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Location: montreal | As a huge fan of Ovation, I worry about them. It seems to me that they are quickly losing ground on other manufacturers. They seem to have been labeled as the 'starters guitar' and that bothers me. I think that the problem lies in the fact that they have not made any major changes to their line. Also, they release all these cheap korean stuff, which is alright but not quite up to par when it comes to the big boys of the bizz. I know about the tangent series and the ea & cv 68, but other than that all their stuff looks the same. Am I crazy or am I not alone in my concerns? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | You are right on the money.
read the would would like to see playing posts
Tell the president of Kaman Music what you think |
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Location: NJ | you are not crazy ...you have found the right place.
Many of us at this site have similar views. We are passionate about the guitars but have concern with market share, quality issues and overall acoustic sound.
If we keep a dialogue going here our collective voice may help to influence decisions re new models and old line models. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'm not sure the folks (we'll call them folks) at Ovation, realize how pationate people are about their instruments, and this is a great forum for reminding them. As with most large companies, it's hard to take the temp of your clients.
The rants AND the raves I think are seldom heard by the people that actually plan the ops at Ovation. Sure if a guitar is broke they hear about it, but I doubt they hear from all of the people that have been playing their instruments for over 35 years that may have suggeestions, and worse... I'm pretty sure they don't hear from the person that owned an Ovation for 10 years, decided to upgarde it, and ended up buying a Taylor.
So this is the place to rave about your favorites, rant about your not-so-favorites and maybe, just maybe, someone will hear ya. |
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Location: CT | Hopefully the Adamas Q will turn some people around. Ovation has always been up against traditionalist thinking, much like alternatives to Les Pauls and Strats and tube amps in the electric guitar world. But when something new really works, some part of the market share has to reconsider its prejudices. My brief impressions of the Q protos tell me people will *have* to listen to these with open ears, and stop with all the pycho-babble about wood vs plastic, traditional luthiery etc. Tone is tone. |
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Location: RI | Originally posted by s_mkheidze:
As a huge fan of Ovation, I worry about them. It seems to me that they are quickly losing ground on other manufacturers. They seem to have been labeled as the 'starters guitar' and that bothers me. I think that the problem lies in the fact that they have not made any major changes to their line. Also, they release all these cheap korean stuff, which is alright but not quite up to par when it comes to the big boys of the bizz. I know about the tangent series and the ea & cv 68, but other than that all their stuff looks the same. Am I crazy or am I not alone in my concerns? |
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Location: RI | Originally posted by s_mkheidze:
[QB]As a huge fan of Ovation, I worry about them. It seems to me that they are quickly losing ground on other manufacturers.
Hey dude..Unfortuantly untill you've been playing for a while...you don't really see past the "flash" and cheaper price of the korean instraments, which appeal to "less informed player" Admittedly almost fell into that trap myself,when purchasing my used 12string balldeer...but after doing a quick comparison between an americian balldeer and a korean celibrity, there was simply no contest.
Think it was Jimi Hendrix who said..."I don't play with teeth...I play with my ears"...
I've personally told many a aspiring guitar player...when shopping for a first instrament
line up the ovations in your price range and then close your eyes....after the worst sounding get cut...then start thinking about features,appearence...etc..
Happy playing... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Buy first with your pocketbook,
second your ears,
third your fingers
and fourth your eyes
not that I always do that!!! but it's a good guideline |
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Location: SoCal | I agree with Bill's criteria. I can't tell you the number of times that I've been in a guitar store, played my few hot licks and had somebody come up and ask if they should buy a cheap Martin or Taylor as their first guitar!
I always tell them to not listen to the salesmen, but to pick up a number of different guitars in their price range and see what puts a smile on their faces. That smile counts for a lot more than the salesmen's pitches. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I agree that the last thing you do is "look" at a guitar. If I did I never would have bought my used ovation which has finish cracks, or my used telecaster which has dents and dings. The price was what I could afford and they felt great. You just have to brave to get over the looks. Reminds me, as Bo Diddley said, you can't judge a book by looking at the cover. |
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Location: California | Takamine seems to have better reputation than Ovation nowaday. Kaman seems to be content with their current marketing strategy. It's sad !
