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Location: Pennsylvania | Hey, guys. I'm still looking to do something productive with that brand new, boxed-up elite special of mine. I just came across a 1712 Custom Balladeer made in 1991. They want 485.00 for it.
They said before they would give me 425 for the Elite Special in a trade, but I could possibly talk them into giving me more for it.
Would it be a smart trade? I am looking for a deep bowl, but will an 11 yr old guitar hold up for a while? What's good about it and whats bad? Finish, sounds, etc? Is the preamp any good? If it's not, it's okay, cause I just want this for an acoustic. Let me know what ya'll think. Thanks.
[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: SoCal | Boy, talk about a personal decision! I wouldn't have any problem with buying from Elderly Instruments. I believe that they are very reputable.
I also wouldn't have any problems buying an 11 year old Ovation. Of my 6 Ovations, one is 27 years old, on is 24 years old, two are 19 years old, one 14 years old, and the baby is 9 years old. All are in fine condition.
I've never owned a Custom Baladeer, but I've played them and my guitar teacher has one for his acoustic guitar and plays it heard. Sounds great. I also think you'll like the difference in sound from a mid depth bowl to a deep bowl.
And money wise, it's about right. |
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Location: Scotland | I have a 20 year old Custom Balladeer on the bench right now for a fret dress, general set-up & electronics upgrade. I personally wouldn't bother with the upgrade but the customer is always right. It's had a hard life but sounds great, not as refined as an Elite or Adamas maybe, but a big and robust sound. These guitars are workhorses, you could do a lot worse. Don't worry about the electronics, the pre will probably be a FET3 & they work fine, if you need extra EQ go buy a Baggs Para-acoustic DI or something similar.
Paul
[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Hey Tom,
That's a nice looking Balladeer you're talking about... looks just like my '78 1612, 'cept mine has a truss rod cover (no k-bar or whatever) and after 24 years, I'd say it's holding up wonderfully! I love the sound of the deep bowl unplugged-it especially shines comparing it to shallow or mid bowls. I don't know anything about Elderly Instruments, but I have seen acoustic only Legends go for way less than $485 (on ebay for example)- without getting hosed on a trade. Just one guy's opinion, but like Moodypi and Paul T. have indicated, you certainly could do worse than what you have suggested. Btw, what was the top bid on your elite when you tried to sell it on ebay? Take care and good luck :)
-Rich |
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Location: Pennsylvania | After not selling it on a 7 day auction, I put it up for a 10 day. At the end of the 10 day auction, it only got up to 406. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | the reality of selling anything that isn't an essential in this economy is tough.
i have several ovations over 20 years young. the baladeer is a working musicians amigo. they are rugged and yet sound great and hold up to the punishment of gigging. (i use one on each foot when i go frog gigging.)
when it comes to deciding between two good guitars, play em both and follow your gut feeling. the fact that you are choosing between ovations good stuff already tells me you are not one of the mainstream guitar playing sheep out there. all you have to do is refine an already good choice. |
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Location: NJ | hmmmm.......wasn't THIS the same guy that was crying "help! help! I've bought too many guitars....I'm going bankrupt!....my wife is gonna kill me!......".....now he's lookin' to trade in for yet ANOTHER guitar?!?!?!?!?
That's all.
I'm just asking.
Hell, Snow; I'd probably do the same thing!!!!
I've got a 27 year old Custom Balladeer that hasn't even come CLOSE to letting me down ONCE!!!
You always seem to hear the term "workhorse" bantered about with these guitars. Nothing could be closer to the truth. I gig with mine constantly! The only thing that ever gives up is the occasional string(s). My lead guitarist uses a pair of ESP electrics and a Korean Fender (kim-chi crate) acoustic. My Balladeer stays more in tune over the course of one four-hour gig than his does over the course of a month!
The CB isn't particularly "frilly' or "flashy", but it's RELIABLE and it SOUNDS GOOD!! (both acoustic AND plugged-in) |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Nope, thankfully, that wasn't me. That was Norseman.
