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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Not that it really matters to me (or probably to any of you, either, because we all love Ovations), but does anyone know how O's stack up in regard to popularity? How are they ranked among the major guitar brands, and have they gained or slipped in popularity over the years? A guy I know (who happens to be a real "wood snob" -- a Taylor owner)says that the lack of really high profile endorsees as compared to years past is an indicator that they're falling back-- there's nobody today of the stature of an Eric Clapton, he claims. As he puts it, "Just a bunch of over- the-hill metal rockers, has-beens and wannabes like Shakira." Then he extolled the virtues of Taylor guitars. I refused to take the bait, said it didn't really matter to me-- all I cared about was how the guitar sounded, and I'd take an Ovation over a Taylor any day. But it did get me to thinking, Out of curiosity, does anybody know how Ovations stack up? |
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Location: SoCal | Define "popularity". Are you talking sales, number of guitars sold, number of artist endorsements? What? |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | All of the above, if possible. That's probably a tall order, because you can compare them to all acoustics (including custom-mades, Taylors, etc.), or just the ones in their "class" -- whatever that might be. Number of guitars sold would probably be good. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | In terms of Sales, I don't know where Ovation ranks in Market Share. But the factory seems pretty busy and I would guess output is fairly steady.
In terms of quality and what you get for your money from Ovation, it's never been better than it is right now. Some of the new LX series, the Traditional series, and some of the new and reissued Adamas are amazing values.
Sadly, Artist Endorsements is where Ovation falls flat on their faces. It just does not exist. An ex-center fielder for the Yankees and a few over the hill rockers. They build some great shit. The problem is that almost nobody sees or hears it anymore.
To most of the guitar world, the days when it was "cool" to play an Ovation are long since over, and it's all due to lack of Artist endorsements.
Dave |
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Location: NJ | Tell your Taylor-friend something (from me):
"Bahahahahah!! . . . . "
(I'm sure he'll understand) |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Hey, Cliff
Actually, if you notice, I just said he was a guy I know-- not a friend! And I already DID tell him something similar-- although it had a little more of an Anglo-Saxon overtone. He sure understood THAT! Next time I see him, I'll tell him what you said. I'm sure he WILL understand.
Dave-- I know what you mean about the artist endorsement thing. When they first came out, just about everybody wanted to get their hands on them. Now you don't see them much. I think we're in the throes of a "wood snob" epidemic. A lot of people rave about Taylors. I've heard three different people playing them (I'm not familiar with the models), and I wasn't that impressed. Two of the three admitted that my old Balladeer sounded better both acoustically AND plugged in. The third one-- who wouldn't admit it-- is the guy mentioned above. No surprise there. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | The Doyle Dykes Signature Taylor that I have is an incredible sounding guitar.
Is it better than my Ovations?
Just a different flavor of ice cream.
but I will say it took a Taylor that retails at 5 grand to compete with my O's and whenever I play the Taylor, I am scared shitless I am going to scratch the finish. With my O's, I just grab it and play the hell out of it. |
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Location: North Carolina | Doesn't matter. If I like the instrument I'll play it. I don't need anyone of any stature to tell me I should or shouldn't. BTW, I also own Taylors and like them a lot, as I like my Ovations. Apologies to anyone: None. |
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Location: GA USA | I was thinking about the endorsement issue a while back as I was looking through Guitar World Acoustic. There were NO Ovations at all, aside from the full page ad. Not a single picture of a guitar player had one in it. Surely there's a current top artist out there who'd benefit from a partnership. |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Originally posted by stephent28:
Whenever I play the Taylor, I am scared shitless I am going to scratch the finish. Yup, that's why I sold my Taylor and bought an Ovation. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Capt. Handles.
Sure there are artists who could benefit from a partnership. Now stop thinkig like Ovation and start thinking like Kaman Music Corp. with Tak, Hamer, Gretch, LP, Toca, Genz-Benz and all the rest as well to market. There's one guy over all this with one budget(yes there are separate product guys for each line, but they have VERY short leashes). The budget is about enough for 2 of these lines, not all, this is a Corporation after all remember. Furthermore it is part of Kaman Corporation and their hot button is return on investment. They also have this coroprate mantra of "Think Lean" which in practice usually winds up being a strangle hold on any speculative spending(read planting seeds for the future). Every dollar spent has to be justified by what it's return will be. This is not a fertile environment to develope relationships with endorsees.
