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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 119
Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | I was (am) always curious to know how other people, especialy Ovation opponents, feel about Ovation guitars, what they think about Ovations, and what they say. I have confronted them many times, I have had long discussions, fights, etc.
Sometimes I was able, if not to change their minds, at least to convince them not to look always negatively towards ovation guitars.
After all, thousands (if not millions) of pros, and fans have played/play Ovation guitars. This means something!
Ovation opponents are mainly people who LOVE wood! Myself too.
But they can not tolerate any acoustic guitar with no wooden back and sides.
I recently visited the Vintage Guitar.com, bulletin board,
http://www.vintageguitar.com/bulletin_boards/details.asp?forumID=21...
and I saw this topic:
"Ovation? (dare I say that name?)"
I am working on my response to them, but if you don't mind take a look of how they feel about Ovations, we may learn something here, especially the guys at Ovation:
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PREVIOUS TOPIC|NEXT TOPIC
Ovation? (dare I say that name?)
I was thinking about the noticable absence of Ovation guitars mentioned here. Now, dont get me wrong...I dont like these things. There was a time I really wanted to. But even then when I went out and played them I couldnt bring myself to buy one. From the cheapos up to the expensive models So, I was wondering if anyone would care to comment on why they dont like them, or why they never get mentioned. I figure alot of acoustic players wander thru here. And almost none mention them as guitars they like. I guess they are the acoustic jackson of the 80's.
smallmouse55@yahoo.ocm
2/22/2001|9:56:00 AM
REPLIES: POST REPLY
justine ,i generally try not to support anything from the kaman group for political reasons ,you know the whole plastic schrapnell thing.but even if it wasn't for that i never heard an ovation i liked.the idea makes sense to me ,a nearly indestructable guitar with a very arched back.but then i hear them or play them and it's like YUCK.maybe it's just that i can't stand piezo-electric PU's ,but then again i never heard one i liked unplugged either.years ago they had a sub-ovation guitar called an aplause which actually had a plastic top.they sounded better to me than ovations ,and that's a scary thought.maybe they just coat the top with too much finish ?
POSTED BY: shakeylee@juno.com
DATE POSTED: 2/22/2001 / 2:50:00 PM
I don't care much for Ovation guitars, either. I appreciate the know-how that went into the product, but;
- I like wood more than plastic (not just on guitars).
- The sound of an Ovation has no "personality". They sound antiseptic.
- That plastic smells funky. If you ever get your nose near the soundhole of an Ovation, you won't do it a second time.
However, in what may seem like a total about-face, I think their little mandolins are a pretty good product.
-crest
POSTED BY: franknfret@aol.com
DATE POSTED: 2/22/2001 / 5:57:00 PM
They are hard to play sitting down, they keep sliding off your lap. Or am i thinking of those girls behind the beaded curtains in the back room of The Gentleman's Club....hazy...
POSTED BY: jj
DATE POSTED: 2/22/2001 / 6:42:00 PM
Well, I never liked the sound of these guitars, but I think that they played a very important part in the further development of today's acoustic guitars. Scores of big-name players were swooping these up in the late sixties throughout the seventies because they were EASY to play and projected very well. Tone?--forget about it. Whatever the case, I believe that Kaman pushed the envelope with this product, thus forcing other manufacturers (anyone out there remember the much-heralded introduction of Martin's "low profile" neck?) to make their instruments more comfortable to play, especially for those folks making the transition from electric to acoustic. They sold a hell of a lot of guitars due to this forward-thinking, and perhaps helped companies like Taylor design more of a traditionally-built acoustic guitar with the comfort-factor in mind (not that I'm a Taylor fan, but they DO play easy).
I suppose Kaman sells more Takamines (a somewhat traditionally-built imported acoustic) and Hamer electrics than they do Ovations these days anyway; you can't fault their marketing practices, as they seem to have most (but not all) of the guitar niches covered.
I'd even buy one of their bowl-backs if they could build it to sound like a Santa Cruz or Huss & Dalton!
POSTED BY: cbogle@earthlink.net
DATE POSTED: 2/22/2001 / 10:10:00 PM
Whoa! Everyone's knockin' a guitar company that came up with a fairly good idea. Who knows, with the way the tree huggers are making a name for themselves and with Clinton's last ditch effort to get the entire Northwest declared a protected area, we might all be playin' plastic guitars before it's all over. I was 16 years old in 1967 and my friend's drum teacher got us passes to the NAMM show in Chicago. This is where I first saw the Ovation prototype that had a smooth back and a flat headstock. In the 70's Ovations were popular because they could be amplified and still sounded somewhat like an acoustic guitar. OK, they did have that plunky piezo sound, but you could EQ that down. But the originals, like the one I have only had the volume control.
The trouble that I see with Ovations is the US made ones are very nice guitars, but the depreciate in value faster than driving a new car off the lot. I guess this is because all the solid wood snobs don't like them, so there isn't much of a market for used or vintage Ovations.
The other trouble is that Ovation has produced a lot of Asian made guitars that have similar features of the USA made ones only they sell for about $1000 less.
Maybe this is because Kaman is a huge company and musical instruments are just a part of there production.
