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Location: Marlton, NJ | Last night, I went out to dinner with my wife and a couple of friends for my anniversary... a place called the Library. Toward the end of the evening, this guy with a guitar came on (not an O... couldn't tell what it was). He starts playing and he sounds like an orchestra playing Allman bros, Jimmy Buffett, etc. The one instrument I couldn't hear in the songs was the freaking guitar! To me, it wasn't entertaining at all... I would have rather just heard the guy and his guitar playing some songs. It was like watching a movie when the soundtrack is off by a couple of seconds.
Great steak though! |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | He played steak??? |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Rib eye tuned to "D" |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Library's still there, eh? I figured that would have been swallowed up by a Bed Bath and Beyond or some such....
I hate "over-produced" music.
Sorry to hear the music was wanting but, I hope you got lucky after dinner.... ;)
Happy Anniversary |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Say no more....nudge nudge |
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Location: NJ | mike
was that guy a rather large guy? in his forties/fifties? if so I saw him and his brother (drummer) play a wedding with a bass player. rather intersting for hear b 3 coming out of a guitar. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Al - it was weasely looking little guy (apologies to any weasels out there). The age is about right though. It's a good thing we had a few drinks in us. |
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Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
I hate "over-produced" music.
Why some people buy a nice acoustic/electric guitar then go to extremes to make it sound like something else? :confused:
Less is more. :) |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | that's why you should always pick the tomatoes out of your salad and save them for the show, just in case! |
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Location: NJ | I can't STAND these clowns that show and do gigs with backing trax on a laptop!!!
We've got a local duo around here (I won't publically mention their name) that consists of a guy playing electric guitar/vocals and woman who plays drums/vocals. The guitar player's got this whole rolling rig with effects and a laptop controlling what I assume are pre-package midi backing tracks (WITH a drum track!).
So, this broad is singing(badly) whilst playing(?) the drums at about a half beat OFF from the backing drum track.
The only saving grace is that by the second set she gets sloggered enough on PinotGrigio to where she vascillates in/out of "time", so that she's "in the pocket" 33.3% of the time, and you time the moments you look up from your meal accordingly. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | The worst one that I saw was an older guy with a little passport PA sitting on a table beside him (not even with the speakers detached), a strat,
and a CD player. He started doing these horrible versions of Sinatra (and the like) tunes. Fortunately, we hadn't ordered dinner yet, so we drank up and got the hell outta there.
This is a place that both I and Cliff's duo (Two Man Group) would later play, and the venue complained about us not bringing in enough people! I can't be sure, but I would think that neither of us ever drove people out of the place, which is more than I could say for this guy! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Funny... I thought Cliff was tawkin' about Bruggy... |
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Location: NJ | Bruggy doesn't look that good in red lipstick (trust me on that one) . . .
This same place that John is referring to (that complained that "WE" didn't "bring people in") was the same place that did absolutely DICK in regards to advertising that they even HAD entertainment . . and thought that a "webpage" came out of a Spiderman comic . . . |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | "Bruggy doesn't look that good in red lipstick (trust me on that one) . . ."
It's always something! Last week he said my ass was getting to big! What a bitch! |
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Location: East Wenatchee, WA | You guys forget who is paying the majority of the dough for these folks, however....the other "non-musically inclined" that sit around wanting to hear exact replication of some 70's song or another.
I don't blame these folks abit. They are probably hired for their ability to please a crowd, and I would best most of the crowd could care less about the purity of the music.
That's why for years, I put my guitar away and was paid very nicely (after my day job) to play albums to middle aged and older folks at the American Legion on my PA system. I was a live DJ before it was cool.
If you want the kind of music you describe, you will likely have to find a different venue. In this day of Britney and such, technology rules the purse strings. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | And Jeffrey probably put the record on the turntable and just let it play, instead of moving it back and forth to make scratching noises and calling it music. |
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Location: Oregon | I have this friend see? His band has over six keyboards, a bassist(does that count?) and a drummer. It's wreched music.... there is NO guitar at all. And it's really really slow music as well. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Rent the movie El Mariachi, the first one. There's a great scene where the mariachi is looking for a job, and he goes into a bar with his guitar and the owner points to these lazy slug with a keyboard who presses one key and becomes a one man band. Very funny movie, lots of violence in the vein of the cohen brothers, but mexican. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | The reality of live music today is that you have to bring your own audience. If your getting paid $500 for a friday and saturday night, you better plan on bringing in at least 75 to 100 people over and above the regular crowd. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think this story will sum it up...
Whilst in Hawaii I was chatting with the band (2 people) at the top of the Ala Moana hotel bar. It was a Saturday night, the place was rockin, lots of dancing, drinking, Miss Hawaii stopped in... fun nite. Anyway, I asked the guy from the band what the deal was as I saw a drum kit, and a bass, and a keyboard rack... but it was just him on guitar and a girl singing and everything else was midi.
He explained that they normally performed as a band but for rehearsing, they have everything sequenced so they can practice the arrangements separately. That all sounded logical and in fact what I did also when I played.. And he continued... They really like when the Bass/Keyboard player and Drummer don't show. It's usually because they got individual gigs elsewhere. The other folks get full checks, and these two get to split the check 2 ways instead of 4. Plus tips it works out better for everyone. The bar doesn't really care cause they are going to be packed anyway, and the two that do show up are having so much fun they probably spend at least one of the other guys checks on tips to the bar and wait staff. Everybody's happy.
