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Location: New Hampsha | Let's get this on the table:
Is there or is there not a "gentleman's agreement" about competing for items on E-bay with other OFC members?
If you see something that interests you but another OFC'er is bidding, do you back off or not? |
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Location: New York, NY | My opinion... You're not required to search the bidding history for the names of other OFC'ers (probably couldn't recognize all the names even if you did). But if you recognize the name off the bat, I'd say that it's bad form to bid against them (unless of course the two of you talk about it).
Just my take on it.
Cheers,
JT |
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Location: Upper Left USA | You assess your seriousness and the winner of the auction is the one that made the highest bid in the end.
As a bottom feeder (bid low in case nobody else wants to play) I will try not to bump up an OFCer's bid if they "saw it first".
Otherwise it is a fair market.
I have contacted other Bidders to see if they intended to go higher than I do.
Mostly when another OFCer bids I have to ask myself if I want to compete. I have never felt like I am being forced out. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Let's take a case in point. Look at the bid history on these:
early Balladeer with issues
Viper Electronics
JohnnyCash - What are your thought processes here?
BTW, I'm Fishgiven on ebay. |
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Location: East Tennessee | I as a rule will not bid against other OFC members.
If I did see an item I really wanted I would contact that member to see if it would be OK to bid.
If I see an item first and place a bid on something I really wanted I would post a topic on that item and state my situation. Most members I believe would honor such a request.
If a really nice item came up with a reasonable BIN, first come first serve. :D
This is just my opinion and not something others have to abide by. As they say "Money Talks". |
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Location: gods country..west virginia | if i reconize a ofc'er bidding on something i want i would stand down,or contact them.i try to catch the items when first listed. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | My $0.02
Each situation will be different, but if you chat or PM it out here that's the best you can do. At least recognize each other. Two or three may really really really want an item.
Noses should try not to stay out of joint for more than a week.
Not that I'd know. I've never played that game. |
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Location: Illinois | My uncle said of betting money on a billiard game that can apply to all facets of life. It has stuck with me all my life.
"When money goes on the table, friendship goes out the window."
Ask no quarter and none given. Bid 'til it hurts and may the best man win. If you bid it away from me, then you're the better man. I can respect that. Can you? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Johnny,
I wasn't calling you out and I don't expect everyone to memorize who's who on ebay.
I see your excitement as you try to accumulate all of this cool Ovation stuff you just discovered.
Reminds me a bit of myself!
I just couldn't resist. My suggestion, slow down and get more focused on what you really need. You can spend $1000 on Ebay over the next year accumulating stuff or you can go to Mile's gallery and get something unique and collectible!
Save the GAS fund for the unexpected!
PS - does your Wife know you will be accumulating all this stuff? |
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Location: gods country..west virginia | thanks woody,she is supportive of my hobby/obsesion/investments/junk..as long as i kiss alot of ass!!! |
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Location: GA USA | Hey to June! |
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Location: south east Michigan | It turned out that the last minute bid I put in on my UTE was against an OFC member. I didn't know it at the time. I contacted him after the fact and hoped there was no hard feelings.
Would I have done the same thing if knew? Probably not.
However...Just because 2 OFC members have a gentlemans agreement certainly isn't a guarantee that one of them will take the auction. Who knows who else is out there lurking in the bushes. In two years I have only had about 28 transactions so I'm no expert. But I have found that if you really want something you have got to babysit it right to the end. And even that is not a sure thing. |
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Location: gods country..west virginia | i just called her and told her im bidding on another 0,...bad idea! looks like my weekend is going to be spent on a ladder covered in paint!! |
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Location: GA USA | When I bid on a Viper a month or so ago, I posted "If it means anything, I'm the high bidder on #000000". If somebody wanted it bad enough to outbid me, I have no hard feelings. In fact, the winner is now an esteemed member. I do appreciate how well we support each other and rejoice in the new acquisitions.
I would have a problem with somebody saying "It's mine... don't bid." |
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Location: south east Michigan | I would have a problem with somebody saying "It's mine... don't bid."
Yeah...me too.
TommyK's comments are also well said. |
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Location: PDX | Interesting discussion. I'm too new here to recognize all OFC ebay names - some are obvious, and i don't think this situation has come up for me. I'm not sure how i would handle it. I will think about it a bit more, and listen to what the folks here have to say about it.
