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Location: New Hampshire, USA | I've thought about asking this question a few times, but worried that I'd come across as a cranky old curmudgeon. But I'm asking anyway.
Why in the world did Ovation associate themselves with Nikki Sixx and produce such a butt-ugly guitar?
"Ovation" and "Heroin Diaries" don't belong in the same sentence.
I don't get it. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | That question has already been discussed by several other cranky old curmudgeons on this board. |
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Location: NJ | I would assume:
1. Money
c. t'Not be the stereotypical guitar of cranky, old curmudgeons. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I went into my favorite, independent music store the other day and was horrorfied to see one of the "heroin" Celebs sitting in front of all the other Ovations on the rack. This guy still has an MOB tangent thing sitting around for the last 4 years and then he brings in this piece of crap.
Mixed in with the row of crap are a couple nice enough LXs and a beautiful '06 koa collector.
It's not my business and it's none of my business but if it mattered I'd suggest that he will never sell that koa collector or an LX when they are surrounded by.... by... by all that steaming, wet & stinky dog spoo. (comparativly speaking)
On the other hand, I'm sure that "we" are not the targeted demographic for this model. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The marketing folks probably have something like that on their demographics lists. Guitars are cheaper than RVs, though, and they don't need gas, so maybe they should start marketing to senior citizens. |
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Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
The marketing folks probably have something like that on their demographics lists. Guitars are cheaper than RVs, though, and they don't need gas, so maybe they should start marketing to senior citizens. Guitars may not need gas ,but, they sure produce G.A.S. ;) |
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Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
That question has already been discussed by several other cranky old curmudgeons on this board. I did a search first and came up with practically nothing, so that's why I asked. |
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Location: Jet City | If Ralph Steadman had done the artwork, maybe it would have been more interesting. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | There is a sensationally huge market made up of pre and early teen buyers who have nothing to spend mom and dad's money on except whatever consumables du jour may be popular that day. Cheap pop culture on the fly. The profits are just too incredible to pass up. |
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| Nikki Sixx is a member here. Under his pseudonym he is the current OFC member of the year so we don't criticize.
But we don't like the guitars. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | My first response to the Heroin Diaries guitar was "Why glorify Heroin?"
Next response was, "Give a used Celebrity to a bunch of stoned folks with a pack of Sharpies and get something original!"
Why would I want a "Unique" guitar that is exactly like hundreds of others exactly like it? |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Why would I want a "Unique" guitar that is exactly like hundreds of others exactly like it? The same reason millions of teenage boys bleach their hair white to show their 'individuality'? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | You guys... I'm already having serious issues realizing I have lived past my expiration date. Conversations like these don't make me feel any better about it. |
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Location: closely held secret | Look at it this way, Miles - our expiration date is stamped on our birth certificate. We all be on BONUS time now! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | RE: "I did a search first and came up with practically nothing, so that's why I asked."
Search the Keyword "click"
How many Helicopters did Kaman sell by promoting them laying on an American Flag?
Miles - Let the young demographic purchase the Offshore Spoo and we will have to support the USA products. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
marketing Bingo!  |
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Location: Chicago | The copy for the ad is not so bad, actually:
”The stunning [?] graphic on the top, designed by world-renowned artist PR Brown, is applied on spruce and married to a super shallow body to provide exceptional acoustic balance and projection. The NS28-HD also features many other distinctive Ovation characteristics including a thin profile neck, vibration sensitive Slimline pickup and the OP4BT preamp with a built-in tuner. Twenty-five percent of Sixx’s royalties from the guitar will go to Running Wild In The Night, a charity he established in conjunction with Covenant House to rescue homeless and runaway youth from the streets.” |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The nice thing about being a "world-renowned artist" is that you can scribble any bit of crap on a napkin and it is called "Art"! :p |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
The nice thing about being a "world-renowned artist" is that you can scribble any bit of crap on a napkin and it is called "Art"! :p Except David Bowie's art. I saw a show on famous musicians and their art (drawing/painting type art). Most of it was dog spoo, but DB can really wield a paint brush. |
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Location: GA USA | I'm still waiting for Ovation to ask me to draw on a guitar.
Martin has the Felix the Cat guitar. We could make a cartoon llama guitar.
I guess I'm world renowned. People in England and Australia have heard of me. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I really liked the Beijing 2008 Celebrity with the drunk Panda passed-out with the torch on it.
This coming from the man with the Orange Flame T...
The coolest thing about that T is people either Really Like it, or Really Really Hate it. |
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Location: GA USA | But put a llama on it and everybody will love it. |
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Location: Tennessee | From day one, Ovation was the company that made the edgy, weird guitars. Why are its most loyal supporters now complaining that Ovation is still doing those things that made them into one of the premier guitar makers in the world?
Man, if Ovation brought out the breadwinner today this board would be crucifying them. Sheesh. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Cuz we were edgy and weird back then? I'm still weird, but I lost my edge. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Gotta agree with Bobbo. Let's not be so ossified.
Q:Why in the world did Ovation associate themselves with Nikki Sixx and produce such a butt-ugly guitar?