Take a look at Taylor. They make a big deal out of their latest pickup system - ES! Marketing has to do with most of their success. |
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Location: Scotland | I heard the new Taylor pickup system being demonstrated at NAMM. Huge trade shows are never good places to evaluate acoustic instruments but Taylor had a large room upstairs, away from the noise of the main hall & a pretty big Mackie PA. Dan Crary demonstrated a standard Fishman-equipped Taylor then one of the new systems. The Fishman equipped guitar had the usual generic piezo tone, OK, but nothing special. The response by the audience to the new ES system struck me as a classic case of "Emperors New Clothes" While they all nodded approval I thought it sounded like the guitar was being played through a cheap microphone and actually preferred the Piezo. I'll reserve judgment until I can try one myself in better circumstances, but the NAMM demo left me underwhelmed. Rupert Neve has supposedly designed the preamp circuitry, which is a very shrewd move from a marketing standpoint.
Another pickup which is supposedly superior to Piezo is the Schertler BlueStick, which is a miniature undersaddle condenser mike. I spent some time on the Schertler stand at NAMM trying to get a decent sound out of a very nice guitar with one of these installed, again, to me it sounded like cheap mike. Piezo pickups have their faults & will never sound like a mike, but at least they produce good usable sounds. The Baggs I-beam is the best-sounding pickup I've heard, but it's feedback threshold is so low it's pretty much useless for live work. |
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| I guess they come out with new cheap korean models and colors cause it sells. Maybe if more people purchase "new(instead of vintage)" US made models, Kaman will have new designs and colors. I see alot of folks on this site suggesting others to buy vintage O's, but for me, I like to be the original owner. I just feel that newer O's don't get the respect they deserve. I apologize if I have offended anyone. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Here we go again!!
If you look at any major catalog or magazine you see 100's of companies trying to make their guitar the new THING. What has changed? Mass marketing, the attempt to sell guitars to a market that has absolutely no idea of what makes a good guitar, but only what the latest hyped rock star is playing. If you really think about it, how does a 15 year old kid decide how he is going to attract babes other than buying the hottest guitar as per the videos, (not withstanding that the video guitars are more than likely props). It's a two tier world, those that know and play instruments and those that are joining the latest fad. Ovations are good guitars, but at the moment they are not the bees knees, just be happy that you can buy the best of them for $1500.
Bailey |
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Location: UK | Interesting post. Are Ovation "quickly losing ground" to other manufacturers? I'll have to do some reasearch on the company especially as I'd got the impression that Ovation calims to be is the largest guitar manufacturer in the US, based on sales volume???? I'd assumed that this was because of the Korean angle upping their market share and revenues, which was a pretty good business decision if this is the case.
Looking at the passionate interest in this group, taken as a yardstick, I'd say Ovation are in a good position to compete alongside Gibson, Taylor and Martin in the acoustic/electro-acoustic space. The reason is value for money - a top end Adamas is still a helluva lot cheaper than a top end Gibson or Martin (not too sure about Taylor as I've never been too interested in them).
There's no doubt about the fact that Gibson and Martin have a longer musical heritage to trade on but Ovation has always been the imaginative "new kid on the block" and with an investment in marketing - and not necessarily new instruments - I don't see why they shouldn't maintain any commerical lead they may have. |
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Location: NJ | big louie
this thread is rather old. It has been discussed adnaseum that Ovation should have a high end guitar in their catalog as a show piece.
even if they only make 5 a year. How many PRS dragons are made a year? how many Martin d 45's are made a year?
This guitar will not only keep its value but be one that all may aspire to buy to have the Ovation/Adamas jewel. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | To gain a greater feel for their market, the Ovation company leaders miss out the important segment coming directly from this board. As a Rickenbacker enthusiast as well, I enjoy Rickenbacker CEO John Hall visiting the Ric board daily. He bears the inevitable criticisms well and is very in touch with his raving fans. While Rickenbacker products lag in R&D (perhaps like Ovation), the paying customers are complemented with support directly from the CEO. Try and get that out of Taylor / Martin / Gibson. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Gee, I wonder if the big guys of Kaman ever visit the board....