However, there is one point that crosses my mind that has not come up yet -- the effect of collusion on the seller. The OFC certainly is not the whole market, i'm not sure what portion of the market it represents. But the way i look at is that examine any ebay sale and you will see about four main players on any given item. Two OFC folks represent then, anywhere from a quarter to a third of the market. (geesh, and don't go critiquing my math for god's sake -- it's probably wrong :) )
Anyway just something i am considering in the mix.
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gh1 |
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Location: gods country..west virginia | i dont lay claims to anything while a sale or auction is in progress,the way i look at it,is it is yours when it arives at your doorstep...just my opion...not looking to make enamies just new friends..jason |
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Location: south east Michigan | Very good point gh1. Very good.
If I was a seller I would certainly not want anything to hold down a fair market value.
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Location: Illinois | That is why my ebay pseudonym in no way resembles any of my other noms de internet.
That is also why, when you go to an auction to buy something, NEVER go with anyone who might also be a bidder. - And - always keep an eye on the spouse. (We've run each other up before :mad: ) |
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Location: Keller, TX | Originally posted by johnny cash:
i just called her and told her im bidding on another 0,...bad idea! looks like my weekend is going to be spent on a ladder covered in paint!! Not a bad trade-off for another O!!
Personally, I go for the forgivness is (easier/better/quicker) than permission. At least I get what I want. Current desire is for the Yamaha VStar Custom 1100. I have no idea how much I'm gonna have to paint if I ride that one home. I'm sure it will be a long and gruelling project, but at least I'll have it. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I think the OFC has done a lot to increase the fair market value of Ovations. Many ebay sellers refer to the OFC or quote stuff from someone like Dave's website.
I have had many OFC members contact me privately to ask if I am interested in an ebay item. (Maybe they just erroneously assume that I'm a rich lawyer who would outbid them.) I have done the same. I don't want to inflate a price by bidding against another OFC member unless it is a guitar I really want. Then it's just a matter of who wants it more, but I've never wanted an ebay guitar more than another OFCer. I think gh1 contacted me similarly about a Craigslist guitar, to see if I was his supposed competition. This is no different than a live auction, when you can size up your competition. Although there are no rules that I know of, I've found that the OFCers are helpful and respectful and if you want it more than another OFCer, the standard response is that we're glad it went to another OFCer.
Oh, and Johnny, if your wife is supportive of your obsession and she has a nice ass, you should be kissing it a lot. |
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Location: gods country..west virginia | thanks mark,i have to kiss alot..between the o's and my cars i have to kiss alot of ass...it well worth it tho..my other obsesion is vintage winder watches..jason |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | We all have our vices. Vintage winder watches can't be too high on the list of sins. |
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Location: SoCal | "I think the OFC has done a lot to increase the fair market value of Ovations."
IMHO: In some instances, "...inflated the market value..." |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by ttenn:
Current desire is for the Yamaha VStar Custom 1100. I have no idea how much I'm gonna have to paint if I ride that one home. The VStars are very nice.
Woohoo! I'm heading to Twin Falls tomorrow morning to bring back a '98 GL1500!
And let's not forget the OFC credits!!
Thanks to Mark in Boise for giving me a lift from the airport to the bus station...
and I'm hopefully spending Friday night at Jeff's in Hermiston!
Sure is good to know members along the road! Thanks, Guys! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I should probably make sure you stop on the way back so my wife can see how reasonable I am, relatively speaking. |
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Location: closely held secret | Depending on how early I can get out of Twin Falls, I'll try to do that. It's a long ride to Hermiston.
What time are you leaving for McCall? |
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Location: New Hampsha | Nice discussion, and thanks to all who contributed. Can I suggest a gentleman's agreeement that everyone might be comfortable with?
1) If you really want the item to satisfy some deep seated GAS, go for it no matter who you are bidding against.
2) If you are considering something that would be a "nice-to-have" and you recognize another OFC'er is bidding, back off and let them have it.