POSTED BY: maranata73@aol.com
DATE POSTED: 2/23/2001 / 2:47:00 AM
i dont think its so much 'solid wood snobs' as good sound snobs. for me, if any ovation i had played sounded like my martin, i would own it not matter what it was made of. i dont know much about woods, age, grain...i know sound though. so if it sounds good i'm all for it.
i love innovation and i think the ovation sound is good for some things you might need that sound for. they definitley helped the electric pick up thing in acoustics.
the roundback never did it for me...i felt it was hard to play sitting...not as bad standing though.
POSTED BY: j
DATE POSTED: 2/23/2001 / 12:09:00 PM
Of course dey is some ob de UGLIEST guitars ebber made...An way back dere in de 70s dey made some hideous sounds......Wid ugly people playin em.....But dey is good fo smashin' up dere fo de grand finale.........Yes dey are!
POSTED BY: lreimuller@iste.org
DATE POSTED: 2/23/2001 / 3:58:00 PM
Ovations are terible guitars!!! I remember in 1985 , I was going to a music school and needed something small and adaptable. I got the junior modle that was the rage at the time.
What people have to realize is Ovation is its own kind of animal. I am not defending it ( I personaly think they suck!) , but there are some intersesting sounds you can get.
For instance , I wanted to play the guitar with a drummer , but I could not get the volume at the correct level with out feeding back , so I STUFFED it with about 10 pounds of very tightly packed bedsheets and that was the sound I used to record from then on. I even made a classic album with that procedure!
In recording , there was hardly any volume left , but with mikes (SM57s , totaly wrong mics for acoustic , but it worked!) it really came out beautifully! Also the pluged in sound had a great electric quality as well as the stum texture.
A little food for thought...can make something out of nothing!
Oh , I also bought a Taylor and they are like the boutique Ovation. They share a common trait of haveing steral sound!
JT
POSTED BY: Zythumstudios@earthlink.net
DATE POSTED: 2/24/2001 / 9:32:00 AM
I'd like to invite all Ovation lovers/haters to go to http://www.mp3.com/NealPinto and listen to the song called "Where Were You". This was recorded with my Ovation plugged straight into a Tascam 4-track (a real quick job).
I think it turned out pretty good.... at least... just as good (if not better) as any other acoustic recorded direct.
Why did I get an Ovation? As a teenager, I fell in love with the multi-soundhole leaf trim on the Adamas models.... so I had to get one with that design.... and I have no regrets.
Don't get me wrong... when this guitar is played unplugged, it makes a Dobro sound like a Martin!! That's okay though... I have solid-wood acoustics too.
I have found it to be very useful for treated guitar sounds like heavy delay or chorus. Sounds I couldn't get practically when mic'ing an acoustic.... sounds I'd never get with an electric. I've even used it with overdrive and acheived some interesting sounds.
Rock on...
GoA-BoY
-- http://www.mp3.com/NealPinto
POSTED BY: goa-boy@excite.com
DATE POSTED: 3/9/2001 / 2:16:00 PM
I have never seen or heard an ovation where i live in NZ. But from the general replies they don't seem to be that good. Now I have my eyes on a Vester copy of an ovation, does that mean it will sound just as funky? Should i get the vester or the 60's hofner i am also looking at?
Being an electric guy i have not got much idea what makes a good acoustic. Any ideas?
cheers, Daniel
POSTED BY: yuffster@pop3.xtra.co.nz
DATE POSTED: 3/9/2001 / 2:51:00 PM
like all brands....you can fine some gems and you can find junk
POSTED BY: ht@juno.com
DATE POSTED: 3/9/2001 / 10:14:00 PM
HT--from the Acoustic Guitar forum?? If so, Hello! If not, hello just the same. :-)
Anyone notice how the low E-string on Ovations tends to slip off the fretboard a little?
Let's see... I was watching a VH1 Behind the Music, and some guy was on... he played Ovations throughout his whole career (mostly), and they didn't sound half bad, the ones he played at least.
My opinion has been pretty much expressed already... I think they sound pretty good plugged in (for a bridge transducer). Unplugged... not the ones I've tried.
I think RainSong makes the best non-wood guitars (although their first attempts weren't too great, I think the new ones sound pretty good! not like wood, different sound, but still pretty darn good).
-Jesse
POSTED BY: gobez@minot.com
DATE POSTED: 3/16/2001 / 10:31:00 AM
AS a background, I have two Martins and I used to build lutes and guitars. I love wood. That being said, Ovations have intrigued me for some time. I played a Glen Campbell from the early seventies that played very similarly to my Martin. They mike up well, too. I have always thought of them as a well playing guitar for conditions to adverse for a real guitar. Or guitar that can take a beating, like playing outside and laying it down on its back on damp grass-no problem. I have been dismayed by reports that the company does not stand behind defects. Why do these things command the prices they do?