Say Hi Bill. |
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Location: Borrington | Please, Bill is not there anymore, and I wish HE was. Send Vice President Frank Undermyer a letter@ kamanmusic, c/o Hamer Gutiars or Mr. Saunders President of Kaman Music. The shape of things to come depend on recovering from the stock market bullshit that has wiped out 1 trillion dollars from us Americans. If people had 1)more cash these days, 2)better quality musical entertainment instead of that rap crap exposing kids to the folk rock of the 60's that I grew up on could bring back intrest to acoustic instruments. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | this topic seems to come up allot.
to me the korean guitars shouldn't be lumped into the ovation name. the guys in conn should continue the tradition of inovation and build THE ONLY OVATIONS. mercedes would lose it's image if it built a 10,000 car and called it a mercedes. by making a cheaper copy of something good it drags down the good. celebrity and applause should be different and like hamer a different company. the celebrity and applause aren't bad value, they just aren't ovations. |
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Location: So. Cal. | Oh, my favorite topic is back "again". I basically agree with most of the opinions expressed by other fellow members. My take on this subject is: Yes, Gibson and Martin have a long history, but Taylor is a relative new comer, and Takamine is just another decent (for an import) entry level guitar. Now it seems Taylor and Takamine have both come ahead of Ovation (company making EXPENSIVE high end guitars since the '60s). What's wrong with this picture? I used to see Ovation everywhere, major artists in Asia, Europe (don't even know their names), U.S. (Doobie Bros., P Simon, N Wilson, G Campbell to name just a few) since before I knew how to play the guitar. Whatever marketing approach you take, people look for hints from their musical idols. It's not just pure idol worship, it's also the style of music that people are trying follow. What's a better way than trying to make the same kind of sound as the original artist than using the same (or similar) equipment. How often do we see Ovation/Adamas guitars these on TV or in print (Ad's not counted)? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Hi Bill ( well he said to say it )
Ever notice that the best Ovation ads are the Dean Markley ones that have Ovations in them? |
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Location: Scotland | Yeah, but the best Dean Markley ads are the ones with semi-naked women in them |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Good points everyone
Russ
Did you or anybody you know buy any of those Caddilacs, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles that were based on the GM economy model. or Chevy pickups that looked an awful lot like Japan, Luvs, I think they were called? Cheapening the brand does not improve it, if it did, Budweiser could cross the Bud horses with Shetland ponies and save thousands on shipping. I say give the cheap copies some other name, but what do I know, I'm driving a 2 ton Suburban and loving every part of it's rugged and tough qualities.
Bailey |
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Location: High, in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado | Six years ago I bought a new 1868 Elite. It was in impeccable shape. Perfect! a 10 out of 10.
Last week, I received a new 1858 Elite drop shipped from the factory. It came with a nasty scratch on the back of the bowl, and glue on one of the epaulets.
If quality control says or means any thing, it does not look good for Ovation. It appears to me they are slipping. Of course, this is an isolated incident.
O' and not to mention cheapening of the product its self. My first Elite was made with a AAA top, and this last one with AA.
It looks like the way of things to come. I just hope they can stay in business.
Dale |
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Location: Seattle | Originally posted by TheEliteist:
Six years ago I bought a new 1868 Elite. It was in impeccable shape. Perfect! a 10 out of 10.
Last week, I received a new 1858 Elite drop shipped from the factory. It came with a nasty scratch on the back of the bowl, and glue on one of the epaulets.
If quality control says or means any thing, it does not look good for Ovation. It appears to me they are slipping. Of course, this is an isolated incident.
O' and not to mention cheapening of the product its self. My first Elite was made with a AAA top, and this last one with AA.
It looks like the way of things to come. I just hope they can stay in business.
Dale
So I'm waiting for one of you guys to explain to this gentleman that the reason his new Ovation is clearly inferior to his 6 year old Ovation...is marketing.
