Bigoted opinion by someone who couldn't see past the end of their nose. |
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Location: SoCal | The only thing that bothers me about it are the "nice" people who want him to stay. Life's too short to deal with people like that.
By the way, I just exchanged emails with Dan Gabel, another of the moderators and the (and I'm quoting because I'm actually kinda impressed with this title) Group Publishing & Editorial Director, Acoustic Guitar. He didn't like the Hitler analogy, asked me not to do that again, but was very nice about it. Confirms what I've always thought about the crew at Acoustic Guitar -- they seem to be a class act, which is why I just renewed my subscription for another 2 years.
He didn't ask me to leave the board. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | So, you all managed to get an idiot poster to resign from ANOTHER board when we can't even clean the trash out around HERE ???
Dave |
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Location: SoCal | One last thought stemming from the ruckus on the other board. I really appreciate this board almost more than I can say. It's a group of extremely intelligent, humorous, generous, kind, loving, free thinking individuals, with widely different views on politics, religon, guitars, and everything else you can imagine. But as different as we all are (and nobody's more differnt that Clifford except maybe the multiple personalities of Dave) we all work to get along. That's a rare combination.
We don't suffer fools gladly here and they don't last long. DrDave would be shot done here in a day.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this place and all of you people. This is my neighborhood pub (to steal somebody else's analogy) and I love it here. I can't tell you how much I love this place, but I suspect I don't have to. Most of you feel the same way.
Time to think about getting some sleep. Good night, and may the good news by your news..... |
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| Awww, group hug (including the llama)!
A hearty +1, Paul. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by g8r:
Awww, group hug (including the llama)!
A hearty +1, Paul. More group hug.  We all love each other here.
Except those people who play Taylors. Some don't like them. Me, I don't mind, if other people spend their money on wood boxes that keeps the Ovation prices down for me. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
I really appreciate this board almost more than I can say. It's a group of extremely intelligent, humorous, generous, kind, loving, free thinking individuals Aw, Paul. What about me??? :confused: |
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Location: south east Michigan | drdavidhartman
posted 07-24-2008 04:11 PM
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After discussing the issue by email with Teja, who has decided that I instigated the problems with the Ovation thread, I am resigning from the acoustic guitar list. Wow... the moderator called him out on it. |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | What's most unfortunate is that he refused to hear what everyone was saying and learned nothing. Once you put those blinders on, you're usually in for a for a world of hurt somewhere down the line. Tolerance can be an aquired taste but typically well worth the swallow. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Weaser P:
Tolerance can be an aquired taste but typically well worth the swallow. Uncanny resemblance other "conversations" I've had. |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | It's actually a very versatile concept. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Pity the fools that hire him as their psychoanalyst. |
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Location: closely held secret | Weaser only works as a psychoanalyst on the weekends. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by muzza:
Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
I really appreciate this board almost more than I can say. It's a group of extremely intelligent, humorous, generous, kind, loving, free thinking individuals Aw, Paul. What about me??? :confused: |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | He was over the line, flagrently throwing gas on the fire out of line. Has been several times. He got called on it and it's about time he did. I don't know if he needs to leave but he should consider himself censured and act accordingly.
I really had to restrain myself from posting on his goodbye thread. Something like "AMF!" or FOAD, something subtle like...
bye. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Someday when we are sitting around drinking beers, I'll share what I really think of DrDave.
In the mean time, in a forum where words live forever, I'll just say I wish him well. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I was busy playing my guitars. What did I miss?
M(almost got a life except for this place)Woody |
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| I'm not joining any group hug.
I'd rather go for a drink with drdave. |
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Location: NJ | tosser. |
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| git. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Of all the Acoustic guitar brands, I find Taylor players are much like Harley riders.
Now before I make my generalization and p-off a bunch of folks... there are exceptions to every "rule."
First I'll give the biker parallel.
There are Harley Riders, and some of them are bikers, but most are Harley Riders. The rest of us are just bikers, we ride what we want to ride.
