|
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I heard a rumor that Taylor was going to stert selling Baby Taylors at Walmart. Has anyone else heard this? If so, they have finally found the right market. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I thought it was Gibson that was working with Wal-Mart. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Too bad KMC can't get Applause into WalMart, that would give them a "stepping stone" up to Celebrity and Ovation when the buyers improve and go looking for a "better" guitar.
Roger |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | If true (either Gibson or Taylor or anyone else) this is a schrewd move on their part. Say what you will about WalMart, but I can't think of too many manufacturers who would turn down the opportunity to have the largest mass retailer on the planet sell their goods. This will pump significant dollars into Taylors coffers. Dollars which can be spent expanding factory facilities, increased advertising, signing more endorsees, investing in more developments, etc. Would have been nice to see Kaman jump into something like this with the Applause line. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Maybe Ovation would go with a more "exclusive" outlet, like Costco. I have been watching people by Yamaha acoustics there for the last few years, and yes, people do buy them. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I don't know about the stepping-stone thing. Brand loyality seems to be a thing of the past.
Brief off sides here...A while back I heard a radio interview with a funeral director and a rep from Costco. Costco had started to offer caskets for sale and the discussion was about if that was appropriate or not. The funeral director said, "Well...I do give Costco credit for thinking outside the box.". I laughed so hard I almost drove off the road. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Go to costco.com and search for "gibson". They have a full selection.
Lots of interesting things happening in retail these days. Obviously, WalMart is obliterating their competition. Good for them. WalMart may very well be the best run company in the country.
Jeff |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Omaha:
WalMart may very well be the best run company in the country. ... who just settled a class action suit over not allowing their employees to take lunch breaks as required by law. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Lunch!!!???? You ate yesterday! Get back to work stocking those Taylors. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Avondale, AZ | Cardinalflyer Maybe Ovation would go with a more "exclusive" outlet, like Costco. I bought an Applause at Costco about a year and a half ago. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Yes, Applause is sold at Costco. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Costco is an "exclusive" outlet? Hahaha. WPOA: Never buy a shirt at Costco unless you're OK with seeing 140 other guys all wearing the exact same shirt the next day.
Gibson-branded crap is sold at my local Target. Please, Ovation, DO NOT go this route. It's hard enough for most people not to think of roundbacks as toy guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
Never buy a shirt at Costco unless you're OK with seeing 140 other guys all wearing the exact same shirt the next day. Why not? Its not like I'm putting myself up for Homecoming Queen.
Jeff |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | I must be a dedicated follower of fashion. And besides, we like our Queens here in California. ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | "we like our Queens here in California"
well, maybe up in the bay area...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 382
Location: USA | I do believe this is not a joke...I had heard something along those lines...
http://www.myspace.com/styllheartandsoul |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | I like Costco shirts. It's not like everyone doesn't already wear blue or white shirts. The only difference is all my partners' shirts cost $45 and mine cost $15. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Where else can you get silk hawaiian shirts for $15? But then I've got between 30-40 hawaiian shirts so they all get rotated around and each shirt only worn about once every 4-6 weeks.
But I'm always on the lookout for more..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | In today's world you have to be in one of these type stores if not several. You gotta know the competition is going to be there. The trick is to figure out how to do it in a way that gets you the sales and promotes your reputation at the same time. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Doesn't seem to hurt Ralph Lauren |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Avondale, AZ | from Woody: Where else can you get silk hawaiian shirts for $15? Hawaii ??? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4827
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Hate to be a stick-in-the-mud, but.....
I have a lot of friends with small retail stores. Granted, most of them are actually good enough at what they do that the big boxes don't make much difference to them; they know their product, customer, and service better than the big boxes. (Just like Sam Walton recomended in his book. Good guy really, it seems.)
But I support the small merchants in my small town. They provide service where I want it. Order in what I want if they don't have it. Support local teams and charities. Besides, downtown would look pretty sad without them.
My 2 cents. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by OldLiverJones:
from Woody: Where else can you get silk hawaiian shirts for $15? Hawaii ??? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Avondale, AZ | Picky Picky. Real silk. The 3 I got from Hawaii for under $20 are all faded and lost most of their buttons. I still wear them and let my hairy beer belly hang out. This look really attracks the ladies. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Fillhixx, I agree and support the little guys when ever I can but it is getting to where there are some things that are just better to get at the big box stores. I don't really like it but that's the way the world is moving. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 25
Location: Kirkland, WA | During the past couple of years Costco has moved from close-out home electronics and dead brands to mid-market plasma and better audio products. Sadly at a time when specialty stores struggle to stay open. The Good Guys are going and some say Circuit City is in trouble. The message here is that the consumer is starting to buy luxury products the same way they buy bottled water, paper napkins, or other commodoties. The question is will we eventually buy guitars and other music products from Costco or Walmart? I hope not...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | The Costco here in my parts were selling BMWs the last time I went through there.
By the way, nice collection TJ. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I wouldn't mind seeing Costco at least move up to the Celeb line. They sell some good stuff.