Or is there no agreement at all and the devil take the hindmost? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | What you suggested seems to be the practice, but I don't know if it would be good to make any sort of "agreement" and there wouldn't be any way to make it stick. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Leave it to the lawyer to find the loop holes. :D |
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Location: New Hampsha | Gentlemen don't need cops (or lawyers)- they will abide by the agreement.
I'd like to have a clear understanding of what the brethren think. I've resisted bidding on items that I wanted because another OFC'er got there first. (MW pointed out two recent items in particular.) I'll abide by whatever the majority agrees to, but if there's no consensus then it's every man for himself! |
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Location: SoCal | If you really want something, then go for it. But there have been times when it's been known that a guitar is really important to somebody here, where everybody else has hung back..... It's a good group of people. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | What I try to practice (although recently it didn't work out so well) is to establish in my mind how bad I 'want' something. This means I establish what my max bid would be. If I recognize another OFCer in the auction, I'll contact them and let them know I'm interested and how interested. If they indicate my bid would exceed theirs, then I go ahead and bid. I'm usually only going to bid once (the time spoken of recently I did infact bid more than once but that was the result of my interest level increasing after speaking to a fellow OFCer). This way I don't spuriously inflate a bid that I have no chance of winning. By the same token, I wouldn't feel bad if outbid. There's lots of things I can't afford, this particular item would have to get added to that list.
I borrowed this philosophy from some 'locals' and it seems to really keep the whole ebay insanity in perspective. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | If this country had a few more gentlemen and women, we would have a lot fewer lawyers. |
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Location: SoCal | Many of us throw a minimal bid at items just to mark them for reference.
Usually if someone "needs it" or "really wants it", they'll email others about their intentions.
Your best approach is to initially decide what it is worth to you and how much you can afford. Otherwise, you're going to get caught up in bidding wars and overpay. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Mitzdawg..
If you out bid me on item I would have no problem with it. Even if I was actively bidding at the end, that's okay. On the other side I might confide what my max bid is with an OFC member a few day before, but I reserve the right to bid higher if I need to at the close of the auction.
There is aways another deal coming down the pike in a few weeks or a few months. |
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Location: Orlando, Florida | I haven't posting for awhile, and I wouldn't want to offend, however...
To me, OFC members (or any public forum) agreeing on who bids, how much, etc. underminds the auction, and can rob the seller from the highest bid possible. I have also seen something else that's disturbing. It seems that some members just bid on anything Ovation just to push up the prices (could this be my imagination?). This would keep others from getting great deals (and possibly increase the value of your collections?). I could be wrong about this happening, but it sure seems like it sometimes.
Joe |
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Location: PDX | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
If this country had a few more gentlemen and women, we would have a lot fewer lawyers. Amen to that!!!
BTW i really, really want a 1-7/8" neck nylon string O -- so the next one that comes up --back off!!!!!!!!!! :) j/k (about backing off that is)
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gh1 |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by jyam4:
I haven't posting for awhile, and I wouldn't want to offend, however... You're unlikely to offend here. I can't seem to... :rolleyes:
Thing about a truly free market is that it can't be controlled. Reference "The Hunt Brothers and Silver" for a more complete understanding. This group cannot artificially inflate the price of Ovations (and buy them undervalued at the same time!) for any length of time. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by jyam4:
It seems that some members just bid on anything Ovation just to push up the prices (could this be my imagination?). This would keep others from getting great deals Joe They are called bottom feeders (and I am one) and we place nominal bids of various ovations for the purpose of 1) marking the auction like Noah said and 2) hoping it slips by the radar and we pick up a great O at a remarkable price.
I have never placed a bid on a guitar that I would not gladly keep for the price I was willing to pay and I have scored several awesome guitars at ridiculous prices...an '05 collectoes and a 1581RI come to mind.
It was just recently that 2 members went into the stratesphere over an original slothead. The person who ultimately wanted it the most acquired it....as it should be. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "and we place nominal bids of various ovations for the purpose of 1) marking the auction like Noah said "
Why not use the "watching" feature. I prefer this as it doesn't add a bid to the item whereas bidding may cause others to "make a bid" just to mark it. |
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Location: Minnesota | I tend to agree with Miles. I will generally watch an item rather than bid depending on my level of interest.
If your serious, then bid what your willing to pay!
