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December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | I finally fixed the poor design on the dummy plug issue that the VIP has. Although I think that just a little more in engineering effort could have made it easy (make the tuner work like the OpPro), they didn't. Here is my fix so I don't have to carry around the dummy plug in my pocket. It is small enough that I can play with it in and leave it in while the guitar is in the case without problems.
1. Went to Radio Shack. Bought the plug shown below. Cut the plastic sleeve as short as possilbe to still hide the contacts.
2. Fill the remainder of the plug with epoxy for a better look.
3. Put scotch tape on half of the shaft.
4. Insert into plug and leave it there permanently.
When I want the tuner to operate, I twist the knob/dummy plug until the tape is away from the circuit board, allowing electrical contact, thus powering the tuner. I can tell when it is where I want it because the tuner powers on. When I want to turn it off, I twist it until the power light on the tuner goes off. This is when the tape is between the contacts and the tuner thinks the plug has been pulled (it is an electrical contact, not a mechanical one).
My next step is to try to grind away half of the shaft of the plug so the tape won't wear down, marked in red in the photo. (I haven't had this problem yet).
I first tried to cover the shaft with epoxy, but it was too thick to insert into the hole. Next I tried masking tape. Nope, still too thick. Finally the scotch tape worked. I was afraid the tape wouldn't last, but it has held up so far.
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Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Very creative.....might have to give that a shot. |
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Posts: 167
Location: Waxahachie, Tx | t,
That is pretty sharp engineering, How about, since you know where the female plug contacts the the shaft of the plug take a die grinder cut a sustantial chuck out then fill it back with an epoxy filler so that the actual on postion is small maybe even drill the beginning of a hole to form a dimple so that when you turn it on you can feel it hit the detent or vice versa. looks good. |
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December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | Yeah, that's the next plan when I get a round tuit. Since it is working at the moment, its toward the bottom of a very lengthy list. |
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April 2005
Posts: 331
Location: San Angelo, Texas | Kewl....I just ordered an Op-Pro Studio, and use that instead of the VIP...or use the Op-Pro out of my 1777LX.
THe VIP is great in studio, but other than that I much prefer the OP-Pro or the Op-Pro Studio. |
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Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | I didn't think you could switch out the VIP for the studio or OpPro. I think the Studio and pro are switchable, just not the VIP. I think the can is different. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I believe BM is right, Greg. According to the Q&A at the Factory, you'll have to switch out the cans. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Not that I would need it (I've always felt that on-board tuners were for "girls"), but how taking ttenn's cut-down plug and wiring a little, mini toggle switch onto the end?? |
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Location: closely held secret | That's exactly what I was thinking, Cliff.
Something like this?  |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Actually, if you only "plug-in" w/XLR . . .
. . why not just replace the 1/4" jack with the above push-button??
(y'might have to modify your case a bit to keep it from switching on/off as it goes in/out of the case) |
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Location: NJ | OOOH-OOOH!!!! . . . I KNOW!!!!
Hook it up to a "Clapper"!!!
(clap on/clap off) . . . . |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by cliff:
OOOH-OOOH!!!! . . . I KNOW!!!!
Hook it up to a "Clapper"!!!
(clap on/clap off) . . . . Hmm.. Nice idea. Unless you actually get applause after a song. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | The idea of replacing the jack is close (until you find yourself in a situation where there is no XLR available), but why not just put another 1/4" hole next to the output jacks and install one of these?
Mounts in a 1/4" hole. Very unobtrusive. Hopefully your jacks are near the endpin?
Seems this would also allow you to use XLR where there is no phantom power available without having to use the dummy plug. |
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December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | Thought about that too, but didn't want to drill a hole in the bowl if I get rid of the 2K6.
Actually, replacing the 1/4 inch jack is probably the best idea yet, but there are a few problems. Firstly, the 1/4 inch and the XLR jacks are both mounted to the same circuit board. Since the XLR mounts externally to the case with exterior screws, you would have to flip it around 180 degrees to open the 1/4 inch plug hole. You will still have to deal with the 1/4 inch plug, because it sticks out a little.
I guess if you are daring with a soldering iron, you could remove the 1/4 inch plug from the circuit board, then install the above switch. If you want to return it to stock, just re-solder the plug back in place.
Initially, I wanted to find a REALLY small push on/push off SPST switch that I could insert into the 1/4 inch plug, but couldn't find one small enough.
The wiring is pretty easy. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I've never had t'mess with any of this stuff w/my lowly guitars and their archaic electronics . . . I guess (sometimes) there are advantages t'being poor . . .
(I usually just go from FET3/OpX to my pedal board which is XLR-out) |
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Location: closely held secret | The first switch I found may not fit 'into' a 1/4" plug, but it wouldn't be that hard to make a modified barrel to attach it to. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Whose job is it to design these preamps, anyway? I wonder if they're reading this. John <>{ |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | It seems to me they had an explanation for this at the Q&A, I just can't remember right now. I'll check the video and see if I caught it. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I seem to remember it being about the tuner "timing out" and that with the more "features" being added (compression, mic modeling, etc.), it was decided to shorten tuner time-out to save battery life . . . I don't remember if the dummy-plug thing came up . . .
