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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think this is a long overdue topic. It's probably going to involve pictures. I have heard over the years lots of talk about how "hard" it is to hold an Ovation, especially a deep bowl. It "slides off the leg" or "it always wants to flip face up" and the like. Ovation has even come out with a countour bowl. There are also many people like myself that do not understand any of the complaints as we never had an Ovation slip off our leg when sitting or want to face the sky when standing. I like the deep bowl guitars, and I have a decent beer gut too.
My thought is that it really has more to do with arm length and technique than the instrument, but that's why I'm starting this thread. Just looking for input, maybe seeing different people's techniques. It might help some of those who are uncomfortable when they play.
I usually sit when I play. I noticed in the below pictures for some reason I have the guitar on my right knee which is rare for me, but as that is more common I guess it's appropriate for this discussion. Note the deep bowl model. I try not to touch the top, and the back barely touches my protruding gut. The guitar is almost perpendicular to the floor.
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I'm with you, Miles. i've never had slippage problems and i find the roundback soooo much more comfortable to hold than the woodboxes.
Listen-up you slippers out there. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I think that I apparently also hold it and play it just like Miles in the above pictures because I have never had slippage issues or the bowl tipping upwards.
I also have fairly long arms....so maybe there is something to that theory also. |
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Location: NJ | miles
my left arm acts more like a hinge over the body of the guitar. you seem to have that but not to the degree that I do. |
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Location: USA | hmmm...never had this problem since most of the time I play standing up... :)
when I do sit i rest it on my knee...but i always use a guitar strap as well |
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Location: Snellville, GA | Define "decent beer gut"... my wife doesn't describe mine in those terms. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Decent means that you have a nice loose fitting shirt that covers the WHOLE gut... preferably something without vertical or horizontal stripes.
Hawaiian shirts work well... aren't they the official shirt of the OFC? :D |
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Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | Seem's I'm doing the same as Miles too. I don't suffer slippage, just have a problem putting the guitar on my left leg. Seems it naturaly ends up on the right when I sit down. |
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Location: SoCal | I have never had slippage except with my Martins (D series), even with a strap...don't understand the whole discussion. Frankly, whether 6-str or 12-str, deep bowl O or A is the best acoustic projection and far more comfortable than a wood box.
I have straps on almost every guitar not in a case...even those without a strap have strap locks meaning that I can easily transfer a strap from another. Even sitting, I use a strap to have proper playing position.
I have far more problems with a wood box, unless a classical.
We had discussed this before...if you do sit with an O w/o a strap, a small piece of the the roll sold for lining shelves would work great laid on the leg. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The only one I have slippage problem with when playing seated is a supershallow bowl. I like a nice flat notch to rest on my thiegh. SS just does not have it. Other than that I have no problems playing seated. I try to hold the guitar with the face perpendicular to the floor, just like a wooden guitar. Playing standing is another story. Sorry to say it, but for me there is just no way to get comfortable straped in with a roundback. Even if my abdomen was perfectly flat (say 25 years ago) you're still fighting round bowl vs. flat abdomen. Donuts, pizza, burgers, beer only make it worse. The Contour Bowl solves all these problems. It positions the guitar nice and flush just like a wooden guitar. Seated it has a big flat notch for your thiegh. Standing, the face of the guitar is perfectly positioned. I'm totally sold on the Contour Bowl. Closest thing to perfect you can get short of a wooden guitar. Dave |
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| Never had a problem with the leg thing either?? Always used my arm to clap it pretty good on the bottom of the body while playing. Standing up is a problem for me....and this is the only way I play now but for the rare sit down practice session. It takes a while to make yourself get used to standing but it is a very freeing experience once you get used to it. And a must for Stage work.
I still have a gut (lost 20 lbs 30 more to go) I have to play the guitar off to my left side while standing with my fore arm sitting more toward the center of the body...Strap button area.... instead of the natural tendancy to rest on the top edge. This is awkward at times depending on the chords. I also have to swing the guitar to my right and strum higher up the strings while working the bar chords for the Jetro Tull stuff like Living in the Past. This keeps the guitar from bellying up on me and it relaxes my hand position for those songs with repetitive, hand cramping, bar chords.