The bottom feeders here(which I freely admit to being one of, due to budget constraints)are really not an issue because they are usually bidding well below market value! After all everyone likes a good deal :)
I think most here are very good about the communication issue and helping each other with pricing and market value. That being said, truth is any given item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it! You just never know what the market will be.
Sorry for being long winded :( , maybe I should go back to just lurking :confused:
I bought my last O on a great BIN :cool: |
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Location: SoCal | "Why not use the "watching" feature."
Miles, I do use the "watching" feature for auctions I want to watch.
If I know I'm going to bid on an item, I'll enter a minimal bid so it shows up under "Bidding" in My eBay. I usually already know what my maximum bid will ultimately be, but that happens later. Initially placing my maximum bid has worked against me in cases where a Bidder retracts their bid or a Seller cancels bids/auction revealing the high bidder's max. If eBay worked differently, so would I. |
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Location: Orlando, Florida | I totally agree about getting a great deal. I've gotten great deals on eBay with guitars in general. That's never the problem. It's just that placing random bids on things that you don't really want would sometimes ruin it for someone else, who is serious about the item. But let me say that EVERYONE is free to bid on anything at any time. But at times there seems to be a pattern among some users. I guess it's up to the individual's conscience about what would be fair if they were in the serious buyer's (or seller's) shoes.
Joe |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Miles, ditto what Noah said plus I only place a bid (minimum or otherwise) on an item that I would be happy to win. If it is curiosity only, then I will use the watch feature but usually for me, if I have no interest in owning, I have no interest in watching.
A couple of months ago, I got a nice Rickenbacker amp for the opening bid of 9.95 because much to my surprise, after a week no one else had bid on it. Had I just marked it to watch, I would have missed out on a great deal. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | lyam4,
the bids aren't random and if someone else "REALLY" wants it they will have no problems outbidding me.....and if they don't have the resources to outbid me then they really had no business looking at an item they could not afford.
I have had numerous members email at times to ask me if I am going "after" an item or not and I will always respond....usually with whatever my top bid will be. If they decide to back off, then fine. If they want it, they know how much they have to offer to outbid me.
Maybe I am one of the few who doesn't let emotions get in the way of my bids. It doesn't matter how much I want an item, I will figure out my maximum bid and that's the end of it. Later, when the auction is well over, I will check to see if I have adopted anything or not. If not, there is always something else just as facinating waiting behind door number 2.
I have lost many guitars to other members of the OFC who wanted it more than me. I may envy them but I never begrudge them. |
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Location: Orange County, California | :mad: Not me!!
:D :p :D :p |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Mitzdawg:
Let's get this on the table:
Is there or is there not a "gentleman's agreement" about competing for items on E-bay with other OFC members?
If you see something that interests you but another OFC'er is bidding, do you back off or not? let me make this PERFECTLY clear. This website will NOT be used for collusion of any form for e bay purchases. IF there is evidence of this (like there was last week) you will see threads locked or disappear. |
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Location: SoCal | I stayed out of the discussion both because I have been very busy and I really don't understand the basis of the question.
The OFC is a valuable forum...discussion of a guitar or item that is on eBay is enlightening whether I bid or not. Comments from those with more experience or comments by actual owners of the guitar model have either warned me away or increased my desire. Sometimes I have made a very low bid to "mark" it. However, whatever bid I make, I am happy if the auction ends and I am the winner.
A few times, I have been asked if I am serious about the item. I have been honest in saying that I am not going to continue. I have also been honest and say that if someone outbids me, it is going to be expensive. Even posted a couple of times on the OFC that I NEED THIS!! And, I was prepared to get it!
Fun part was the two times when I had an email saying "You are going to lose." Lost one, won one.
Anyone wants to bid against me, fine. It is an auction. I may be naive but I haven't seen any problem on the OFC. As a couple have previously stated, I determine what the item is worth to me. That predetermined limit is the basis for my final bid.
The only screwy thing that I have done is to allow another OFC'er to get the guitar AFTER I was the winning bidder. I have actually contacted the seller, paid for the item, and requested that it be sent to the other person. Then I was paid by the recipient. In each case, the other bidder wanted it but was unable to make his final bid. Didn't affect the final bid. Made everyone happy.
