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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Nikki Sixx or Shakira on a flag?
Do you care? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Very interesting results. Especially the 2nd question. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | It's also interesting that while 20+ people have voted there really hasn't been any discussion. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | While I would prefer that Nikki Sixx NOT sit on the flag, I take it as an indication of either his misplaced patriotism, or his thoughtlessness, not that he hates America.
Shakira could sit on a dung heap and be pleasant to look at. I would still prefer she not sit on the U.S. flag. But that wasn't the question.
Roger |
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Location: SoCal | The point is that a U.S. corporation created and is using a marketing piece.
No sliding on this...marketing pieces like this are used to shock, disturb, or attract a specific audience.
Ignorance is not a defense. |
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Location: NJ | A U.S. Corporation didn't create this.
A PR/Ad Agency hired a photographer to shoot the marketing collateral for the then-upcoming "Red, Wite & Crue" Album/Tour.
Pic's gotta an O'bass in it, pic got used.
They probably didn't realize it till after-the-fact (assuming that they even DID realize it) . . .
I seriously doubt that Ovation had anything t'do w/the creation of this. |
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Location: SoCal | Cliff, I understand the process...
However, Kaman is responsible for Ovation
Either Kaman or Ovation is responsible for the PR/Ad Agency.
The PR/Ad Agency is responsible for their ad campaign.
Whoever tasked the PR/Ad Agency, bought the magazine space, and paid the fees is responsible for the advertisement
It is true that a lot of our citizens are very lax in the use of the flag...a realtor in our area places small 16" posts with flags on our lawns for flag day and the 4th of July. Some of the residents throw them into the trash cans after the day is over. Even this poll says many OFC'ers don't care about the ad.
No, I didn't complain about this ad...did think to myself that it was unfortunate. However, some of us do take exception to the poor use.
At Marine Corps boot camp, during the training, when the bugle call announcing colors, we stopped, turned to the direction of the base flag pole, and stood at attention. At that time, as lowest of the low - we hadn't earned the title Marine so we couldn't salute. Every Marine saluted the rising of the flag. Vehicles stopped during the flag raising. People stopped talking.
Then one day, the color guard screwed up and raised it upside down...result, court martial.
Some of us take the respect to the flag (the respect to the nation and those that have fought and died) very seriously. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I have the upmost respect for the flag and what it stands for. I think the ad in question is distasteful (to me). But I probably do/say things that are distasteful to others. I'm going to pick my battles and this ain't one of them.
Dave |
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Location: Orange County, California | Ok,
Opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone's are different, and unless you're married no one else wants you to stick your finger in their's, so there you go!!
Here's my take. Nikki Sixx is an A$$. He wouldn't know the difference between our flag, the Union Jack, and the Brittish flag. That said, I don't think he, or the PR guys even have a clue about whether they are showing patriotism, or "dissing" our colors. When I (a mere civillian) am on a military base and I hear a bugle call, I stop and look for a flag, or a group of Marines saluting it. It's cool. they stop drivng, working, whatever their doing to show respect. Nothing means more to me than a color guard at a funeral, and the presentation of a flag to somone's widow/er who died to serve and/or protect what it stands for. That said, If I see it on a guitar, or draped over and athlete, part of/or a piece of clothing or EVEN SOMEONE SITTING ON IT, I see it and tend to interperet it as "pride" (albeit mis-guided by a lack of knowledge about it's proper position), not intentional disrespect. Seriously, I can just see myself saying "Step off chump!! You wanna burn my flag!? Then you're gonna have to move me off of it, or burn me with it. Now excuse me while I lay down some killer American licks!!" I'm just glad the artist formerly know as Cat Steven's isn't touring with an Adamas sporting some symbol of Islamic Jihad against us, but because of our flag and what it represents, I would be wrong to tell him "he can't", in just the same as we're wrong to tell Nikki ,and the PR guys they can't use our flag in an ad that way...
None of this changes the fact that Shakira is hot, and Nikki Sixx is still an A$$!! :D :p :D :p |
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Location: NJ | Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying the act.
I agree that it was totally wrong.
I was merely pointing out that KMC's part in this was pretty circumstantial . . .
Nikki shudda' KNEW better.
But I guess at PhotoShoots your dealing with varying degrees of incoherence . . .
Pardon my "ignorance", but MotleyCrue IS an American band, yes?? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Cliff, Has KMC figured out that they have a part in this?