A:To sell guitars. To some of us, they are not ugly.
Q:"Ovation" and "Heroin Diaries" don't belong in the same sentence.
A:As I understand it, those diaries are ultimately a story of redemption. This comment is off base.
Q:I don't get it.
A:If you only look at it from the stand point of his drug addled years, yeah, I don't get it either, but if it's as I believe, that this guy pulled himself from the brink, then I think it's wonderful Ovation had the guts to associate themeselves with him. Power to them, and I hope Fender has as much guts too. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Not every Ovation model will appeal to everyone. There's quite a few that I would prefer not to own. There's quite a few that I would love to own. Pick what makes you happy and leave the rest for someone else.
Dave |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | From day one, Ovation was the company that made the edgy, weird guitars Aww, surely not... :eek: :D ;)
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Location: south east Michigan | I'm going to drift a bit here but I think it's still on topic.
I never have understood this glorification of those who have "pulled themselves back from the brink." These guys (Nikki Six) have been put forth as some kind of great example for people to admire and emulate. Just once I'd like one of these guys to end their story of drug abuse and the party lifestyle with a strong emphasis on avoiding it in the first place rather their "heroic' journey back.
These "drug celebrities" have an advatage over the common unfortunate addict they are preaching to... an abundance of resourses like money and managers.
I guess these thoughts have dampend my ablilty to appreciate this "edgy" new guitar model.
Miles... don't sweat the aging process. I don't have the same thoughts and opinions I had 30 years, or even 15 years ago and I won't want to. Just time spent on the planet is bound to give you alternate views. Those of us closer to our experation date should be valued like some kind of old growth forest. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm with you, Brad. I always related to the other son in the prodigal son parable.
How many did he take with him that he didn't bring back? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'm with Bobbo and an4340 on this.
The intolerance (which I usually just call ignorance but I thought I would be polite) of things people don't understand so they choose to berate it, is a constant source of amazement for me.
In this example, "Nikki Sixx with an Ovation." That sentence alone translates to sales. The word "heroine" gotcha to look too... more sales... some people actually dug deeper to find out about the Charity... even MORE guitar sales.. AND more money going to a good cause...
I'm sorry... just not seeing a downside of any of this. Nice to see marketing going after artists that mean something to the under 50 crowd, yes under FIFTY!!!
Nikki Sixx is MY generation. I'm 50. This guitar and his story is targeted at ME and people like me who are Crue fans and Sixx fans. Sure they certainly have a younger following too, but when Motley Crue tours, there are probably more folks in the 30-50 range than the 21-30 range, and likely under 21 is limited to those with fake id's.
So for those in their 50's and 60's who say they "just don't get it"... where the hell were you in the 80's ????
Let the flames begin... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | FWIW
Nikki will be 50 this year.
Mick will be 57.
Vince is 47
Tommy is the baby at 45 |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Miles, total agreement with you and Bobbo and an4340.
Brad, if you read any of the journals or biographies etc., most of them have no money when they are crawling out of their personal hell. It was either all spent on their lifestyle and drugs or unscrupulous hanger-ons relieved them of it.
Fortunately for some of them, residuals eventually provide them with an income stream and allow them to get back on their feet.....
Why did they do it in the first place? The R&R lifestyle....the beautiful women who lay a white line down their navel and tell you to come and get it...the constant temptations. Most of these guys went from rags to riches so the excess was part of the success. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Good thing for me I'm only 48...
I'm trying to block out the 80's thank you very much. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm just mature for my age. I had no idea Nikki was that old, nor did I even know who he was until he showed up on the ad. I had heard of Motley Crue, however, but that's about it. I never cared for that type of music. If Ovation wants to sell guitars to that group fine.
I don't like a lot of stuff, like Death Metal, Goths, tatoos and body peircings. I don't think that my dislike or my expression of dislike is intolerance or ignorance, except in the sense that "intolerance" means the opposite of tolerating in silence. Expressing opinions of dislike or displeasure is not intolerance.
As I've said many times, I didn't really like much of the music of the 80s, so I listened to other stuff, worked and raised a family. Motley Crue wasn't relevant to any of that. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well put Mark.. That's the kind of post I can understand and respect, so it obviously wasn't you that set off my rant. :)
I guess I just wish more had your attitude to that which they don't like or understand. |
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Location: Jet City | My eldest son's mother was a HUGE Sixx fan and because of that is why my eldest has the name he does.
At least I could get her away from having his legal name Nikki. It's Nicholas. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Miles, it's very hard to argue against a position that you don't understand. I've learned something in 30 years.
I have never understood people's tastes in food, music, most other forms of entertainment, hockey (although I think it's because it's one of the few sports I never played), politics or religion, so I don't try to argue about any of those things.
Tatoos and body piercings are incomprehensible to me. My wife and I are currently arguing about landscaping and I am thinking about letting her "win" the argument by taking the chain saw to the forest that I have planted in our yard. There's no arguing with people's tastes. Damon likes bold reds, I like sweet whites and beer. I don't like gas hog vehicles and borrowing money. Turns out I was right about those.