There are Taylor Players, and some of them are guitarists/musicians as well, but most are Taylor Players. The rest of us (most that are reading this) are Guitar Players, we play the guitars we want to play.
You could say this about several brands, but Taylor sticks out as a "lifestyle" much like Harley. In the electric world, even the most di-hard of Gibson or Fender player usually acknowledges the finer points of a quality instrument, even if they prefer not to even be seen near it. A Martin player in general will look at the positive points of another guitar, although they'd rather play a banjo than something other than their Martin.
However, the Taylor "lifestyle" is a force that to coin a phrase from the Harley world... "If you have to ask, you just don't understand."
Rather than try to defend against or even get acceptance with a Taylor player, go out and find a greased pig and teach it to slow dance.
It's a heck of a lot more entertaining and ultimately at least there is a chance for success. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Moody, I liked your post and the Jewish reference. You said in one sentence what it took a paragraph for me to say, and it captures the essence of reactions to inflamatory comments, and how insensitive the speaker can be. |
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Location: closely held secret | Good parallel, Miles. I was thinking of the Harley mantra, "I'd rather push a Harley than ride a Honda". |
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Location: SoCal | Miles, the problem with your analogy is that you'll annoy the hell out of the pig....
Beal, I got called to task by one of the board moderators on that analogy (and I ripped it off from you), but I believe it's a good one (DrDumbass called me antisemitic because of it, again, not at all understanding the point -- I'm not even close to antisemitic altho' I am an antidentitr)..... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | But Wabbit, Don't you have a Honda?
[Oh, that is the point...] |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Originally posted by Weaser P:
What's most unfortunate is that he refused to hear what everyone was saying and learned nothing. ...there's this river in Egypt... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Omaha:
Someday when we are sitting around drinking beers, I'll share what I really think of DrDave.
In the mean time, in a forum where words live forever, I'll just say I wish him well. Wise man... :cool: |
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Location: Indiana | The AG thread was disappointing to me in that it illustrates that these prejudices still run deep. It really is a "fascinating phenomenon" as Northcountry accurately stated.
I have spent the majority of my life surrounded by working musicians, predominantly guitarists, and I can think of no other brand that illicits such caustic disdain as Ovation. It is honestly not an exaggeration to say that, through the years, the mere mention of the "O" word has made me the target of looks and comments rivaling those usually reserved for sexual deviants and meth addicts.
I'd have to say, as an O player in the 70's, it was at times nearly unbearable--- once again, not an exaggeration. It simply amazes me that these attitudes continue to run so strong.
Many festivals I perform at are folk oriented. The majority of participants, by default, are acoustic guitar players. Off stage and in after hour "pull's", you'll find Collings', Taylor's, Gibson's, Washburn's, Guilds, Martin's--- being swapped from player to player. Admiring comparisons are made and compliments given even though the majority of players are surely going to continue owning and playing their own chosen brand and model after all is said and done.
Throwing an Ovation or Adamas into that situation however often leads to a condescending inquisition or strained polite pity as to how a professional could possibly make such a misguided choice in instruments. It's almost as if wooden box aficionados see Kaman technology as an assault on the future of pure acoustic instruments. And maybe that's truly the underlying condition although it's an obviously unfounded presumption.
(To be "fair and balanced" though, I've also seen the occasional open mind duely impressed...)
After confronting the attitudes in the AG thread for so many years, I still can't explain it, and I'd be less than honest if I said it wasn't extremely frustrating and, at times, just plain hurtful. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Some of us are just complex individuals . . .
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Although I understand what you mean..
"and I'd be less than honest if I said it wasn't extremely frustrating and, at times, just plain hurtful."
When confronted with "the attitudes" I just "consider the source" and move on. After all, it's their loss. |
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Location: Indiana | Granted Miles.
And obviously, since I didn't post in the AG thread, I find it relatively easy to ignore online blogers.
