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Location: Chicago | For 30 years I have obsessed over the SOUND on the recording "My Goal's Beyond"; Yes, McLaughlin is the best, but I never heard quite that SOUND on record again. I have an 1117 '74 Legend (24 fret, deep bowl, no electronics). With a good AKG mic I can get THE SOUND from my trusty guitar. But how to play out? I'm afraid to modify my 1117. So recently I got the top-of-the line DiMeola Custom Legend. Nice, to say the least but decidedly inferior acoustic sound. So, my friends, what do I do to get THE SOUND from an on-board, amplified Ovation? I mean the DARK, LUMINOUS, SHIMMERING, COMPLEX, LOUD, Ovation acoustic sound. ADVICE!!! |
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Location: NJ | Augment the on-board amplification with a good, condensor mic. |
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Location: Chicago | That's the point, my 1117 HAS NO electronics. My query was this: in the opinion of the OFC community, which model has the sexiest, closest-to-My Goals Beyond (dark luminous etc) sound when plugged in? |
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Location: closely held secret | Well, how did McLaughlin record it? My guess is he used mics. Whether they're in front or inside, it's the only way to fully, accurately reproduce acoustic sound. K&K transducer systems are pretty good. Or you could spend more and go with L.R. Baggs . |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | He also down-tuned on a number of tracks. |
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Location: NJ | Get a LongNeck. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I was going to suggest alternative tunings...
As for guitars a 1537. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I was going to suggest alternative tunings...
As for guitars a 1537. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I was going to suggest alternative tunings...
As for guitars a 1537. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Somebody PLEASE address the server issues... |
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Location: Southern California | OK...
Do you want fries with that? ;) |
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Location: closely held secret | Stop clicking on the 'add reply' button more than once.
"Have patience, little weedhopper". |
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Location: south east Michigan | I have seen some slow, qwerky behavior here recently myself.
And I don't mean the normal qwerky stuff from the membership. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | It's not me hitting "add reply" more than once..
When I do hit "add reply" (ONCE), I get "Bad Server Response" or the page is just blank...
If I go to the bulletin board...the post isn't there. When I go "back" to the reply post page and then hit reply...will post more than one reply??? |
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| McLaughlin was in a studio - and custom Larry Fishman microphones were his speciality in the mid years, and I think earlier (Larry Fishman didn't appear out of nowhere with a fully formed pup company). Also john McLaughlin has the best technique any guitarist who plays with a pick has ever had. This isn't a matter of opinion, simply of fact. As a single string player nobody has ever been able to play so clean, so fast and with so little pressure on the strings. And he has always embraced the very latest in technology. He is an utter and total musical genius who has admirers from every walk of musical life. When he is commissioned to write pieces for symphony orchestras the soloists who queue up to play are world class and above (Victoria Mulhova for one).
The Al Di Meola guitar isn't worse than McLaughlin's, it's just very different. It's built to cater for a player who attacks the guitar like no other - ask luthier444 who builds his guitars - and listen to the Friday Night album when they compete with each other to show who is the best/fastest guitar player in the world. Their approach couldn't be different.
If your guitar through a good mic sounds like JM, then that's how you'll have to play live.
Welcome to the club.
And the servers are driving me crazy. |
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Location: NJ | The server issues seem to always happen around 4-5pm Eastern. My guess is that there's a lot of businesses on this same server, and there's a lot of EOB traffic snarls.
Happens on our Company Intranet around the same time as well . . . |
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| Happens all hours of the day for me - including early morning when it's bed time for all you colonials. |
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Location: closely held secret | My apologies, weedhopper. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It's hard to find good servers these days!
Good Post Schroeder. |
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Location: North Idaho | ofc forum hosting is picking up bad habits from Ovation's product development division with "object not found" or very slooww to respond |
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Location: Chicago | Thanks Schroeder, very informative. Honestly I don't think McLaughlin ever sounded better than on that 1970 date! The distinction you make between JM's technique and DiMeola's is critical and I had not thought about it. Now, amplified, JM can sound mediocre as one can hear on the "Meeting of the Spirits" (Coryell, JM, Paco) Valentine's Day Concert (VHS). The DiMeola signature Legend sounds very good through my Crate acoustic amp, but it's not the HOLY GRAIL of SOUND that I crave. If you have a moment give me some more detail on (1) the precise distinction between JM's picking and DiMeola's and (2) your best take on mics for live settings: choice, position etc.... |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Boy, you chicago guys are asking alot. We don't divulge these secrets to JUST anyone. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by gregory dobrov:
Thanks Schroeder, very informative. . I have to agree, that was an unusually well reasoned and cogent post.
He must be off the Morphine...or back on the Guinness. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Jeff, you know that to avoid further embarassment, :eek: you can return to your multiple posts and delete them.....leaving only one and making everyone except your post total happy :rolleyes: |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Waskel always sees them. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | He just thinks he has double vision. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | He just thinks he has double vision. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | thought carrots were good for the eyes |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | not when marienated in whiskey :eek: |
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Location: Cicero, NY | well, that just takes the phun right out of it. |
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Location: closely held secret | Wabbits never double post. |
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Location: closely held secret | Wabbits never double post. |
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| First he masters the quote thing and now he posts a picture. Call me Mr Geek.
