|
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 25
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Since I always play guitar alone, I don't have anyone to confirm or dismiss this question. Is it possible for the relative tone and volumne of an instrument to change slightly depending on the relative humidity and temperature? I live in north Florida and take my guitar outdoors in the evenings and play. This time of the year it can be either cool or warm, damp or dry (in any combination). Seems to me that the guitar(s) sound better at times, but I haven't discovered an actual pattern. Or may be my imagination. Any ideas? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | absolutely !!!! a warm dry night the sound will carry for ever a damp humid night it is like playing in a box.
The top can soak up humidity and not vibrate the way it should and sound differenet. I am not so sure if the changes are drastic I would think they are more subtle but they are changes just the same. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | here is a link explaining some of the rules which apply to the propagation of sound.
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Sound_Propagation.html
probably more than you want to know, but this is the physics of it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | HEY AL, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!! Now can you tell us how the wet bulb and dry bulb effert humidity.Whats dew point?Does my slot head Adamas sound better in Texas or Florida? (just kidding) :rolleyes: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | because of the makeup of the Adamas there would be little if any effect.
you lost me with wet bulb? what are you referring to? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Air temperature & density will affect the speed of sound, though this is hardly an issue when your ears are inches away from the guitar, given that the speed of sound at room temperature is around a foot per millisecond. It's more to to with the hygroscopy of the soundboard. I once had a cedar-topped guitar which lost volume & projection in damp weather, that isn't going to happen with an Adamas.
Paul |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, i was just kidding!!!! Actually dry bulb and wet buld is how you get humidity readings.You get a sling phsycrometer and you get the wet bulb and dry buld reading and avg. it out to get the percent of relative himid ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz
Sorry, i put myself to sleep!!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | I know you are kidding looks like I learned how to measure humidity...go back to sleep.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Forgive me, I had to scroll up to the top of the page to see where I was. For a second I thought I miss-clicked and wound up on the webpage of the Tex Antoine School of Meterology or Jonathan Nash's "Phun with Physics" page.
Hey, 12 Bar: Perhaps when it's a nice comfortable evening you FEEL better, hence you possibly PLAY better, ergo maybe you SOUND better.
(Note: the obscure reference to Tex Antoine - a local New York weatherman/drunk in the 60'-70's who used to draw little cartoon characters during his weather forecasts. Got thrown off the air for making an "off colour" remark about the preceding news (rape case) story. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Hey Neighbor,
Technically the humidity might change something but I'm not sure we can really hear it. Now I have noticed when I sit out in the screen poarch under the big ceiling fan, that will make the sound funny, particularly the high strings. Took me a month to figure out it was the fan! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 255
| If you are playing through an amp the speakers soak up moisture. Adamas`s are less likely. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | No amp, Don't plug it in, Play it straight!
Actually I was playing an old National and the fan gives the high strangs a leslie effect, sortof. Couldn't figure out why it kept sounding out of tune. Then it turned into a pile of rust on my right knee. All that Fla humidity! At least we don't have to shovel it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Bill, you could be on to something here. Cut a big hole in the back of your National (or three holes if it's a tricone) & put in some of those little battery operated fans. A resonator guitar with an onboard leslie effect!!!!! Don't cut up a new one, get one of those beat up '30's ones, you could could experiment with the fan speeds and..........hang on ..... the drugs are beginning to wear off.....I need to go and lie down for a while |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | when it was really cold and still on the north slope up in alaska (technically a desert) you could hear people talking a couple hundred feet away. cold dry dense air. remember the highschool physics demo where you put a ringing wind up alarm clock in a bell jar and draw a vacuum. the alarm gets quieter until it has no sound at all near a complete vacuum. take a tuning fork and touch it to one end of a 20' bar of a 1/2" steel bar and put your ear to the other end. the denser steel conducts the sound better than air. density isnt a reliable measure of sound conductance however. lead is used for sound insulation and it is much more dense than steel. alot has to do with the ability of the substance to transfer wave motion. as a wave moves through the ocean or the air, the molecules don't move with it. if a wave starts in hawaii, the breaker crashing on californias shore isnt hawaiian water. currents and winds move water but waves don't. wave propagation is complicated and it is difficult to compare apples and oranges. there are just too many variables.
bill, rusty strings are a real pain here too. if i play at a beach party and dont spray the strings before and after i can kiss them goodbye after 1 use. unfortunatly because of this i don't buy the strings i'd like to and buy the stuff on sale. i got a bunch of takamine lights for $2 a set. theyre ok but dont sound like elixers. what are your favorite cheap strings? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Russ, I use the Adamas 1818 sets, I haven't run out yet!! It's getting close though. I've heard good things about the elixers.
