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Location: Wooster, Ohio | The Ovation Website shows a picture of the round hole lx scalloped bracing pattern. I am curious of what the elite scalloped bracing pattern looks like? Is there a picture out there. Some of you have the guitars. Is it the same elite bracing pattern with some scallops to remove some of the wood?
Steve |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | Found a picture in a an online catalog
http://www.ovationguitars.com/img/pdf/LXCatalog.pdf
It is interesting. The bracing pattern for the round hole and the elite are the same. That is a total departure from the "normal" elite bracing which is a fan style. You would think that the elite would demand its own pattern style since you don't have to support the round hole?
Steve |
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Location: SoCal | My 1773LX nylon string has the same bracing pattern. The bottome line is, it works. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Funny that with all the innnovation around the bowl and bracing, Ovation too, adopts th old Martinesque X bracing. |
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Location: SoCal | Jeff, it's the same basic X pattern that they used in the 1960's.... |
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Location: Scotland | The wasn't a lot of consistency to the bracing pattern in the early days. I've seen quite a few shiny bowl guitars, including my own '68 Deluxe Balladeer, that have a simple X brace and that's it, just the X, no tone bars. On mine the top has pulled no more than you'd expect with regular bracing and it sounds great. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Martin is credited with developing the scalloped X brace w/tone bar confriguration, which is nearly identical to the LX bracing... |
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Location: Scotland | Everbodies X bracing is nearly identical to Martins. If it ain't broke don't fix it. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
Funny that with all the innnovation around the bowl and bracing, Ovation too, adopts the old Martinesque X bracing. |
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Location: SoCal | Ovation tried to do radically different bracing patterns in the 70's and the result was, with the excpetion of the Adamas and Custom Legend bracing, it all sounded like sh*t.
The A bracing pattern that came to the forefront in the 80's was a major improvement, but the X pattern is the cats ass. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | It's great to see Ovation come full circle and return to a bracing pattern that works so well. Next step is to obviously get rid of the multi hole tops, since the arguement that multiholes are necessary to use the most optimum bracing pattern was obviously a bunch of bullshit. Get back to making instruments that people recognize as guitars instead of bowling balls with gay fig leaves glued on them like some bad Thanksgiving table centerpiece. Keep the pastic back if you must, but at least make the face of the instrument look like a freaking guitar. Dave |
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| Who needs Hal? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Oooo, shroed! THAT was a low blow. BUT, I'll work with it since I did sort of deserve it ... How about this, have you ever considered that maybe I actually AM the famous Mr. Jordan ???
Hmmm ... dwell on THAT possibility for awhile. Let's see, I invent a solution (string tubes) to a problem that I also invented (wood dust on my strings). Now THAT's convenient, it's it? And I brag about owning FOUR 1537's but they never actually make it onto the serial number list - the list that I control. Oh yes, definate funny business going on here. Then there was the time that I bashed poor Mr. Witko about his crappy mahogany backed Martins and told him that only rosewoods were REAL Martins. And like a good boy-toy he goes and buys himself a rosewood martin. Yes, all the pieces are falling into place. And toneville? Well shit, I never claimed to have much of an imagination so it's the best I could come up with.
Mystery solved.
Dave |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Standingovation:
Next step is to obviously get rid of the multi hole tops, since the arguement that multiholes are necessary to use the most optimum bracing pattern was obviously a bunch of bullshit. It perhaps wasn't BS then, but its obviously BS now. They are probably too invested in the multi-hole look at this point, so I wouldn't expect to see a change.
Still, I agree with your point.
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| I figure you couldn't act that dumb that long. And I like to think that anyone (but particularly someone who has turned it into a vocation) could come up with a way better line of insults than our friend. There was just no wit or invention. Therefore there was no Witko. |
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Location: SoCal | Wanna bet? |
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| And much as I love my CL and my CA, put together they don't sound as fantastic as the ute. So maybe the bowling ball thing is important.
And although I'm on your side when it comes to centre holes, my experience with the ute had me looking more kindly on the multi-hole. You calling them cheaplets and shitlets merely caused a smile to drift across my wizzened old face. But since we got to the gay fig leaves I've been wearing condoms on each finger as I play (and I'm a finger-picker) and it is completely killing my guitar playing. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Interesting definition of "fingerpicker" ...
Back to reality, let me clarify one thing. Multiholes are FINE on Adamas. I have no problem with that and the frigging U681 is an absolute tonemonster to which I am completely in love. By the way, I peeled the cheaplets off of mine and it looks much better.
My arguement relates only to wood topped ovations. Based on the fact that multi's and centercuts have the same bracing is there a technical reason to have multi holes? I guess one could argue that although both have the same total hole area, the multi has more continuous soundboard in the "meat area" of the guitar. But one could also counter with the fact that centercuts have continuous solid tops compared to multi's which have a reinforcement glued to the soundboard in the area of the holes.
