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Location: At the moment, somwhere in the Mojave Desert | Greeings all,
I have just tonight, discovered OvationFanClub.com. Very insightful! I have only ever owned one Ovation guitar and have owned it for about 21 years. I traded a 1963 ES-335 for it in 1985. Sometimes I regret that trade as I recently watched a ’63 ES-335 go for almost $10,000.00. In any case, I believe I have a unique guitar and after reading some of these message boards, thought it’s story might make interesting reading for some of you. Show's over, I'm up & wired and don't have to be on the plane until 6:30 PM tomorrow. If interested, read on!
About 12 or 13 years ago I was doing a concert in Miami and a guy caught up with me back stage and asked if he could see my guitar. I told him no but he insisted that he had been building and repairing guitars for the better part of his life and that he would certainly “respect it”. With a twinkel in his eye, he said to me, "If it’s what I think it is, you will be glad you let me see it". This got my attention and he appeared to be sober and clear headed so with reservation, I went and got him my guitar. He didn’t even play it. He took it over by the light and after peering into the sound holes for a moment, told me that he wanted to remove the rear cover. He had this very genuine air about him so I decided to trust him. He removed the back with a dime and stuck his hand inside. He looked at me and said “I knew her by her sound”.
He told me that I have one of what was only three Prototype 1537s built in 1980 and 1981 and that it has Hybrid electronics which, had Ovation gone to market with these electronics, would have placed the MSRP of the guitar at about $1,900.00 + in 1981-82. He said Ovation decided against marketing a guitar with this hefty a price tag and eventually released the 1537 in 1982 with lesser expensive electronics and a MSRP of around $1,200.00. It has no serial number nor is there any sign of ever having had any label or sticker at all inside. This man; whose name I have no idea but would gladly pay to find out, told me he was an Ovation employee in the late 1970s and that he actually worked on building my guitar. He held it as if it were his child. My guitar tech/luthier tells me that though he has worked on Guitars for over three decades, he has never seen electronics exactly like what is in this guitar and certainly not in any other Ovation.
A few years later I actually got Charlie Kaman on the phone and he verified that there had indeed been a few prototype 1537s made with electronics that never made it into the stores but did not know where any of them were. He told me he would have to see it to verify that what I had was indeed one of them. He told me however, that if I really did have one, he wanted first refusal should I ever decide to sell it.
This I know… I have read that the 1537s did not sound that great especially when compared to the sound that is available with today’s technology. Mine however, is the best sounding “plugged in” acoustic guitar I have ever heard. I would not trade its sound even for that of the $10,000.00 Taylor PS10ce owned by one of the guys in my band. My 1537 has been “borrowed” dozens of times for recording. The only downfall of this instrument is the resonance sensitivity it has in the 440 MHz range. This sensitivity has for over two decades, hampered my using it live on a small stage in close proximity to other amps or monitors. A set of Ovation “Air-Locks” however, which I only recently discovered (can we say “I could have had a V-8”?) has smartly solved that problem and even though I could should I choose to, play any make and model guitar available on this planet, this old 1537 is now my first choice in any concert situation where an acoustic guitar steel string guitar is called for.
Perhaps however, it would be fair for me to mention that contemporary jazz is my sport and the sound so appreciated which emanates so sweetly from this guitar is mainly that used for acoustic leads, detailed harmonic overtones and complex multi-timbral chording and slapping. I also might add that I have never in over two decades of banging on this guitar through three fret jobs, once even ever broken a string! The walnut fret board shows not the slightest hint of wear. Truly amazing!
What I don’t know is if the part about this really being a 1537 prototype is in fact, true. I have never had he opportunity to allow Charlie Kaman to inspect it. He is perhaps the only who could genuinely appraise it. Alas…
In the meantime, I continue to play and enjoy watching people eat their smirks once the music begins. |
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Location: Tennessee | Wow, great story. Could be something very special indeed. Tell us more when you get a chance. There's a cat on this board who spends a bit of time in the north part of your state and might be able to shed some light and insight into what you have.
Welcome to the board! |
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Location: SoCal | Bobbo's right. Bill would know the guitar. Nick Mackin, who spearheaded the 1537 project is also in Florida and would know the guitar as well.
What inlays are on the neck? I always thought there were 2 prototypes (Bill has one -- I've played it--, and Glen Campbell has the other) and both had inlays based upon a necklace owned by Bill's wife.
Erdaram, do you have photos of your guitar? Possibly on a website?
This is a great story. Reading it is one of the things that's really fun about this website.
As I recently posted on another thread, acoustically, my 1537 is great. Plugged in, well, the electronics are almost a quarter century old and not great. Obviously, at a great cost, they could have been better.