POSTED BY: sdymond@lawyernet.com
DATE POSTED: 4/3/2001 / 12:14:00 PM
Ovations sound like Tupperware, period. Everytime I think of Ovations I think of the cheesiest of the cheese of guitar players. Every dweeby, poppy, yucky front man played an Ovation. Ovations became popular when guitars had sort of started to lose their way a little bit: the Kramers with the aluminum necks, the clear Dan Armstrong's, the Peavey T-15 synthetics, Gibson's "The Paul" and all that other dark natural mahogony stuff- all crap, every last piece of it. Yeah, somewhat totemistic and cool to gawk at, but beyond that, CRAP! Now that america has rediscovered what the guitar is really all about they have thankfully cast aside the Ovation. Leave that piece of crap for the church crowd at guitar mass and let's leave the rock to the real stuff.
POSTED BY: tdog@rrv.net
DATE POSTED: 4/6/2001 / 12:12:00 AM
AMEN!
POSTED BY: lreimuller@iste.org
DATE POSTED: 4/6/2001 / 2:22:00 PM
My partner and I recently recorded a female acoustic-duo in my studio. One sings, the other plays an Ovation acoustic.
I had to do some extra work to get the Ovation to sound decent. I used both a condenser mic and a Dean Markley pickup, and then panned each of the two tracks out from eachother. I then EQ'd each track differently.
The results were much better than the original sound of the guitar. Here's the final results, if anybody wants to check it out.
The songs are really good, catchy tunes.
My partner and I played bass and drums on 3 of the 4 songs.
Here's they are.....
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/231/flaming_red.html
POSTED BY: themacbrothers@home.com
DATE POSTED: 4/17/2001 / 2:18:00 AM
This is a tough one. I'd never buy one and believe they'd mostly make better planters but........one of my guitar heroes, the late Marcel Dadi played Ov's almost exclusivley and he sounds great. I've always wondered what he'd sound like with a "real" guitar but thanks to TWA flight 800 we never will find out.
If you're playing in a bar band, they probably do a good job. Loud and who cares if some drunk wants to play it!
I have a good friend who has a real expensive Adamus or the like and it's pretty nice to play and sounds great but who wants to spend 4k on an Ovation? Seems like a lot even for a top of the line planter.
Besides Ov's don't like people! Every time you try to play one, it tries to get away.
POSTED BY: tlabelle@tbaytel.net
DATE POSTED: 5/1/2001 / 4:54:00 AM
I recently purchased a 1970's Applause/Ovation D-size acoustic flat-top, Model AA-14, found it in a pawn shop for $90.
This guitar sounds great! The first day I saw it I played it, and couldn't believe the sound. But I didn't buy it right then, I was thinking "Oh, another junk Ovation". But after a couple days it got to eating at me just how good that Applause sounded and how comfortable the playing action was, how nice the tobacco sunburst finish looked, how well-constructed it was, etc.
So I drove real fast back to the pawn shop and it was still there, and I am real glad I bought it. I have a couple vintage Martins among others, and I have been playing the Applause more than all of them!
I have seen a couple Ovations where the titanium(?) neck was bowed, but the neck on this guitar is perfectly straight, the action perfect. The tone is wonderful, it is a very resonate instrument and is very balanced across all the strings, really sparkling in the upper registers, making it excellent for recording. I also like the comfortable neck radius which is more like an electric than acoustic, and the bowl-back design is very comfortable, it does not dig into your side like a conventional acoustic.
So I just wanted to say it was $90 well-spent on this old Ovation/Applause, and I really have not been able to put it down since I purchased it. Also wanted to encourage others not to believe all Ovations suck, it is just not true. You have to take each instrument as an individual, some are good, some not so good. Hoping everyone can run across a "keeper" like I did. Thanks!
POSTED BY: franksbone@thedoghousemail.com
DATE POSTED: 3/27/2002 / 4:23:00 PM>>> | |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think most of the opinion above fall into a few categories... This may be over-simplification... but I truly believe..
1. Most people like what they are "used" to hearing. Ovation is the ONLY guitar I know of that if you strum across the strings open, you will hear ALL of the strings at the same volume and clarity. Most boxes emphasize the low end and frankly I see the majority of folks playing boxes trying to make them sound like nylon string classicals when they aren't. Individual taste comes into play here, and I like to hear all of the notes, I don't like adding eq, so I like Ovations.
2. Many folks who do not like Ovations never really heard or played one, even if they said they did. This is the fault largly in Ovation's marketing. Folks pick up an import, or other bottom line Ovation, don't know ANYTHING about the guitar or the pre-amp, plug it in, and yuch! Very few stores have an Adamas within easy access to noodle, and to the unknowing, "all roundbacks are the same."
3. Plastic vs Wood. To me this is not an argument. Sound vs sound is an argument or at least an opinion, but just to categorically drop it because it doesn't have wood is... not someone I care to have a conversation with. These are the same folks that don't buy things made in foriegn countries, and probably have little or no ability to form their own opinion. These people ARE listening to the marketing of other guitar sales persons and not using their ears.
Do I think Ovation guitars are the best guitars made? Never thought about it... I play Ovations because I can get the best sound (my opinion) from them and I have the most control to change the sound if I want too.