Tough Love,
Sonny |
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Location: NJ | as I understand current company policy prohibits employees to post on the message board on company time.
but I do know that they read us. that you can be sure of.
Just wanted to mention that many of you have sounded off about acoustic only ovations. I picked up a few acoustic only Adamas guitars meant for the export market. Not one person in the US has asked about them but I have had several requestions from europe and asia regarding those guitars.
So that brings us back to
Q "why build shallow bowl guitars?"
A Demand and they sell |
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Location: SoCal | Al:
That's an interesting comment about acoustic only Adamii. There was a time in my life when I saw no need for an acoustic electric, as I never intended to play in front of people.
Times change and now all my Ovations (except my 68 Deluxe Balladeer) are acoustic electrics. I probably wouldn't buy one that I couldn't plug in.
But that's not an exclusive thought to Ovations. Any guitar I buy, I want to be able to plug in.
But I also want it to sound good when it's not plugged in. Which means I want a deep body (ok, I could live with a mid depth bowl) and a great acoustic sound. Don't want it to sound like a Snailor or a Martinez or any of those. I've played enough Ovations to know that when Ovation puts it's mind to it, they can make a great acoustic sound -- thru the soundholes, not the amp. |
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Location: Scotland | And this is where it all falls apart. The factors that make an acoustic guitar inspiring and fun to play unplugged are exactly the factors which make it a nightmare to amplify. No single guitar will do both jobs well. The more I have to deal with noisy audiences and fuck-witted, deaf, so-called "sound engineers" who wouldn't know what an acoustic guitar is supposed to sound like if they were fucked in the ass with one, the more I feel like ordering 2 or 3 Vipers. Or retiring. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i played my adamas deep 6 string the other night at the club when i broke the high g on my ss adamas 12, two tunes into the night. i sent someone home to get me another guitar (i only live a short block fron the club) while i limped along kinda like driving a dually (12s are great in that regard). it was the first time i had gigged all night(4-45 min sets) with the 7 1/8 deep bowl. it was battle of the bulges, and man, did the old harley syndrome in the right shoulder start getting to me. you can't jusy lay it on the couch and take a cold pacifico break in the middle of a set. comfort at a gig is a point for ss that wins with me. they are as comfortable as an acoustic can get. i currently have only 2 ss guitars and love em both. the other is an 83 collectors series.
having said that i just bought a 6768 elite to gig with. we'll see------- |
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Location: Parkersburg, WV | Ovation has always had a history of being a company that has chosen to innovate as opposed to imitate. The original roundbacks were nice sounding guitars but there have always been nice sounding guitars. I feel what put them on the map was creating a workable acoustic/electric. When they came out in the '70s, everyone who owned an acoustic/only felt like they had "half a guitar". Later on they gave us the Adamas/Elites, a unique original design in its own right.
I guess my point is that there may not be any more great original contributions to the acoustic guitar, from Ovation or anyone else. What can they do? Improved electronics? Exotic woods? Fancier inlays or accents? I personally can't think of anything the company can do to achieve that "I got to have one of those" status like they did with the first acoustic/electrics. They may have to settle for being a company that will produce a variety of guitars at various prices and hope they can survive with all the others.
Patsbro |
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Location: Scotland | Absolutely. Original contributions to acoustic guitar design?.......Antonio Torres, Herman Hauser, CF Martin, Orville Gibson, Lloyd Loar, maybe the Larsons, The Dopyera Brothers, Charlie Kaman..... I'm struggling now. I can't think of anything significant since |
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Location: SoCal | Les Paul? Leo Fender? |
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Location: Parkersburg, WV | Paul T.
On second thought, maybe your "Custom" Folklore will be the design that will change things around!
Patsbro |
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Location: Scotland | Moody, both, though mostly Leo, contributed to the development of solidbodies, not acoustics.
Pats, that's a design "tweak" rather than an original. It's on the way, mid July according to the UK distributor |
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Location: SoCal | Ah, yeah. |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | What about that new Rainsong that came out? The all graphite wonder that looks like a normal guitar made of graphite? Two grand will put one in your lap. Innovation or alteration?