I'm unmarried. That means whenever I want a new guitar, I just tell my girlfriend, "Hey, hun, I'm getting another guitar." and she says, "I thought you said you weren't going to buy another guitar for a long time." And I then I buy it.
No, I was the guy that bought 2 guitars at the same time and wanted to sell the one I didn't want. If you recall, I said I either needed 600 dollars, or if I didn't get that, I'd probably trade it on something of use to me, since I didn't want the shallow body. If I did get the balladeer though, I'd probably give my elite t to my brother. (just to be nice, cause he likes it).
If I dont trade for the balladeer, I'll consign the elite special at Elderly (and probably take the opportunity to consign my DeArmond too).
Russ-
About choosing only between Ovation guitars...
Of all the acoustic guitars, the Ovation just makes the most sense. Very rugged, good projection, good bridge design, good cutaway, smart designs and good components all around. It's pretty obvious that Ovation has the best design out there.
[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: NJ | wonder where old norseman is?????? |
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Location: Pennsylvania | ...I was just thinking that myself! He was quite active in the days when he accidentally bought that deep bowl balladeer.
Hmm...maybe contrary to what he last said, his wife was pissed at him for buying that guitar! ...acted like she didn't mind, but then, when norsy least expected it, she struck! "No more Internet for you! No internet, no making thoughtless last minute bids!" ;) Poor Norseman. |
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Location: SoCal | Guys, if memory serves, Norsey is a teacher. It's the start of a school year and he's probably busy. Or his wife killed him for excessive ebay buying. |
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Location: NJ | funny the beginning of the school year never used to bother me...I guess it is all in how you are prepared and how you approach it... butI am just a lowly gear seller now |
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Location: SoCal | I would say "That should teach you something", but obviously, it never did. |
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Location: NJ | $300 a day plus expenses
I learned all I need to know from tv |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | so tom, you really have my curiosity going. how did you wind up with the elite to begin with? what exactly are you after? i think you might do better than elderlys deal on the balladeer. i like the ss bodied guitars as i play on stage allot and plugged in they are great. much more comfortable and less feedback than the deep bowl. |
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Location: SoCal | Al there's a book title in there somewhere. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Ha. Good story...sort of.
I ordered the Elite Special from a dealer in NY.
Due to some confusion, it turned out to be a shallow (apparently, he always orders shallows and nothing else). I wanted at least a mid.
So as the dealer was shipping the guitar over the border to PA (to exempt me from tax), I came across an official internet dealer with a mid bowl Elite T.
I loved the features, the look, the sound-aiding and indestructable thin paint job.
I figured, hey, since there's an Elite Special on the way that I dont want, I'll just buy this, cause I thought, it cant be too difficult to turn around and sell a wrapped up, unplayed, in-the-box Elite Special with the new preamp, blah blah...
I was wrong.
So here I sit with two guitars. An Elite Special, packaged up and lonely, and an Elite T which is suffering buzzes from possibly a poor nut and saddle...but that's a different thread.
So it's a story of bad luck and dumb choices.
So I'm currently considering more dumb choices. ;)
So there we have it. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Boys (the cowboy always says boys when it's bad news)
Snowlock said "I'm unmarried. That means whenever I want a new guitar,... And then I buy it."
I didn't see one of you pointing out that us married people never even want to go out and buy a guitar just like that. None of us has ever showed up with a new instrument, no no no, we plan these things with our wives, unmarried people don't know the pleasure of sacrifice for the family, the rent, groceries, what a pleasure to meet those responsibilities. Going out and buying a guitar, heavens no, every one of us has carefully fitted it into our budgets. I assume everybody on the board has at least one guitar.
We don't envy you snowlock, not at all. Buy your guitars and don't blame us if your not happy like we are, seeing all those deals passing us by as we get older an older. you're out there swimming in a sea of attractive guitars and not knowing what you're missing by not having groceries and rent and a wife eyeing our guitars that we already have, who has convinced us that one guitar should be enough.