Then there is the people side who are supposed to go out and get them but that's another issue already well covered here.
In all it comes down to marketing, click.
What does seem to be happening, thank goodness, is that there is a ground swell of support, although small, that propells the line along. This OFC is one, and forty years of being Ovation is another. It's running on momentum with a pinch of help thrown in from corporate from time to time. Ovation is still airborn but not flying high like many of the competition who are not opposed to cultivation spending to build market share. I doubt Bob Taylor ever wonders what his return on investment is "this week".
Enuf of this. To close my rant I'll say that there is a wonderful book written by a Canadian Woman from McGill University, probably 15 years ago. It's called "Artists, Craftsmen, and Technocrats" It's about the rise and fall of companies, how the Artist's vision gets it started and growing and how eventually the technocrats(read fucking bean counters) strangle everything and kill it.
I read it and was suprised to see the same thing happening at Kaman and I gave my father a copy to read, he told me he didn't have time, give it to ###### and he'd read it. Of course, Mr. #### was the biggest Technocrat of all. Soooo, none of this should be a suprise. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Question: Just how much benefit (what ever that means) is it for Ovation that they are part of KMC. Compared to being a private standalone guitar builder like some of the others ???
I'm not dumping on KMC or anything, just curious. Obviously there are advantages to being under someone's umbrella, especially when it rains. How does a company like Taylor do it? The seem wildly successful, incredible market presence, top artists use them, ... Forget if you like or dislike the instrument, the point is that the company seems to do very well. Same for Martin. How do they do it. And would they be even BETTER offf if they were part of a bigger corporation, like KMC?
Just curious.
Dave
Dave |
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Location: Omaha, NE | How does a company like Taylor do it? Remember, Bob Taylor languished in the wilderness for a very, very long time before Taylor guitars started making a serious impact. Compare to Ovation, which had a very high profile presence virtually from the start. Charlie Kaman was already a very sucessful business owner when they started Ovation. BT was just a kid in San Diego who wanted to make guitars.
My impression of the Taylor Guitar Company is that BT has a singularly correct vision of where he wants to go. The Taylor gestalt is to use lots and lots of technology to produce what is fundamentally a very traditional guitar. While he has no formal engineering education, BT is a true industrial engineer. He understands process and he understands efficiency.
He also seems to have a keen sense of communication with his customers*. The videos on the Taylor website are fantastic. The "Factory Fridays" series is wonderful. This month, they have an extended tour of the neck section, showing the various processes used to build Taylor necks. It is really good stuff, and it seems to be generated by a genuine desire on BT's part to show the world what they are doing. When you buy a Taylor guitar, you get a DVD showing in meticulous detail how to connect the Expression System to a PA, including lots of details on how to setup and balance the PA.
For most companies, if they spent the time and money developing some of the custom machinery that Taylor has, they would lock the stuff away and make all the employees sign non-compete/non-disclosure contracts. Taylor puts videos on the Internet! And even tosses in comments like "these pneumatic cylinders have about a hundred pounds of pressure in them".
In comparision to Ovation, I think it is fair to say that Taylor puts the technology in the plant, where Ovation puts the technology in the guitar. Its an interesting study in different approaches. I have one of each, and like both companies for what they have done.
Interesting thing in terms of popularity: When I play my Adamas at church, I get lots of "cool guitar" comments. When I play my Taylor, I get nothing. I would have thought that to the general public, the Ovation look would seem a little dated, but I guess not.
Jeff
* Of course, the exception here is his behavior re the Taylor Forum |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Jeff, That's one of the most well thought out, well written posts I have ever read. Thanks so much for sharing your insights.
Dave |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Standingovation:
Jeff, That's one of the most well thought out, well written posts I have ever read. Thanks so much for sharing your insights. Doubled up on the meds this morning, eh?
I agree, Jeff. Well done. Gives a good perspective on the differences between O & T. We're just not used to that level of reason and insight around here. |
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| Taylor has a Taylor.
Collings has a Collings.
Santa Cruz has Richard Hoover.
Gibson's got Henry(well they can't all be winners)
Ovation's got? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Why Ovation?
