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| I've been surfing the web for the best prices, and Music123.com seems to have the best prices. Zzounds.com prices are good also. Have anyone purchased anything from these two sites? How's the service there?
[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: cs257p ]
[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: cs257p ] |
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Location: Tennessee | I bought my Line 6 Flextone II XL from music123.com. Service was great, prices were the best I could find. Unit shipped within one day of ordering. I had no problems at all. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I have used Zzounds... prices were great, didn't need any service... Just ordered and the stuff showed up. |
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Location: NJ | one of the main reasons for the mom and pop stores demise.
So often people shop price then have a problem and go to the local store for help and they get poor service.
Remember you get what you pay for |
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Location: Tennessee | Point taken, Alpep. But situations also drive our purchasing decisions. After finally deciding on the Flextone, I went to the local Mom & Pops, but none of them carried it. Guitar Center had it, but I didn't feel like putting an extra $250 of my money into their hands. If it was my local M&P?? I just might have.
I still make regular trips to the local music store, and have made a lot more purchases there than I have online. However, the local store is not always the answer to all of my needs. |
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Location: Scotland | This argument is full of paradoxes. The local stores can't get the cool gear because they don't have the buying power. The gear they can get they can't afford to discount. The big stores have everything at knockdown prices but the staff know jack shit & if you have an aftersales problem they don't want to know. You pays your money & takes your choice. The sad fact is when somebody buys an instrument mail-order from a faceless box-shifter & it screws-up, they take it to the corner store to get fixed. They then think the corner store owner has a 'tude because they wont help. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | we all long for the good old days when it comes to service and quality of the product. but with some guitar makers offering more models today than all of the guitar makers put together back in the 50's, there isn't enough room for even the biggest brick and mortar stores to carry every guitar let alone the myriad of stuff invented for them in the last 30-40 years. it would take a pretty incredible mom and pop team to even keep up with all of the information let alone sell and service the merchandise.
we have also become a price conscious society who wants instant gratification. when mom and pop say we can have it in two weeks for $879 and 123 can overnight it for $629 ANYONE is going to notice the difference. odds are they will go the 629 route and get a thingamabob, a photoblatz and a couple of boxes of strings for the difference. everyone likes to talk about a good deal. but "oh you got your adamas for $1900? hell, i paid $2600 to that nice mom and pop 'cause they always let me bring my dog in the store" wont usually get you any points in today's crowd. that part only will get you satisfaction looking in the mirror if your wallet is bursting. since mom and pop usually have such shitty buying power due to low volume, if you feel guilty, give them what you saved and it will probably be almost as good as their profit. then they will really think you are a great human being.
imho the real specialists ie luthiers, repair/setup shops, sales of pretty specific stuff like alpep, electronics whizzes like you paul t, and deserving golf bums like cwkII will make out, and the well run big stores with a huge selection and unbeatable prices will knock out the mom and pops. it is unfortunate, but it is a pervasive reality of modern life dictated by us. how many of you will consistantly pay 10% more for gasoline because the local station has been there since you owned your first car? it just hits us ofc members harder when "we be gettin 'motional bout our axes". |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Right on Russ
One thing we can do, but it isn't much, is buy our strings, picks, effects, mikes, amps, straps, stands, keyboards, cables, etc. locally. On these items a little premium in the price won't break us and it might keep the local guy alive. Maybe these items are where he can compete, you can't try out an amp or effect in a catalog, and a good local will maybe let you try out or rent that amp you can't afford for that break thru gig. Maybe that makes up for the guitar problem you have pointed out.
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | Well after selling instruments as a sideline for over 20 years now it is my fulltime gig ans I understand why I never made it my fulltime gig for all those years. It is difficult. through the years I got the reputation of having the strangest stuff on earth and many people contact me when they get something strange or need wierd parts etc.
The local stores that have survived make it on lessons and impluse student sales they are not moving out instruments like they used to. Most people go between samash and GC that are in the same mall and beat them down for the lowest price of course if you have to order something it does not work but for instock stuff you can do it. so they do not stock tons of cool stuff but tons of mid line stuff. the mom and pop cannot compete on the mid line and cheap stuff.
So now with e bay the person does not try to trade in but sells independently gets more cash than the store would give in a trade in and is now a "dealer". so the mom and pop cannot even make it on a trade in. So you get people like me that specialize in a niche trying to make it or just get lucky through years of connections.