But it's a bit harder to swallow when the conversation is face to face and it's clearly intended to be a personal and/or professional insult.
Still, I find a well timed covert de-tuning can bring some quiet satisfaction. :) |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I just stand up, strum, and drown them all out.
Then note; "strange how my leads cut through the 7 of you strumming....."
oh, and; "Pass on the tuner. I did that last week." |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Brad, the lines between complex, mysterious and just plain weird are often blurred. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I'm finding that the older I get, the less I give a fock what anybody thinks and I'm less and less willing to spend significant portions of my remaining days fighting over personal opinions that in the grand scheme of things don't mean a damn thing to me. Priorities are family, friends, finances and my personal pursuit of happiness.
Dave |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Sometimes age is a good thing. I just hope I don't get as annoying as my father. I'm getting closer. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Well said, Dave. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I agree with you Dave and I've had to live with this longer than any of you.
It's just that this got through the force field and really pist me off.
Miles, that slow dance with a greased pig, don't forget to put the lipstick on it before the dance begins. And watch out, DrDave might want to cut in just when you "get it all working right"
I don't know if he's a Taylor guy, he seems like a hardcore stove-knitter Martin guy. I only threw in the Taylor bit cause I don't happen to like them and to use it to make a point. |
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Location: SoCal | I'm a bit ashamed that I got into it with ol' DrDave. Something about him just pushed my buttons and the more I got into it, the more I felt that it was the right battle to fight.
I was amused that he "resigned" from the board but kinda disgusted by all the members over there that pleaded with him to stay. It is possible to carry "being a nice guy" too far..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | yes |
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Location: Tennessee | And can you imagine the scene involving that guy lugging his 6 Taylors over to Beal's place to prove how much better his gits are than Beal's? It would be game over after the first guitar out, which would probably be the 84C.
"Boy, that 39 D18 sure sounds crappy compared to this Taylor". LOL. |
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Location: SoCal | Well Bobbo, a 39 D18 is just an old crappy guitar. Compare it to a nice new shiny Taylor and there's no comparison...... |
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| Jonmark! Luv the covert Detune! That is a great visual, especially if you start playing before he can figure it out. He'll have to go diving for a tuner.
But in a room of Taylors and Martins, you know the guy with the Ovation is going to get blamed anyway. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | You guys are funny.
Actually I sent the guy with 6 Taylors an email and said I hoped I didn't really piss him off, I was just using that as an example. Turns out he has lots of other guitars as well, lives in the DC area and is more of a repair guy than a player, but just loves guitars anyway, sound familiar? |
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Location: Keller, TX | I dunno.
I just read that whole thread.
Seems to me that Mauvais guy doesn't now jack about guitars! :D
I won't discuss my opinions of psychiatrists/psychologists..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I think you're right Doc, but don't tell anyone, I've got half of them fooled....... |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
I think you're right Doc, but don't tell anyone, I've got half of them fooled....... Yeah. Right...... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | SO??? you're just in the other half. |
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Location: SoCal | I'm honored. I think..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | So, what are we going to do next week? |
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| Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
So, what are we going to do next week? Awhile back I had an idea similar to what Mike has done (great work, Mike, I'm gonna post up my opinions later today), except I thought to deliberately misidentify which guitar was used for a particular clip.
Then, after the nay-sayers on AGF had all chimed in about how "yep, the Ovations sure sound like crap, especially compared to the Larrivees and the Takamines" etc., etc., I would then reveal the real guitars, so they'd see that the one I had originally said was a Larry or a Tak was really an O and vice versa. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | I wonder if there is a flash widget out there you could use for these comparison tests.
I have this idea of being able to sort the individual clips from "best" to "worst" by sliding little buttons around. If you click on a button, it would play that clip.
Once you get them the way you like them, hit "Vote" and it records your ranking...and perhaps also reveals the guitars in question.
Any of you technology wizards have an idea how hard that would be to do? |
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Ovation question on the AGF