About 1977-80 I had a Friend who was, beyond doubt, an Ovation fanatic. This is where the seed started. In 79 or 80 I picked up my Custom Balladeer and found that I could play clearer and without amplification at Friend's weddings and such.
A long hiatus followed with minimal artistic expression and several bills.
December 26, 2003 I found this place and learned about the technological and design changes that had taken place while I was away. Wow!
Now that I am playing regularly and pursuing some woodworking efforts around the Ovation designs I owe most of my appreciation for Ovations to this site and to the Customer Service people like John Budny! They are my "Personal Contact" that brings it home.
The product needs to be good but it's people that sustain the loyalty! |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Interesting, Jeff. I think you hit the nail on the head. Taylor seems to have a better handle on how to run a railroad. Ovation is too locked into the corporate mode at this point, I think, to have a feel for how to actually reach people. It's all about numbers and the bottom line. Right now, Taylor has the personal touch Ovation had when it first started out (interesting that you mention the detailed instructional DVD. I didn't even get a MANUAL when I got my Ibanez. When I called them, they replied, "No havee manual").
As far as the "coolness" factor goes, Ovation guitar designs are timeless. The different models look pretty much the same now as they did 40 years ago, with minor variations. They'll ALWAYS look slick |
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Location: NW NJ | Slick as butter on the head of a bald monkey. The look is what attracted me to O's in the first place - then I just coulldn't put them down. Add this board and Budny and Co. and I just think there is no reason not to have at least a few flavors of Ovations.
And, in case you can't tell from my list, I REALLY like the look (and sound) of the multi-holes. Gotta find a deal on a single hole to "round out" the stable ... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | You need some variety there, too. 12 fret, wide neck, nylon string etc. At least one of each. |
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| Taylor makes some excellent guitars, but I wouldn't say the bang for the buck is that great (you pay top dollar for what you are getting.
Prestige and market share are greatly aided by artist endorsements. How many Taylors have been sold because Dave Matthews used one? I don't know if Ovation makes much effort, or if they can't get artists without paying out big bucks. It would seem obvious that the endorsement thing should be a huge concern. Any quotes from the Ovation people on this topic? |
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Location: East Wenatchee, WA | I just won over a newbie the other day. A lady who visited our church came up afterwards and wanted to know all about the "guitar" I was playing as she was going to start learning guitar and loved the way my Adamas looked and sounded. She choked when I told her how much (beginners usually do), but I pointed her to this web site to find the best Ovation product in her price range. Her husband told me last night that she had bought an O and already broke her first string (trying to over tighten the High E, but I bet is was from aggressive finger picking...think?).
Anyway, my point being, Ovations are a lot like Religion. You win converts....One Soul at a Time... :rolleyes:
Well it sounds like a good advertising slogan :D |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Good job Jeff. I may have lost a convert. See the thread on the Ultra GS neck in the For Sale section. |
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Location: NW Ohio | Don't post often, although I'm here every day. This topic is of interest to me. My thoughts on this subject are, what goes around comes around. With the exception of Martin, acoustic guitars seem to be trendy. The next big thing. Taylor, Takamine(Iknow they are Kaman)and a host of custom builders are popular at the present time with the artist you see on TV. In the real world such as bars, clubs, and (although not the same category)churches, you see Ovations and Martins. On any given day in my neck of the woods at Put-In-Bay on South Bass Island here in Ohio, I'll gaurntee that the majority of the acoustic artist play Ovations. |
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Location: Orange County, California | Originally posted by Dogbreath:
Taylor has a Taylor.
Collings has a Collings.
Santa Cruz has Richard Hoover.
Gibson's got Henry(well they can't all be winners)
Ovation's got? ...A variety of fine guitars to fit the playing style and accoustic-electric needs of the performing musician or hobbiest, vetran or newbie, from a couple of hundred to several thousand dollars, all with unique voices to fit almost any taste.
And we'll let *almost* anyone in our club, even if they do play and own some Mar-Tay-Avee wood-boxes :p :D I wish the same could be said for other manufacturers forums and use-groups. |
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| If Ovation simply included pics of Al di Meola and/or Kaki and/or Melissa in the ads it would make a difference. It's the association of great (in AdM's case great GREAT) players with a brand that count.
Jeff's point only underlines what W2 is saying - Kaman is run to benefit Kaman in the current quarter, not Ovation over thw next 3 years. If Ovation ever starts to fail they wouldn't hesitate to kill it - that's what corporations do.
