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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | ...lurk off
Hello all,
I recently began to collect some of the Ovation solidbodies I've always loved and thanks to folks like Al and Miles and other posters here, I've learned an awful lot about these wonderful instruments.
One thing I've learned the hard way, however, is that most folks outside of this circle are clueless as hell about these axes. When it comes to some of the folks working in repair shops around here (The Live Music Capital of the World-so says the Chamber of Commerce), my small amount of acquired knowledge seems vast by way of comparison. I had an argument with one guy who runs the shop at a local outlet of a national music store chain, who insisted that my Viper was really a Preacher and that I didn't know what I was talking about (he also insisted they were only made in the 80's).
The current nightmare that brings me to this Tolstoyesque first post involves my Preacher Deluxe. This is one of the best feeling, looking, sounding and playing guitars I've ever owned (thanks Al). I'd put it up against my Paul (sorry) or my Strats (sorry again) anyday. When I got it some of the switches were a just a little scratchy and it had a couple of spots that exhibited ever so slight fret buzz pretty high on the fretboard. So I took it in for a general tuneup/setup. Now, I won't mention the guy's name here, but its safe to say that he's one of the most revered guitar tech gurus in Austin. To make an already lengthy story a little shorter, after 3 trips to his workbench the guitar is in worse shape than it was before I took it to him, with incredibly high action, not to mention my high intake of guitar headache related ibuprofen.
I guess my questions would be this: Have any of you experienced this lack of touch with Ovation solidbodies from otherwise respectable shops and what do you do about it (besides work on them yourselves)?
Thanks for letting me vent and thanks for the existence of this website.
lurk on... |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Mark
I'm a Viper owner with an attitude. You are right about todays guitar repair people. read the post about buzzing on the new elite T. We are all thinking about a solution short of the nearest lamppost.
Bailey |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Mazk
I am sad to hear that. That particular guitar is gorgous and played rather well when I shipped it to you.
Well to answer your question abosolutely YES |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | lurk off...
Al, I didn't mean to imply that there was anything wrong with it when I got it. I was quite happy with it when it arrived. I just thought a little spit n' polish (the same tuneup routine I go through on virtually all my new guitars) would be fine. The scratchy switch was really not bad and I could have cleaned it myself, and the fret buzz was barely noticeable. Now after the first time I got it back from this guy, you couldn't play any open string or virtually any chord up to the 7th fret without it buzzing like crazy. Nightmare. I would've been perfectly content to keep it home and continue to play it just as it was, which as I mentioned, was a great deal better than it is now. Get a rope... |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | This is a rather obvious statement, but since I didn't know this when I got my first electric, I'll say it anyway and let you guys know that I'm the nozzle you think I am.
Mark, an electric that buzzes when played unplugged won't necessarily buzz when played plugged in. I'm assuming that you played it both ways and the strings buzzed and rattled both ways. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | Paul, correct, yes and yes. :) (Wow, I actually can write a short post!) |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 52
Location: PA | Back when I didn't know what my GP was I took it to a tech who quickly recognized it as a 'Viper' he told me how they all came stock with active pickups.....when I got the guitar back he told me he had found the original specs for the guitar and re-wired it that way for me, he said instead of two vol. and two tone knobs, the viper came with FOUR volume knobs (who knew!) He also put a soldering iron burn on the neck and lost the truss rod cover. I wasn't pleased. This was quite awhile ago though, and since then I've found a tech I trust. But back then I didn't know anything about my guitar either....I'm glad this site is here so we at least know what it is we have before we take it to a shop.
sorry to hear about your bad experience.... |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I've always found the Ovations to be rather easy to set up. I also found that you could bring back an almost unplayable guitar into shape because of the design. There are several good books on the subject and it's really quite simple, just requires a little patience. I was afraid to attack a setup for along time... then I just jumped in, and felt kinda silly. Repair is another story, but just setup, intonation, neck adjust, bridge adjust is really a piece of cake if you have a little patience and can follow directions. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | Thanks Miles, I think I will get one of those several good books. This experience has inspired me to want to be competent enough to work on my own guitars. Especially the ones with the brand name starting with "O". Besides, I really didn't like the last explanation/excuse I heard about the "limits of that particular guitar."