Chuck |
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Location: Scotland | Original? innovative? Maybe. Or maybe not....Rainsong, CA, Emerald (which are embarrasing) Chrysalis and the rest are following Charlie's lead with Carbon Fibre which he started with the Adamas in the mid 70's, and unlike the Adamas none are currently widely known or established in the global marketplace, so we'll see. By the way, the new Rainsmog is made offshore & has a carbon top with laminated mahogany back & sides. The ones I tried at NAMM were OK |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think whilst everyone is trying to make their point (and I'm about to do the same) some of the original and side commentary of this thread I think needs to be addressed.
- Although the folks at the Factory don't post much (we have seen some of them here) they do read. At least TWO guitars were released based on the commentary ON THIS BOARD. I am curious to how many have of us actually puchased those. And before anyone asks, I HAVE and Elite T and an MOB and a 2001 Collectors. I thought the special Foklore is an outstanding guitar because it doesn't have any controls. Perfect for gigging, but I don't need one, but if I was gigging I would try to find one, no question, no matter the price.
- Many Many Many folks asked for a deep bowl Acoustic Only guitars to be in the USA. Al has stated a few times that he has them, and he is getting inquires from Europe and Asia.
- The opinions on the imports run deep, varied and wide, but they are one of the best selling guitars on the market.. Ovation or otherwise.
- If Ovation built a guitar, maybe the Q, and it sounded the way it should for a high-end guitar, how many people here would pay $8000.00 for it?
It's all nice that we have our dream guitars we;d like to see, but this thread is/was about the future. I think you will be very VERY suprised that if you look at all the Ovation guitars this group of 1500 people have owned and especially bought, you will see Ovation marketing may be right on the money. They are making guitars that people buy and enjoy. I think they can make even better guitars, that of course would be more expensive, but, using this group of 1500 avid fans as the baseline, I'm not so sure anyone would buy them at this point... and if they aren't going to be bought, played and enjoyed.... why make them?
just my 3 cents. |
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| “The times they are a-changin”. God I love this song! The words are as timeless today as they were in 1964 when Bob Dylan put them to vinyl and released them on an album by the same name. Within a year of this historic album, two obscure artists named Oliver Andrews and Charlie Kaman released an album called ‘The Tails of Ranger Andy.’ It was a compilation of Aesop’s Fables put to music for children. But, unlike Dylan’s album, this one would be lost in obscurity. Yet Dylan’s music and the fables of Aesop are alive and well today and serve to guide and remind us of the universal truths that continue to shape our destinies.
To know the future of Ovation is to know the future of the modern guitar. History has shown that the success of an instrument manufacture is directly related to its contribution to innovations in instruments it produces. Today, virtually all the guitar companies trace their success back to this idea that the company was born of innovation and technology where bottoms up management ruled. When the innovation stopped, the company survives on a top down management style as it struggles to avoid irrelevance and another innovative idea comes along.
With a good sense of history and some inductive reasoning, seeing future innovations in the guitar may not be as difficult as it sounds as somewhere another Charley Kaman squints to see that future as it races towards us all.
So what is the future of the modern guitar? I think I have an answer that may be worth betting on but it’s past my bedtime so I’ll save it for a later posting. However, for those that would like to think ahead on this, a hint. The next generation of guitar will have ten vicissitudes as its heart. It will be full of unexpected and surprising changes, mutations or permutations that will change the guitar, as we know it today in a profound and exciting way. Between the time Dylan and Charley recorded their albums, the Baldwin Music Company opened a plant to build pianos in Arkansas. After 35 years that plant closed and if you understand the fundamental reason behind that closure you will began to see the pattern of fortuitous events that is likely leading us to the heart of the next generation of guitar.
Mike |
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Location: NJ | Baldwin was bought by Gibson after they could not buy the Samick factory in Korea. I believe that Baldwin was part of the Samick company at the time.
Gibson has a bad history of buying companies, some that seem to be competitors some that are not and after milking them dry closing them up.