Hey Bill - why don't you buy Ovation back? :D |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | What a novel concept Schroeder has! Prominent artists-- people we know-- promoting Ovation guitars! What have we had the past few years? I remember in particular a mean-looking biker with a bandana on his head, someone you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley, talking about how Ovation is his type of guitar. Made me want to just rush right out and buy a dozen. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Been there, done that, bought the T shirt, wrote the book, moved to Florida for the sun, golf and the beach. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Hmmmmm....
get back into the hassles of Corp America
sit in the sun, play golf, relax.....
tough choice Bill....tough choice. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Point of order here:
Shakira is fanastically popular in Latin America
Actually, didn't last summer they change something to do with the stock valuation in Kaman? And since that time, haven't they issued some more models (ie the reissues?). The corporate people seem to be groping for a way to increase market share. You guys make it sound hopelesss. I wonder if I bought a couple of shares I'd get to go to the annual meeting. They must let share holders have a spout off moment. |
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Location: closely held secret | As long as they don't let Moody in. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The company's Recapitalization and the addition of new models are about as unrelated as Hilary Cliton and Bootsey Collins |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Quote from an4340: "You guys make it sound hopeless."
I don't think anyone necessarily thinks it's hopeless-- maybe Ovation's doing better than we think. The problem is that the climate in corporate America these days is not at all encouraging. It's all about "being lean." It's all about squeezing as much blood out of the turnip as you can without putting anything back into it. If you can get one poor schmuck to do the work of 5 people, the bottom line is that much better. If you can get EVERY schmuck in the company to do the work of 5 people, hallelujah!! I've seen it at my day job. Six years ago we were a thriving company with over 500 employees and had our own manufacturing operation. Today we have 60 people and are hanging on by our fingernails. The manufacturing operation is gone and we outsource everything to China. The product is crappy, but that's okay because the cost is low. Five years ago they made a bean counter president of the company. The next day-- Black Friday-- he went through the place with a scythe. Hundreds of people got their pink slips. Then, ironically, he had to hire many of them back temporarily as "consultants" at five times their salary because nobody could do their jobs! He didn't have the foresight to look past the end of his nose; all he looked at was the bottom line-- not whether or not he actually NEEDED the people he was letting go.
And that, unfortunately, is the way things are. We can only hope that it will get better someday. In this climate, it's unlikely Ovation will put a huge effort into endorsements. They'll want to keep the costs to a minimum. |
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Location: Poplar Bluff Mo | Wow, I just figured out who cwk2 is. You and your family sure built great guitars. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Whoa! Hillary Clinton and Bootsy Collins, I'm way off base on that one. LOL. Sheeet. Well, whoever is responsible for the reissues should be on the board. I'm so tempted just to go out and buy a share so I can have a vote. I have to ask my wife for permission. I'll let you know how it turns out. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Rick, happened to me about 5 years ago.
I was in charge of all contracts and purchasing for a 20+ location company in the environmental field. I had consistently (documented) saved the company 2-5% each year from the prior year.
We got bought out by an European company who knew everything better than we did. They cut loose all the mid/upper excecutive positions after picking our brains for about 6 months.
The killer was that after 10+ years, I was rewarded with 2 weeks severance and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. That's when I learned the hard truth that severance packages are a gift and not a requirement. The funny thing is, we were offered a 6 month severance package when they first took over but were told that they really needed us and that we were part of the future.....all a clever ploy to use us for a while and then kick us out cheap.
This really made me wake up and take my head out of the sand and finally go into business for myself (and damn I have a wonderful, good lookin boss!) |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Whoa...I know that some bean counters out there deserve their day in Hades but take it easy on the generalizations, guys. Some of us actually participate in very well run companies and actually help save companies from their own brass from time to time. I've seen my share of companies run into the mud because of poor decisions based on "founder intuition" as much as any accountant's opinion and my guess is that many of you have too. The harsh reality is that many owners find that they're great at running a small company and are very profitable. Then, growth puts them right out of their league, management wise. I worked for one such company. Ran like a well oiled machine until they hit about 100 in staff. At 200, they were hanging by a thread and ended up bankrupt ending everyone's job on the spot.