By the way Tahitijack, go to the Costco on Crown Valley in Laguna Niguel. In the optical department, you'll find a heavyset guy with think dark hair combed back. He's one of the best guitar players I've ever heard on stage or off. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by tahitijack:
The question is will we eventually buy guitars and other music products from Costco or Walmart? I hope not...... Get used to it.
The 'traditional' retailer was really only selling one thing: Information. Time was when you knew that the guy at (for example) the local camera store knew more about cameras than you did. So, you went to him, talked with him about what you wanted to do, listened to his recommendation and made a purchase.
Does anyone here (as in on this web board) really get most of their information about products that way anymore? I doubt it. Not that we get no such information, but I'd wager that every one of us goes to Google (etal) first when we need to buy something new. Thanks to the internet, we now have access to literally thousands of informed experts regarding just about any product we might want to buy. Awesome. This board itself is part of the new system. Seems like half or more of the posts are questions about which product to buy.
So, what can a local retailer offer? Not much. If you are selling mass market products, then the Wal Marts of the world will kick the crap out of you based on their buying power and superior distribution network*. If Wal Mart doesn't get you, then Amazon (and FedEx) will.
Are local music stores doomed? Could be. There are plenty of people who will insist on playing an instrument before purchasing. That makes sense, although it is interesting to consider that Ovation probably probably encourages "sight unseen" purchases with their emphasis on technology and modern (and therefore consistent) manufacturing techniques. Also, there will always be a market for rental band instruments. Hard to say if that is enough to maintain a store.
So, what is lost in this? Probably the atmosphere of the guitar store is the first to go. I know I would miss not being able to go in, grab a guitar and pluck away for a while. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I suspect that something like a "Barnes and Nobel for Musicians" kind of thing might work. Maybe we are back to the beatnik era coffee shop? Who knows. What I do know is that if there is a demand for it, it will happen.
Sorry to be so long winded!
Jeff
* If you want to see an example of things done right, take a look at Wal Mart's distribution system. If GM made cars as well as Wal Mart distributes merchandise, Toyota would be begging for mercy. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Never been in a WalMart . . .
. . never will. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | Most people would never buy bread and milk in a shoe store. So why buy a guitar in Wal or K Mart. I like the service you get when you build a relationship with a mom and pop store. Just my 1/2 cents worth.
Pauly |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | If the Shoe Store was more convenient than going to the grocery store, and if the Shoe Store sold the same bread and milk for 15% less than the grocery store, I'd buy my bread and milk there. Why not?
It's a consumers world (at least in this country). WE are in control. Yes, I do support many small shops because of the service they provide and it makes me feel good to be "giving back to the neighborhood", so to speak. But there is nothing inheriently "evil" about the big box store. My local Wal-Mart employees probably about 200 people (some of whom have limited job potential elsewhere). Should I boycott the big box and let them close up and put these people out of work?
Cliff, can't wait until the 18th. I'm taking you fro mthe airport straight to Wal-Mart. A large bucket of carmel popcorn is on me.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | . . . I'll wait for you in the parking lot . . .
. . . with the RV's . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by cliff:
. . . with the RV's . . . ...Employee Housing... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Paulcc1:
Most people would never buy bread and milk in a shoe store. Time was when people got bread at a bakery and milk was delivered by the milk man. Not any more.
This is a trend that has been going on for a very long time: Larger and larger retail outlets, fewer and fewer links in the distribution chain. The examples are everywhere: WalMart, Target, Costco, K-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. Before them, Sears, Penney's, Wards.
I hate to sound like I don't like independent guitar stores. I do. I'm just trying to look at the situation objectively.
Jeff |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | In my neighborhood I see sort of the reverse trend. People do very little mundane shopping. I see people getting their food and groceries delivered to their door steps. I think it's called DirectFresh.com. They get clothing, appliances, furniture and guitars delivered to their house. They even get wood for home improvement sent to the house. The trend is still evolving. Though I see a day when, when your SONY robot butler will go answer the door and sign for the groceries that your fridge automatically ordered. I wonder if you can get a robot with big tits? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | It's been done:
Julie Newmar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | I buy just about everything from a guitar store in Montpelier. Some friends of mine wanted to buy me some guitar strings as a gift for Christmas. They know nothing about guitars, so when asked what kind they were lost. And then they said it was for pastor Paul and he knew 1)who they were talking about, 2) What kind of strings and gauge I use. See if that could happen at Wal Mart.
I probably would buy milk and bread at Wal Mart but not a guitar.
Pauly |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | "It's been done: Julie Newmar. "
What was the name of that show? I remember Bob Cummings was in it ("Love That Bob").
We've had a number of smaller guitar and music stores close out here in the last 5-7 years. The most recent was a store called Shadetree Music. It was run by a couple for years and they would put on concerts there. I remember seeing Preston Reed, Laurance Juber, and David Greer there. But while I'd buy from them occassionally, they didn't carry Ovations and I wasn't in a place where I'd spend $3-$4k for something they carried.
The store where I bought Big Blue closed shortly after I got it, and the store where I bought my Crate closed a few years back. There was a store in Garden Grove, Moody Music (no relation) that had been open for years, and it finally closed a few years back.