I am tempted to make a simple light weight black foam wedge that attaches to a small strip of stuck on velcro on the back of the body so the top will not roll toward me when playing without thinking about my positon. It would not need to be very large at all to do the job. Believe me I would not want it to look foolish. If it works I'll email a shot or two.
Randy |
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Location: ranson,wva | when seated i usualy cross the right leg over the left or use a like 10in footstool. but ive never had any slippage problmes with any of my ovations, the deep bowl ovation has to be the most comfortable guitar ive played..jason |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | Is there some reason to place the guitar over the left leg? I've always only used my right.
I tried this for experiment with SSB, Artist, Mid, and Deep...no slippage from any of them, though the deep bowl was the most akward to keep in the "proper" perpendicular position while playing intensely. To me, the SSB is still the most comfortable, though I'll have to try this more when I get my contour-bowl 12 in.
Then again, my gut is not much of an issue right now...try it again in another 20 years. :D |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | The "left leg" thing is more a "Classical Guitar" thing I have seen. Really don't know when I started doing it or why. I don't always put it on my left (as witnessed above) but I do often.
I am more curious why we haven't had any of the folks that have "issues" with the round-back post. I realize its only been a day, but the amount I see it written I thought there would be at least one demonstration. I never had a problem standing, but I haven't played that way in years, so maybe I'll go get a strap and see what that result is.
My reason for starting this thread was mainly to try and help people with issues in holding the guitar. Afterall, that is probably the #1 complaint about Ovation guitars and we've even seen reference here about the issues of slippage or flipping. |
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Location: ranson,wva | i picked the footstool trick up from my pops,he plays classical on some high dollar spanish made guitar..jason |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I have never had a slippage problem, although my gut hasn't matched the contour bowl yet. As long as your leg is parallel to the floor or angled slightly up, I don't see the problem. Unlike Tuppy, I didn't find the contour bowl to be a good fit and I have more of a gut than he does.
I think it's all a scam that flatbackers started to knock Ovations. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Hey Mr Ovation;
Why do you have TWO OUTPUT JACKS on the back of your Git-Fiddle?
On my Psuedo-Strat, I sit and stand with the neck going out before me, at kinda a 45 degree angle, with the body tilted up. I like to see what I am doing.
I just got this Ovation, and I kinda like that the body tilts up alittle when I am standing.
But thanks for the tip about that rubber stuff for drawers and shelves. I got some of that, I may give it a try. Right now, I sit with a strap.
On eBay, I saw some stick-on rubber stuff, No-Slip or something, but I'm not sure that I want to crazy-glue something to my O.
Later... |
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Location: ranson,wva | my balladeer has a slip-grip pad on it. to answer you question i belive the adamas had a output for mono and a output for stereo..miles if im wrong please corect me..jason |
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Location: Oregon | Some girl at GC said she didn't like it how it slipped off her leg. I popped out from behind some guitars and told her to try a deeper bowl. She looked at me said "Okay" then looked to her boyfriend and grabbed a wood back martin or something. I died a little.
I have a the occasional slip, but I have a super shallow bowl. Never had the slip on mid to deep bowls though. |
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Location: Oregon | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I think it's all a scam that flatbackers started to knock Ovations. That's how they stay in business, a bad rumor keeps them alive. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "I have a the occasional slip, but I have a super shallow bowl. Never had the slip on mid to deep bowls though."
Ok... hmmm this is getting interesting. Those of us that don't have slip issues, recommend the deeper bowls, but Ovation made the shallow bowl in response to people complaining about slippage?? Or is this not correct info.
FYI yes the two-knob stereo pre-amp causes the two jacks. :) I no longer have that guitar, I was just babysitting it. |
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Location: NJ | using the left leg is all about positioning of the arm and guitar body and playing position.
when playing a 12 fret the left leg seems most comfortable to me because there is less neck.