Bottom line...someone wants to contact me to see if I plan to continue the bidding - fine...I'll tell them what I had already decided. If someone has information about the item or seller (good or bad), it is appreciated if that is shared (such as last week). I have freely shared any pictures or answers to my questions that the seller has provided. We can work together without collusion affecting seller and bidding process.
I remember questions posted about roundback as a seller. Frankly, I was proud to be able to say his disclosure and service has always been great. This is an example of how the OFC may have enhanced the seller's position. I have purchased a number of guitars based on comments of OFC'ers who have the model (FD-14, 1537, Adamas I & II, etc.).
Yet, in recent history, I was able to avoid shill bidding in an auction that would have cost me additional dollars if the auction continued.
eBay can be a snake pit...incorrect or abreviated disclosure, guitar models we have never played, etc. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | I am one who bids on a lot of auctions. I watch the ones that I just want to watch, and bid on the ones on which I want to bid. Like Stephen, I bid what I am willing to pay. Does that drive the price up? Only if someone wants it more than me and is willing to pay more.
I do, however, usually avoid bidding against a known OFC member if the reserve has been met or there is no reserve. Apologies to anyone whose bid I've trampled on.
Every once in a while I will get an ebay message telling me that I am making people mad by keeping them from buying Ovations. I simply recommend they look up my winning bid record, which easily reveals that I bid on a lot of Ovations but win few of them. The market does work to determine pricing, and I really doubt the bottom-feeders among us are driving up prices. |
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Location: CT | Here's the official OFC eBay etiquette. If you see me trying to scoop up a nice no reserve O for a dollar, don't bid on it. That way I can have a lot of nice guitars for a dollar. That's fair, right? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Sorry...etiquette would require me to bid $1.01 to drive up the price :D |
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Location: CT | Then I would hunt you down and spank you like a naughty child! |
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Location: SoCal | Stephen might like that ?? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | :D
Thank you, may I have another! |
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Location: gods country..west virginia | :eek: walks out fast!! |
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Location: Illinois | Originally posted by Mitzdawg:
Nice discussion, and thanks to all who contributed. Can I suggest a gentleman's agreeement that everyone might be comfortable with?
1) If you really want the item to satisfy some deep seated GAS, go for it no matter who you are bidding against.
2) If you are considering something that would be a "nice-to-have" and you recognize another OFC'er is bidding, back off and let them have it.
Or is there no agreement at all and the devil take the hindmost? Sure.. :rolleyes: Go with that... :rolleyes:
"To the victor goes the spoils"
If you're bidding on something you REALLY REALLY want, then "Mum's" the word. Tell us about what you bought. Don't ask us what we think about what you're bidding on. We might just start to GAS about it too. |
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Location: Illinois | Originally posted by jyam4:
I haven't posting for awhile, and I wouldn't want to offend, however...
To me, OFC members (or any public forum) agreeing on who bids, how much, etc. underminds the auction, and can rob the seller from the highest bid possible. I have also seen something else that's disturbing. It seems that some members just bid on anything Ovation just to push up the prices (could this be my imagination?). This would keep others from getting great deals (and possibly increase the value of your collections?). I could be wrong about this happening, but it sure seems like it sometimes.
Joe You hit that nail squarly on the head Jyam4.
Re: the Hunt Brothers ran up the price of silver by witholding the silver from the market, keeping the price artificially high by keeping the supply artificially low. -- So much for a 'free market'.--
For anyone to ask you to withold your bid, keeps the price artificially low by keeping the demand artificially low. Either one is rude at best. Dishonest at worst and possibly illegal. And I might add, puts this very forum's existence in jeopardy.
Asking me or anyone else to let you have something at the price you want at the expense of me not having it at what I feel is a fair price is childish and rude.
Witholding your 'friendship', i.e. 'gentleman's agreement', based on getting what you want is sophomoric and little-girls-in-the-school-yard like :p . Grow up and let the market work, or get out of it.
:mad: |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It is an open market.
It isn't personal.
I rarely have enouugh money to upset anyone.
MrGolf007 and myself spent a month or two competing over cheap Preacher cases.
His right arm is in a sling now and we are settled...
...only in America! |
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E-Bay Etiquette