Paul, we actually put a strobe in one of the 86 collectors, the one Mark O'Connor is playing so it would go off when the camera triggered it. Then we put in some dry ice to get the effect of smoke. Had to take out the preamp and the door, a big project! the effect was pretty cool though.
I'm also experimenting with one of those baseball hats with the fans built in. They're big with the older set in Fla. That way I'll get the leslie effect wherever I look, or maybe just whatever I see will sound that way. I won't be able to wear it out of state of course. I'll keep you posted.
[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: cwk2 ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i give up----what is the leslie effect. last time i asked about mots it gave me a new word for guitar trivial pursuit on those slow nights. hope this one is half as good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | No this one is real.
The old Hammond B3 organs would be played through a leslie speaker. In the cabinet are some horns that spin inside the cabinet. There is a switch on the organ and the player can turn it on and off as desired. When a guitar is played through this is sounds great, like Stevie Ray on Cold Shot although I don't know if that was a real one or an effect. While this is a nice effect, imagine trying to tune your guitar while it's on. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Russ, for cheap but GOOD strings try www.stringthis.com Less than $2 a set.
Paul |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | I went to that website. It said that 1 set of phosphor bronze is $6.00. 4 sets would be $11.90 (almost $3 / set).
How many sets do you buy for $2 / set?
You could also try webStrings.com
Starts at $285 / set.
Bradley
[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: Bradley ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Check the prices of multiples, once you get to 12 sets you make substantial savings. I buy 72 sets at a time, by the time I've paid tax, duty & shipping they still cost less than the UK trade price.
Paul
[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | 72 sets. I don't have enough guitars (yet).
Bradley |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 126
Location: UK | That sites no good for me :(
I use 11`s on my acoustics, and they DONT do 11`s
I buy Roto p/bronze |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | thanks for all of the info and the links amigos. do you find phosphor bronze or 80/20s best for general use? as expensive as strings are here, 72 sets would be a good way for me to go. i like the straight feature in a tube too. paper packs here encourage rust even before you string up. i'll stock up while in the states.
bill, i think i got thet leslie effect going one night while i was chasing the worm around the bottom of a bottle of mezcal. it CAN happen without musical instruments. i'll show you when you visit someday.
[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: musicamex ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Paul;
Thanx for the info/site.
Sounds like a good deal.
How do they compare with say, D'Addario's?
I find myself changing once a week (when I have a gig that week) and that could be a substantial savings, if I like the strings.
I like the "tube" idea too.
Years ago, I used to use "Nashville Straights" that also came packaged "uncoiled". Those things used to last forever! (or so it seemed then).
I'll have to check these out. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Cliff, It's so long since I've shelled out the £6.95 on a set of D'Addario that I can't remember what they sound like. I'm perfectly happy with the bulk strings. I also use a product called Stringlife (www.stringlife.com) which is a liquid polymer coating. It stops my rancid body chemistry killing the strings within minutes of me touching them. I got a trade-price deal on a couple of boxes of the new D'Addario EXP coated strings, so I'm looking forward to trying them, but they're expensive, about £5 a set wholesale.
They're Daddario's answer to Elixirs, except that instead of coating the entire string they just coat the wrap.
Paul |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 126
Location: UK | Being an engineer, i found some magic engine lube additive that works on polymer molecular cohesion principle, its not Slick 50 ,its a lot better,i use in my own cars,im trying this out myself on my strings, as i have also what they call in the trade "Rusty fingers" If you pick up a freshly machined lump of steel, after an hour you can see your finger prints in rust! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I have that same "rancidity" in my body chemistry as well!
I've tried both the the Elixers and the EXPs and I really wasn't real happy w/'em.
Granted, they seemed to "last" a little longer, but I wasn't overly happy with their "sound".
They just didn't have that bell-like "ringing" sound that I like. (But again, that's just "me")
I wasn't real thrilled with the way they "felt" on my fingers. Kinda like playing guitar while wearing a condom. - I'll leave it at that. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | have you noticed elixers get fuzzy in the pick area for the first few days? i thought it was my less than stellar close up vision, but with a jewelers loupe you can see the effect of the pick. after a week of playing the coating (or lack of it) in the pick area seems to smooth out.
i have used a silicone based spray with teflon on my strings and fretboard for several years. there are several made for marine use. it also comes looking like vaseline, aka petrolatum. once you get a small lint proof cloth impregnated with it, you can keep it in a ziplock in your case, and a quick wipe is all it takes. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Russ:
I put Elixers on my 6 and 12 strings and love them. Yeah, they seem to fray in the area where the pick wears thru the coating. It's a very strange thing to see. They also discolor there and where major chords are played in the first few frets. But as long as they sound good....