It's sad because you do loose the information available and the one on one service with somebody who's been around for a while, but other lines (like the forum) open up.
Times change. To quote the philosoper, J.T. Kirk, "Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant Mr. Scott." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | "My Living Doll". |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Try getting a guitar repaired at a big box store.
The way most small music stores survive is via repair, rental and lessons. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Hicksville, NY | My apologies for being naive ... what is your definition of a "big box" store? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | guitar center, sam ash, music 123, musician's friend, etc,
wall mart, k mart, taget, home depot, lowes, etc |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan | one thing i dont understand though is WHY DONT GUIT shops and other specialty shop type places sell related magazines? seems stupid to me not to. also why not get into CD's? T shirts? and coffee? not to make it huge but honestly, musicians like to hang out in guit shops, make money offthem. who wouldnt like a few stools near the checkout counter with a nice cup of coffee? and many musicians would like excuses to stay in music stores longer. I think the reason most of us go to music stores is to find like minded people to chat with, which you wont find at wal mart. i guess my point is that the cure for small stores is to find a niche and stick it good. you cant just think yer the only game in town anymore. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Jkf_Alone:
one thing i dont understand though is WHY DONT GUIT shops and other specialty shop type places sell related magazines? seems stupid to me not to. also why not get into CD's? T shirts? and coffee? not to make it huge but honestly, musicians like to hang out in guit shops, make money offthem. who wouldnt like a few stools near the checkout counter with a nice cup of coffee? I think that's the right question. In fact, I am thinking about putting a shop together that is just like that.
The whole idea is to really accentuate the "community" aspect of a guitar store: A place to hang out, talk guitars, maybe get into some spontaneous jam sessions. Build some rooms in the back to conduct solo lessons. Have a good assortment of accessories, strings, straps, magazines, books, etc. Find the best local repair luthier out there and give him free rent in exchange for a cut of his action.
As you said, make it comfortable. Have a coffee bar. Maybe even offer light snacks or sandwiches.
What would you like to see?
Jeff |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | "What would you like to see?"
Your store here instead of in Omaha, Omaha. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | We happen to have an empty gas station/garage right on a highway here in Colton... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| WalMart in the UK, where they are called ASDA, are moaning and whining to the government to do something about our own home-grown WalMart-a-like, called Tesco, because they can't get anywhere near them and are being slaughtered. It's kinda nice to see the biter getting bit. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan | I guess id just like to see a guitar store ran by a knowledgable business man who has a passion for music rather than a musician who decides to open a shop just because. its alot easier to become interested in music than it is to become interested in business. things to avoid in a specialty shop;
1. empty store syndrom - sparse walls and few products.
2. lack of product rotation- even if you dont sell much, move the product around weekly and ,maybe have 5 - 10 guitars in the back to rotate in and out of stock.
3. inaccurate signing- dont put up a cool gibsion/fender/washburn/ovation poster if you dont actually sell them.
things Id like to see
1. Free lessions with every instrument purchase- offer discounts on rental space to the teachers who do this or an incentuve program. some may even do it for free for the added exposure to potential new students.
2. divide up your stock in this way- 80% mid ranged inst, 5% high end 15% low end. and set the mid end instruments up to play like butter, why not? music stores have slow times and what are you doing during that time?
3.finally, tune all the guits daily and polish them when needed. you dont go to a auto dealership and see dirty cars. so many shops have more dust than instrument hanging on there walls. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan | oh and have an entrance exam for the teachers that are renting rooms from you. no theory knowledge no rento in me casa :p |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Last night I watched some of a news report that showed how much of an investment/presence (and strong-arm tactics) WalMart is displaying in the Chinese manufacturing sector.
Personally, I''d LOVE to see them Crash&Burn, but it'll never happen . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Gotta love Frontline |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | ....I was particularly interested in the segment where Wal-Mart was building a superstore across the street from a glass/screen manufacturing plant (largest employer in the town) they ran out of business buy demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Well at least all those skilled laborers who worked for 30 years at that theretofore healthly plant can always get jobs at Walmart as "Greeters"...hope they don't miss lunch and benefits... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | For all of those who bemoan the passing of small busnesses, go rent "Other People's Money" and pay particular attention to Danny DeVito's speech to the shareholders towards the end of the film. Like it or not, the needs of society change. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Hopefully, they'll be hawking cut-rate legal services from their "SuperStores" in a few years . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | You shopping for another divorce lawyer, Cliff? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan | small business and small shops will never dissapear, they just need to change, get leaner and more saavy. also remember, the smaller you are the more flexable. you can change daily if your customers need it really. the customer service revolution is 30 years old. you try to build a business on that model, it will fail, now its the community/content service that makes small business along with finding some niche. im glad wal mart and other stores like that are around, because it gives some people who need it a good kick in the pants, and some companies that had been eating market share roll up and die, giving more to the small businesses that survive. its cyclical really. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan | oh and think where people bought there instruments from 100 years ago, sears and roebucks and there competitors. there were music stores, but not available to the majority of people. its kinda the same now, just the reasons have changed. |
|
| |
Taylor Guitars Selling at WalMart?