I guess I would have more respect for peoples negative opinions of Ovations if they stated why they like what they use, instead of why they don't like Ovations. For instance... instead of "Ovations suck, they sound thin and plastic" I'd have more respect for "My Martin has a rich tone that I like, that I was unable to achieve from an Ovation." That is an opinion. That other stuff is just dribble... | |
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Posts: 119
Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Miles let me know if you want me to edit the topic by removing all the talk in the topic at the vintage guitar board, and leave only the link to their site. I realize it is too long. | |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Have you ever noticed how bold people get when they can talk and not have to show their face? They do seem to get carrier away expressing themselves about how much they hate Ovations. It is funny because much of what they say is pure prejudice and when coldly examined won't hold water. Some of it is the herding effect where they get carried away with the badmouthing and have to outdo the last guy.
It's so refreshing that all of the people at the OFC are so restrained and refined and above all that. (let's see, except for my comments about dog spoo, and the other one about.....well never mind!) | |
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Location: NJ | <>
funny cwk2 I was just thinking that eh...yesterday... | |
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Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I don't find the "tone" of the OFC folks surprising at all. Afterall, the fact that we play Ovations already indicates an open-mindedness on some level.
I totally agree with the comments on the "token" endorsements. I know at least one artist (actually a whole band) who is quite well known, that endorses an amplifier line that although it appears on stage, they barely use. They only use the power-amp stage and the head is just there for show. Simply because they get them for free, they sound ok, and if they break, they are replaced. No offence to Melissa E. but I don't even think of her as a musician, but more of a singer/songwriter. I realize she is a musician, but I don't think her guitar abilities pay the bills as much as her pen and vocals do. Richie Sambora is a guitar player, Glen Campbell, Roy Clark, even the guy from Metallica. Someone posing with a guitar does not get me interested at all, unless the tag line is something like "see what so-and-so sais about Ovation" or something like that. If one were to only look at ad's they would think Eddie VanHalen loves Peavey amps, when in fact he STILL records (if he can anymore) with a Marshall combo. Dweezel on the other hand really does seem to like "get'n Wiggy with it." I didn't think twice about the "Wiggy" until I saw him demo and talk about it. I still don't like it, but at least I am informed.
My point (I had one... really) was after I see the Ovation ad... even if I'm interested... there is little to no "real" info available unless I go digging. I shouldn't have to dig, that's what sales people get paid to do. | |
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Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | I took a quick look at the page elias marked and didn't see how to respond without joining. I'll pass.
Other guitar players are always surprised when they hear the sound of my 1537. It's a great guitar sound and holds it's own with most other guitars. However, people who don't like Ovations are basing their opinion (in my opinion) on the look and the materials. Prejudice comes through. I have my quirks, but I try to maintain an open mind. These are the same people who will say that all Martins (or Taylors, or Silvertones, or whatever) are great. They aren't. Some are good and some are bad.
And Bill, as for people who don't want their ideas closely questioned, just look at Hillary Clinton. She will never appear in public where there is open debate. She can't. The ideas (as well as the person) can't stand up.
Maybe my taste in guitars is odd. But I also drive a car with a rotary engine. Maybe I'm just flat out odd. | |
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Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | kielbasa vs bratwurst, saurkraut vs kim chee, bud vs miller and on and on. in matters of taste there is no right or wrong. it is not in good taste or productive to show prejudice without knowledge. if fact genocide is the end result in extreem cases when people become sheep and can only follow. i seemed to see allot of unsubstantiated peer following peer responses in the posts from vintage guitar.
i play ovations but own over a dozen woodies. they all have their own particular niche in my life, but i play the ovations because they give me the sound i want with a minimum of hassles. they travel well and stay in tune. i have never owned guitars upon which i can depend more than my ovations.
buying a taylor or a martin or a gibson or even an ovation because it was what you felt expressed your musical language the best is correct. buying it because bob ted george and dickless said it was "the one" and it was endorsed by someone who made the cover of the rolling stone shows me that your musical individuality has been compromised and that you will likely be a follower instead of a leader. someone satisfied with the status quo instead of being a questioning innovator.
playing ovations isn't a casual decision for me. my opinion is based on 35 years of playing lots of different instruments. and if someone speaks his musical language best through a taylor or a martin, more power to them. having the medium to best communicate your musical ideas is what is really important. music and instruments have constantly evolved since the time we tapped out a beat with a stick back in the cave. ovation has imho been an important and successful link in the chain that will continue long beyond when ovation is considered a "vintage" breed. thank goodness for guys like charlie and bill who take risks to lengthen that chain.
so can i have a bratwurst with kimchee on it please? | |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | As I recall this whole site was started because of assholes like those mentioned at the start of this thread. We owe them something, If it wasn't for them being so wrong, we wouldn't be so right! | |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | You are so correct CWK2. I guess no one bothered to read that nicely composed opener on the welcome page. I think I explained our focus and purpose rather nicely if I say so myself.
technology is a funny thing. I remember my professor in college telling us that there will be a day when we will all have computers in our homes and I looked at my friend in the seat next to me and said who the hell would want a computer in their home ? what would you do with it? Those were the days with keypunch cards and mainframes....
Ovation took the guitar and brought it into the twentieth century. Unfortunately musicians are the absolute last to accept technology. So you have a bunch of detractors who just don't get it.
In fact, I have to deal with the attitude whenever I sell a guitar. I kinda thought that this site would be a safe haven free from that sort of attitude... I guess dare I say some of us here don't "get it" either.
