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Location: Phoenix AZ | I was dinking around last night with a few instruments and have come to the conclusion that our mind has a certain expectation how certain things should sound. If you try to fool it, it fights back and you hear "scramble".
Case in point - I was playing a few beginners riffs from CSNY, James Taylor and Neil Young. Even with my limited skills, the quality of the sound (not the playing) was wonderful on a wooden box Martin. Same skills and played on a very nice Ovation, they just did not sound right. In fact sounded almost a battle going on between the guitar and my ears.
Switch over to some S&G from Central Park, Glen Campbell, Greg Lake and the Ovation sounded great and the Martin just sounded like crap. I really think there is something mental going on here with what our ears "expect" to hear. It has nothing to do with what the guitars actually sound like on their own merits (both would generally be considered very "nice" guitars by almost anyone), but rather how we can place that sound vs. our subliminal expectations.
Just something to think about.
Dave |
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Location: south east Michigan | First it was the "Match the Guitar" brain twister and now it's another brain straining bit of insightfulness from Dave.
Dave is in danger of becomeing the Dr. Ruth of guitars.
That being said...I think you may have something there Dave. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Last weekend when I showed her your quiz, my wife said, "Dave has too much time on his hands." That was before I spent 4 hours trying to solve the puzzle. Now this.
Since my skills are very limited, having missed most of the 80s and 90s musically, I have no expectations of what my guitar should sound like. Of the 5 or 6 Jim Croce songs I know, I always thought they were played on an Ovation and they all sound fine that way. It wasn't until I got his dvd last year that I realized many are played on his other brand. Scarborough Fair sounds great on an Ovation, although I know it wasn't played on one originally when I learned it.
I think your problem is that you bought those Martins. |
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| I know it....Sometimes I think I sound great all night...then someone tells me everything sounded like Shit!
I am just kidding........ I never think I sound great. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Northcountry:
I know it....Sometimes I think I sound great all night...then someone tells me everything sounded like Shit! Don't ask them how you sound until after they have had a few drinks ;) and bought a few for you! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "You are very, very lucky" is what my ears say when I read Dr. Ruth!
There's a definite loop between muscle memory/sound/interpretation/continue. |
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Location: south east Michigan | my wife said, "Dave has too much time on his hands." My wife chimed in too...she said, "He must be awful bored today." |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Standingovation:
I really think there is something mental going on here Dave, I think you answered your own question. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | One, Dave is right.
Two, My wife says the same thing, but she adds that we are all like a bunch of monkeys discussing the finer points of bananas.
So I say to all my fellow apes, ooh-ooh aah-aah! |
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Location: Orange County, California | Originally posted by Standingovation:
I was dinking around last night with a few instruments....If you try to fool it, it fights back and you hear "scramble".... In fact sounded almost a battle going on between the guitar and my ears..... I really think there is something mental going on here....
Dave Dave's been at the Red Bull and Vodka again.... :D :p :D :p |
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| I thought the first line said "I was drinking around with some instruments".
I had a clear picture of dave in a booth with a Martin, three Os and a uke chewing the fat and agreeing that dubya's misunderstood, the brits can't spell and taylors suck. I had to have a couple to keep him company.
I touched on this thing on another thread when I said that once I started recording them, only the Custom Legend sounded like an Ovation ought to. Jeff's ute is a way better guitar, but it didn't sound right when I listened to the playback. We do get to associate sounds with songs, and it doesn't seem right when it varies. |
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Location: south east Michigan | but she adds that we are all like a bunch of monkeys discussing the finer points of bananas.
That's soooo funny and soooo right on.
It seems to me that OFC wives tend to be pretty smart. |
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| I suppose this means standingO is right again. |
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Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by Slipkid:
That's soooo funny and soooo right on.
It seems to me that OFC wives tend to be pretty smart. After I've berated my wife for a year, she seems to be giving up. She gave me some shit for taking the wooden roundback to Arizona and bringing a different O back, but it wasn't too bad. If she buys me a guitar or something guitar related for my birthday, I'll know she has finally given in to my obsession.
She did think that Dave was a nice guy, based on the 30 seconds that she talked to him, so she can't be that smart. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | And the compliments just keep a coming !!! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I think Linda was expecting the worst because I told her you bid $10,000 on the Adamas. With all the sincerity that I can muster, if I had my way I'd have spent the whole weekend trying out every one of your guitars. But you didn't have to post my picture with my eyes closed and the flash bouncing off my bald head. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes, Dave's right. The same thing goes for electrics. Clapton doing the Cream stuff on a strat doesn't get it. There you just get to hear it, what Dave was also doing was touching and playing in addition to listening. Add those two extra senses and it will take a whole bunch of red bull and wodka to get the sound. |
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Location: Chicago | Check out Dr. Ruth's book on Sonic Therapy for Guitarists: "Come Again? Sound Solutions & Ear Therapy For Men of Middle Age" |
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Location: south east Michigan | When I was much, much younger I remember trying to get a Townshend / Gibson SG sound from my Breadwinner. It's like trying to get a cat to bark like a dog. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | And all this time I was trying to sound like Carlos Santana, I thought it was me. |
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Location: NJ | Just speak with an accent . . . . |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by cliff:
Just speak with an accent . . . . I do, but Carlos isn't Polish. |
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Location: NJ | If he HAD been, it woulda' been "Oy Ye Como Vodka" . . . |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Maybe I could play that one. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | This is why most covers suck. "Auditory Habituation."
I make no claims as to Witko's mental stability, however, as auditory hallucinations are a difinite symptom of schizophrenia. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Difinitly. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | and he should know....he's heavily medicated. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Difinitutley. |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | Dave's thoughts about the issue about acoustic sounds and mind games does make sense. Depending on what I'm playing or trying to learn, certain songs do sound better with an Ovation, but not with the Ms. The same can also be said about certain songs sounding great with an M, but not with an O.
Sometimes, it also depends on the guitar model. Since I only have one Ovation, I dunno how certain guitars can sound, depending on the song.
Playing Neil Young songs with my Martins, for example, the HD-28 tends to sound better with his songs that require heavy rhythm strumming or flatpicking, with country/western elements in them (e.g. Comes A Time, Human Highway). With regards to his folk/mellow ballads that could be fingerpicked or strummed (e.g. Needle and the Damage Done, I Believe In You), and acoustic rock anthems with blues elements to it (e.g. Look Out for My Love, My My Hey Hey), the low end Martin tends to sound better (in my case, the DM).
Then again, as Dave mentioned, it's probably just my head playing with me. |
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Acoustic Sound & Mind Games