Also, Erdaram, welcome to the board. Hope you have a good time here. |
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Location: Keller, TX | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
There's a cat on this board who spends a bit of time in the north part of your state and might be able to shed some light and insight into what you have. Yeah, but would you trust him with YOUR guitar? |
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Location: New York, NY | Erdaram, I'd love to see a picture of it if you've got a digital camera!! |
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Location: boulder | welcome, great story. What type of electronics could it have? inquiring minds want to know...peace |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Yeah, I'm curious what kind of electronics in 1981 could cost $700. more than the adamas 2 knobbers ??? Must be really special. Dave |
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Location: Midland, MI | I think pictures are in order. |
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Location: SoCal | Bill, have you seen this thread? Any thoughts? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Pictures? A better description of why this is so different. What did the guy look like? |
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Location: At the moment, somwhere in the Mojave Desert | Hi,
Wow, so many questions! I don’t have much time so I'll do the best I can.
The Inlays: They look exactly like all the photos of the regular 1537s I have seen in photos here and there. Little kind of triangle shaped pieces of light wood bordered by about 1/16" of black around them.
The Electronics: Looking inside there are just two small black boxes with wires sticking out of them. There are two wires going into one end of the bottom of the bridge. There are two inputs, one mono and one stereo just like all the other photos I have seen. It does not appear that the little boxes can be opened.
Photos: I am on the road wih a laptop and though I have a digital camera, I carry about 5 4GB compact flash cards and don't need/have a reader with me. I'll be home about the 15th and can get some photos posted. I'll ask around though, maybe someone here has a reader.
Serial Number: I have been inside the back with mirrors and lights. There is no serial number anywhere I can find. There is also no sign of there ever having been a sticker or tag pasted inside. I have not had the neck off so I don't know what is under it.
The Mystery Guy:
OK, so about a dozen years ago, he was maybe 45 ish, slight of build. I am 6' 2" & 200 LB so maybe he was about 5'8" ish around 165 LB. Plain non-distinct longish clean shaven face except maybe he hadn't shaved for a day or two. He played the guitar VERY well. He played for me a very unique version of Bill Evan's "Waltz for Debbie" that I was very impressed with and will always remember. Light brown or dark Blond hair receding hairline short in front, long in back MAYBE??? Green or Blue eyes but not dark eyes. I remember big hands with long skinny fingers. Very good but not great voice… maybe a tenor. No specifically distinguishable accent but his voice bordered on the outer edge of raspy. So.... raspy but not real raspy. That's all I can remember.
Do any of the guys you are talking about fit that description? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The electronics sound like standard stereo 2 knobber. I still don't see what's different about this one. The photos will clear it up. Dave |
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Location: At the moment, somwhere in the Mojave Desert | Yes, The more I read and research on this guitar, the more I think maybe I only have a regular 1537 however, the mystery remains as to who that guy was 12 years ago and why and how does this guitar sound so phenomenal?
Just tonight, I bought another 1537 on eBay solely for the purpose of being able to compare the two side by side. If you are interested, the auction page is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7410056759&rd=1&...
Thanks for everyone's interest and input!
Strange but true...
Another funny story about the durability of the ovation… In about 1979 I played for about a year with David Lubin. Back then he played an Ovation 12 string (No idea what model). After practice and a few beers (OK maybe more than just a few), he had a habit of going out back and literally riding his guitar down a grass hill. The guitar didn't even go out of tune! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | This might not be a fair comparison. What color is your original 1537? If it's natural, then all bets are off. For reasons nobody seems to be able to explain, the sunburst ones sound significanlt better than the naturals. I think it has something to do with the dark paint towards the edge of the soundboard. It tweeks the resonance frequency just slightly and the results are amazing. You'll like the sunburst one better, I gaurentee it. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | You know, the other way to date your guitar (man, that sounds kinky), is, where's the battery. On the very earliest ones, wasn't it by the rear hatch? On the later 1537's it was moved up by the knobs.
Don't listen to Tups. He's biased beyond belief. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Paul, I don't know about the battery being near the hatch. I thought on dual box 2 knobbers it was always inside the second box. I could be wrong. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | On the very first ones, the battery was in a different location from where it is on yours and mine. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
... the battery was in a different location from where it is on yours and mine. I ain't got no stinking battery. My 1537 is known as the "Dr. Raskins" of the elite line.
Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Oh that's right.... you striped your poor guitar nekkie.... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Oh that's right.... you striped your poor guitar nekkie.... I just removed the parts that were no longer needed. Kind of like a vasectomy. You can still fiddle with the knobs but they're not really functional. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Maybe you think of yours as just a knob....... |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Originally posted by Tupperware:
You can still fiddle with the knobs but they're not really functional. Sounds like Grandpa's talking about Grandma again. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Hybrid electronics ,well now ,that could mean radio valves and transistors are employed ,there is a japanese guitarmaker called TAKAMINE who actually makes those,the valves are operating on low voltage, it is called coól tube technique and for the technically inclined, the tube used is a 12AU7 (a rather ordinary radiotube easily obtained from radio shack)the models I know of are TAC11C (around 2000 usd ) and PTO5CT (around 1600 usd ) it is not clear to me wether they employ transistors as well,but I deem it likely,now,we all know that charlie kaman and his people are barrier breaking pioneers ,but that they would have foreseen that it would be "in" to use radiovalves once again(bear in mind that ERDARAM mentions 1985, a time when radiovalves were deemed obsolete)is truly a tribute to the folks at OVATION .(if only they would send me a maplemarker for the volume control on my 1537 wich sadly is missing) :) |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by V-elite:
(if only they would send me a maplemarker for the volume control on my 1537 wich sadly is missing) Have you asked them? |
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Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Originally posted by Waskel:
Originally posted by V-elite:
(if only they would send me a maplemarker for the volume control on my 1537 wich sadly is missing) Have you asked them? |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Well, I did E-mail them,and received a cordial reply of mr.Andy Schlosser ,who informed me to get in touch with the importer of Ov`s overhere,now,this is a shaky situation as the distribution network is being overhauled,so the advice offered previously (finding a piece of maple and cutting it to shape) deserves some serious attention,sound thinking, thank You Jeff :) ... or maybe a piece of white ash... |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Erdaram,
Does your 1537 have a pan-head screw in the waist on the same size as the knobs?? |
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Location: SoCal | Per numbers that Paul has, my # 301004 is a pre-production.