And, while I shouldn't have to say this, I will anyway - nothing in that paragraph is aimed at Kaman. I'm sure Bill knows more about how that particular company is run than anyone and I'll certainly accept his view there but, in general, all counters aren't stupid people and willing to trade careers for sake of the bottom line. Most are just there to catch that blame. |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I'll have to admit that I have personally benefited from the popularity drop of Ovation guitars. I (and many of you) have had numerous opportunities to buy top quality Ovation and Adamas instruments in the last few years, at super bargain prices. I would never have thought that I'd be able to buy superior sounding and playing instruments for the price these Ovations are going for these days. I'm just wondering when people are going to catch on to this? I can't count the number of people I know who have approached me and asked advice on buying a new guitar lately. Most of them have been prepared to spend 6 bills+ on a new crappy Taylor or some other foreign-made junk. I have had the pleasure of steering many of them to the used Ovations that are so plentiful on line. I've even been able to purchase some for them. When they get these guitars in their hands, it feels so good to see the expression on their faces, to get a top notch American made guitar for less than a junky new one. As was mentioned earlier, even the new reissues are a steal in comparison to their Non-O "competitors" I think it would be wise for all of us to give in to our GAS and take advantage of this gravy-train while it still lasts. After all ... everyone knows the price of GAS is going to continue to go up fast. (: |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Guilty! |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | I guess we could all remember when Ovation was the only game in town in the early days of Acoustic Electrics. Competition produced some very good brands of guitar. My take is that guitar players tend to be conservative, especially acoustic players. Look at the value of early Martins or Gibsons, even thought they may not play or sound very well. They tend to shy away from flashy or innovative type guitars like Ovations. Also, Talyor seems to lean heavy on the type of wood, in their sales promotion. What else could they promote? Again, it who plays them, that makes a guitar popular more than anything. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | To get back to the original question-- do we KNOW that Ovations have dropped off in popularity, or do they just have a lower profile? I don't know; that's why I asked. I'm not sure where you would go to find the info; i.e., sales figures, market shares, etc., and how they compare with years past. Admittedly, you see more Taylors than anything else out there right now. That seems to be the guitar of choice for the purists ("wood snobs") right now, the way Martins used to be.
Stephent28: I went throught that too, in 1989. Worked as a copier service tech at a Fortune 500 company for 11 years, got to the top of the pay range. They came in and started cuttin' heads based on salary, then declared Chapter 13 after all that.
Weaser P: just like anything else, I'm sure there ARE some good bean counters out there. I just have never met 'em! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Weaser is just trying to justify his job as a bean counter.....but we all know the truth ;) |
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Location: Australia | I wouldn't be crying crocodile tears over the Ovation company just yet. Didn't I read somewhere recently that they've sold over one million guitars. Pretty impressive if you ask me.
They're still a major brand (who hasn't heard of them) and the factory seems constanstly busy building what is now the most extensive range of models ever.
You want an old style Legend, Adamas with cutting edge technology, Glen Campbell, Di Meola, or even a slothead ! Deep, mid, shallow, artist or contour bowl and on and on and on.
"Every dog has it's day" is an expression that comes to me. I remember years back when I was involved in the distribution of Taylor. They were a very hard sell, no one wanted them but now they're the flavour of the month and in my opinion the guitars are nowhere near as good as they used to be.
I think Ovation are probably doing very nicely indeed and you wait, one day some up and coming superstar will hit the scene playing one and their profile will once again rise. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Don't tell any of the suits but one of the best things that has ever happened to Ovaiton is the OFC. This is the place where the enthusiasum fire flames get fanned constantly (say that three times fast) There are people from all over the world and from the stories told,They're not afraid to step forward and defend Ovation in the shops and gigs etc. That's the underground or grassroots momentum that keeps things going. Having continual good new product helps. Now all that's needed is a ton of high visability promotion in multiple places.
Hey, ya got the first two. Take what you got and do the best you can. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | W2,
They need to do a few commercials where the guy/gal in the OFC t-shirt comes in to tune the O's and provide some in-shop interventions.
Last weekend in the GC I was trying to have an open mind and try some of the upper costed boxes.
The Takamines won in the "upscale" room, but whilst I was grazing I caught the plot with a Customer looking over high end Martins. (Note: Being ADHD and in a Guitar Center is like having 27 channels on all at once).
