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Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | . . . has anyone had any experience with guitar humidifiers in old Ovations? Will they help prevent top shrinking/cracking?
I'm wondering if they would do more harm than good if:
A) the fact that the wood top would absorb the moisture and the bowl would not, causing the top to swell disproportionately.
or
B) if you had the guitar stored in the case with the humidifier for a month or so and then take it out in arid conditions for a gig for say, a period of 5 to 10 hours.
Any thoughts?
Wayne |
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Location: Scotland | Wayne, there's no easy right or wrong answer to this. It's dependant on the condition of the guitar (in terms of it's moisture content) the regional/seasonal climate, time of year, storage conditions, type of heating in your storage. Dryness causes cracking, especially with Ovations, where the top will shrink but the bowl will stay put. Too much humidity isn't good either. Hygrometers can help but you need to understand what they are telling you & how to act upon it. A traditional method was to put half an apple in the neck-box of your guitar case & replace it when it dried out. I don't actually know if this works but you'd always be sure of a snack. We get bitter winters here in the UK, & I ensure that my guitars are stored in their cases, in a room free from central heating. I haven't had a spilt or seam separation in 25 years. My 72 Legend split on it's original owner in the US
Paul
[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: SoCal | That's the advantage to living in southern California. All my guitars are out on stands, spread around the house and the only split occured on my 78 Legend, I think when my niece took it up north for 6 months in winter.
That's not gonna help you much in Nova Scotia, is it Wayne? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The important thing is the long term storage (living)conditions of the guitar. Having just been through a 3 year storage period in Florida I put a dehumidifier in the room. It helped keep things a little more stable. If where you live has long term conditions outside 35-50% hunidity you might want to set up a system in your house, either add or subtract. These units aren't that expensive, get them at any Lowes or HD. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | So what is the "optimal" storage humidity? |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Being a guitar collector and player as well as owning my own Heating and Air Conditioning business for over 20 years ,i think i can ad something to this topic..What you have to be careful with is indoor climate and humidity..I know some of you are mentioning where you live in the USA as a factor but what you must be careful with is not outdoor temp and humidity but indoor weather.No one keeps there instruments outdoors(i would hope) its the indoor climate that you have to treat..The most danger to your guitar is low humidity.Central Air units by design remove humidity from the air while they are running.Summertime is usually not a problem as there is usually plenty of humidity in the air even with the central air unit removing humidity.You can still maintain around 25-45% humidity...The real danger is winter gas central air systems(forced air systems)..They will really dry your home up and deplete your instruments,hardwoods,furniture,drapes and you of moisture..In the winter i would recommend a central air humidifier be added to your system to get the mositure level back to 25-45% as needed in a home..I have seen some homes get as low as 10% humidity and that will really hurt a guitar and other items in a home..So, if you have a central air furnace i would recommend a whole house central humidifier added to your system to replenish the moisture in the air that the dry forced air unit removes while conditioning your home.A good central air humidifier will cost around $400-$600 installed.Try and keep a hygrometer or moisture reading device on the wall to tell you if your house is too dry....Some of the more advanced thermostats on the market now give you a digital thermometer and hygrometer reading...If possible 30-45% is ideal..10 -15% may be too low .....If your humidity level in your home is correct 25-45% it does not matter whethere you leave your guitars in a case or set them on a stand..Also,be careful of attics and damp basements as they are usually not treated by your central air system and can cause you problems with too little or too much moisture.... |
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Location: NJ | sam
I was told the whole house system units rust out the heater. any thoughts on that? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The rule of thumbs we always followed at the factory was 40%/70 degrees. Those are perfect conditions. That, a cold beer and a crowd cheering as you play (or as too often the case when you stop playing) |
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Location: NJ | the last couple of gigs I did it seemed to be 137 degrees F |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, the cheaper mist type humidifiers that they used to sell can rust your heater system.The nozzle would clog up and instead of a fine mist sprayed into the air stream,the clogged nozzle would just drip down into the furnace...
The newer technology humidifiers called bypass humidifiers and fan powered humidifiers do not rust your heater..They cost more money but in the long run they do a better job and do not rust your furnace...Aprilaire is one of the brands i use with great success... I have these in my home and they run during the cold winter months adding much needed moisture to the dry air.I keep my home around 35-45% humidity.... |
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Location: NJ | sam
if you ever get to jersey bring some wrenches... |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | What about the humidifiers sold at music stores . . . the ones that hang between the strings etc. Could these provide too much humidity being enclosed in area as small as a guitar case?
Wayne |
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Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I have always been suspicious of those guitar case humidifiers..How do they know when there is enough or too little humidity in the case.After all they dont have humidistats to regulate them..I still believe that if you have your whole house humidified properly(25-45%),it resolved your guitar problems as well as your hardwood floors,furniture,drapes,etc.etc....And more importantly it ads moisture back to "you" ....we dry up just like guitars... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Those hole plug humidifiers are good to give the guitar a shot if it has been in really dry conditions for a while. There is no control with them, it just adds as much humility as it can till it dries up. |
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Location: Scotland | I just received the latest email newsletter from Acoustic Guitar Magazine & they had this to say on the subject of humidity:
The most important factors in your guitar's welfare are temperature and humidity--both have a dramatic effect on the structural stability and playability of wooden instruments.