Tobias, baldwin, trace eliott, steinberger, oberheim, optacode (sp) and I may have missed a couple. This is primarily done IMHO to get the r & D from the company and use it on their main product brands Givsung and Eptihorn.
flender on the other hand has aquired Jackson/Charvel. Gretsch, Benedetto, Guild, traveler guitar (may not be the name of the company) x factor (again may not be the name of the company and Sunn the only one that did not really do well was xfactor and sunn. rumor is they recently bought swr which may help to improve the quality of what I feel is currently a very shoddy product with a decent name. The early swr stuff was great and the early stuff they made for groove tubes was also great!
These buyouts seems to be a way to keep companies alive and a way to kill competition. it all depends on the goal of the parent company. Make a lot of money buy a company let it go under write it off and make more money on your bottom line or buy out a company nurture it it and make even more money. It can go either way. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | miles, i was interested in the guitars released being influenced by this board. since i am out of the loop re seeing advertising, please fill me in. also i am not sure what the special controless folklore is. are these new releases being advertised? |
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Location: NJ | The Elite T - an affordable, US-made A/E guitar.
The Folklore Deluxe - a deep (mid?), slotted head A/E with an endpin jack and no controls. Only 50 made. TonyPD (lucky bastard!) won one on the Tour. |
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| Al, you’re starting to get to the root of it. But why would a 140-year-old world leader in the Piano business ever let itself get bought out? Did it know something others didn’t? Could it have foreseen its future and the perfect storm that was brewing? A storm that had started in the 1930’s fueled by a man named Ben Meissner.
‘Amen and amen’, said Danny DeVito in the Movie Other Peoples Money. I say amen because what I’ve been hearing sounds more like a prayer for a dying company.
If you listen to the people that that look up the ticker symbol KAMNA every day you may also hear a prayer along with a lot of cussing. If you had bought ten thousand shires of Kaman one year ago you would be about fifty thousand in the read today. And I suspect you wouldn’t care if Kaman built guitars, Helicopters or buggy whips.
You bought Kaman to make money! Their was a time we all needed buggy whips and I’m sure that the last buggy whip company built the best dam buggy whip every made. It survived to the end by buying out the completion or producing a better buggy whip than its competitors giving it a bigger and bigger share of a smaller and smaller market as Henry F. was tinkering in his garage and another perfect storm was brewing.
Although the whole music division of Kaman is only 16% of the company it was the only part of the company that was a blood donor last year to help stop the bleeding from the aerospace, helicopter divisions. And what was the biggest contributor to its music business? Not Ovation. Kaman ‘acquired’ Latin Percussion, Inc., a leading global distributor of Latin hand percussion instruments.
So as not to loose sight of my statement that to know the future of Ovation is to know the future of the modern guitar, one could ask if there was a perfect storm brewing for it also? Have some seen the future and are thinking of selling out or is another Charlie Kaman about to make a stand and build a new hi-Tec ship that can whether a pending storm to immerge on the other side as the guitar of tomorrow?
More later,
Mike |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Well
Up steps the Line 6 Variax that intimates that one guitar can be every vintage guitar that you have lusted for, combined with an amp with modeling that can be every amp that was lusted for. All that is lacking is the talent of a Glen C, a Chet, a Doc Watson, a Django, a Charley Christian, a Van Zandt, a Willie, a Roy Clark, a Buck Owens and Don Rich, etc.. No instrument, no matter how great it sounds, can replace talent. It is likely that one of Russ's students, playing a cheap mexican guitar, may lead us to the next guitar that we HAVE TO HAVE to be a star.
Bailey (the talent is in the picker, not the guitar) |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | bailey, maybe not the one who's $20 guitar i fixed with a sheetrock screw a couple of weeks ago (waste of a good screw). |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Russ
You never know, some are totally unable to play, some will eclipse their teacher. When you find yourself playing rythym to some spectacular picking, you know you've seen the future. When they also show all kinds of frailties, like too much dope and too much drinking, you know you've seen the present.
I have the article on Sotol in my hand and this is what it says;
" After the leaves are chopped off, the remaining heads or pinas of the sotol plant are baked in an earthen oven sealed with lava rock and palm leaves"
To me that gaurantees that this will replace tequela as the drink of the pueblo.
