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Location: Pennsylvania | On my Elite T, I've developed a buzz/rattle in the brige. It only buzzes on the low A and E strings. It appears when I'm picking single notes or playing barre chords. Am I playing too hard, or is there not enough of a groove for the sting on the saddle, or is the pickup loose and rattling?? Any suggestions?
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Scotland | It's not the pickup. It's unlikely to be coming from the bridge unless you have adjusted the action so low there is no break-angle and you're getting a resonance from behind the saddle. There's lot's of potential sources of rattles & buzzes in electro-acoustic Ovations, usually easily sorted. Does it happen at every fret or just one or two notes? Is the neck relief OK? Is the nut too low? Are you sure it's coming from the bridge? It could also be components such as the battery holder, preamp housing or output jack vibrating in sympathy with specific notes. It could even be a loose brace. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | I'm still working on locating the buzz. It sure sounds like its coming from the saddle, but I'm working through all the attached parts... It only seems to happen on a couple lower frets (1 and 3 or something) on the E string (occasionally on the A string, but much quieter). Though it could just be certain notes that set it off--you notice things like that when playing in a room with a snare drum in it--the drum only buzzes in response to certain notes. I'll keep looking for it and see what I see. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | snowlock
I'd check the action carefully, the low strings vibrate in a wider pattern than the high strings, so a low action for the trebles will cause buzzing on the bass side. Most bridge saddles are contoured to adjust for this. The bass side of the saddle should be higher than treble side, if not you might have to decide if you want to have it recontoured and shimmed. This is not a complicated adjustment, and again, if you bought your guitar from a knowledgable dealer, he would have made these adjustments before delivery. The other side of the equation is you will learn a lot about setting up a guitar when you buy on line, as you tend to end up doing it yourself, that's not all bad. If the action is low enough, a little shimming might do it. There are some good tips on the board for this, try searching on "shims" or some variation thereof. Good Luck.
Bailey
Maybe this is a good place to complain that even the best guitars come from the factory needing a setup from the dealer before delivery in my experience. |
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Location: Scotland | Baily, I don't think that is a valid complaint.A Factory set-up is by definition an average & general set-up that will work for some, but by no means all players, & does not take into account string/action preference or playing style. The factory would argue that final set-up is at point of sale or later & I would agree. Setting up a guitar is not difficult. It takes a little experience, but mostly it takes someone's time, which has to be paid for. Dealers who will set-up guitars to player preference will charge for this service, even if that means they discount a little less at the point of sale. If you buy a new guitar at a knock-down price it's unreasonable to expect it to be adjusted to your personal preferences & playing-style straight out of the box. Ultimately we're back to the kind of service you get from a local store compared to a mail-order box-shifter.
Paul
Snolock, it's difficult to identify the problem without seeing & hearing the guitar, but I'd put money on it needing a little more neck-relief. Have it checked by a pro.
[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Bailey, the bass side on the saddle is way lower than the treble side. I'll have it checked out. I want higher action all around anyway, so in addition to a bridge shim, I'll see about getting it reshaped. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Paul T
You are right on the money as usual. But I am going to disagree with you on a technically relevant point. When I got totally into playing, there were publications that would list in great detail how to set up a guitar etc. , the reason was is that there weren't many music stores that would set up a guitar because band music was the thing, part of guitar playing was being able to set up your instrument, and I think todays players should learn those skills. Unless you are a star, there are fewer and fewer places to take your guitar for adjustment or repair, and the few that are left are apt to try to pay their months rent with a string replacement. Your advice to have it checked by a pro assumes there is a pro somewhere to check it. Most marketing and sales people wouldn't know a saddle from a martini. The technicians are retired and chuckling in the background on this board.
Bailey (my soul is lost again} |
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| Can I ask a dumb question from a newbee? Currently I play with Elixcer(sp) lights, and have the same buzz. My question is would a heavier string help?
Thanks as always,
Shane
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: beantown ] |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Shane, I'm not an expert on buzzes, since I myself am having trouble with a bit of a buzz, but I dont think light strings contribute too much. It's most likely something else. I'll let someone more knowledgeable cut in here. |
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Location: Pensacola,FL | Speaking as someone who does this sort of thing as a "hobby" rather than a full-time job, a luthier can best tell where and why a string is buzzing by inspecting the instrument. Sometimes a minor adjustment to nut or saddle is all it takes to "fix" the problem (however these "adjustments" are sometimes very minute and require special tools - hence the need to either have those tools or take the guitar to someone that does). Most instruments that I "make" go out of here with what I refer to as a "medium" action, which means
1. playable 2. correct intonation 3. average string height. After that any "personalized" adjustments/setup are either left to the customer to have done elsewhere or specified to me which I do - WITH THEM RIGHT HERE IN THE SHOP at no charge of course to them (I like :D customers and am glad to set up their instrument the way they want it). So................I told you all that to tell you this, try to find an old fart like me in your area, someone who is/was a luthier
but doesn't need a pint of your blood or a first-born son as payment for his work. From one of those old retired technicians Bailey spoke of.. ;) |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | OGL1
I'll second that, and I know a lot of players that are doing just what you said, taking their instruments to retired, competent, instrument repair people working out of their homes.
As such a person, do you have any theory as to why we have so many more guitars around and so few repair people? Are the kids throwing them away when they get out of adjustment and buying new ones? Please let us know your take on this subject.
Paul T.
I was making my factory setup remarks from my experience hanging out at my friend Bill's Poway Music Store. Bill used to take every guitar he got from the factory into his shop area, string it up, tune it up let it set for a day or two then check all the settings and adjust and fix whatever he could to a good playable condition almost exactly as OGL1 has just described, and after he sold it he encouraged the buyer to bring it back anytime it wasn't right, do any stores do that today? (I'm sure it will occur to some or all of you that he has been out of business for over 20 years.)