[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: alpep ] | |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | We read it but that was so long ago! I've got a great memory, it's just short | |
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Location: Scotland | The really GREAT thing about the net is that it's open to eveyone & is damn near uncontrollable. The really BAD thing about the net is that it's open to everyone & is damn near uncontrollable. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. The problem is, that without experience, education and knowledge, opinions are worthless. Many of the people who contribute to that site are wannabes, they have no clue apart from a second-hand perception of the "classic" vintage guitars, most of them haven't even seen a "real" vintage guitar. The majority can't even spell or construct a sentence correctly. Fuck'em
[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] | |
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Location: SoCal | cwk2, my memory is also short. That's why I used to make notes to myself on my hand. Trouble was, everytime I washed my hands, I erased my short term memory. | |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | some people feel bigger by saying someone else or something else is smaller or inferior. others become bigger by actually growing. this site is nutrition packed and i have grown much more than i expected to when i found this site. what i read from vintage guitar was a starvation diet for anorexic brains, except for one open minded applause owner who had the guts to stand out. he would have a wet dream if he played some of big O's finest. i haven't even done that yet, but it wont be long now.
so let 'em run with the flock. i'll hang with you guys who think about what can still be done. let the sheep graze where they have been shitting since day one. it's not just about guitars it IS about attitude. | |
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Location: SoCal | Bravo Russ! | |
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Posts: 119
Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | I wouldn't worry that much about the Ovation opponents from outside.
At least you can easily identify them.
Unfortunately there are also Ovation dealers, or so-called fans, "collectors", etc., who cause greater damage to the "Ovation name", than the "enemies". | |
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March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | elias, the so called enemies are only enemies to themselves. when someone makes a stupid statement based on peer pressure or badmouths someone because they are different they only make a statement to the sheep. they really don't bother me, because i am happy with my choices. ovation guys are mavericks, we are different, and proud of it. i find no problem with respectful difference of opinion. if someone wants to call a spade a diamond and it is done with respect it only represents a difference of perception. when it is done with animosity it is counterproductive. the focus of this site as i see it, is brotherhood, friendship and learning. when someone starts to use innuendos, and claim to have the only answer or the ultimate classification, i believe it only hurts the person doing it. and if that person is a member it dilutes the overall quality of the knowledge and fun we all share here. nobody represents a threat to me and the constructive dialog based on experience and knowledge can only help ovation past, present and future. | |
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Location: NJ | I play what I play, and I play what I like.
I don't particularly care for other people's opinions/assholes.
As I posted once before, Al Stewart (who was once a BIG Ovation proponent) told me he switched to Taylors because Laurence Juber convinced him that Ovations are "rubbish". Will I stop buying his CD's or stop playing a couple of his songs at my gigs? No. I'll just let him take his opinion (and his asshole) along on his merry way.
"Enemies", unfortunately are also like opinions (and assholes) everybody's got one. C'est la vie.
You made an interesting point though, Elias and I was wondering if you could elaborate/clarify:
You said that Ovation dealers/collectors/fans do more to besmerch the Ovation name than our so called "enemies". How so?
Whenever I've dealt with a music store or a dealer, I've never had anyone try to dissuade me from an Ovation, I've usually come across (at least in stores) either unfamiliarity or ignorance about the product.
As far as "collectors" may go, I haven't really dealt with any, but in the brief (but pleasant and informative) timespan that I've spent with people like yourself, Bill, Al, Miles, Russ, the "Pauls", Sam and everyone else here that may have a somewhat more substantial "collection" than my two "O's", have done nothing more than BOLSTER my enthusiasm (which had been admittedly "flagging" in recent years) for Ovation both as a guitar and as a company.
Case in point: the recent Guitar Show in S. Jersey (that Al/Miles undoubtedly had a lot to do with organizing & running). As soon as I walked in, I was greeted by a table with a big, nylon "OVATION" logo banner draped in front of it (where can I get one of those by the way?). Seated behind it was the ever Cheshire-smiling Kim Keller from Ovation who came down espressly to help Al & Miles out, offering mucho answers and insight. Al greeted me at the door the minute I walked in. Miles was quite helpful in answering my questions about any and all of the particular models that I was playing there. What it boiled down to was that I felt "at home" there and more importantly, I felt PROUD to feel at home there.
Undoubtedly, there are probably a plethora of dim-witted, uneducated "vendors" (whom we probably have guitars older than) that misrepresent Ovation unwittingly, but as far as fans/collectors/"us"? doing harm to Ovation's reputation, I'm sorry but I "just don't see it".
Unless of course I misunderstood your statement.
How did you mean that? | |
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Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Russ:
Quick comment on your post above, and difference of opinion comments. The world would be a much better place if everybody listened to me and did what I told them to do.
Unfortunately, I can't even get my wife, kids and dog to listen. Oh well, I'll keep trying. | |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Cliff
just a point of clarification. The South Jersey guitar show is run by me and a long time friend Jim. It has become a family affair employing Jim's wife. my wife, my sister, niece and nephew and probably a few others I have unfortunately left out.
