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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | That pearl white 12 string on eBay is mine!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7416914021
Gotta love that GREAT O Customer Service!
I got an email back from them today - and the 12 String that is up on eBay right now has about a 99.9% chance that it was originally sold to me!
They verified it was sold to the music store that I originally bought it from - and the dates jive.
I've gotta get in touch with the music store owner here now and see if he can resurrect his records of his transaction with the thief that passed him a stolen check.
It would be cool if there is a slim chance that there might be some justice in this for him after the story totally blooms. (I was never wronged in any of these transactions - but he took a bath for $1,200)
I'm gonna call the seller and try work out a deal with him and see if he'll take it down from the auction - from the phone call I had with him yesterday, I believe he'll do this for me.
How unbelievable is this?!?!?!!?
I'm having a really greaaaaaaaaaat karma day today. I've been in a bit of a funk the past few months (daughter from hell drama!) - but today I got up early and I have to admit - it was the first day I felt GOOD getting up lately.
Anyway - I was having good day anyway - but I got some other hopeful great news about my business and this news too!
I've never bought a lottery ticket - but if I were of that mindset, today might have been a good day to get one. LOL
Happy dancin' in Colorado.... |
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Posts: 15677
Location: SoCal | Sally, how did the guitar leave you in the first place? |
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December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | Pot_Stirrer,
I hope you get this guitar and it is the originally stolen from you. The 1758 is an awesome 12 string.
This time put it on Tupperware's serial number site where you can get it if you need it.
To all you other members who have not registered you guitar on Dave's site. Do It Now.
BTW Dave. Would you ever contemplate a non Ovation area?
I've got a couple of Martins I'd like to keep track of. |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Yeah, how did she leave you? |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | Well... we started talking about this in another thread here....
I bought this in '94 or '95 in MN - new from a music store.
I moved to CO in '96 and immediately got hit with some attorney bills (damn ex!)... and the easiest $1,000 I could scrape up was to sell this guitar fast.
(that broke my heart - but I thought it was definitely a "want" and not a "need" item at the time)
Anyway... guitar went to pawn shop that immediately sold it to a music store here. (and for the record, that was my ONE AND ONLY time in a Pawn Shop - I believe they are inherently evil in nature)
Then it hung in the music store for a few months - it broke my heart even more to drive by that store and see this thing hanging near the window.
Well... I didn't have the heart to go in that music store for a long time.. but I opened a retail store just a few doors down from there and after getting to know the music store owner (this was in 1999 or so), I finally told him I needed to bare my soul about something and asked him if he remembered the white 12 string Ovation.
He immediately cussed! Ugh!!! I told him it was mine and why I had to sell it at the time, then he went on to explain his anger over that guitar by explaining that someone came in, wrote a check for it, the check went through ChexSystems (but the clerk didn't get a driver's license ID) and then long after the guitar walked out the door the check got charged back as stolen.
So he took a bath for about $900 by taking a worthless $1,200 check on this guitar.
I was never wronged in the transactions - but it really tore me up to sell this thing. I'm not a materialistic person - but my attachment to the guitar was that it was a source of joy. At the time, it was my only guitar. So I went without for a few years - then bought a Martin Backpacker at a garage sale just for something to tink with.
Basically, I never really used it because it wasn't worth giving up fingernails for. LOL
It's REALLY ODD (flukey - karma - blessing - whatever you might want to call it) that this guitar happens to surface within the first two weeks of me really committing to get back to playing again.
I decided I really wanted to learn more this time around - so I'm even taking lessons weekly. Woo hoooo! :) So I had two whopping lessons behind my back when my old guitar surfaced. How weird is that?
Ovation verified (with the serial number) that this one was mine. This is just toooooo cool that somehow this guitar was meant to make it's way back to me - and so quickly. What are the odds of that?
The seller is great - he really wasn't motivated to sell the thing - meaning if it didn't sell he really wouldn't mind - so he's working it out with me and I'm giving him a little more than what he was expecting for it. It's just great that it's coming home.
He tells me that it is still in pristine condition.
I can't wait to see it again. |
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Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | I should mention that the guy selling it now bought it in 2001. He got it from a reputable eBay seller that supposedly bought it from a store that was going out of business in Hawaii.
So who knows how many hands it's passed through... but it's obvious that nobody else appreciated it like I did.
I'm going to love having it back home. |
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Posts: 580
Location: NW NJ | I am so tickled for you Sally. This proves at least a couiple of things:
1. It really is a small world and
2. Eventually, almost everything that is worth anything passes throught ebay ...
I love my 1758 too - you go girl! |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | So are you going to engrave your name on the hatch:
Property of Sally Pot-Stirrer? |
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Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | :) |
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Location: Orlando, FL | That's great news! Congrats! |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | this is a very cool story...