So, I would argue that sonically it makes no difference. Therefor the choice is based purely on cosmetics and personal preference. Everyones preference is valid here. Mine just happens to be that I don't care for the looks of wood topped multi hole guitars with the gay fig leaves. That's all. I own a 1537 and a Book elite strictly for historical reasons. All other wood toppers in my house have center holes. To me that's the way a guitar should look. Personal preference, that's all.
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Location: Scotland | I personally don't mind the look of multihole wood-topped Ovations but generally don't care for their sound. I could maybe live with a good 1537 but still prefer centre holes on a wood top. Now, have you heard the centre hole Adamas they made for about 5 minutes? Conceptually it defeated the whole object of the Adamas soundboard design. What a pointless piece of crap. |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | If the x bracing is the best I would then assume it should be migrated to the Adamas. I doubt that will happen. One take on using the x bracing on both the elite and the round hole is that it is cheaper to have one proven bracing pattern. I am sure it works on the elite but it is hard for me to believe that no sound hole in the middle doesn't give some other better options. |
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Location: SoCal | I would love the opportunity to play an Elite LX next to my 1537 or 87 Collectors. With comparable strings, it would be interesting to determine what sounded best. Or maybe just different? |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | Moody, That is the test. I have played many LXs in stores and when I played the 87 Collectors it just knocked me over. It could be the 20 year old wood or the deeper bowl. But it just makes it and without "Martin" bracing. Maybe it is just in my head, love everything about it. I guess that makes me a fig leaf man, I am sure Dave will forgive me.
Steve |
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Location: Madison, WI | I shouldnt open my mouth in this discussion, I'm in way over my head.
But I've always been of the impression that one advantage of the multi-holes is that they are less conducive to feedback?
That, and I like the look of them better. But that's me. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | I've always loved the look of the multi-holed design. I own 2 Adamas guitars and they sound great. They always draw a lot of attention and people always love to stop and check them out. To me it makes sense. The tone seems to "swish around" inside the guitar before fading away. And the fact that it looks different makes it all the better. If I wanted a "standard" guitar, I'd probably take a much harder look at Martin.
Finally, Ovation and many others place a big hackin' label directly in the center of the round holes which I think is a mistake. I like Ovation's center soundhole guitars but prefer the multi-holes.
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by 45flint:
it is hard for me to believe that no sound hole in the middle doesn't give some other better options. Well, I guess it makes it harded to accidently drop your pick inside...
The debate on multi vs. centerput is pointless. They're both available for a reason. You could argue gloss necks vs. satin, gold vs. chrome tuners, bone vs. plastic saddle, etc. Everyone has their preferences. Now go play your guitars so I can post a bunch of very one sided biased comments without everyone responding, OK?
Dave |
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Location: Madison, WI | Originally posted by Standingovation:
Well, I guess it makes it harded to accidently drop your pick inside... I'm sure this was meant in jest but in all seriousness this is another big selling point on the epaulets for me. I used to hate shaking picks out of my guitar! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | No, I was being serious! The multi holes are definately an advantage because it's harder to drop a pick inside. Another secondary benefit is that the smallest of the holes is perfectly sized to hold your cigarette while you sing backups on the chorus parts. I'm sure that design was not by accident. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Anyone remember the saying that you need to stand in front of a mirror or stand back, having someone play the guitar? The multi-hole, whether wood Ovation or the Adamas projects differently than the center hole.
My wife describes the Adamas as surround sound; the center hole wood top more projected, more as a cone of sound.
Obviously, plugged in alters the audience response based on the speakers and pre-amp settings.
As to AAA spruce, cutaway - I like the Custom Elite over the Al DiMeola II when played as an acoustic.
In addition, good flavor of ice cream. There are a lot of people out there that like the multi-hole. So, give them what they want.
As an aside, I liked the appearance of the 2006 Collectors and the 12-fret CVT Adamas. Don't know if I am ready for the 2080. |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | The less feedback issue is true. I tryed to play my 97 collectors round hole with my amp at church and it the feed back was terrible. Ended up purchasing a sound hole blocker. Used the 87 Collectors today right in front of the amp: no problems.
Steve |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It started with the X and mover to all the V variants and then A bracing. The Adamas was the Quintad style(the name came years after the first design) and that spread through the Elites. Recently the factory has been moving in the X direction again. (why? 1. they haven't done it in a while 2. the R&D people are more traditionally oriented than their predacessors 3. the customers are moving in a more traditional direction, read X sound 4. it suits the new LX configuration 5. it gives the MPs rhetoric 6. you make something up.....)
The point is that things are always changing and I think that's good. A D-28 hasn't changed much at all over the 50-60 years they've been around, OK that's good too, they're Martin and that's their tradition. Ovation's tradition was always moving forward(even if it looks like backstepping sometimes). I would assume that it's still that.
I hope all this makes some sense, if not chalk it up to some guy who took too long a vacation sniffing jet fuel fumes. |
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Location: SoCal | "too long a vacation sniffing jet fuel fumes"
if the sinuses are starting to clear up, you already have the boots...maybe time to climb back onto the saddle? |
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Elite LX bracing pattern.