Any literary recommendation you could make in particular?
(This thread is really endangering my lurker status) |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | They problem with a lot of guitar techs is that they think to make a customer happy with a set-up it has to be as low, light & easy to play as possible. If a tech doesn't ask questions about your string gauge/action preference and playing style then you are probably going to end up with an instrument that wont work for you. In some cases this can be the fault of the customer who does not give clear enough instructions to the tech, but equally theres a bunch of people who call themselves guitar repairers just because they own a soldering iron & a couple of needle files. Unfortualely a good reputation in this field does not seem to be an guarantee of the quality of work. I get at least a guitar a month to put right from players who have had appalling work done by a couple of highly respected local techs.
Paul |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | Paul, somehow knowing the vastness of the problem is less than comforting. :) I think finding someone who's excited about the work they do is really the key. Its with someone now who was recommended to me as being "very passionate" about the guitar work he does. I liked the way that sounded. Of course, I was also warned that he wasn't very nice. Oh well, I don't want to have tea with him, I just want my guitar fixed.
I've been semi-retired for about the last year. Maybe I need to spend some time learning this craft myself while I've got the time. I'm way too young to waste away in front of the computer all day. :) |
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March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | mark, i encourage you to learn as much as you can about working on your guitars. especially, in the case of electric guitars most of the setup is done with screws, which can put back to where you left off if you don't get the desired result. the main benefit, is that every playing style does best with it's own particular setup. unless your guitar tech knows your style he is guessing. ie if you are playing hard drive metal you can get away with string buzz and go for lower action. if you are finger picking clean james taylor stuff its a whole different ballgame. all guitars have their own personal characteristics, and players are even more individual. it helps to tweak to optimize. and who can better say what's right for you? |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Well said russ, my Viper came with a little booklet explaining all the adjustments and giving some of the factory dimensions. As you have said, the adjustments can all be made with a screwdriver, phillips and standard.
Mark, if you are careful you can experiment with different settings until you are satisfied. The only one that is maybe not advisable to adjust too much or often is the neck tension, and there are excellent posts here on those. If you can find one of the booklets, it is a good start, I could send you copies of mine but it would have to be by old fashioned fax as I don't have a scanner. Maybe the company has them available.
Bailey |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | Well, I've kinda done an about face since my first post and the comment, "...besides work on them yourselves." Tomorrow if it still hasn't gone out to be looked at by the second guy, I'm gonna pick it up and bring it back home. I'll try setting her up myself, but I'll probably guinea pig the beater Viper first.
Bailey, if you're referring to the Solidbody Owners Manual, I got one of those recently with my Deacon-12 (God, is that a great guitar or what). I noticed it had some tech specs in it, although a brief glance is all I've had at it.
And when I get through with the Viper, I'll do the PD and then there's that Ultra GS that could use use a setup and a cleaning of the electronics, then there's the Breadwinner that's in need of a little TLC, come to think of it my good Viper could stand to have the action lowered and one of the pickup switches on my UKII is a little finicky....ARRRRGHH!
Its all good. :) |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Mark
Well, there goes your semi-retirement. After you get all of yours adjusted, put out your sign, there seems to be a demand for people who know how to adjust solid bodies.