None of us married guys would even want to buy a new guitar just because we want it.
Back to Ebay, just looking dear.
Bailey ;)
[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Ha! I got a real kick out of that, Bailey!
I see now that you have it much better than me.
I did go ahead on the deal. I think I'll be quite pleased with it. I could probably do better, but I think I'll be more than happy, being a big acoustic guy.
I'm going to give the elite t to my brother, so that makes me feel good about it too. He needs a good guitar--time for him to get rid of that old epi acoustic. Anyway, wish me luck, y'all. Someday I'll be as happy as you. :D |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | snowlock
Enjoy it while you can, some beautiful lady will come along and praise your ability to select guitars, your talent in playing them, how handsome you look holding your favorite guitar, and as love blooms, she will post on this site a series of "how much is this guitar worth" postings as she converts your life's collection of guitars to cash. Will we try to save you, of course, after we have bought all your guitars at a tenth of their value. what are married friends for?
Bailey :cool:
I hope your brother lets you play his Elite T once in a while after this happens. :D
[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: SoCal | All this reminds me of a Taylor ad (I like their guitars, but I often love their ads!) where a man says:
"I could home home and drink instead of playing the guitar, but my wife would never compliment me how how good my drinking's getting."
Or something like that. |
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Location: NJ | I hate that ad Paul.
They say nothing about the guitar and give no information. It is like the ads on tv that after you see then company logo at the end you said now how did that advertise (fill in the bland ) cars, soda, jeans, soap, beer, etc here |
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Location: SoCal | Of course. Like all good ads, they are selling a benefit, not the product. This is why Ovation ads drive me nuts. The benefit they sell is for 20 year olds that want to be cool. Taylor ads are geared to people like me. Trouble is, I've played too many Taylors and just aren't that impressed. But the ads have put Taylors in my hands. Ovation ads don't even make me want to pick up an Ovation. Only my track record with them make me want to try anything they have.
One other note while I'm on my soapbox. The Taylor ads I've seen never show somebody famous playing their guitars. They are just damn good ads. Ovation should take a note from that. It's not necessarily the endorsee that makes a good ad. |
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Location: NJ | I kinda like that ad campign as well. I thought that one that Martin was using was good too, but it seemed just a bit TOO "hokey". Granted, the ads don't give alot of specific info on the guitars, but it "humanizes" the product. I liked the one with the woman holding up a lighter and the copy says something like "...it's nice when your wife and your groupie are the same person.."
(Granted, if they'd used a really nice "MILF" in the pic , it would'a been better, but it was a good ad none the less). There's also one something like "..16 and a half seconds - that's how long it took Joe Blow to buy a new Taylor - that includes the 3.6 seconds to "flinch" at the price tag..." At least they're honest in that they're admitting that they're probably not the best choice for the entry-level guitarist. There's that damn obligatory Celebrity that keeps getting shown in Musician's Friend for that.
I do have to say that the one Ovation ad that I do like is the current one highlighting the new Optima system. Doesn't say much about the guitars, but that pre-amp sure looks purrrrty.
A 20 year-old John Mayer wannabee's not gonna spend the bucks for an Adamas/Legend/Elite. But a forty-year-old who's wife is "allowing" him to keep half of his annual bonus or tax check MIGHT.
HE'S the one that's gonna relate to the guy with the SEG, the half cup of coffee, the dogs lumbering around while his wife smiling in the ad. There's a bigger market of those types of guys than there are 19-year-olds with rich daddies.
If Ovation were smart, they'd some of us in they're ad campaigns.
....and more than likely, they'd get us for FREE!! |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Yeah, a big picture of us with our guitars infront of the factory for the OFC convention.
It'd make a great ad. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | great idea cliff and tom. like that apple computer ad i saw this summer---regular people who use the product with success endorsing the product. there have to be thousands of small time giggers and parlour musicians playing ovations for every one that made the "cover of the rolling stone". the thing is most ovation players and loyal owners don't own them because of any ads. i never bought a guitar because of an ad--------always played em and then decided. and then after years of use a musician has a valid basis for their preferences. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | In my opinion, Ovation really needs to revamp their ads and appearance.