This picture shows how he does it these days with his Wechter - notice 2 separate pickup feeds and two mikes. The tail block on this guitar where all the electrics are housed is removable! And the guitar is nylon string with a radiussed fingerboard (guess who's got an Ovation just like it? :D ).
It's always struck me about JM that he holds a guitar absolutely straight - he never leans it in to himself. He didn't with an O either.
Serge has got one of these guitars and he absolutely loves it.
Technique-wise Jm starts every run, however fast or slow, on an upstroke. I don't know why cos I don't play with a pick, but all reports say it's important. AdM does the same. If you look at the Meeting of The Spirits (one of my absolute favourite dvds) he holds the pick at what looks like a wierd angle to the strings, although it looks a bit straighter in the pic above. I think his sound on Spirits is beautiful while he's playing reasonably quietly, it's only when he gets aggressive that the farting overdrive sound kicks in, but he is really digging in when that happens. |
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Location: North Idaho | found these questions posted on another forum:
Recently on GuitarPlayer magazine, I found a microphone in his guitar built by you. What is this and do you recommend it to get better sound than piezo? Can I purchase it? Please tell me how to get it if possible.
Please tell me about the 6 independent pick up system on Mr McLaughlin's guitar.
On his guitar, how far do you set the strings from the frets?
A:The microphone is a Crown GLM-200 miniature hypercardioid mic. I buy them from Fishman Transducers, 340-D Fordham Road, Wilmington, MA 01887, tel:[508] 988-0770. List price is approximately $150. This mic requires 15 volt phantom power which can be supplied through a Fishman Blender or amp. The mic signal is warmer sounding than the transducer signal, but it's much more prone to feedback, so it is typically mixed in only to augment the transducer. John uses a Fishman SBT transducer, which is mounted to the inside of the soundboard with pressure sensitive adhesive. The precise location is critical; I suggest starting about 1" back from the bridge, on the treble side. It can take several tries to get the best sound. I actually prefer the Fishman Matrix [hot] transducer for nylon strings. The Matrix uses a flexible transducer film that mounts under the saddle, but in John's case this location is used by a Photon hex pickup.
The 6 independent Photon pickups used by John McLaughlin were developed by Mark Dooley, but are no longer available. I have started using the RMC system pickup in it's place and am fully satisfied with it. I am currently replacing the Photon system in one of John's guitars with an RMC. RMC systems are available from Richard McLish, 1739 Addison #15, Berkeley, CA 94703, tel:[510] 845-9130.
The distance from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the 1st string is approximately .080". The 6th string is set at approximately .095". This is lower than my normal jazz nylon setting of .090" for the 1st, and .110" for the 6th. |
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| Excellent stuff - I couldn't remember the Photon name.
The low setting on the strings will make a big difference to the sound on a nylon string guitar - nylons need to "ring out" and vibrate more than steels to give that beautiful trademark sound. All classical guitars are set up with a big clearance and classical technique is designed to accommodate this.
As I'm typing this Yngwie just came on the radio (skyfm - nice one again Waskel) and he has his electrics set up like a classical guitar because that's how he learned. He thinks that even on a Strat thru 3 Marshall stacks he can still hear the notes ring out better if they aren't set too low on the neck. He was playing his classical on the radio - awesome.
See what I mean about JM always embracing the best and latest technology that he can.
Have you seen any pics of his latest band - JM sitting cross-legged on the floor surrounded by Indian musicians and him with a Godin plugged straight into his Apple Powerbook G4? |
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Location: North Idaho | Haven't seen the latest band, but I use a Godin ACS Slim (see my pics) with a RMC system to drive my Roland midi. The only thing I don't like about the sytem is there are so many wires and couplers that I have learned to unplug and replug connectors about once a year to keep from loosing a string pickup. I use the fishman matrix ellipse (w/microphone)in many of my wood boxes as it does not require drilling any holes in the side for controls. These ought to work great in any round holed Ovation. Anybody tried one? |
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Location: North Idaho | COUNTRYARTIST where art thou?
Serge has several CAs, a Godin, and a Wechter. I'm sure he has some great pickup systems to produce his great sounding recordings. |
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| Serge is probably as good a producer as he is guitar player, which is saying something. Con la Lluvia is one of the best produced albums I've heard in a long time. I don't know anything about his live rig - can you post some stuff Serge?
Everybody seems to love their Godins. I really must try and find one to try. I haven't touched one in years. |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Thanks guys, I have learned more in a day than in a number of years past. I have lots of work to do with the equipment I already own. QUESTION: I have been experimenting with the Fishman AURA and am a little bewildered. It has obvious magic but is tricky to use. Has anyone found a HOLY GRAIL SOUND using the Aura and a particular guitar-plus-soundimage combo? I've downloaded the Ovation file and remain puzzled. Puzzled because I'm pretty sure the odd results are my fault.
BTW I love Con la Lluvia!! Keep it up. It is my only real dream in life to make a fathful CD of my "acoustic fusion" work. Ovations in duet with a ltitle percussion! |
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Holy Grail Ovation SOUND