He was A/B'ing two so I offered to play and let him listen. I caught that whatever he spent on a guitar would be matched in Jewelry for the Mrs., who was being fairly supportive. He talked about tone and sound and such and I tried to get him to play an EliteT that was right there.
I got that look like I had asked him to change a diaper.
My summary is that he wasn't a skilled player, and he was sold on a concept that would cost him twice what he should pay. If he had grabbed the 05 Collector and dashed off to the Jeweler's he would have gotten his heart's desire and more at a 50% discount!
How can you not try to learn them better??? :confused: |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | If they have the money, they don't care, Woody. You're exactly right; somebody sold them on a "concept" (read B.S.), and they bought it hook, line and sinker. It's like trying to sell a Lexus to someone who's been told he/she should get a Porsche. Ain't gonna happen. High-end Martins are fine guitars, but so's an Elite T. It's just a matter of degree (and $). The problem? No "snob factor." |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I think the "snob factor" is partially a result of artist endorsments. If Taylor has a lot of high profile endorsees and users, the average Joe thinks they must be great guitars. The artist endorsements is what originally made me aware of Ovation. The awareness made me want to play one. Playing one made me want to buy one. It's not that artists are not playing Ovations at all anymore, we still see them and post sightings all the time. OK, not as many artists, and not as many high profile artsts, but they are still out in the public eye. But when you open a magazine and see the ads with youf favorite guitarist saying "this is a great guitar" it drives interest. Nikki Sixx may have sold an Ovation or 2 (or lost a sale or 2), but putting Kaki King or Al Dimeola or other respected artists IN THE ADS would probably generate interst to play an Ovation. The interest will get people play one, and if you play one you might buy one! Of course, if they expect a great guitar they need to find a decent USA model to try, but that's a whole nother rant! |
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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by cwk2:
Hilary Cliton That's wasn't a typo, was it ??? |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | What typo? Hillary? :rolleyes:
.........................................
Anyway folks, Ovations are still really popular everywhere it counts. With us, a goodly number of knowledgable pros, (Al de M*** etc) and even the box git snobs!
All this pissing and moaning sounds to me like nothing so much as a 5'11" man whining about suffering from 'little man syndrome.'
Ovation is one of the largest, most popular guitar brands in the world, of all time. Maybe only a Canadian can appreciate the value of being among the best in the world as opposed to being the best in the world. (that's why I'm here after all! ;) ) |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Ky | "Yup, that's why I sold my Taylor and bought an Ovation."
...........I sold my Taylor & bought 3 Ovations.
The Taylor was great -I bought it at the factory in El Cajon, Ca. I didn't care who played one -I just went into the San Diego Guitar Center, played every acoustic they had in the $2,000.00 price range, and the Taylor seemed to be the best. As I would sooner die than give G.C. any of my hard earned $$, I headed out to the factory, which was only 15 miles away. The factory is fantastic. I even met Bob Taylor & Kurt Lustig. These guys know how to market guitars, and how to run a successful company for that matter. Taylor enthusiasts gradually began to bug me, though as they act like owning a Taylor is akin to being in some exclusive religion for the priveleged. Kind of like a "Scientology for Guitars". They belittle everything un-Taylor, as if it's the unholy "Anti-Taylor." To tell the truth, I was surprised to find some dudes here at the OFC, who own both Taylors AND O's. If one can afford it, that's cool!
The Taylor workshops held around the country I think go a long way to promote their guitars. I would say Ovation (or Kaman, anyway), is a huge, far more profitable company, what with their import business & all. They have not focused on making a religion, they just wanna sell guitars.
I like the fact that Ovations are not extremely "popular". It keeps the prices down. I also like playing a guitar that is different from what all the current "celebrities" play. I recently made a vow (with my wife), to stick with only guitars under $1,000.00. (I used to have over $20,000.00 invested -serious G.A.S.) Ovation, and several other companies today, offer some great stuff in that price range. That keeps it fun and enables me to still keep the important bills paid. |
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March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | Very valid points. I got to take the Taylor factory tour last year, and was so impressed that I had to fight the urge to run out and buy a Taylor. On the other hand, where a good Taylor will run you 2 to 3 thousand, you can get the #47 reissue for $4,000, and that's about the most expensive guitar you are likely to see new from Ovation at all. And, as much as I like the T5 Koa and the 914ce, I'd rather put my money on an Adamas that is far less likely to get scratched and dinged, and blows the other two out of the water.