Many of my friends ask me why I don't open a retail store the reason is the committment that you need to put into it and that it is another expense that I really don't need. It wouild be foolish for me to compete with samash and GC, Marzz tried and failed ... |
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Location: Pensacola,FL | I agree with Al, selling instruments is not an easy task. For "my" 2 cents worth, I shop the local Mom & Pop for most of my extras (also they are the ONLY place in town where I can find quality "used stuff" as well). And I can trully say that the owner of this small shop is a friend
of mine (even though we don't see each other "socially") he always remembers me, asks how things are and what I need/want. The relaxed atmosphere in his store is worth more to me than a few bucks, hell I get irritated just thinking about going into one of the "Super guitar stores" let alone actually going there, their "staff" remind me of "fast food employees"...eh, want fries wit dat? :mad: .
While it's true I buy and sell on eBay, I have also taken some of my "creations" to the Mom & Pop store for them to sell and share in profit. My way of saying "Thanks for being here".
Oldan |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | for allot of us there isn't a big music center in our neck of the woods. the internet has become the "big mall" for us. it has also helped start up allot of mom and pop cyber shops. an extra bedroom, a few good niche products and voila------you are in business. string this is a good example. almost all of their business is strings in bulk. they even beat the big guys. they are never going to become a russell 2000 company, but they can keep a family in bisquits and gravy.
this whole concept of internet commerce is so new it will take awhile to see how it changes us. we all shop the worlds biggest 24 hour garage sale/auction and i'll dare say most of us will continue to be a part of internet commerce. it's not bad, it's just part of the constant evolution of how we do business.
'scuse me while i check what's new in the ofc "sell/trade" guitar store. |
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| par·a·dox Pronunciation Key (pr-dks)
n.
1. A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.
2. One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: “The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears” (Mary Shelley).
3. An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.
4. A statement contrary to received opinion.
--- A big company using their buying power to destroy their competition is not a paradox, that's capitalism.
--- A person who buys an instrument from a "faceless" dealer and asks a local small shop to fix it should become that shops' new customer.
--- Some people will always make price the number one issue. The smart ones know it's customer service.
--- I have 4 guitars, 2 big chain (small shops had poor customer service) 1 small shop (great customer service), 1 etailer (no one else had it). |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Some great thoughts and remarks, it makes this board great.
The net IS today's marketplace, but you still need that human touch in your chosen community. Al has become local to us and we probably will go to him for an instrument that we could never get locally, where I live I don't know where I could see an Ovation other than a Celebrity. But the list of things I suggested we buy locally was made by looking at what I or my son have bought from our local store, run by an ex musician who does sound for local productions etc. and is just as poor as the rest of us musicians. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I don't know if the net is THE marketplace, but I must say, that I go to a store as the last resort. I get so dissapointed at not being able to comparison shop. Not necessarily for price, although that is a factor in most comparisons, but for anything. Pet stores carry the brand(s) of food they carry, if they are out of what you usually get, it is not fun reading package after package when I could have just click clicked and it been sitting at my door the next morning. Musical stuff is worse. One store carries Fender, but only certain models cause the store down the street (30 minutes in traffic) carries the others. Boss pedals are not sold in stores with Ibanez pedals (example only). And it goes on and on.
Things I have bought or sold on the internet, and a regular basis when appropriate in the last couple of years.
- Pet food and supplies
- Order Pizza and Chinese food for delivery
- Order Percriptions for pickup
- 2 Cars bought
- 1 other car sold
- Numerous guitars and music stuff both bought and sold.
- Bought Furnature
- Most presents bought online (jewelry, flowers, etc..)
- Most clothes except suits.
The only reason I go to a store, is if I know something is there to demo or look at, or if it's convienient. The only stores I really frequent are of course grocery stores, and if I get lazy.. they deliver. Also hardware stores, and that's because of their proximity to each other for comparison. They do not carry the same lines of tools but comparison is easy because Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart are within 1/2 mile of each other. There is a local hdw store close to my house. Also in the same 1/2 mile is Best Buy, Staples, OfficeDepot, Circuit City, Radio Shack and a Mall for my electronic and gadget fixes.
Notice I didn't mention any "local ma pa" stores... Frankly I don't know how they stay in buisness. 99% of what I buy does not need service, or I do the service myself. Paying in some cases almost twice the price of an item for a smile at the register... just isn't worth it.