". . let's go to the video tape . . ." . . . |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Cliff's correct.
Consider that the schematics have to go out to whoever the builder of the "board" is so there isn't a lot of room for change until the parts are used up and Rev 1 is contracted.
As the owner of a 12 string with an OP Pro all I can say is learn to tune faster! |
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Location: closely held secret | Yeah, I seem to remember a bit of double talk around it about the tuner time out as well... I don't think the question was really answered. Perhaps just a design error that nobody wanted to fess up to.
I'll check the tape later. |
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Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | From my memory:
They designed it on purpose that way to decrease battery usage. When the preamp/tuner is powered there are "alot more things going on" that draw more power. Therefore, to increase battery life they designed it this way.
My take: It would have been simple to take a power lead from the battery to the tuner button connected to a timer relay. When the tuner button is pushed, the tuner (or tuner and preamp) gets powered. When the timer expires, everything powers off. It doesn't use any more battery that if you power it with a plug. Make it work like the OpPro.
My opinion: TO ME, sounds like a design failure. Somebody didn't realize it was a problem until after the design was approved and production had started.
(I probably don't have all the facts and may be completely wrong. I'm not trying to offend anyone at the factory. I started this thread to show how I worked around a problem I am having. When I posed this question at the factory tour, it seemed TO ME that we got the run-around. Please don't ruin my custom ordered guitar that I'm still waiting for!!)
[EDIT: Paragraph added]
However, it is designed a little differently. The tuner stays on until either the tuner button is pushed again or the plug is removed. There may not be a timer relay designed into this preamp. Without the timer, the only way to kill the circuit is manually with another push of the button or removing the power. Still they could have made the tuner button into a push on/push off switch. |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | Originally posted by cliff:
I seem to remember it being about the tuner "timing out" and that with the more "features" being added (compression, mic modeling, etc.), it was decided to shorten tuner time-out to save battery life . . . I don't remember if the dummy-plug thing came up . . .
The tuner doesn't time out. It stays active until the tuner switch is pushed again or the plug is removed. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Interesting. So if the time out circuit was um... overlooked, the only option may have been to require it be powered off to save the battery when not using the preamp. |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Need Epaulet Solar Panels to power the preamps off of stage lights. Try that on a Martin! |
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September 2004
Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Won't work....no epulets on the 2080. Nice try though. Being near the Hanford nuclear reservation, I am considering a nuclear battery. Should add a nice greenish glow too. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Hey! I believe that Kaman has a division that makes reactor controls . . . might be worth a shot!
Put "W"'s picture on the label and call it the "Newcular Edition".
(nah, . . scratch that . . . it'd have t'run on oil . . .) |
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December 2003
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Location: Upper Left USA | "...glowing along-g-g-g with the radioactive tumbleweeds..."
Funny how the Post-War real estate is different. |
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Location: NJ | D'ya ever hear SteveGoodman's "Watchin' Joey Glow"?? |
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Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | Here's my take on this which I think may be correct. Based on reports this "needs to be plugged in to work" feature is identical to the way the Aura preamp on my Martin OMC Aura works. The fact that Fishman are about the only folks providing on-board image modelling pre-amps, makes me believe that the Conneticut boys have been working with the MA Fishman boys for the VIP. This seems to be confirmed by TTENN who swears that the VIP has Fishman printed on the pcb. Accordingly it is Fishman that we need to lobby not "O" to get them to stop being stupid with this "designed" feature. Used to annoy the crap out of me as it meant I had to find a cable every time I wanted to tune the OMC. At first I thought this was just a Martin lack of "plugged-in" experience issue, but Ovation should have been able to spot this one at a million miles. Hope they fix it :-) |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Please tell me again why I need the VIP? Honestly, I'm a bad point of reference on this because I play 99% unplugged. But I still REALLY like the Optima/XLR and OP-Pro/XLR preamps.
Dave |
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September 2004
Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Please tell me again why I need the VIP? Honestly, I'm a bad point of reference on this because I play 99% unplugged. But I still REALLY like the Optima/XLR and OP-Pro/XLR preamps.
Dave To be short and to the point....
You Don't
Quite frankly, I have not seen anything impressive enough about it to warrant the inconvenience of the whole powering up thing.
I prefer my Op50 over it both in sound and function. |
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December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | It definately does NOT have a timer. In my infinite wisdom, I left it powered all night. Came back in this AM and the battery light was blinking. DOH!!! I forgot to twist the plug back to the off position. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | While we're on the subject... kind of...
Yesterday I was using my 1581, Optima preamp, in church. Made sure I had my special, pin 1 grounded to shell XLR cable, plugged in, tuned up, played for an hour, sounded great (the guitar) through the PA.
Later, church is over, I go back to the board to shut things down... THE PHANTOM POWER IS NOT ON. Hasn't been the whole service! Yet the preamp was working fine the whole time with no dummy plug.
Is there something I don't know about the Optima? Tuppy? Do yours work on XLR off the battery with no dummy plug?
And why is this site now so stinking slow with huge lag times???? |
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My fix for the VIP dumb dummy plug problem