I did a few gigs in the 90's with a bass player, keyboard, myself and sequenced drums. It actually sounded good, just looked a little odd (no wisecracks please.) It actually worked out well because we only did openings (one 40 minute set). It usually took about 3 or 4 tunes in before anyone really noticed there wasn't a drummer. I couldn't imagine doing a whole nite like that tho. One set, after they catch on, it's kindofa "hey that's pretty neat" but I think by the 2nd set, it would have been just wrong. |
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Location: Seattle | Dunno. An Ovation is almost too much technology for me. I'm starting to like playing a guitar with a mic shoved in front of it again. |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | are you trying to get excommunicated? :mad: |
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Location: GA USA | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
(no wisecracks please.) Yeah, that'll happen here. |
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Location: Seattle | No no no, it's all good. I appreciate Ovations. I'm just too lazy to plug them in. |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | Damon, just kidding. ;) I'm surprised they haven't run me off yet. This group has standard's albeit they are very low! :D |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | So, when using a sequencer for the drums and you're 10 minutes into a blues number and turn to the drumer for his or ad lib solo, everybody stands around looking at the rack? |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Years back, when all this stuff first started to come out, I saw an excellent duo use it all to best effect. Keyboard player and guitar utilizing synths and programmed drums.
The drum machine was on a solid looking stand in front of the guitar player and he would stop playing and play the drum machine with his fingers for drum solos. (like in The Walk Of Life)
Most importantly, they were personality plus performers. Looking like they were having a great time with each other and the audience. The dance floor was packed all night and people were phoning their friends...(okay, maybe it was just me) to come hear them.
Like Cheap Trick sang; Everything works, if you let it! |
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Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | A 1976 Legend just sold on ebay for $305. Looked to be in good shape, but probably didn't get much interest because it wasn't AE. A shame that many people don't know that Ovation makes guitars that sound great without having to plug them in. |
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Location: SoCal | Mark, have you ever played a 1970's Legend? With the VT whatever bracing, they are not very good guitars. $305 was about right for it.
Once you get into the 1980's Legends, which have the A bracing, well, then you're talking a whole different animal... a great sounding guitar acoustically.... |
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Location: Tennessee | "I'm also getting an Ovation Legend, because I like them so much."
-- Mark Knopfler, Guitar Player, July 1979
From the same interview:
"At the present time, Ovation is making some guitars for me. They're building two custom acoustic Adamas guitars, a 12-string and a 6-string. They have quite an amazing sound, and have a graphite and birch veneer composition top, very thin and very strong, a feature quite different from the Ovations that I’ve come to know. I just asked Ovation to simplify them a bit here and there, because they struck me as being too fancy." |
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Location: SoCal | Those guitars for Knopfler were the basis for the Adamas II's.
As to the Legend, you don't know if he liked them because he could plug them in....
I admit that I'm biased based upon my experience. I've got a Jim Croce dvd and he and his player are playing a Legend and a Balladeer, mic'd, and they sound good. My 78 Legend just sounds crappy..... |
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Posts: 15667
Location: SoCal | The Adamii built for Knopfler were the basis for the Adamas II's.
I've just never played a 1970's VT braced Ovation that I thought sounded good acoustically. But here's a 1978 Legend that's on the 'bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1978-OVATION-LEGEND-ACOUS-ELEC-MINT-w-H...
where the seller is asking over $1200. I hope he get it, but he probably won't. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Plus's and Minus's to playing against a sequence. On one hand we definitely did not have a drum solo. That could be either plus or minus depending on your thoughts. However there were some amazing positives that can really spoil a player. Aside from the obvious consistent timing, having the guitar, bass and PA vocal effects automatically switch on the note made for some tight tunes. Having a B3 sound help fill out a lead while the "real" keys player is playing piano parts was awesome. Being able to rehearse anytime with or without the other players was nice. Arrangements didn't change on the fly. I must say some of my favorite parts were probably listening to the bass solo and having these little subtle and tasteful effects, and percussions accent what he was doing, again, right on the note/beat.
My favorite setup is really a full group, Bass, Lead, Drums and Keys with a sequence running also. The drummer would be in charge of the sequences, and he had the click in the headset. Not having to worry about lighting cues or switching effects was great. Auto-muting of mics and instruments in between tunes, or during when appropriate, and being able to have an assortment of percussive and synth effects, just once in awhile, drop in, in perfect time was great. Of course if the sequence fails, no real harm. The tune(s) just end up being not as "enhanced" as they would have been.
Like anything else, it's all easy to over do and that's the trick. If someone really notices there is a sequence going, then in my opinion it's overdone.
Certain music lends itself to sequences, and a lot does not. I have seen some amazing one man bands tho where you really got so sucked into the vocal and guitar performance that you didn't even really notice the "full sound" that was coming from the sequence. On the other hand, I have seen some horrid performances where you kinda wonder why anyone is on the stage at all. I mean you CAN sequence Vocal tracks... and that borders on why not just play the CD. |
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OT - Too much technology??