"Keep away from extremes of temperature," says Stan Werbin of Elderly Instruments in Lansing, Michigan. "I would say try to avoid prolonged exposure to temperatures under 50 or over 100 degrees Fahrenheit." That means keep you guitar out of the chilly basement and away from radiators and heating vents as well as intense direct sunlight, whether indoors or out. If you hang your guitar on the wall, avoid the outside
walls of the building. An extremely common guitar killer is the trunk or back of a car, which on a sunny summer day can do serious damage within a short period of time. Imagine yourself in the guitar's position; only leave your guitar in
places where you yourself would be comfortable.
Humidity is a subtler though no less important
consideration. Your regional climate is a major variable--a guitarist in bone-dry Arizona faces different issues from someone in sticky Florida--although many places experience high humidity on muggy summer days and low humidity during the winter when central heating dries out the indoor air. "Always keep your guitar well humidified," says Werbin. "At home, if possible, use a house or room humidifier that keeps the humidity between 40 and 50 percent. Don't trust cheap
gauges to measure humidity, since they are notoriously inaccurate." If your room or house is too dry, or if you are going away from home for an extended period of time, a soundhole humidifier (available at music stores) will keep
your guitar in good shape, although you need to be careful not to overhumidify or spill water on it. Watch your instruments: if your guitar is too dry, the top may sink and the strings may start to buzz on the higher frets, while excessive humidity may make the top bulge out and the action
too high. For high humidity, a room dehumidifier or else a silica gel pack in the case will keep moisture in the normal range. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | This topic comes at an interesting time for me, here in New Mexico (a high desert) we turn on our evap coolers at this time and go from low winter humidity to nearly 100% inside the house. My guitars (a Viper and an acoustic) started buzzing as soon as I played them with the cooler on, but after a day or two they are getting back to normal as they humidify throughout. Not good, but if you think of a guitar as a tool you are going to have to play in some terrible conditions if you play in a band, that is what a professional instrument does is function under tough conditions. The instruments I have kept over the years are the ones that will play for 4 or 5 hours with a minimum of tuning and adjustment.
This is one quality of good instruments!
Bailey |
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Posts: 17
Location: Colorado | My 77 Legend has spent its life in Colorado. Normal humidity in the summer is around 35% and in the winter with forced air furnace, 10% or less inside.
The guitar neck has not budged in 20 years but the top has sunken about .150" on either side of the bridge. I dont know if the guitar was like that when I bought it or not. But the action has not changed at all in that time. No crack in the top or in the finish.
I've heard that the first few years of a guitars life are the modt critical. Once the woods settle they will likely not depreciate much after that. Certainly my guitar would support that theory, but I wouldnt take a chance.
I didnt know my guitar had a solid top until yesterday, so I had not bothered to humidify it the last twenty years. I put a Planet Wave humidifier from D'Addario in it last night.
I hope I dont take the guitar out of it's comfort zone and cause more problems since it has never been treated this well before.
I'll post any negative results of the "better late than never" humidty experiment. |
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Location: Tennessee | Here is one of the better discussions about temperature and humidity i have seen:
http://www.santacruzguitar.com/scgc_care.htm
I know, I know, it's one of those "other" guitar companies, but we always need to be doing some industrial espionage, no? ;) |
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Location: Scotland | Daddario/Planet Waves have just introduced an electronic humidity meter for guitars. At last you can now tell if you need to humidify, & more importantly, by how much. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Since I started this thread in May I have installed an inexpensive ($75cdn=$48usd) humidity induction system right into my forced air furnace and it seems to work just fine. I guess the real test will be when the winter hits and the outside humidity drops to 10%. I was maintaining 55% for a few days but that seemed a little high so droped it back to the mid to high 40's.
It works by re-circulating a portion of the air from the hot air duct back through a drum that stays wet by rotating in a pan of water. Very low tech but does the job. This way, not only do the guitars stay humidified but so does everything and everyone else!
Wayne |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | That is probably the best solution to the problem. Do you find that your necks warp in the winter when the heat starts and bow in the summer when the humidity comes on (October/April) When I lived in Ct. it seemed to be that way. In the fall I had to rake leaves and crank them down 1/4 turn, in the spring back it off. |
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Location: Colorado | Wow 55%!
I have a Lennox Humidispray system installed and I can never reach 35% in winter. Except when it was new, once, I got it to condense the windows on a cold day. I think that was too much. after all I dont want mold to take hold of my timbers.
That Lennox is something I dont really like. It has made a mess of my duct work and wastes a ton of water. No tellen what is growing in the vents now.
:mad: |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | cwktwo
I do see an ever so slight change from winter to summer but rarely enough to warrant adjustment. Hopefully with the central humidifier there will be no noticeable difference at all now, although I will still probably have to rake the leaves! The only exception to this was, oddly enough, my Glen Campbell SS Adamas which you would think would be the least susceptible. The first couple of season changes it required adjustment and then it seemed ok after that...maybe it needed some time to get climatized. The previous owner had lived in Oklahoma.
bc;
We haven't had any cold weather to speak of as of yet but the furnace has been on for the last couple of weeks. I'll be able to tell better in a couple of months but even if it maintains 20-25% in the coldest weather, that should be enough.
Here is a link to the website for the model I have if anyone wants to look into getting one.
Wayne
Thermolec Humidifier
[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: Bluebird ] |
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To Humidify or not to Humidify . . .