Having been at several foto shoots over the years it's been my experience that so much of this just happens, it's not really planned. Often it doesn't become clear until the pic is printed.
Not that I'm taking sides here. Don't even know who Srilanka is(or what ever the name is) but they would have to look better than Mr. Sixx, Yes? |
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Location: SE Michigan | I also am disturbed by the treatment of the American flag, one thing that pisses me off is people wearing the flag as a garment, that is really taboo according to everything I was taught. But sitting on it is just plain nasty.
I must also ad that one of the most important things that the flag stands for is freedom of speech and expression, including your right to destroy or disrespect the flag itself. But I can still think you're an ass for doing so.
Kaman should apologize for the oversight and pull the photo. |
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Location: Indiana | "But I guess at PhotoShoots your dealing with varying degrees of incoherence . . ."
Especially during GWB photo ops. As distasteful as I find the selling out of our flag by big business, it is our leaders who have used it to whip patriotism into a fervor where it becomes a much more dangerous form of nationalism ...that I find the most repulsive. It is what our government has done in the name of our flag and what is is supposed to represent that has destroyed our image and reputation to the rest of the world....not photoshoots like this one or others like it. If Americans as a nation really trully gave a damn about the flag, we would be marching on Washington by the millions demanding the impeachment of this entire administration for its crimes against the constitution and humanity. Maybe then we can begin to restore some degree of honor to our nation's symbol. But we have lost our collective soul and our will to take a stand.
fwiw, I am a US Army vet and my family has given 45+ years to our VA hospital. I'm no pacifist but have lived long enough to know most wars are built on lies...be it Vietnam or Iraq. I try to contain my thoughts but in the spirit of Woody Guthrie sometimes a man has to take a stand and on the subject of our flag...this is mine. I don't care for Nikki Sixx or Shakira....but it is the profiteers and politicians who are using our flag to sell death at enormous profit while countless lives on both sides are destroyed that make my blood boil. The blood of innocent men, women and children that soils our flag is far worse than anything that done by this photoshoot.
peace,
mark |
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Location: SE Michigan | What Mark just said, ditto.
It is amazing how we can all get worked up over a silly photo, but the deaths of our young people and the destruction of our international reputation is of little passing interest. But marching on Washington will not help, showing up at the polls next election will; which is also a major idea that our flag stands for.
I'm betting that there will be some major job turnover in Washington over the next few elections. G.W. "Do no wrong" Bush and his buddies will be replaced by some rational leaders. |
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Location: Indiana | Brian...I wouldn't be so sure about the elections. I won't even touch on the enormous amount of evidence that the 2004 election was stolen. It's out there for any interested. Electronic voting without a paper trail is a huge mistake. I think mass protest COULD help if it was large enough to force the mainstream media to address it. It would also need to be large enough to pretty much shut down the nation for a day. I know it won't happen....at least not yet. I am not sure what will turn things around at this point. |
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Location: Indiana | One thing about mass protest... In France you recently had over a million people take to the streets (in a nation of 60 million) to protest new labor laws. Those laws were scrapped as a result of that protest. Does this spirit still exist in America? let's hope so.
mark |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | May 1st many of the illegals in Phoenix staged a work stoppage and it really pissed me off that I couldn't get a decent burrito for lunch. Dave |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I did see some pictures of a protest, maybe it's the one Dave saw, anyway, I saw Selma Hayek on a Mexican Flag, and all I can say is Viva Mexico! |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | CW,
This is the ovation endorsee
Click on the video link. Shakira video
You gotta click on her head, and then it goes to the albums, you want the first one. |
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Location: SoCal | Too many leaves on the album cover..... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Her songs are ok but her videos are dynamite! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I have no problem with her laying a flag on the ground and doing whatever she damn well wants to on it. In fact I'd probably pay to see it. Just make it a flag from some other country. I'd still pay. Dave |
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Location: NJ | The videos are MUCH better with the sound off . . . |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Notice how we all forgot about Nikki Sixx?????....
Roger |
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Location: NJ | Notice how much we care?? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Well, to address the point that there will be job changes after the next election in DC. I would agree. The prospect that they will be rational people I find very far-fetched. It's time we all listened to the Who again so that we don't get fooled again. But of course we will, Welcome in the new boss, same as the old boss.
I'll go watch those videos now, with the sound off...... |
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Flag sitting