(but doesn't really belong to the store owner who got scammed? Just asking is all.) |
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Posts: 5331
Location: Cicero, NY | I would think, legally, once someone could confirm within reason that it was solen from them, it should be returned to it's rightful owner. The store owner, who unknowingly bought stolen property, would be the one left outside of the party, no? |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I would think that the store owner had some sort of insurance that he would have collected on (maybe??) |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Under the common law, the stolen property remains the property of the original owner.
In this case, the property became the pawn shop's property when pot stirrer did not come back to redeem her pawn ticket and pay off her loan. (Or if it wasn't a pawn, it was just a sale). Anyway, I'm assuming the pawn shop had proper title when they sold it to the music store who became the owner.
In theory, the music store owner, could sue Pot-stirrer to get his stolen property back.
A word to the wise:Pot-stirrer don't tell the music store or you will be out a guitar. If he did have insurance, the guitar belongs to the insurance company. Anyhow, that's the common law, there may be some codes that change it, but I don't remember any.
I say if you want it, go for it. In the real world no one is going to do anything. It's not worth it. |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | Well....
I may be all wet on this, but as I've always understood it, I think there's not a problem here because this has changed hands at least 3 times and assuming #2 - 4 down below didn't pay a "hot" price for it:
1. The Thief
((and who knows how many are in between #1 and #3))
2. The music store in Hawaii that went out of business
3. The eBay seller that the current buyer got it from
4. The current owner
Now comes me (again) and how do I know that the music store owner never caught the guy or got his cash? (I sincerely don't know - I haven't talked to that store owner since 2001).
Also... If I'm paying a fair price for it again, I don't think there is an issue here.
I think the real case comes down to being a criminal case against the guy who stole the check and a civil case between the music store and him.
I do see the point, though.
It's just a very odd situation when so many years have gone by - at least 10. (So is there a statute of limitations on this kind of thing?)
Interesting points, though. |
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December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Tracking down the theif and exacting justice probably ain't gonna happen. You mentioned your good karma in getting you guitar back, just figure the bad karma will get him one of these days. It usally catches up to you sooner or later.
Count your blessings and enjoy your guitar!
Again congratulations! |
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Posts: 4069
Location: Utah | I am not a lawyer...
I've posed this scenario on another forum with lots of lawyers. The internet wisdom is that the guitar was not stolen, so it isn't hot. The crime that was committed was the passing of a fraudulent check.
FWIW, YMMV, etc. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | FWIW I think Sally should get the guitar and be happy with it...
When I was a lad, I had a really cool moped that was stolen (Sachs model- only one I've ever seen). Later, after I got my driver's license, I was driving my work van past a gas station (in Willingboro, NJ...tough town, just ask, Al... home of Carl Lewis) about 30 miles from the place my moped was stolen and saw a moped parked along side the station that caught my eye.
As it was the only moped like mine that I had ever seen, I stopped to look at it and noticed it had an identical cut I had accidentally put in the seat AND I happened to still be carrying the insurance card (long expired) that I had for it. I just started walking away with it to put in the van, when a group of guys ran out of the station ready to kick my ass...
As they approached me I said, "I'll be happy to add an assualt charge the count of theft." The kid who "owned" it said, "Let him go, my dad told me something like this could happen...." |
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Posts: 4069
Location: Utah | I need to correct my previous posting. Disagreement has erupted, and the lawyers are bickering. Some seem to think that there was theft via fraud, while others say no theft occured.
I'll just agree with Jeff that Sally should get the guitar and be happy. |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | Hey FlySig....
Any chance you'll fess up the URL for where the lawyers are duking it out?
Post it here - or if you don't want everybody going over there - at least send me a private message with it, will ya?
Thanks |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | News flash....
OK... I was starting to feel crappy about this thing. I don't want to own something that has any kind of negative karma floating around it.
So... I did a little PI work and tracked down that music store owner and gave him a call tonight. He was always a cool dude - and even though we haven't talked in 5 years, he still remembered me and my daughter and we had a great talk.
A few things that came out of the conversation:
1. The thief was identified. The guitar was bought/stolen on Valentines day in '97. The guy that wrote the check had stolen a pad of checks from the middle of a box that belonged to his mother in law.
2. He had written lots of checks out - but the one for the O was the biggest one.
3. He did wind up getting charged criminally for a bunch of stuff.
4. The music store owner (Steve) said that it's all basically water over the dam and there just isn't any "wound" there anymore - even though he didn't get any insurance money or retribution from the thief.
5. He thinks he's still got the serial number around. I told him what it was - and he thinks that sounds very, very familiar (he's a math genius). A police report will definitely verify this 100%.
The biggie is that Steve thinks it's cool that the guitar is making it way back to me - he thinks it's just right that the thing makes it home to me. (Cool, huh!!!!????!!!!)