I had a few years of lessons from a classical player in college so, my personal technique borrows from the good habits of classical player and the bad habit of jazz and rock players |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | I'm sure most of my playing is entirely bad habits...consequenses of being entirely self-taught.
Then again, I mostly play standing with a strap (and straplocks), and I play fairly agressively, so my guitars move all over the place. (Hence, the appreciation of shallow bowls) |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | This is a nice thread to see!
Yes, I have the slipping problem when I stand. I tend to wear my guitar rather high up compared to the low slung younger Jimmy Page types out there. It drives me crazy. It's so annoying that I don't play my Ovation (1778LX) in any situation where I have to stand. Sitting, I'm not too bad with slippage, but it does tend to creep around on me. While I can stand to lose some weight in the "mid-section", I'm not really portly (yet, anyway!). However, I'm 6'1" and long in the torso, if that should make any difference(??).
With respect to the left knee position, I noticed from old t.v/video footage that Les Paul always played that way. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Chet Atkins did as well, when he was seated on a stool.
Anyway, I love the feel and sound of my Elite LX, but am about looking to trade at this point. I will try some of the suggestions posted here and see if they help. |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | bobalu, try this:
1. Purchase a set of Dunlop strap-locks (about $15)
2. Take your guitar, and place it on it's face on a bed or soft, firm surface.
3. Take a drill with a 1/16" bit and drill a hole on the underside (treble side) of the body, after the neck, just inside the cutaway. If you place this just right, it will go into the wood of the neck support, just like the normal strap pin location on the top (bass) side of the guitar.
4. Install the strap lock by screwing it into the hole you made, then remove the strap pin on the bottom of the guitar, and replace it with the other strap lock pin.
This will force the weight of the guitar down, rather than up, and should eliminate ANY upward movement while wearing a strap. See the pics below:
If that still doesn't fix it and you're seriously looking to trade up guitars, check out a 2078LX with the contour bowl - it will be pretty similar to your 1778, just with more bling and the contour bowl, which should eliminate any rotating at all. |
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| Yeah I thought about this but I hate to make any alterations to my Adamas 1's stage guitars. I will try the stick on velcro and a small foam wedge. I sure hope this works it is very easy to remove and virtually weightless, no alterations and no need to buy a new contour body. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | edensharvest, thank-you for the advice, and the detailed instructions as well. I'm willing to give this a try at this point. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | bobalu, have you tried different strap lengths? Maybe looking at yourself in the mirror to see what you might be doing that you could adjust with technique? |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Mr. Ovation, you must be a mind reader! I just sat down here now to see your post after trying a few of my (many) straps in varying width and length adjustments. I have actually found what I think is a solution to my problem. I had my straps set for my electrics (length wise I mean, depending on the guitar). I started adjusting the length and have found just the right one which, with a minor technique adjustment seems to solve the slipping problem with my LX. I'm very pleased and relieved. I'm not sure I could have brought myself to trade the LX (some sentimental value here). |
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Location: ranson,wva | as far as straps go ive got the same old fender tweed 2 incher that ive had for years,the tweed is kinda slick so i took a 4x2in peice of selatex latex bandage,it has adheasive on one side and stuck it where it rests on my shoulder and that cured the slippage problme. but like i said above i mostly play sitting down..jason |
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Location: CT | You can keep the contour bowl, I think its ugly. I've never had a problem sitting, and when I stand the deep bowl points up a little. So what? The guitar doesn't dig into my arm, and its plugged in anyway, so it doesn't have to point at a mic. |
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| OK this thing works. I need to find a small piece of foam that is black instead of the white piece I have now and it should not be noticable. If I can figure out how to load a photo to the thread I will do so. I can get one in my photo's in the members section.
I just can't bring myself to change the button location from where it is now. I used to have an O that had this configuration from the factory and it worked quite well. I think many of the older models were all were set up this way. It took a very long strap to make it fit correctly for me though,
That brings up another point.....Who in here has ever used a guitar strap on the bottom or shortest selections of length???? My God You can't get your arm through the space when it is shortened as far as they make them. I am maxed out on the adjustable straps to get the guitar to sit where I like to use it. I tried to play like Dave Mathews does with the guitar quite high. It makes the finger work easier but my arm cramps, real bad, from having to hold it so high after a 1/2 hour or so. Straps ought to be adjustalbe to a longer lenght than they are.