Viva La Mexico
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | Much like any other item for sale, the us/world economy, trend, popularity, etc all play a part on what makes a manufacturer popular.
You can take a trend and kill it by either buying out a company or directly competing with it.
In the 80's flendor almost went under because they refused to mess with the strat. As soon as they realized that the only way to survive was to import strats and to add many models to their strat line they became a force in the market place again. Why buy a kramer/anderson/mighty mite/schector/hamer/jackson/ibeenhad/etc etc etc when you can get a flendor how you want it.
The role of the imports in Ovations opens up the product line in the price range of students and semi pros who cannot afford the usa instrument.
What has been discussed adnauseum here is the need for a high end product. A product that everyone aspires to own. pms draguns are highly sought after and cost a fortune. why? a lot of ugly inlay mystique and marketing. How many do they make a year? probably not many but who cares it is a catalog item. To say you will build whatever the customer wants is one thing but to actually put something in the line and say yes folks this is the top of the line, it gets no better than this, this is the one you sell your wife, kids and soul for, is important in positiong of the product as a high end product worthy of aspiration.
As a kid I would look at the flendor catalogs and dream of owning a jaguar. NOt because I liked the sound or how it played but because it was put up as their top of the line solidbody. The same went for the archtops. No one ever told me that they were crap. But that did not matter. they were in the catalog, the local stores did not have them so they had to be good....make that great. |
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Location: NJ | ibeenhad. LOL!! :D |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Al
50 years of guitar music was played on the "flendor" in the solid body world, you didn't even mention the Ovation solid bodies that many of us feel would challange, and beat the "flendors". |
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| Al,
That’s all so true. Marketing and perception are very powerful tools. Thayer most powerful for those who are least knowledgeable and even those most knowledgeable about a product did not escape what now is remembered clearly as a fools purchase on they way up the learning curve.
Indeed it is more likely that for those that feel Ovation or any company has changed for the worse can attributed it to a change in their own perception and a more discriminating opinion based on their increased knowledge about the subject than that company has actually changed. Its more likely that their favorite company didn’t just get up one morning an say ‘lets start build some crap!’ but that it has always built some crap and just now your beginning to recognize it.
But back to the reason I started posting on this thread. I think with a little thought we came up with the next generation guitar. While keeping in mind how powerful marketing and perception are and how, as Bailey pointed out a guitar only sounds as good as the person playing it, lets get started!
So where do we start? At the beginning of course and I thin with out taking our eye off the ball a brief look at music from the beginning of time when the first bird whistled a tune or the Timber Wolf that first broke the silence of the night with his long and lonesome minor cord lament to first cave man beating a leg bone a hollow log to the technology of the Line 6 Variax would serve to point out a couple of fundamental things we need to keep in mind if we are going to build a truly new and exciting instrument.
The physics of the music and the musical instrument have not changed. To make a noise by some mechanical means and then to manipulate the rhythm and frequency of that noise seems to be the Idea that we are going to have to go with. The next important thing we can take from history is that the more people that cane here the noise the more desirable and successful it is. Dose that mean ‘the louder the better’? Well maybe. From the phonograph to the CD, from the acoustic guitar to the amp towers at the ballgames, technology has turned the musician and instrument in to something that know one could have imagined a couple of hundred yeas ago. Bailey pointed out in his posting about the Line 6 Variax “in my years of playing, I have never heard an applause for an instrument, but have heard thunderous applause for a well played song.” This was very well said in the context of the point he was making but it is just as valid in the context of this point. With out the recording and amplification innovations we enjoy in the music business today it is unlikely that ‘thousands’ could applaud a song, well played or not.
Its late and I’ve got to get some sleep but I have one last comment on something else Bailey said when he said, “that the player makes the sound, not the guitar”. You may be right. After hearing a song sung by her pet canary, Maya Angelou wrought these words. How is it that such a small artist can produce such a well-played song on such a small and simple god given instrument as to communicate and inspire someone in such a profound way is beyond me?