SO.... LONG STORY SHORT...
There's no problem here. He's all cool with everything.
I just didn't want to feel like there was any shadow of "wrong" around owning that guitar again. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | What more could you ask for? Great news! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I applaud you, Sally for going the extra mile. It really does seem karmically yours. |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey Sally, why don't you have Moody hire you as an assistant P.I. that way you can chase the bad guys and he can spend more time posting on the board.
Dave |
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Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | I'm probably well suited for the job, Dave. :)
My best P.I. work this year was busting a guy I was just starting to date. He told me his wife died in '99 and he was a single parent for 7 years, blah blah blah.... but he was such an interesting character - decent looking, personable, lots of hobbies, fun to talk with, etc. (even plays drums in a blues band in Texas)
But what a psychopathic liar!
Anyway - I totally fell for this guy - everything seemed so cool. EXCEPT that he didn't call me at night - (huge red flag) - so I did some deep digging (it wasn't easy) to find out that the wife was alive and well and they were a couple of weeks away from marking their 25th wedding anniversary.
If I had done the same work to dig up the truth on this guy for someone else, it would have been worth a few thousand dollars. I had to dig through property tax records (which conveniently didn't have her name on them), professional licensing records, etc... just to score his unlisted phone number from home.
The dead wife and I had a great talk. :)
So... if Moody ever needs some help.......
Girl Friday here. :) |
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December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Wow Sally. It sounds like tracking down the info on your guitar was probably a piece of cake in comparison! |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | LOL... it was easier than you think, Zilla. :)
Nothing that a few hours on Google and a good glass or two of Kendall Jackson can't settle.
Oh... if you're interested to see pictures of this guy's band - Code Blue - it seems that maybe he's got an expensive divorce going on now (I can only hope) and he wasn't able to pay his hosting fees for his band's site: codeblue.ws While the domain is still registered, the site is A.W.O.L. now (it was there a month ago).
Anyway... you can see pics if you go to the Lying Cheat's yahoo profile: http://profiles.yahoo.com/ktm_scott and click on the "view my photos" link. He did have some cool equipment that he restored.
Feel free send this guy some "interesting" email for me. :) He probably could use a few "rays of sunshine" flown up his you-know-what again... LOL
In all sincerity, it was really a shame. This all happened in February (Happy Valentines day to the wife and me!) ... It's been long enough now that it no longer hurts - but with everything else I had going on, it was terrible to be victimized by someone like this.
Just another reason for me to get back into guitar playing - I needed something good for my soul to get past some of this stuff. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Sally,
Your guitar is still a live auction on eBay. A little over an hour to go; what happens if it goes to completion and someone else snags it? |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | Yeah, Stone...
The last I talked to the seller (on Friday), he was going to figure out how to end the auction - but I'm thinking maybe he got busy with the holiday weekend.
I sent him an email last night (after talking to the music store guy)so that he would know 100% that there wouldn't be any kind of future legal hassle for him for selling this to me.
I think I'll give him another hour (still early in Hawaii) and give him another call.
I didn't want to have to bid on this thing - but if it's still a live auction, and I don't reach him, I still may have to, huh? Just to help him cover his butt.
I really don't think he'd let me down on this - but I was surprised to still see it up last night.
Aloha Tim already told me he won't be bidding more on it - and his bid is not meeting the seller's reserve anyway. |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | Done deal.
Just talked to the seller - he ended the auction early so there wouldn't be any last minute issues.
I'll get it in a few weeks - after I scrape up some more G.A.S. money.
Heckuva nice guy. I'm sure grateful for this.
And thanks again, Tim...
Happy dancin' in Colorado. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | be sure to invite him to the OFC. Enjoy your new old guitar. |
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April 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Denver Colorado | I already told him about this group and this discussion that's been going down. :)
He told me this morning they just had a death in the family - so it's not a good time for him.
I'm very grateful for the fact that in the middle of his own personal stuff going on that he would do this nice thing for me.
I'll send him a invite to this group again soon. |
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September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Congratulations Sally! It's good to hear when good things happen to good people.
Hope you have a lot of good times with your old friend (The Guiter!) |
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September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Wooops! ... (SP) Guitar. I really need to start checking those things a little better. I guess it just comes with growin' old |
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January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Way to go, Sally! The last time we Colorado Kids got together, you were hunting for something to play. Now it looks like you're growing a swell collection of your own! |
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April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | Don't worry bvince, I play guiters all the time. By the way, you can edit your post if you make a spelling error, instead of posting another post to correct it. Unless you're trying to get your post count up. Hey Sally, that guy looks like a tool. You can do MUCH better than that. Take me for instance...uh...wait, I'm married too... |
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Woooo Frickin' Hoooo! Pearl White 12