|
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | We all know how easy it is to play an Ovation, but if that's all you play, is that a good thing?
I had my 'beater' at work and had to bring it home. (Not an 'O', but really good action - easy to play.)
So one of the guys bring in his piece-of-s#!t classical guitar (with steel strings :rolleyes: ) and it's really hard to play. (1/4" action, holds a tune like a banjo.) Anything 'fancy' became muffled mis-hits.
I played one of them (badly) for about 15 minutes and although my finger tips were fine, my hand ached so much from barre chords that I couldn't continue.
My point??? :confused:
Is it good practise to have a P-O-S guitar to play occasionally to 'keep you honest'? More of a physical workout than 'practice'. Would that make me a better all-round player than to just play an 'easy' guitar all the time?
The reason I ask is, the guy who owned it could throw down some pretty cool blues riffs way up the neck and it has a 1/4" action! :eek: Totally beyond my abilities. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Good Question...
My 1718 came to me with 1/4" action and very heavy strings, so apparently the previous owner played it that way.
(It was in tune and ready to play when it arrived... go figure)
Anyway, I lowered the action but put EJ17's on it. (.013 - .056)
It is good exercise for me to play it.
But my real exercise is playing my 12's!
The strings are easy at the start, but after awhile my hand gets tired just cuz there is so durn many strings. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Yeah, but imagine how much better he would be on something playable. When I was working at Ovation, I played hundreds of O's a day, and yes I got spoiled. I had a beautiful Gibson at home, and I still played it a lot, but I admit, the technical stuff was a LOT easier on an O. Nothing wrong with that. If a guitar is easy to play, YOU sound better, and if you have a good sounding Ovation, why play anything else? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | But wouldn't practicing on a p-o-s make you stronger and more precise when you're playing your 'proper' guitar? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | With some musical instruments the good ones are harder to play (e.g. trumpet - don't ask me why). I don't see why a good guitar should be harder to play though. To me it is a mark of the quality of Ovations that they are so easy to play. I recently played a Celebrity Deluxe (that was in a shop that sets up their guitars before they put them out - Guitar Bros) and it was just as easy to play as my Adamas (Doesn't sound as nice though).
I have never played a wood box that is as easy to play as my Adamas or my old Legend. I'm not saying such a thing doesn't exist, just that none of the ones I've tried ever came close. In fact, I rarely bother trying them anymore. Why should I work hard for something that can come easy on a good guitar. If I want a workout, as OMA said, that's what the 12 string is for. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | No.
Your technique would be limited by the poor response of the guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Greencastle, IN | I wouldn't let some air out of a perfectly inflated basketball just to make it harder to dripple. It certainly wouldn't improve my technique. I've known some guitarists with very powerful hands and high action doesn't bother them. They probably dent the fretboard. I have an awesome 99" Taylor 810ce that sounds fantastic. But I played an "O" last week and the action was like my electric so now I am looking at an Adamas. Any thoughts on which Adamas I should look for? By the way a pro trumpet plays harder because the bore size is larger thus requiring more air. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | Hobie, I'm really liking my 2080. I think Al (alpep) has one for sale at a rather good price. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Hobie, You'd be hard pressed to find a bad Adamas (although you may find one that's been treated badly) so you should be happy with whatever you find. A general consensus around here is that the textured tops sound better than the shiny tops. However the range of new textured tops is rather limited (i.e. the 2008 Collectors) but some good second hand bargains can be had for other textured tops on this list and (to a lesser extent) on Ebay.
Ultimately, your budget and whether you want to be the first owner of something will sort your choices down a bit. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | "But I played an "O" last week and the action was like my electric so now I am looking at an Adamas."
Dave, that's m'boy
(Oops I hope you are not African American)
AJ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Nah, I was lazy before I even took up guitar.
AJ, the book showed up yet? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Hey Phil, yes the beginning of the week
AJ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Gary Moore had a brief flirtation with PRS guitars but went back to his Les Pauls because "the PRS was too easy to play." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | NO |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I'm not bothered much switching between guitars with minor differences in set-up, string size, scale, etc. Within the past two or three years, I have finally "discovered" the benefit of playing wider necks, something I avoided during my first 45 years of playing. What I do find challenging, however, is 12 strings on a 1-11/16" neck (Hurricane). Anybody with slightly large fingers need not apply. Even with small hands and small fingers (that's me), your fingering technique must be absolutely precise. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | Nah, because you have to keep fighting the bowl rolling the guitar upward. Or, if you have a contour bowl, you fight to force it to roll upward because that's what you're used to. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Double edged sword - Yeah maybe playing a guitar with buttery smooth action could make you a little lazy. But if a guitar is "difficult" to play you ain't gonna be highly motivated to play it, so what's the point? Play what's comfortable, and play it often, that's my advice.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by First Alternate:
If you have a contour bowl, you fight to force it to roll upward because that's what you're used to. Amen!