Miles and I met maybe 5 or 6 years ago when he either found me on the web advertising Ovation guitar s or parts or something. Our Vendor/Customer relationship quickly turned into a friendship and the rest is history. Miles comes out to the show to support me and give me a hand. Since he is very knowledgeable about Ovations and guiars in general it is a no brainer (boy do I hate that term) that he helps out my wife Sue while I am busy trying to keep all the vendors and customers at the show as relatively happy as possible.
Kim is also a long time friend. I met him out in Ohio when he was the owner of Keller's music we set up next to each other at the guitar show out there and well I guess the rest is history there too. Kim is not only an excellent musician, guitar tech and service rep but yet another good friend whom I value his friendship. Kim is also a guitar collector and comes to show to swap and trade. Naturally his knowledge of Ovations is valuable so when a question comes up or something like your AMAZING guitar walks through the door we all get together in a circle and put our collective minds together and evaluate it.
Come to think of it much of my business is done via word of mouth and players that have become friends.
cliff thanks for the kind words | |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | the dog too paul? its not one of those fifi kinds is it? bill, do you still have those recipies from korea? paul could use them. | |
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Location: NJ | Q: What does a dog in Korea say?
A: "Meow!"
(Actually, I heard it as "...what does a gerbil in a Greenwhich Village pet shop say....", but I didn't think that would be "appropriate". | |
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Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | well said Russ. | |
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Location: SoCal | Russ:
He's a golden deceiver. He's not a retriever, cause he won't voluntariy bring back anything. He's also asleep under my desk right now which is great except when he's gassy. | |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | gracias jim, i thought the dog comment was well presented too. | |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ditto on what Al said... I have nothing "officially" to do with any shows... I just use them as an excuse to take a drive and hang out with Al and Sue and some other folks I met along the way. Al puts me to work, and pays me in donuts and pretzels which frankly, all things considered... is a pretty damn good gig!!!
With the advent of eBay, the shows are mostly a social thing for me. I wish I had known about them BE (before eBay). They must have been something!!!
I also agree on the comments about dealers hurting the Ovation name. There are some smaller stores where folks know something about the Ovation guitars they sell. But I visit music stores and pawn shops in every town/country I go to, and it is rare that someone really trys to "sell" an Ovation. To a newcomer, an Ovation must be "sold." If they are shopping for a guitar, chances are all they know about is what they have seen and heard and that's probably Martin or Guild or Yamaha or Takamine.
I was just going through the Elderly instruments catalog, and THEY sell their guitars including Ovations. The descriptions are nice and clear. RE: SMT "... Great high frequency responce without compromising bass and mid-range." tells me something. "Optima preamp with built in tuner" tells me something.. as opposed to the "has a 3 band eq and gain control" that most ads read.. or worse yet "....has Optima pre-amp".. that tells me a lot... NOT!!!
I notice several other guitar ads seem to have ads and info prepared by the manufacturer for use as the same "blurb" shows up in every ad. I wonder if Ovation does that too, or is it up to the vendor? | |
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Location: NJ | Miles
you forgot about the world's best sicilian pizza... | |
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Location: Los Angeles | I only play Ovation guitars. I do not agree with the unenlightened. However, can I get some responses to the comment about Ovation guitars value dropping faster than a new car driven off the lot? How well do the newer Adamas and Custom Legends really hold their value? By the way I love that this forum has been made available. Thank you | |
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Location: NJ | almost everything you buy takes a major hit when you go to resell it. Yes some take more of a hit than others. If you think Ovations take a large hit I think that if you looked at other manufacturers you will find the same. It is also model specific too. | |
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Location: NJ | You think guitars take a hit...
...has anyone ever gone out and bought a new BOAT?? (cringe!) | |
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Location: SoCal | This is why I'll never buy another new car. Buy a lease turn in and let somebody else take the hit.
Of my main guitars, I only bought one new, my Adamas 12. And it sat on a wall for 18 months while people were buying the Guild and Taylors around it. I got it for half retail price. Everything else I have I bought used and am very happy with them.
Take a look at various guitars on ebay. There are great deals on Taylors, Martins, Larivees, etc. Even a Martin has to be pre WWII to appreciate in value significantly. Everything else looses value as soon as it hits the streets. | |
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Location: Scotland | A slightly different take on the depreciation thing.... If you bought a used '70's acoustic Balladeer it would cost around the same or a little more now than when it was new. Not only is that a great guitar for the dough, but it's held it's value exceptionally well.
SMT's CVT's and the higher-end guitars seem to hold their value pretty well. You shouldn't really use the list price as a yardstick, the street discount price is more realistic. I've seen those guitars go for slightly more used, than some of the big discounters sell them new.