My motorcycle is the exception. I will buy parts and chrome whereever, but only one bike shop, which is about an hour away, will ever work on my bike(s). That is a saftey/confidence issue more than customer support. |
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Location: NJ | Miles
you are more computer oriented than the average person, BUT I know of one guitar that would be in your hands right now if you went to the store to pick it up |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | customer service can mean allot of things. anything from keeping your water glass full to remembering your name could be considered customer service. some of it is nothing more than sugar coated bullshit to justify a higher price. if paying $60 for a $10 steak blows your hair back, then by all means chew and smile and then leave a tip on top of that $60 for the customer service.
for me, since i have usually made up my mind regarding what i want and am not asking for professional advice (advice from someone trying to sell you something is often biased toward what is in stock or has the best margin), good customer service is having what i want at a good price. i dont like to spend allot of time running around trying to find "it", and it is often used, or vintage. i'm not sure what additional value in terms of customer service i would get if i paid considerably more than "a good price" for something i bought from a friendly guy with 60's business mentality.
so when it comes to musical instruments and related gear, what outside of a warranty, which is already built into the price, is customer service? |
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Location: NJ | Back in the day I wanted an electric guitar. My dad went to the local music store the owner told him that if he bought a good amp he would be able to sell it for my dad if I decided not to play. He told him that it was difficult for him to sell used guitars. My dad came home with a "marvel" MIJ POS guitar with a black panel fender princeton reverb ( yes it was that long ago and both were new) I still have the amp.
As a vendor of vintage instruments I can tell you what you can expect from me if you buy something. I have a stockpile of parts and MANY connections in the vintage business. If I don't have it I probably can make a half a dozen phone calls and get the part or a replacement for you. You can also be assured that I will not misrepresent something or if I do not have knowledge about something I can probably answer your questions with a few e mails or phone calls. Try to get the kid working at GC at 5.25hr to do that for you. Or the pawn shop you bought something from that comes to you damaged from e bay.
BTW I am not perfect I have had deals gone bad. But it is less than 1% of my overall customers.
there is no easy answer here. I too shop price and when I need something fixed I expect to pay a premium for that. Unfortunately in this disposable society where the majority of products are built for planned obsolessence (sp), many take the attitude that Miles gave re disposible items but if you notice something "special" in his life such as his motorcyle he goes to a reliable shop that he has established a realationship. I sell tons of stuff over the net and via mailorder but I do not sell new items but hard to find items and items that you may not be able to go into a store and be able to choose between several.
I guess it is all relative. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | you are a specialist al, and take pride in having or finding answers. this site is evidence of that. you have rare and collectable merchandise. imho you have a good formula. many small stores dont specialize enough and often can't afford to stock much of a diverse inventory. and except for their used stuff which is sold as is in most cases a customer is covered by the factory warranty on the new stuff.
here is a recent experience i had at guitar center. i bought a used digitech gt-3 from them for $40. it worked in the store and was sold as is-no refund. the 9v converter had a short in the jack end which i discovered when i got home. i went back and asked if they had any used converters they could sell me before i hit the good will store. the 5.25 an hour kid got the manager who without hesitation grabbed a new 29.95 converter off the shelf and handed it to me apologising for any inconvenience. NO CHARGE!
the mom and pop probably wouldn't have had the used gt-3 and probably not the converter either, and could hardly afford to do what gc did, with the original giveaway price and follow up to make the customer happy. i also find allot of the kids working in places like guitar center to be starving musicians of one sort or another and more than a few have played with the toys at their disposal. i suspect many take advantage of the employee discount. i have gotten some pretty good help from some of them. i find if i ask the manager to direct me to an employee who really knows their stuff i get adequate help.
the small shops like the one i used to go to in santa fe (one of my clients) don't seem to be immune to incompetent help either. last summer i waited for about 15 minutes for a kid to look up the price for a dozen tortex picks and i finally took a dozen from the loose bin for .25 each. the small stores can't afford expensive competent labor and it doesn't fit the formula for big stores. the end result seems to be the same. minimum wage will not get you a rocket scientist. you are lucky to get someone who will even show up. BUT there is always the boss to talk to if you aren't getting anywhere. |
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Location: Scotland | The box-shifters, guitar centres, Sam's Ass, MF & their counterpart operations in the UK & Europe, are in reality, probably keeping the global intrument retail business alive. However that doesn't mean we can't bitch about their piss-poor product knowledge, shitty attitude & non-existant after-sales service. If you know what you want & have the skill & experience to maintain equipment you can buy from anywhere. The only goal of the big chains is to move inventory, they don't care whether the customer wants or needs it, & they will lie through their teeth to get their sales commission. There are some dealers who can compete on price, give good after-sales service & smile while while they relieve you of your wedge, they're just a little harder to find.
[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "BUT I know of one guitar that would be in your hands right now if you went to the store to pick it up"
Very very true possibility, but... I wouldn't know about it without the internet... and I don't consider an 8 hour drive local. |
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Location: NJ | Miles
I guess I should have said you are just plain lazy and are into the impulse instant gratification that the web avails. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Now THAT I will agree with Al. I have little or NO patience for poor service in person and any good service is nearly non-exisitant. I guess in a way, that is why I have held on to the "Rich" deal so long. It doesn't really take any of my time. A phone call, or an email... I was at NAMM anyway, and that visit was entertaining... so at the deal I am getting... who cares how long they take. It's really kindof interesting to hear the "next story" as it comes up with each call. I have camped out at stores making them stay open way past closing to finish things for me. It's not pretty, and it's bad for my bloodpressure... so I avoid it.