To agree with Dave, it is often pointed-out that a cheap guitar with crappy action is why so many beginners give-up. Can't finger it right, so it sounds like crap and they quit.
Lately, I have been using my electrics to learn a new riff cuz it is Easy. Then I got it down when I play the Real Guitars! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | sorry I just don't get this. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by alpep:
sorry I just don't get this. Me either. I've got guitars with better action than my Ovations but that doesn't make my O's harder to play ... just different. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | I'm with Al and Bobbo on this one. I don't get it. With any quality guitar you should be able to set it up to play easily. Is the point of this discussion that really great guitars are hard to play or have to be hard to play to be great? If a great guitar (and what defines great?) is hard to play then it should be taken to a good guitar tech and worked on.
There's no way I'd spend a lot of money on a guitar that was a POS to play. This discussion makes no sense whatsoever...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I think the point is:
A Good SetUp is Important! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | For those that "don't get it", did you read the first post? It's as clear as my limited intelligence allows.
The point? I think my playing is lazy coz my ovation is set up so well and is so easy to play.
This was made even more clear for me when I saw myself playing 'dust in the wind' on a video clip recently. I could see that I was playing mostly correctly, but geting lots of muffled and missed notes.
I was wondering if a guitar which was more difficult to play, not impossible, would make me concentrate more and strengthen my finger.
Paul, who said anything about spending lots of money?
It has nothing to do with round backs or contour bowls either. It relates to neck action. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by muzza:
I was wondering if a guitar which was more difficult to play, not impossible, would make me concentrate more and strengthen my finger.
I expect it would do that.
At the very least it would be a character building experience - didn't one of the ancient philosopher dudes say something to the effect that true knowledge can only be attained through suffering - so with a POS to practice on you should be well on your way to some form of enlightenment..lol
I picked up Roy Buchanan's guitar once - the action was very high and it was a bit of a pig but he seemed to be doing OK with it..lol |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | The problem with a high action is that while it strengthens your fingers, it may lead you to press too hard on a note and cause that note to go slightly sharp. Also, it may cause you to have to lift your fingers higher, thus making a longer journey from string to string and, ultimately, slowing you down.
Frankly I can inflict more than enough finger pain on a well set up Adamas with extra light silk & steel strings. When practice time is limited I try and focus more of it on things that are hard, which works the fingers harder anyway.
Personally, my fingering gets dodgy when I jump around too many different things in a practice session. In recent months I have been focussing on a really narrow range of things and doing them over and over and over and over until I will eventually eliminate any noticeable buzz or mistakes. In the past I mainly did "near enough is good enough" and then moved on to something else. The result was a lot of stuff that was passable, but nothing good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by The Artist (FKA Richard):
In the past I mainly did "near enough is good enough" and then moved on to something else. The result was a lot of stuff that was passable, but nothing good. Thats where I'm at now. :rolleyes:
Actually, that's where I've been at for the last 5 years. :( |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | Near enough is good enough -- she'll be right, mate....isn't that the attitude that made the land down under what it is today? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | What? A land full of mediocre guitarists?  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| There's no need for you guys to beat yourselves up. That's what I'm here for. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 582
Location: Denmark | I remember a similar experience with a bicycle. I once borrowed (WITH the owners permission) a bicycle for a 3km ride home. That short ride wore me out more than 75km on my racing bike and obviously my answer to the question is no. Train with the guitar on which you wish to be good and dont overstress the hand. It may lead to problems with tendons/tendon sheats. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | From personal experience it is much less painful for me to play my O's--but all O's are not the same, either.
I measured Gertrude's neck against two others once, comparing the distance from fret-edge to fret-edge (the "U" part of the neck) and then across the actual frets; she was 1/8th of an inch narrower at the 12th fret than the one, and 1/4 of an inch than the other.
I play the ones that don't cause pain--Gertrude, Jewel and Jazzey.
--Karen |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | Originally posted by muzza:
Is it good practise to have a P-O-S guitar to play occasionally to 'keep you honest'? More of a physical workout than 'practice'. Would that make me a better all-round player than to just play an 'easy' guitar all the time?
To answer the original question, I think not.
There have been periods when I didn't touch and acoustic for years, just played electric in a band. When I again picked up the acoustic, yeah it was a little tough for a few minutes but I adjusted quickly; i.e., I hadn't become "lazy" |
|
| |
Does playing an 'O' make you lazy?