I realize they're the "daring" guitar company using composites and all, but Taylor, Gibon, and Martin's serious, more elegant approach to ads and public appearance are much more appealing to the guitar playing public, and gain them a much better reputation.
Ovation totally has what it takes as far as guitars and sounds, but I think they need to tone down their approach a bit, and boost themselves with some elegance, or they're going to continue in the public eye as the "cheap alternative-guitar company."
Also, in my opinion, they need to take a lesson from some other serious guitar companies, and use a bit more beautiful artistry on _some_ of their guitars to appeal to different tastes.
Also, almost all (if not every) Taylor guitar has fishman electronics, but Taylor isn't yelling "hey, were an acoustic electric guitar company!" and no one thinks of them as one. Therefore, they are considered "real acoustic" guitars that have the option of using electronics.
I think it'd be great if Ovation could work and change those aspects of its reputation, and along with the guitars they already have available, make some more deep bowls available, non-cutaways, different tops, and (I think this would be awesome) make some jumbo models, concert models, and things such as that.
I just think that they shoud step up their appearance to an elegant level, boast the sound and brilliant design of their guitars, add guitars to the line that could be more appealing to every taylor, martin, and gibson fans (such as jumbos, concerts, and an elegant touch), and I think they could make a huge impact!
Well, I know I might get totally ripped for writing all that, but I think it could really help Ovation immensely and only broaden and improve what we already love about the guitars.
I think with the right marketing and appearance revamp, they could actually get themselves a great set of fists against the "mainstream" guitar companies...
[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: SoCal | So I'm not the only one dissatified with Ovation's marketing effort. This is good to know. Does anybody here like the ads they've seen in the last year?
I believe that the new Folklore is a step in the right direction. Does any body have any info on how it's sales of this guitar have been? I believe that it was over priced, but a guitar in the right directon. If Ovation really wants to build a great sounding guitar, put an Adamas top on the folklore body and sell it for no more than $2200. My guess is that it would sell for the acoustic sound alone.
And then market it as an acoustic sound guitar. Sell the Celbritys to the 20 year olds. Sell a quality acoustic guitar to me (47 years old). I can afford the better instrument (don't tell my wife I said that). |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Agreed!
Ovation has what it takes to be viewed as just as good as Taylors, Gibsons and Martins.
Ovations are such good guitars with such good potential, but they're viewed as acoustic-electrics rather than acoustics that happen to have electronics.
I think they need a total image and advertizing revamp.
Quoted from Taylor's site:
"Freshened, refined, simplified, and focused, the expanded line for 2001-02 is the best expression yet of Taylor's dedication to quality."
"Woods, shapes, sizes, cutaways, construction, electronics, cases, hardware, bracing..."
Those are some good examples of their elegant and perfected aproach to advertizing and image.
Taylor currently has 80 models, 73 full-sized guitars ALL with solid wood tops. They claim to be "more playable, more beautiful and more acoustically appealing than ever." Look at their web site, at all the different models they have, all the different woods they make available...
(no offence to anyone, but I'd love to see Ovation combine the korean-ovations and the applause models as one company, and make Ovation all american, all solid...)
I would love to see Ovation put out a Jumbo model for the agressive strummers.
I would love to see them put out some more wood choices for tops (koa, engleman, sapele) and add some more optional frills (see taylor limiteds) that dont look cheap.
Sorry to keep siting Taylor, but they have the beautiful-looking guitar thing down and the good advertizing down as well.
Okay, okay. I'll stop my never ending nagging and complaining. After all that, I still can say I think Ovations are wonderful, but they have a TON of potential that they arent using!!!
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Great discussion of Ovation ads, many great ideas.