P.S. I noticed that intolerance seems to increase with age. We need to be careful. |
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Location: New Hampshire, USA | For the record, I'm 46, enjoy much of the music from the 80s, and remember Motley Crue quite well. I never thought much of them, but taste is subjective.
My point in starting this thread was not to denigrate Mr. Sixx, but to question why Ovation partnered with him when there are so many other more respected musicians from that era.
And yes I do think the guitar is butt-ugly and that's a subjective thing, but I bet more people agree with me than not.
As for the "heroin diaries" aspect of it, I do think it would've been wiser for Ovation not to hook their horse onto that particular wagon. It could be thought of as an endorsement or glorification of that lifestyle by people who only interpret things with a glance.
Great that Sixx cleaned up, but again - why not honor someone who didn't have to drag themselves back from the edge of destruction because they kept themselves clean in the first place?
I'm reminded of a Chris Rock bit in which he talks about Oprah's audience applauding the junky deadbeat dad who eventually cleaned up and came back to support his family. Meanwhile the other dad on the stage who was there for his family from day one gets no applause... |
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Location: Jet City | Honestly, the fact that Mark not only rode with me to Miles' place, then actually accepted a ride BACK after the event speaks VOLUMES on his "tolerance". We couldn't be more different, except for the love of the roundbacks. It's probably a good thing I didn't have tattoos or piercings though. Or maybe he just didn't want to take a bus.
Mark, you might be right on the gas hogs and borrowing, but you're off kilter on the wine. |
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Location: Jet City | Originally posted by scooterboy:
My point in starting this thread was not to denigrate Mr. Sixx, but to question why Ovation partnered with him when there are so many other more respected musicians from that era. Taylor already got to everyone else :D |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "there are so many other more respected musicians from that era."
I'd be interested to see who's on your list.
"the guitar is butt-ugly and that's a subjective thing, but I bet more people agree with me than not."
Maybe, have no real way of knowing, but I bet they sell nearly every one they make, which is what's really important. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I just tried to come up with a list of "popular/respected" 80's era guitar players that are both still alive and still putting out new material. I'm coming up pretty short. Add "and play an Ovation" and the word "list" becomes a bit of an exaggeration. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I don't think that my dislike or my expression of dislike is intolerance or ignorance, except in the sense that "intolerance" means the opposite of tolerating in silence. Expressing opinions of dislike or displeasure is not intolerance.
Thank You Mark!!! ... that is the exact thought I was trying to put together while you were typing it out.
I can understand what Ovation is looking for with such a strategy. Miles stated it very clearly in a very unemotional, almost math like equation that boils down to.... money. I "get" that part.
"""""" The intolerance (which I usually just call ignorance but I thought I would be polite) of things people don't understand so they choose to berate it is a constant source of amazement for me."""""
I confess that I am intolerant of drug abuse and I’ll berate it every chance I can. And I hope I don’t have to do drugs to fully understand them.
I’m not a Motley fan by any means. That said, there are a lot of artists whose music I like who have done very, very stupid things with alcohol and drugs. I am intolerant of their drug use and I berate them for it.
And I am comfortable and confident in my own heart and mind that I do "get it".
Miles... I'd be interested to read any responce but let's be careful or else we'll both end up with a vacation from Al. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | emulate an American icon like Johnny Cash. |
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Location: new jersey | well, i don't like it nor would i buy one. guess i'm just old as well. as for nikki, glad he made it back. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by stephent28:
emulate an American icon like Johnny Cash. and yes....that was sarcastic! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Scooterboy, don't be concerned if you rocked the boat a bit. I was just thinking that we hadn't had a passionate discussion about anything on topic in awhile. This one was getting a bit quiet until Miles stirred it up. This board is about Ovation, so it's good to have diverse opinions about Ovation guitars. Imagine that.
Brad and I are too much alike to have an interesting discussion, but I draw the line at grass skirts and cocoanut bras.
The main difference between Damon and me is that I don't still carry a picture of me from my longhair days. That and he plays killer electric guitar and I play so-so acoustic. |
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Location: Jet City | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
The main difference between Damon and me is that I don't still carry a picture of me from my longhair days. That and he plays killer electric guitar and I play so-so acoustic. You had hair? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Ohhhhh SNAP! |
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Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
"there are so many other more respected musicians from that era."
I'd be interested to see who's on your list. Well there are many with whom Ovation could have started an affiliation with, but putting them aside how about a new Nancy Wilson model, or a new Brian May model? |
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Location: Jet City | Mark-ley Crue
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I got noth'n...
I'm a much bigger fan of Nancy Wilson and Brian May than of Nikki Sixx, but if they came out with a signature model for either, I'd react with a "oh that's nice" much like a new Melissa model. I guess someone like Nikki Sixx or Mick Thomson is unexpected and just by that very nature draws more interest... at least from me.
Maybe that's the whole reasoning. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I had real hair. It only looked like that when I "slept wrong". |
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Location: south east Michigan | I had long hair once.
Yes once... a long, long time ago. |
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I have to ask...