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
A free bird leaps on the back of the wind
and floats downstream till the current ends
and dips his wing in the orange suns rays and dares to claim the sky.
But a bird that stalks down his narrow cage
can seldom see through his bars of rage
his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing.
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
of things unknown but longed for still
and his tune is heard on the distant hill
for the caged bird sings of freedom.
The free bird thinks of another breeze
and the trade winds soft through the sighing trees
and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn and he names the sky his own.
But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams
his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream
his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing.
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
of things unknown but longed for still
and his tune is heard on the distant hill
for the caged bird sings of freedom.
Mike |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | So tell me, does all this mean my recently purchased Celeb.12 string is basically unfit to use for firewood here in the good 'ol USA?!
When a long lost relative dies and leaves me a fortune, I'll get me an "acceptable" piece of Americana. I guess in the mean time, I'll hide in a closet, lick my wounds, and scratch out an S.O.S. on my roundbacked bonsi branch. Or, step out once in a while when I'm feeling my oats, and apologetically strum my cracked vintage acoustic only Legend?
Norse(I think not!)man1
- seems to me the reason Ovation got started, was the pompous attitude of the standard not willing to lower it's nose far enough to see below it's belt. |
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Location: NJ | ". . . my roundbacked bonsi branch . . ."
Actually the term is "bonsai", but no, technically yours would be a "kim-chi pot" ;) .
Don't worry about it Norsey, it's STILL an Ovation.
Shut up and ENJOY it, will ya'? :) |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | lol Cliff! I'm just having fun. Believe me, I am very much looking forward to my new 12. I'm not offended, more amused.
Norse(having lunch at "China Buffet" today,hopenoones offended ;) )man1
p.s. kim-chi pot lol! |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | Norse, have you ever eaten any kimchi? One of the first things I learned when I got to Korea was the smell of Kimchi. I could smell it in the air as I stepped off the plane. There are many different kinds of kimchi in Korea. There are so many that there is a kimchi museum in Seoul. And yes, I tried many different types of kimchi while I was over there. Maybe you will get lucky. Stick your nose inside your new 12-string, and maybe you can still smell the kimchi. :)
Chuck
Still looking for a 12-string of my own while trying hard not to be jealous of Norseman for getting one. :rolleyes: |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | Yes, looking forward to Kimchi time!
Good Luck,and if you go cheap like ol Norseman, give me a call, perhaps we could get together, share a cold pop and a couple of (deep)bowls of Kim chi.
Norse(chop chop fer now)man1 |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | Norseman1, have you ever eaten any kimchi? Have you even smelled kimchi before? If I get lucky on Ebay this round, or find a 12-string somewhere that I can afford, I would really enjoy geting together with you to strum along together, share a few cold cokes, and have a few bites of kimchi with you. I am trying once again on ebay for a Custom Balladeer. Maybe God will smile on me for this one. If not, I keep praying that He will have a special Ovation 12-string somewhere out there for me. Life's too short to have hard feelings with anyone, especially a member of this board. :cool:
Chuck |
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Location: Borrington | I am a dreaming of a studio at Ovation recording and makin vidios for mtv, starin the best geetarists at OVATION. After work of course. A good investment for Kaman Music Vidy"O's" GET IT! open mike in enginerring, produced by Ovation/HAMER bring back the camera's.I am to futureistic and can not spell. Web cam roamin around, solO'S in every dept.wE Could have Millisa
in the new studio singing with an Adamas 6 string #72 or ol #6, and Adrian Legg. And we pay them.I WANT Kaki King miked up real loud!!!!!!!! |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Norsey
I said nobody applauds the guitar, your Korean guitar will play just fine. Our band has had thunderous applause while playing instruments from every where but here. The pickers make the music and could care less where those thangs were made, you don't take a vintage, collector's guitar on a dive pickin' job.
Chill out and Pick, don't COLLECT. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | but, bailey, it's hard not taking the good uns to gigs. even the novices in the audience notice quality sound. and i always like the look on bubba's face when his martin can't cut through the mix like my o's and a's. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Got me there Russ. |
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the future of Ovation.....