My complaint is that I don't even see any Ovation ads, or they don't catch my attention, and I'm a very attentive reader. Two new guitars this year, old solid body on the cover of Guitar Player and there's not one add in that 'zine to catch anybody's attention. Does the company expect that past reputation will get them free publicity. We spent many posts discussing their new guitars, one small ad announcing and promoting them doesn't seem a lot to ask. Has anybody seen an ad promoting the Elite T or the new folklore? Kinda reminds me of the Harley's when AMC decided they weren't worth promoting.
Bailey |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Well, the custom balladeer should be coming soon--mid to late this week, with any luck.
I'll let you all know how it goes. I cant wait to get my hands on a non-cutaway deep bowl. I'll keep you all...uh...posted. ;) |
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Location: Scotland | Snowlock, Taylor make a lot of great looking, great playing guitars, but their sound wouldn't make me part with any cash, despite the slick ads. One of their best-sounding guitars, The Dan Crary model, has been out of production for years. As for top options, Ovation have been using some wierd & wonderful species of wood on the collectors editions for the last several years (Walnut, Bubinga, Redwood) though occasionally letting the team down by using laminates
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Yeah, I'm with you on that. Taylor definately showers themselves words and ads that often make themselves appear classy and brilliant.
Out of Ovation, Taylor, and Martin, I think Taylor makes the most classy and beautiful looking guitars.
Sound and consistancy is where Ovation hooks me.
As far as appearance, Ovation does hold quite an edge over Martin though. I think Martin makes some of the most plain, awkward-looking guitars ever. (not all of them, but many...I guess they're just not in the game for making the guitars look pretty. I think they need a new appearance artist or whatever...)
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Scotland | Martin are iconic, they virtually designed & defined the modern steel-string guitar & their high-end trad stuff is great, though IMHO Santa Cruz & Collings are significantly better. I think where Martin have really lost the plot is their half-assed attempts to produce an affordable USA-made guitar that says "Martin" on the headstock. All they've they've achieved is to produce cheap Martin guitars that don't sound as good as plywood Korean guitars which cost half the price. You really are paying a premium for a headstock logo. Their formica, sorry, "high-pressure laminate" guitars are atrocious. The latest version has an aluminium top on formica back and sides. I tried one in Mandolin Brothers, it was absolutely laughable. Old CF must be spinning in his grave.
[ September 15, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | GENTLEMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's what you need to do.
As part of the factory tour there needs to be a round table discussion with the president of Kaman Music and whoever else he wants there to get these ideas across to him. All of you are right, the Ovation ads don't cut it. Frankly all their marketing efforts fall waaaay short. (Just my opinion but Hey, what do I know!?)
This round table needs to be the serious side of the fun filled weekend. Have just a few people there and let them speak for all the members of the OFC. Get the points across and try to get some answers. To make this work will take alot of preparation but could prove to be very fruitful. Maybe this needs to be the day before, or after.
For what it's worth. There are 570+ voices here, need to organize them a bit to make them heard and then go make them heard in CT! |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i agree bill. the ofc members at the round table would serve the group best by voicing some of our collective opinions. a good idea might be a survey with lots of 10 scale questions so ofc could present simple answers to ovation; ie customer service average rating 9.2 advertising average rating 3.3 etc. also a suggestion box where each member would have the opportunity in say 100 words or less to present their personal ideas on how to improve the product, customer relations, image etc. the interested users would hace a collective voice and much more impact than the fun filled threads here. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Hey, guys. I got the Custom Balladeer yesterday.
Opening up the case, I had no clue what to expect. Elderly's pics of the guitar made the color look very orange and flat, and there seemed to be a good about of cosmetic defects. I was okay with that, cause I wanted a deep, no c/a, and this was nice enough.
However, opening the case, I was amazed at how beautiful it looked. The paint job was dark and rich, the wide pearloid rosette is great too.
I guess the overall quality of the pics was just bad, with lots of dullness and reflections looking like scratches.
The guitar looks and sounds amazing.