The battery box on mine is not mounted near the access panel. It is not secured by a screw through the bowl. The battery box is affixed (glued ?) to the smaller box which is attached to the tone knob. |
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Location: Colorado | As a person who got his unique guitar's identity blathered about here - then confirmed at the mother ship and by CWK, I encourage you to post pictures. Bill - did they put numbers on the braces near the bridge on these like the slotheads? Bill - you still got the 1537 you casually trotted out to me at the factory - and asked - was this what I was looking for in Atlanta - nice guitar.
ML |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | no numbers on the braces of the elites, unless Nick put them there. The 1537 with the necklace inlays is still at the factory, hiding in the back room! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I would love to see some pictures of this guitar in question. My suspicion is that it's just a normal 1537 cause nothing this guy says rings any bells, but that doesn't mean it's not a unique guitar. Let's see the proof.... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Necklace inlays???
I'd like to see some pics of that one! |
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Location: Colorado | 28 - it was stunning - I'll tell you the story Tuesday...I haven't had the heart or guts to ask Bill if he'd ever sell it...in fact - I'm not even sure if it's his to sell!...But that particular guitar is fabulous for anyone's collection - even the factory's.
ML |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Jeffrey D,
Send me some real or found pictures of your knobs. It sounds like an interesting Grail to find!
...or make! |
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Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Originally posted by MWoody:
Jeffrey D,
Send me some real or found pictures of your knobs. It sounds like an interesting Grail to find!
...or make! You've got mail. It's not the knob, but the little pointer that seems to be missing on many 1537's. I sent you a photo I found on an ebay guitar that looks correct. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Maple veneers cut like the Elite inlays, toned to vintage hue.
Nuttin to it! :rolleyes: |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | "Nuttin" seems to be the key word around Mike... :D |
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Location: At the moment, somwhere in the Mojave Desert | I am in receipt of the 1537 I bought on eBay for comparison purposes. I actually met the seller in Miami and picked it up from him in person.
He was right, everything he said was wrong was indeed wrong... chips, scratches, string buzz and the electronics. When he said there did not appear to be any neck problems however, he was mistaken. The neck is warped in one direction on the low side and the other direction on the high side. Tightening the truss rod fixes one problem but exacerbates the other. My tech who has the guitar at present, says there is a possibility that it even a heat pres won't do it any good. He says it probably will never be a lead instrument because he does not think the action can be set low enough.
In the meantime, I asked him to look at the tronics so I can make a determination as to whether or not it even sounds nice enough to warrant throwing more money into the neck and cosmetics.
This brings us to the big question... Is the 1537 I began this thread about really special when compared to a standard 1537? I will have to confess that the answer, in my best opinion after comparing them side by side, is a disappointing no. They appear identical in every way, other than...
the two black boxes inside (three is you count the battery)appear to be slightly different in shape. It is entirely possible however, that they are simply spun 90 degrees from one another. I am not sure I am ready to begin fiddling with them enough to remove them to get a better look.
In consideration of the neck problems on the most recent 1537, your advice and council is sought.
1. How available are necks for a 1537 and if available, at what cost?
2. Would it be ridiculous to consider a 12 string neck on that guitar.
3. Would the bridge and body where the neck attaches, even take the stress of 12 strings?
4. Does a 12 string neck that will work on that guitar without spending a grand even exist?
5. Who the #@$% is/was my mystery man?
Your thoughts, suggestions and comments are greatly sought after and appreciated! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | The factory can perform miracles on guitars.
I would consider spending the $25 to ship it to them for a professional evaluation of what they would recommend could and should be done. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The top isn't braced for 12 stings. You think it has problems now? A new 6 string neck could certainly be put on it. I would suggest you opt for a 6774 neck which is a 1-7/8 inch wide neck slothead. You'll have the only known wide neck slothead 1537. Plus fix up the cosmetic and electronics stuff. It'll probably cost $1000-1200. but in my opinion worth it due to the uniqueness of what you'll end up with.
Dave |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | I agree with StephenT28. For $25, send it to the factory. Might just need a $200 neck re-set. |
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Prototype 1537