Now to be able to do both...that's why we live in America, right! :D |
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August 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Ky | One reason I sold my Taylor, was that I now live in Ky., where climatic changes are far more extreme than Ca. I found, with the Taylor, I really had to be mindful of humidity levels, or the action would go all over the place. It would either start buzzing, or get too high. I was constantly having to mess with the truss rod, which always scares me. With the Ovations, I can virtually ignore them -they seem impervious to anything -nothing ever changes.
I know there's still a finish to worry about, and no guitar should be ignored -but the Taylor just seemed unbelievably sensitive to everything. I like not having to worry about a guitar.
Speaking of guys who own both -check out the 2002 David Gilmour concert DVD. On most of the acoustic stuff he uses a Taylor, and gets unbelievable sound out of it. But he also uses a Custom Legend on several songs, including "Comfortably Numb". I think he has it set up with that special "high strung" tuning he uses, which would probably put too much strain on the neck of a Taylor. This is truly a dude that doesn't have to worry about what he can afford. |
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July 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Hicksville, NY | There is no disputing that Taylors are indeed nicely crafted guitars. I must also admit that the playability of Taylor guitars are quite impressive. On the other hand, it's a matter of personal preference and as much as I admire Taylor guitars, they're simply not for me - whether I could afford it or not.
With Ovations, I don't have to worry much about sensitivity issues with regards to changes in humidity and temperature. Heck, I'm having those problems with my Martins right now, especially with the HD-28. Playing an Ovation amplified, I can just plug it in any amp that's available, and immediately have fun with it. That saves me the time and effort to make necessary adjustments.
As an OFCer, I happen to love both Ovation and Martin guitars. With regards to membership with on-line clubs and forums, I prefer the OFC. Peeps can go ahead and criticize our guitars -- tupperware, salad bowl, flower pot, plastic, bicycle seat if turned backwards (I heard them many times before) -- but the camaraderie and musicianship that I share with the members in this virtual musical community is one that is genuine, sincere and quite humorous. At one time, I acquired a Chinese-made Applause that was instrumental in my desire to improve my playing ability, and no OFCer ever criticized it as being of lower quality than the U.S. made cousins.
I used to be a member of the UMGF, but just like Taylor enthusiasts, most Martin owners tend to think that their guitars are far more superior than the others out there. They too belittle anything that's not a Martin ... heck it even came to the point that Martin guitars lower than the 16 series (including the 15 and Road series) are considered to be "substandard" over their 18, 28 (and up) series brothers. As far as the Little Martins and X series are concerned, some even had the nerve not to consider them as Martins because they're made south of the border in Mexico. To make matters more insulting, there were threads where the content of the people's characters were also attacked, in addition to the criticism of the guitars that they own(ed). I say, that's too bad because there are many nice people over there, and all it takes is a few a**holes to ruin it. I left the UMGF for good, and I don't intend of ever going back. Just like my Ovation, I love my Martin guitars, but the UMGF I can live without. |
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Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | Hey all...
I'm coming into this one kinda late - and I apologize for that.
A few dozen posts back, someone made mention that these used guitars can be bought inexpensively.
In my mind (and I may be alone in my mind! LOL)... I think some of basis for the guitars selling easily (at somewhat low prices, overall) is because of the internet - and the fact that anybody that is anybody is on the internet now.
It's simply made it soooo easy to buy and sell. This just wasn't the case even 5 years ago. While eBay existed even back then, it wasn't something that most people had tinkered with until more recently.
10 years ago, there were a few of us on CompuServe forums. But that didn't make it easy to buy and sell like it is now. If you wanted a guitar, you pretty much had what was listed in your local Sunday paper or you went to buy a new one.
Now, we can scour Craigslist, eBay, and a multitude of online forums to find niche stuff like guitars.
So then... I wonder... if more people now are able to move used guitars around easily instead of buying new - maybe the new guitar sales numbers take a little hit more than they did 10 years ago.
Just a thought. (and I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning to be responsible for this. :) )
Just my perpective. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | My wife can blame the internet and the OFC for my purchase of about 10 Ovations in the last year and 2 amps etc. It's wonderful. |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | No doubt, Mark!