I cant believe how absolutely different it sounds from the elite t (which has its own unique sound). Totally different. Big, bell-like, ringing response--I dont have to struggle for any response from any string. I strum half as hard now to get the same response, and that also gives me the ablility to get even louder and get more dynamic changes in. Also, the frets seem quite smaller. It makes it much easier for me to move along.
Now for a few concerns/other things. Under the treble side of the bride, there's been a little repair work done, seemingly due to the bridge lifting on that side. It seems very professionally done, but I just hope that I dont have trouble with a lifting bridge. What are the chances of that happening now that its been repaired?
Also, theres a warp in the top from about 3 inches below the bass side of the bridge, up towards the strap peg. It's warped in a line and not noticible except when moving it the light, and even then isn't very noticible. Any thoughts on this? Could this eventually cause major trouble?
***UPDATE: I noticed the opposite side has a very similar "warp." It's on the out side of the two parallel braces. I guess thats maybe just a natural reaction the wood has to the tension. They're not very profound "warps" anyway.***
Action is a tad too low, but very close. I think I'll be able to use some of Oldan's tortoise for a little shimmage. :)
Anyway, great guitar--beautiful sounding and looking! Just the type of big Ovation sound I like. Yehaw...
[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Tom
Acoustic guitars are never perfect after some years of existance, don't worry about minor imperfections, play it and watch the things that you are concerned about but keep in mind that it took years for them to show up and you might find that changes in their status will take many more years like watching the hour hand on your watch, as an example, as the years go by you might find that you're abs aren't up to the high school standard, but your mature brain will compensate. The time to worry, at least for me, is when the brain and the abs sag, but even then my old guitars are still hanging in there with their little changes due to age, they're still in much better shape than I am.
Bailey |
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Location: Pennsylvania | Bailey,
Thanks. I thought that was probably the verdict. The little "warps" are perfectly parallel with the two side braces, so that seems natural that there would be a slight warp there.
It's all just part of the guitar, and its a guitar that looks and sounds great. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | I want to tighten the preamp screws and stuff inside to make sure everything is soundly tightened, and I'm not sure where they all are. I've located one on the preamp, but it seems unreachable with a screwdriver. Hmmm. I hate working thru the soundhole. I like the backdoor entries of the multiholes--I feel like I'm working blind inside these centerholes.... |
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Location: NJ | I've always found that an old compact makeup mirror (laying inside the bowl) and a mini MagLite (held in the mouth, if neccesary) works wonders. |
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Location: Scotland | Tom, you'll need to get a tiny allen wrench & loosen the allen bolt on the volume knob. The entire preamp is held in place by a single nut which you'll see once the vol knob is off. You can then remove the preamp for any servicing. Remember to remove the battery holder also.
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Location: Pennsylvania | Thanks. I figured that tiny allen bolt may have been a better place to start. I'm going to attemt that tonight.
The other night I was attempting to work on the guitar with only 3 or 4 hrs of sleep, and was just driving myself absolutely crazy. I was working franticly, half-asleep... My biggest problem was that I couldn't get the battery holder back on with that darn "key-bolt thing" it has, and kept dropping everything... |
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Location: Pennsylvania | (I took the vol knob off, but the slider knobs are still holding the top of the preamp on. I know where the nut is, because I can feel where it is inside the guitar, but I cant get to it without taking the preamp faceplate off. Sorry for my electronics ignorance.)
Anyway, I shimmed up the saddle just .30 higher than before, but now the saddle sits slightly out of it's slot/canal on the bridge, causing the saddle to lean slightly forward. Can I away with it like that, or should I lower it? Thanks.
[ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Tom, I mislead you, I thought it had an early shoulder-mounted pre rather than a FET3. Once you have the vol control off gently pull off the slider-knobs, remove the 4 tiny dome-head screws in each corner of the faceplate and remove the faceplate. You'll then see 4 countersunk crosshead machine bolts. These hold the pre onto a moulding attached to the bowl. Loosen these & you can take out the entire pre.
The saddle should be seated squarely in it's slot and should not lean forwards.
Paul |
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advice on trading that Elite for a Balladeer Custom