Paul | |
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Location: Miami | Hi
Just read through some of the posts in Vintage Guitar and have come to the realization that elitism and ego boosting based in name recognition is very important if not indispensable to many in our hobby. I also noticed that playability and sound were either minimally important or not at all. One poster even beleaguered the fact that our bowls do not smell good if you sniff real close to the holes. (I hope he is talking about our guitar bowls - :)
Anyway, I have owned or currently own many of the guitars currently being celebrated on that site, but what I use as a critical determinant of which is best (for me) is "Of the several excellent models I have to choose from, which one do I most repeatedly pick up to play when in the mood." (Again, let me clarify... guitar playing mood -:, even though there have been times, more than I care to remember, that I was in the mood for something else, but had to settle for guitar playing-well at least my guitars never say no) Invariably, the #1 pick is the Ovation Longneck, the #2 pick is the PRS Custom 10 top 24 (When I just have to crunch)
My first Ovation purchase happened as a fluke. I had always, for one reason or another, stayed away from them, but that fateful day, I was in the market for a 12 string. I asked my son to accompany me to the guitar store because I needed his help selecting a guitar. His function would be to hand me different twelve string guitars while I sat blindfolded and played them. It was there that I discovered the Melissa 12. The action was incredible, the effort needed was the same as a good six string, and when I saw it, I realized it was gorgeous. Where tone and playability was concerned, second best, a Gibson, was far behind. The Martins, only the top dollar one would even be considered. The other Martins were unplayable (to me anyway-see I suffer of the early stages of carpal tunnel syndrome) and the effort was unbearable... just to keep the strings from rattling, the action was almost 1/4 inch away from the fingerboard (or so it felt like it was)
Effort was made to keep me from discerning that the guitar was an Ovation or an Adamas. Anyway, the choice was obvious, and even though Melissa was a little more than I could spend that day, I knew that she was in my future. But walking away emptyhanded from a guitar buying moment was not to be. I always had a problem singing some of the Clapton tunes because of his quirky high voice, and when I discovered the Ovation Longneck, and I played it and heard it, I had to have it.
I now have come to the realization that I would never again buy a guitar without doing the blindfold playability and sound test, after all, aren't those the main determining factors involving a guitar purchase? Cosmetics and quality of build would only then be considered. Even though I feel that quality of build is reflected greatly during the playability and sound test.
Ovation has a new fan, and the fact that it is off the beaten path, only makes it that much more attractive to me. Maybe that is why when I go for a putt around town, I do it in my '47 Indian Chief and not a recent vintage popular whatever?...
Well all this talk has put me "in the mood" ... maybe? ... well maybe not? ... from the look of things around here, I'd better go get the guitar...
Have a good one | |
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Location: CT | The best point made is that many of these people have never really *played* Ovations. Even the ones who have taken the time to pull one off a rack and strum it like their trusty Martin, make a stupid face, and put it back, have never PLAYED an Ovation, and taken it for what it is. With any product, and especially with a product that differs considerably from the mainstream, the user has to become acclimated before he or she can do much with it. Give the average automobile driver a motorcycle. He'll crash it in first gear, then tell you he prefers four wheels. Can't much blame him, but still not a valuable opinion.
The Ovations are very different animals. They need to be played in like any other guitar - maybe moreso - but even then they need to be approached with a slightly different technique - or at the very least, feel - than the average "box".
(By the way, the Ovations don't smell funny because of the bowls, it's because they've got PU's.) | |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | I made a note a few days ago about the "dealer" or lack of dealer prep. I my fevor of the recent past ovation search... Some authorized Ovation dealers pointed out other models... Being in sales I understand you sell what you make the most $s. You might sell what you have the longest inventory... | |
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Location: NJ | a 47 Indian now that has been my deam machine since I was a kid... There is just something that smells of class with an Indian from the lighted fender to the wide fenders to the fringe on the seat.... Wow do I wish I could get one of them or even one of the new ones. In fact I think I will put that on my list next to the Avanti I need to buy...
darc you said some interesting stuff. All gutiars need to be played and I usually don;t always buy into that mojo mumbo jumbo....but your point about people not giving Ovations a fair shake is true. Unfortunately it lies in the bluring of the line between the imports and USA models.
I have sold several 2001 collector's series guitars by just opening the case saying try this and standing back and watching the expression on their face. Aside from an Adamas I have never been able to endorse a guitar more than that model the redwood top IS magic.
AS Ovation fans we look outside the norm and are more into sound and playability as opposed to tradition and marketing. It is hard to make others see the light.
As for Vendors selling other guitars sure that is a point well taken. You go into a shop and see 4 Ovations and 3 are impots well they are going to try to sell you what they have. On the other hand I usually have 8-10 Adamas guitars around to try... it is all perspective. | |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | '47 Indian.. reminds me of something off-topic. I was in the Philippines in Jul 1978 - Aug 1980 and had the pleasure/challenge of driving (and I use that term loosely) one of the Indians the army "lost" in an airplane transport accident that occured in the 40's (or there abouts). Suicide shifter, manual advance/retard sheesh... so many moving parts, I was happy to get it into 2nd. The guy that worked on my bike was one of the guys hiding this stash of bikes. I don't remember all of the details, but I wonder what happened to them. I have a feeling they might have been buried by the Volcano around 1990?? as although I don't know the exact location of where the bikes were being hid... I assume it was not far from Clark Air Base probably in the jungle to the North.
No real point to this post... just taking a tour down memory lane. Oh to be a sailor in Olongapo in the 70's again...