Bailey |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | one often overlooked tip-------as simple as this might sound------USE GOOD TOOLS!!!
once you bugger up a screw head because the screwdriver was the wrong size or wasn't "sharp" it will look like hell and will become harder and harder to get a grip on. also, pliers shouldnt be used in lieu of a proper wrench. i recently took my benz wagon in to a local garage to have the oil changed. the kid that was doing the "dirty deed" immediatly grabbed a pair of visegrips for the drain plug. i gave him an ass chewing i'm sure he probably won't forget, because right next to the visegrips were several correct tools to fit the plug. if you start out wrong more than the work suffers. a shortcut mentality leads to problems. after 22 years that car has never seen or needed a pair of vise grips. and unless it is an emergency it never will. i have a small set if good quality tools i only use for guitar repair. always clean and always handy for tweaking.
bailey makes a good point re neck tweaking. adding to that, if a neck is really out of adjustment, i straighten it in small increments over a period of, say a week. i also like to use a straight edge to verify what my eye says is correct. a good straigt edge will also help you find a high fret. it is important to use it in a line parallel with the string. most fretboards/frets are not dead flat side to side. i recently started playing with a laser pointer to check the neck. i wonder if there is anything being made using a cheap simple laser for basement luthiers. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | You couldn't be more right, russ. The right tool for the right job is one of the most important and overlooked aspects of any job. Visegrips, crescent wrenches and the like are appropriate far less than people use them.
Is your neck straightening method due to the way I've been told it takes a few days for a neck adjustment to "set in?" |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I agree the right tools are always needs whenever I come close to a guitar it is good to know that my hammerdrill, propane torch, air rachet and branding iron are close at hand. |
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June 2002
Posts: 123
Location: Pensacola,FL | On a serious note, good tools should also include
a good set of nut files. These are not cheap (about $12 each from Stew-MacDonald) however they
make an exact string slot/groove that NO needle file can ever do. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | Note to self - Do Not send guitars to Al. :)
Also, I never got that recommendation from Miles (or anyone) on what some good publications might be to give me some info on guitar repair. Are there any web sites that might get me started? Anyone else have some suggestions for other tools of the trade? I've been looking for something else to do and although my golf game might suffer, I feel a new hobby coming on. |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | check out the stwart-macdonald website.
Dan erlewine (sp) also has some good books on guitar set up also videos.
There are a ton of books out there on guitar repair and set up There is a two volumne set that was out of print for a while that was awesome but unfortunately the author and title escapes me.
May I suggest you buy some 10 dollar beater at a flea market and practice on that. there is nothing like hands on practice and experience.
now for power tools the Snap on catalog is good along with mac and Craftsman. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Central Texas | "now for power tools the Snap on catalog is good along with mac and Craftsman."
That's from the Bob Villa book, "This Old Axe," right? |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | One question I don't see answered here is what is the best kind of hammer to use on your guitar? Any tips? |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | I think the reason most people don't talk about hammers and guitars (Jeez, you'd think you'd already know this), is that everybody knows...
The best kind of hammer to use is either a ball peen or jack. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | You guys ought to know that you NEVER EVER use a hammer on a guitar, hatchets are the only tool that works because you can cut and pound. My army trenching tool works for some of the more delicate adjustment, a frozen screw responds well to a round from the old M-1. I learned all this working on army helicopters which are similar to guitars. The quality of advice from some people here would mislead a novice. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Also remember that if you need to work on a banjo the only tool required is a chainsaw.
Paul |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | nut files!!!?? i guess several of us could use them for personal grooming que no?
bill, i guess for your national collection a bunch of auto body hammers and dent pullers would be handy. for setting up a taylor i reccommend a chambersburg steam hammer. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Ahh yes...the ball peen hammer...."the Polish micrometer". |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | mark, i adjust the neck slowly because that is the way i get out of bed------poco a poco.
really, when you think about it it takes the wood awhile to respond to that ungiving new force. every once in awhile you will find a guitar with the neck arched instead of bowed. you might loosen the truss rod nut and even with strings tight it is still arched. then in a week or so it often relaxes a bit. wood seems to require patience and tlc. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | A little ditty we learned with the choppers;
Trencher for the phillips
hatchet for the slot
if the screw is frozen
Apply the M-1 shot
The army issued us armorers tool boxes at Fort Eustis to work on the helicopters, they even had pipe wrenches and small sledge hammers in them.
[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ]
[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Solidbody knowledge among guitar techs lacking