Oddly enough, on the last set I had, they didn't go dead, but they seemed to loose their tone. They ended up with no warmth in them, just kinda brassy sounding. It was time to clean up the guitar and oil the fretboard anyway.
Paul |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 29
Location: Maryland | My favorite place to buy strings is musiciansfriend.com its hard to find better
strings at their price of single packages.
Their 6 sting Phosphor Bronze "Rogue" by Martin
are $2.49 for 1 set .. $3.99 for 12 strings.
and $2.19 for 80/20 All Bronze !!!! they are in
a pack with individual packs inside. They sound just about as good as any string i've tried.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i'm getting ready to place an order for 72 sets from string this. what are you opinions of the differences between phosphor bronze and 80/20?? i haven't ever compared them on equal guitars side by side before. my feeling is that phosphor bronze sounds brighter. since i have favorite guitars that get regular string changes, what hangs in there best for ones not played as frequently? it seems some go dead with time rather than use. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Just tried a couple of sets of the D'Addario EXP's on my SMT & my '78 Adamas. I'm not impressed at all. While Elixirs sound "played-in" straight out of the box, these sound gutless & subdued. And I bought 20 sets!!!!! Bugger.
I've noticed the wear on the Elixir coating too, that only happens on the Polyweb version, they seem to have got rid of that problem on the Nanoweb strings.
Cliff, you put on a condom & then play your guitar????? Hmmm
[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Russ, this is fron the D'addario website, their explanation of the difference between bronze & phosphor bronze
Phosphor Bronze - D'Addario Phosphor Bronze acoustic guitar strings are legendary for their full, rich, acoustic tone. Phosphor bronze provides a warm, rich sound with solid tone.
80/20 Bronze - D'Addario 80/20 Bronze (also referred to as brass) acoustic guitar strings provide a brighter tone. 80/20 Bronze strings have great acoustic clarity coupled with a bright, loud tone.
The website is pretty good, with lots of useful info.
Paul
[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | thanks paul, i had it backwards. 80/20 is brighter. it used to be simple. brass was a copper zinc alloy and bronze was a copper tin alloy. now there is so much overlap i'm not sure what the criteria is. i suspect for the marine climate the phosphor bronze would hang in there better. do you notice a difference plugged in, which is at least 90% of what i do in a non practice situation?
does everyone still drink beer warm in the uk? i'll have to get in practice again. those single malts though-------do i remember some marathon dart games sipping glen moraine! absolutly impossible to find here in mexico. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 5
Location: Florida | That is correct. I live in south florida and there is definitly a difference when it is humid out. Not to mention your hands sweat like a pig. Just remember to bring a cloth out with you to wipe the strings and hands every now and again. I prefer to cool my hands around a nice cold beer when play outside.
Ron |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 126
Location: UK | Mex, things have improved the last 25 to 30 years in the UK, we now serve Guiness chilled :cool:
But you still cant beat the taste of a nice brewed warm ale, ale is ale, its not beer as the rest of the world knows it, beer is now what is known as a lager or lager beer,a clear crisp liquid, a European thing,not British, which is all about brewing ales,ales are thick, brown, murky,nutty, liquids ,each with a special and particular taste and kick, theres probably thousands and thousands of different brewed ales across UK, its sounds disgusting to US citizens, but TBH our climate is cold so we drink warm beer to keep warm, simple really! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 196
Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | Guiness? Did somebody say Guiness? The only reason I started playing Irish music is because the pub where I hang out provides performers with free Guiness (served at room temp of course!) while yer palyin'..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I'm a bit partial to Samuel Smith's "Nut Brown" myself,(when I'm not having a Boddington's). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Cask Ale should be served at cellar temperature, about 55 degrees, but that will be warm to US tastes. Any warmer than 55 & it tastes like minestrone, colder & it kills the flavour. Hang on , isn't this a guitar forum???????????????wasn't this thread about acoustics??? and strings??? Jesus, this is getting confusing.
Cliff, I'm impressed that you can find good old Sam Smiths in the USA, hunt out some Tim Taylor Landord, it's the finest, and most bitter Brit beer on the planet. Apparently there are a bunch of micro-brewers in the USA brewing in the British style.
It's amazing to think that we brew some of the best beers in the world over here, yet Bud (I'm referring to the great pretender, not Budvar) is a market leader. The bland leading the bland, methinks.
Paul
[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
|
| |
Is it my ears?