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming | |
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Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | Miles, I made about two dozen stops in Olongapo from June 77 to Aug 79.... I agree.... oh, to be that young and ....well..... uh..... just thinking about it gives me a cravin for penicillin... | |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | We were there at the same time.. 2 dozen stops.. what ship were you on? | |
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Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | miles,
spent 6 years (5 yrs 11 mos 11 days) on the Kitty Hawk. You? | |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I actually never rode on the Chicken Hawk... I was "station dito" and did TDY... sooooo
Ranger
Enterprise
Constellation
Tarawa
Denver
Jouett
Ahhhhh Westpac... a wonderful thing.. You surface riders called it "port of call" I called it "transfer point to next ship heading out."
But I can't complain... I did get some decent ports too. Korea, Korea... then there was Korea.. :) I jest a bit. I really had a great time from what I can remember. In Subic the det hangout was "One 4-D Road" and I used to sit in with the local rock bands on the main strip outside the gate. | |
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Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | two places come to mind.... Purple Haze (3rd bar out the main gate on the right) and Mama's Garden out on Magsaysay (or was it on Rizal?) .... then there was Korea...... memory is a little fuzzy there.... go figure...
[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Jiminos ] | |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As it seems no one else hear knows what we are talking about....
http://www.subicbaypi.com/
and
http://filipinawives.com/memorial.html
enjoy | |
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Location: NJ | mee so hawney!!! | |
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Location: Hawaii | huh | |
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Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | bobby, ya had to be there.... | |
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Location: TX | Maybe it's because my Ovation is almost 30 years old, but I wouldn't change with any other acoustic.I have had several woodies over the years and have never replicated the tone,projection,feel, and warmthness of my Ovation.It might be the deep bowl, and the resonance is unsurpassed in my opinion. Players are so used to hearing reviews on the so-called brilliant woodies that I believe that some(of course,not all)are going for the name.When I bought my Ovation, I went in preparing to buy a Martin(which is of course a fantastic guitar).But when I tried my Ovation Balladeer I couldn't get over the great sound and projection and kept coming back to the Ovation(despite the salesman explaining how great the Martin was(of course the Martin was more expensive which made his commision higher).I take the guitar elitest opinions with a grain of salt, because it ultimately comes down to the sound(not the name brand).I love my Ovation!!! | |
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Location: Scotland | Found this on Adrian Legg's website
"As far as the occasional for/against Ovation debate on the newsgroups and elsewhere goes, I can only say that I believe that the primary function of music is as a form of human communication that has emotional and spiritual connotations that far outweigh any boys'club aesthetics, that are limited merely to the niceness or otherwise of the tools used to achieve that communication."
Quite. | |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i got back in time to see you guys are still working on the same topic as when i left mexico 3 weeks ago. everything is a blurr at north of the border pace and i managed to steal a few minutes of computer time so i just wanted to say hi to all my amigos at the ofc site. it will take me awhile to read all of the posts over the last few weeks, and i have a few special guitars to report on----thanks bill--so i'll get back to the reading and check back in when i can steal some more cyber time. | |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | In various ways it's all been said here, guitars are very personal and given the chance will speak to you (and for you) The one that sounds best is the one for you.
A variation on this is that things change over time. Your styles of music, your tastes and preferences and your ears. From my personal experience I started on Ovations and for a while couldn't understand why people liked the sound of wood. After 15 years or so I began to appreciate what a wooden guitar had to offer and some of them sounded good, really good. Add another 20 years and now I love the way the Nationals ring. My playing style has changed too over the years contributing to this as well (it's still very sorry but that's another matter)
For what it's worth, there's another thought on sound. | |
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Location: TX | To cwk2: I agree that my tastes have changed and I do have other woodies that I play(including a Martin and Taylor),and the woody sound is great for various songs.But there are other tunes that sound much better with my Ovation.I don't use it for every song, but to disregard it as inferior(not you) is silly. Anything outside of the mainstream is always looked on with disdain.To me ,an Ovation has earned it's place with the elite.Many innovations have not earned their place until the 40,60,80 years later.Mozart was laughed at when he composed because the music he composed was different(I never saw the movie).So just because people want to buy an elite guitar because of what thay read or don't want to be snickered at because they own an "Ovation",shouldn't care;it's just another piece of the arsenal of "elite" that is needed when a certain sound is needed.(It's still my favorite guitar when I want to practice alone).
Mark,M.D. | |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | This thread has generated a lot of response and it shows what a tremendously broad support there is for the quality and innovation of the Ovation guitars. After playing for many years and attending numerous folk festivals, bluegrass shows where you jam 3 days straight etc. I have an observation to make that may rub the wooden acoustic snobs the wrong way. If you look at all the western movies, you see actors shooting these 19th century revolvers becuase thats what cowboys had, even though any 19th century cowboy or soldier would have carried a Glock if he could get it, as his life depended on his weapon. Folk and bluegrass people are like actors imitating the 1940's founders of the music playing 1940's instruments, so their instruments have to look the part. If Roy Rogers pulled out a 45 automatic, his career would be over even though he would be a much better killer, and folk players have the same slavish dedication to tradition even if they can't be heard. So, separate the myth from the reality, play what works in todays mileau. Look at Nickle Creek with those pickup cables sneaking out of their instruments, and the sound is terrific.
Bailey | |
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How other (Ovation opponents) people feel about Ovation guitars?