Since I wrote that post, another store wrote me back that is willing to sell that black 1778LX for $200 less than the store here so far offered.
I really hate being a snot when buying something like this - because I do want to see stores do OK (over GCs)... but.... $200 is a bite.
So.. there's a case in point - internet makes the prices drop too... competition leans out those profit margins.
Sally
Ovation again shortly ....
AWOL Martin Backpacker (LOL) |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Denmark | Ovations are not very popular where I live. I think I am one of few fans left. They are not sold in normal music stores anymore. Only though a web based discount shop - which I dont trust. Technical support is non-existing. It almost seems like a boycot.
I hope that this will make prices on the second hand market collapse since I have no intention of selling but a strong urge to buy. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | No it wasn't. |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | I'm wondering: Why have the Ovation market guys not kept Al Di Meola as a "Senior Statesman" endorser? He keeps getting better as a composer and bandleader (long ago got past the speed demon trip). His signature model is top-of-the-line Legend, recently upgraded. Al shows up at NAMM regularly playing his O's. What gives? The guy surely commands more respect than the skanky Motley Crue bassist loser! |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | click. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I'm not on the Martin or Taylor boards very often but it seems like they never have the long threads about marketing like we have here. This could be because of our ever growing passion for our hobby or it might be evidence of an unhealthy obsession and the inability to mind our own business.
Or...maybe it's something in between. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Slipkid:
I'm not on the Martin or Taylor boards very often but it seems like they never have the long threads about marketing like we have here. Martin and Taylor marketing are very, very good. This is evidenced by the following examples:
1. What my eyes see in the music stores
2. What I see in magazines (the Martin ad campaign with quotes from famous lyrics written playing Martins is just brillient, I bought a framed one of the 0018 "Roundabout" ad)
3. Top flight Artist endorsements up the arse.
4. What I see on the Martin board. They don't waste bandwidth talking about someting like marketing that actually works well
4. What I see here at OFC, where we go on complaining about marketing, which for the most part is just a giant case of penis envy if you ask me.
Dave |
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April 2005
Posts: 331
Location: San Angelo, Texas | Needless to say we are all big fans of Ovation guitars...and most of us have been around the block enough to have played other guitars and know what we like, and DON'T like, about a guitar. I had a Taylor deal on time, very nice deal, they come to you, they GIVE you the guitar and the shirt and pay you to say something nice. If you are important enough they give you two or three of them. I've seen Martin do the same thing...Ovation doesn't do things that way. Anf Breedlove is doing that NOW in the Christian Music circle. They called me yesterday, said they understand that I am going to start recording again, on my own this time, and wondered if I would like one of their guitars to use in exchange for promoting them...
Not at Ovation...at Ovation, if you like it, you play it, we'll pay you for your time, but not unless you really like the product and believe in it. That's my take on things :)
Needless to say, My 1777LX and my 1866 will be the featured guitars on anything I record :) |
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March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | For 10 years the American public was convinced they needed SUVs and that they were safer. Good marketing can fool most anyone. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | We don't need SUV's?
I thought they were safer... |
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April 2005
Posts: 331
Location: San Angelo, Texas | Sure we need SUV's...how else do we haul all the Ovations around???? |
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November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Mine fit fine
in the back of my truck, as I
Croon a tune
About my good luck, we
pray and play
some abomination, we're
part and heart
of THE OVATION NATION!
:o
Grandmaster fill
:o :o :o
and The Fat Bastards |
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February 2005
Posts: 1132
Location: Parrish, FL | ....part and heart of the OVATION NATION...
Boom chucka boom chucka boom chucka boom! |
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Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | At the risk of sounding like a young upstart...
BOOM CHUNK??? REALLY???
Don't get me wrong, I grew up on country, but if we're going to have a theme song, we might want to consider something a bit more contemporary. :eek: |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Ok how about
Oooog a Chuga! Aoogachewga!
Do the ovation with me! |
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March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | This could get REALLY bizarre REALLY fast!
Something to the tune of "Louie, Louie" comes to mind... |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I Play
A git
It's round in back
And out
the front
It's wailin' fat
Most nights
I play
To stars above
No one hears
About my love
Ova-she-on
Wo oo Oh
Me gotta strum
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Ova-she-on
Wo oo Oh
Me gotta strum
Watch me, watch me now!>....... |
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Just how popular are Ovations anyway?