What's that saying... "I love mankind, it's people I can't stand" |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Miles
I think we earn the right not to put up with annoying things as we "mature". If we can't find better ways to do things, then we haven't learned anything in this time wasting thing that is life. I still kick myself every time I, as a retired person, go to the bank drive through on Friday for any reason when I don't have a paycheck to cash like those hordes of people ahead of me in line, but occasionly I do it. I did it last Friday with a $9.00 check my wife earned on jury duty that she had signed. First the voice of authority notified me that our account number wasn't on the check and sent it back, I didn't have the account # so I sent her my bank Visa card, she called back and said I needed a picture id so I sent my driver's license, then she called and said "is your wife there with you?" I said "no", She said "I need your signature" and sent me back the check, keeping my bank card and driver's license, I didn't have a pen in my car so the fuse blew, I peeled out of the drive thru to the front, stormed in, slammed the carrier on the counter, shouted "what in Hell is going on here, are you thinking I'm stealing $9 from this bank that I've had an account with for 20 years" the idiot brought me the $9, made me sign the back of the check and gave me back my Visa card and driver's license, and said "these are the bank's rules, have a nice day" to which I shouted "I had one started, but you ruined it". Who won, she did, the rest of the day she will brag about how she showed that old asshole, me, who was boss at a bank, the idiot who tries to cash a $9 check on Friday or the employee that their excessive charges are paying for. Makes the Net look good.
Bailey |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | WOW... WHAT A GREAT RANT. I've been selling to "independent" garden centers for a number of years. The big box stores (Wal-Mart, Home Depot) are looked upon as the death of the "independent".
The independents that are making it... Have service and things that you can't find at the mass merchant. They don't try to compete. They work hard to know the customer. (very important)
Think of all the catalogs and the cheep prices that they compete with. My local mom & pop guitar place is / was a turn off the first time I walked in. I don't trade there because of his attitude. I have a great guitar repair shop that doesn't sell guitars that I spend my saved GC / ebay money. This is a great board.
Woz |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Thanks Woz
I neglected to mention that when I started banking at the bank it was a locally owned bank where the tellers would say "how's it goin' Bailey, how's Shirley?" etc.. It has been sold twice to national conglomerates and is now Wells Fargo (They really don't own that stagecoach that they show all the time, they rob it). At each transfer we have had to go to great lengths to keep any perks we had earned, and the possible charges have increased exponentially. We can't leave because of those same perks, the Paradox mentioned above. Another demise of a local enterprise.
Bailey :( |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hey Bailey... for a minute I thought we lived in the same town... Same ting happened to my bank.. and unfortunatly.. the services changed along with the service so after a very unpleasant night in Korea, and then another awkward moment in Germany (because the NEW bank didn't have 24/7 psople)... I switched banks. Now I do about 99% of my banking online too.
I did an experiment last night... I went looking for a GPS. I only found one store that actually had ANY stock, but not the model I was looking for. Their "sale" price was $200 higher than the interenet price. Oh well... I tried. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I think we are all on to something here, we just need to figure out how to make sure we have reliable security. But that sure applies to banking outside the net also.
Bailey |
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Location: Canada | I just wanted to mention that shopping online must be great if you arent from like say Canada, where we CAN buy online as well BUT all the good sights appear to be American.Even if we do order products from the states there is; duty to pay,taxes(ours and sometimes theirs).Lets not forget the exchange,that means we have to cough up the difference(Canadian Peso).Sigh.... Tracey. |
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| There's a way to get around paying duty/taxes. Get the store you purchased from to send the item as a gift. Also, under what circumstances do we have to pay their taxes? |
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Location: NJ | if you lie on the forms and the item gets damaged you are SOL. Best is to pay the taxes and be done with it once you do the gift thing it can get you in trouble. personally I will not jeopardize my business to save someone a couple of bucks that can cause big problems in the end |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I love paying taxes, I wish there were more ways to give our government my money so they can pay all those wonderful congressmen and women what they so roundly deserve. Therefore I would strongly object to the idea of someone in the states buying for you in Canada and sending you the object like someone did for a friend of mine in Texas who needed a computer. If I knew the name of that person I would turn them in to the Texas authorities. This criminal in the states would obviously have to represent you in any warranty problems. Again, avoiding taxes is a terrible crime and undermines the strength of nations.
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | I hate taxes too unfortunately they exist. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Yes Al
And the IRS considers it a crime to promote the avoidance of the taxes I love so well. I'm sure they are surfing the net looking for the scum that would do such a thing. |
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Music 123, Zzounds