Miles About the shallow bodies and Ovations reasons for making them.......I always thought they did this for the gigging musicians who wanted something that did not need to sound great acoustically but was a breeze to hold and play on stage when plugged in?? I do not think it was designed for the sitting player?? They are a breeze to play on stage and feel like a very light electric guitar.... I could be wrong ... I so often am.
Randy |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | Randy,
You can get longer straps, or custom longs. I tend to use mine on a "mid" length - not up really high, but not like a 16-year-old trying to be cool playing an electric down by his knees.
I usually set my straps up just about as long as they go, and I'm only 5'10" - I'm not sure how taller people go about it with standard straps.
My OFC strap is longer, which is nice. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by edensharvest:
Randy,
You can get longer straps, or custom longs. I tend to use mine on a "mid" length - not up really high, but not like a 16-year-old trying to be cool playing an electric down by his knees.
That's because that's where they wear their pants. Aren't you supposed to hold the guitar at your beltline? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by bobalu:
Mr. Ovation, you must be a mind reader! I just sat down here now to see your post after trying a few of my (many) straps in varying width and length adjustments. I have actually found what I think is a solution to my problem. I had my straps set for my electrics (length wise I mean, depending on the guitar). I started adjusting the length and have found just the right one which, with a minor technique adjustment seems to solve the slipping problem with my LX. I'm very pleased and relieved. I'm not sure I could have brought myself to trade the LX (some sentimental value here). LOL... glad it worked. I think many folks could benefit from what you tried. |
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| I'll tell ya Miles, I have seen extra length tails you can buy as extra's... but for the $30/$40/somtimes$50 I have spent in the past on good Levy's or soft stitched Franklin straps you would think they could pony up an extra couple-a-inches on a tail piece! Anyway I have 11 expensive straps all with schaller locks. That is as much as another guitar. If I get the double neck I will buy one of the straps we have right here. Sure wish you had these last year. I would have half a dozen or more by now.
YOu gotta try this silly foam thing. I too like the guitar tipped a little when playing it really is great to see the frets at times but the guitar looks funny and it makes the player look fatter than they are when it is tipped like these tip. Randy |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hey Northcountry, not sure why you pointed to me, I don't have an issue with tipping up, but some others seem to and it looks like bobalu fixed his issue by just experimenting. For me, I've never had problems really finding straps long enough. My favorite strap is the Carvin Deluxe strap. I guess my favorite should actually be my newest strap from Tony Murga. Its leather with a single Stingray tail that runs the entire length. I won't mention the cost, but it was enough to have bought about 15 Levy or Franklin straps, bit it is very nice and comfy. |
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| Pointed my comment to you because you started the thread?? And I was only speaking to you directly about the straps... musta ascert ya or something...The tipping comment was for everyone. I guess it is my 6" 3" frame and 52" chest and 285lbs that makes my strap search a little harder.
No matter on the foam fix I found..... It is not for everyone but it works for me.
I think the relocation of the strap lock is one of the best cures but unfortunately this can actually affect a guitars value.
I play these Ovations all the time on Stage. The way they sit is very important to me... And it is just as important that they look good to the audience as it is for my comfort. A musicians instruments and appearance often translates into professionalism. My weight is a real problem. It gets hot on stage sometimes. And it does not look professional when your significantly overweight. Like me...
Miles that strap would be $750.00. Wow!
Randy |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | LOL... not quite that much... I was using $30 straps as a guide :) Over $400 anyway, and we'll leave it at that.
"Pointed my comment to you because you started the thread?" Gotcha... I get it.. Yeah I started this thread because no one else did basically. :) It's helped at least one person, so that's made it worth it. I could never bring myself to add holes in my guitar nor would I be able to tolerate any additions to a guitar strap. But then again, I don't have the slip'n flip problems so its a mute point. |
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How To Hold an Ovation