Bailey
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: NJ | although it has changed somewhat years ago Martin guitars were set up with meduim strings ( martin mediums are equal to almost everyone else's heavy) and high action. They were setting their guitars up for the strumming flatpicker customer. Shops that sold tons of Martins would have them set up in house with lower action and lighter strings and people would love them.
Currently in the market place factory set ups are for the average player. I have seen shops set up electrics with such light action that ever change in humidity required a truss rod adjustment in fact I know of one guy that NEVER puts the truss rod cover on this guitar and has been know to do adjustments mid song. I think this is way out of line but what do I know>? I have only been playing guitar most of my life. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Well, I took the guitar to the local dealer and told him about the string buzz, the "saddle buzz" and he said "welcome to the world of acoustics." I was like, "No, fix it." :p He then played it and said he'd see what he could do. He said he'd adjust the truss rod to give some relief, and file the saddle to possibly fix the bad sounding b string. I'm really not sure if he's going to help one bit, but I'll let ya'll know tomorrow. If this doesn't work, I'm not sure what I'll resort to next. |
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Location: Scotland | A comment like "welcome to the world of acoustics" as if owners of acoustic guitars have to live with instruments which don't work properly, suggests someone with his head up his ass. I'd take your guitar to someone with a more realistic attitude. Incidentally the bad-sounding b-string could be caused by the nut. Take the string out of the slot & place it on the nut, bring it up to pitch & listen to the tone. If it sounds better it's down to a badly-cut nut slot.
[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Paul, that's wonderful to hear--I'd hate to think that I'm just overreacting to 3 different buzzes and a poor sounding b string, etc. When I get it back, I'll do the test with placing the string on the nut. So what if it is the nut? Would it need replaced? Is that complicated/expensive?
However, here in the rural mountains of pennsylvania, I dont have too many options on who to take it to. There's a Ovation service center 2 hours away in State College, but I've never been there, so I cant say they'd be any better. Hmm.
[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Scotland | Tom, there's a neat bodge you can try to fix a worn nut-slot without replacing the entire nut. You need some bone dust, so saw or file a piece of bone, collect the dust & mix it into a paste with a dab of superglue, You need to work fast because it goes off real quick. Fill the nut slot with the paste, let it set & recut the nut. A variation on this is to file a slot into the nut
& fill it with a piece of bone, but this is fiddly & takes about as long as cutting a whole new nut from scratch. Either way you need to have a few basic tools and know how to cut a nut. Based on what I know of UK prices a luthier would probably charge around $35-50 to make and fit a new nut.
Paul
[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Pennsylvania | I'll see what this guy does for it, and then see what I can do for it, and if all else fails, I'll take it to a warranty service center and see if I can pass it as faulty so they'll repair it... Even if I end up having to pay money, I'm willing to do it though.
[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | snowlock
I'm going to make a suggestion that might not endear you to these repair types that blame the customer for buying the wrong guitar etc.. Guitar repair is not like auto repair where the customer, for "insurance" reasons, can't go into the work area. I would insist on being allowed to observe whatever repair is done on your guitar and if they refuse, take it elsewhere. If they know what they are doing, they shouldn't mind, and you will learn useful things. If they refuse, take it somewhere else, they will probably return your guitar in worse shape than they got it and blame the guitar for not being "right". A good repair person should be proud of his ability and happy to explain what he is doing and why.
Bailey |
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Location: Pensacola,FL | :D A M E N ! ! ! ;) |
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Location: tennessee | Hey, guys and girls. I'm a newbie. I came to this sight trying to find out if anyone else had this bridge buzzing problem. I'm playing a Celebrity CC059. The original strings sounded great but low A began to buzz. Well, it was time for string change anyway,so,I put Augustine normal tension strings on because that's what I use on my Yamaha CG-100A. Still bridge buzz. I contacted Ovation and they said, "Hie thee hither to thy nearest warranty repair shop." I finally got around to it in early June. Two shops listed in Memphis that were supposed to be Ovation warranty shops and neither wanted to fool with. One shop actually dissed my guitar because I had bought it off the internet from My Friends. ;) Restringed with D'Addario EXP Extra Hard tension strings. Still buzzed. I took a deep breath and destringed the guitar, took out the saddle, and gently lifted the pickup. The guitar had 4 SHIMS. (No wonder my saddle leaned so much toward the soundhole.) I played with the shims for awhile til I got the lean problem solved AND the buzzing stopped. I also had to adjust the neck (Another deep breath :eek :) and solved a fret buzz problem. The guitar played great for months, but recently the bridge buzz has returned. I did another restring with some hard tension D'Addario strings and played with the shims some more but, the buzz still comes and goes. Yes this is one of the Korean made Ovations but this guitar really sounds great acoustically and plugged in to my church's sound system. I really need to get a grip on this problem before my church's Christmas programs.
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Location: Scotland | Well, you've done pretty well by yourself up to now. Adjusting a guitar isn't difficult, you just need a basic understanding of the mechanics & a little experience. As the problems have returned over a period of months it would suggest that the guitar is responding to changes in climate/humidity. Check it yourself, you got it right once, there's no reason why you can't put it right again. |
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Location: tennessee | Thanks, Paul. That was beginning to be my suspicion. We have a humid climate here in Tennessee, whether its summer or winter. It's just frustrating because the guitar sounds really good. I've kept the guitar in a case made by SKB because the case was a gift from my family for the Applause I sold to buy this Ovation. Would an Ovation case make any difference? |
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Location: Scotland | Do a search through past posts on "Humidifers" or "Humidity" |
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bridge buzzing problem on elite t