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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I saw Shania Twain tonight on a CMT In Concert show holding what looked like a new Viper 12 string on a duet with Elton John. I didn't watch the whole show so I don't know if she played it at any time, but she definately held it for all to see. Na Na Na to those who complain that no modern star is playing Ovation (or holding at least).
Bailey :p |
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| We built the EA68 she was playing a few years ago.She played it on the come on over tour.I think it was 1999. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | It looked like a nice guitar, was there anything special or custom about it?
Bailey |
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| If my memory is correct,the only thing custom was the color.And the painted eppies.The specs.were the same as an off the shelf EA68. |
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| sorry EA58 NOT EA68.!!! |
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| If memory serves me about five years ago I saw her playing the Adamas 12 string (SMT I think). It was the wine red colored one like I have in the six string. |
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Location: Scotland | Give me a break, an endorsement, official or otherwise, from the likes of Shania Twain may be great for the public profile of the instruments but is somewhat lacking in credibility. It may be worth shouting about when it's an artist who has more to offer than big hair, a pair of tits & the ability to sing accurately only with the aid of Antares Auto-tune. What's the deal with the Leopard-skin fur coat in the desert? Is she stupid as well as talentless? She don't impress me much.
[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | ... well there goes my mention of seeing Shakira at the MTV latin music awards with a Ovation Legend... :o |
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Location: SoCal | I, personally, like the tits. |
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Location: NJ | on the viper? or shakira? |
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Location: SoCal | Shakira or Shania. I'm not fussy. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I suspected when I started this thread that it would evolve into an intellectual discussion of the merits of lady virtuosos playing Ovation 12 strings. I'm suprised that the significance of the G string has not been given sufficient recognition. Thank goodness for the ability of our board to see beyond a veneer of sexuality that Shania uses to hide her musical virtuosity and preserve her femininity. Personally, I never thought she had much in the way of tits.
Anonymous
PS I've written some interesting limericks about this subject. |
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Location: SoCal | Bailey:
I am glad you brought us back to a level of respectiblity on this board and got out minds out of the gutter.
As to G strings, somebody once said "There's nothing worse than a flat G string. And on a 12 strings you can have two of them."
Simple, yet both profound and profane at the same time. |
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Location: Seattle | As I recall, that Shania Twain tour also featured 2 Ovation mandolins that were being played quite well and often and were way up front in the mix. I was impressed and it made me want to go find one and test drive it.
Mr.Templeman, I have to say that your posts frequently reflect the attitude of what I can only describe as an overly opinionated and agitated old woman. A little more positive outlook might help make this site seem more like the Ovation fan club and less like an ovulation bitchathon, in which case you might enjoy more participation from the 600 plus members instead of the same 10.
Just a thought.
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Location: Scotland | As I've said on a number of occasions, opinions are like assholes, everbody has one. If you don't like my opinions I'm OK with that, thats your prerogative, & I won't lose any sleep over it.
The other point about opinions is that they are meaningless unless they are backed up by knowledge & experience. I base mine on 25 years of music industry experience at a professional level.
You know nothing about me other than what you of read in these posts, many of which, including my spat at Shania were intended to be (slightly)tongue-in-cheek. Your opinion of me is worthless as you have little evidence to support it. I would suggest you get down off your high horse & play nice.
As for having a more positive attitude, I do not recall ever having posted anything particularly negative, apart from the odd swipe at "Hat Acts" or others which "IN MY OPINION" are a bit crap.
[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Seattle | Typically stated Mr. Templeman, illustrates my point very nicely.
I too have worked in the music industry as a professional(for 31 years) so...according to your celebrated "estimated value of opinions" theory... it must be that my opinion is worth more than yours.
Sonny |
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Location: Scotland | I will not be drawn into childish point-scoring with you, or anyone else. If you don't like my posts or my opinions you have the choice not to read them. |
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Location: SoCal | Sonny:
You're taking this entirely too seriously. It should be possible to disagree without getting personal. If you want to get personal, go into politics.
Paul T. can be abrupt and opinionated. But he's helped out more people here than you and has been a major asset. To most of us, he's a friend. Which is something I can't say about you.
Now, can we get back to talking about tits and g strings? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well I'm not going to join the bickering, but back on thread.. (sortof).. I too would like to see Ovations in the hands of "guitarists." I think any exposure of course is good... but there is a bit of credability added when the person isn't just someone who plays the guitar (no matter how well) but is actually KNOWN for playing the guitar. Melissa Ethridge is KNOWN as a singer (although she's a fine picker).. Shania, Bolton, and several others are fine players, but are singers, songwriters and entertainers. To be more blunt.. Seeing Jon Bon Jovi playing an Ovation... meaningless... seeing Sambora with the Ovation... credible. Both are fine guitar players.... but one actually is KNOWN for being a guitar player.
I think that may have been the point Paul was trying to make... but if not, it's certainly my point.
[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Ovation ] |
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Location: Scotland | Yep, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. |
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| Regardless what you all think,gone are the days when you could turn on any music tv station and see every third viedo with an ovation in it.And the lack of exposure by a guitarst or singer has certinly hurt. So I say that any exposure now is better than nothing. Who knows her or anyone seen with one may just inspire a few more young players go with a round back and keep the Ovation dream alive.After all if Ovation fails then I guess we all become Taylor Fans? I for one for the past 38 yrs have been a fan from the first Glenn C. show. Was he a Guitar player or singer ......Did it really matter ? He Was the First endorsee. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I must apologize, I meant to say in my post "I never thought she had much in the way of titian tresses" but my computer seemed to have messed up and given the sentence an entirely different meaning. I'm sorry Shania that I caused you to rip open your blouse on national TV, stick out your tongue and say "Take that you OFC *&#$%@!ers" (that last word being Canadian which I don't speak or write so it is just an approximation). I hope you all caught it as it's the first time we have gotten international recognition.
Sonny
You are as welcome as anybody to express any opinion that you like, and all of us will agree or disagree politely, but the general thing here is not to attack anyone personally for their opinion. If there are close to 700 members, there are close to 700 opinions, and if we start calling names to each that has a different opinion than we will degenerate into a name calling society. Paul (any Paul) having an opinion in no way interferes with your having an opinion, and if you think that you can judge what is a correct opinion, change your name to God and start the board of all boards. But then watch out that the real Guy up there doesn't disagree with YOUR opinions. However, your 31 years of experience should make your opinions about instruments and music welcome to all of us in my opinion.
I would sign this but I'm not sure Shania isn't looking for the person previously known as Bailey since she started that song "I'm Going to Get You Good".
[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ]
[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: Seattle | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
Well I'm not going to join the bickering, but back on thread.. (sortof).. I too would like to see Ovations in the hands of "guitarists." I think any exposure of course is good... but there is a bit of credability added when the person isn't just someone who plays the guitar (no matter how well) but is actually KNOWN for playing the guitar. Melissa Ethridge is KNOWN as a singer (although she's a fine picker).. Shania, Bolton, and several others are fine players, but are singers, songwriters and entertainers. To be more blunt.. Seeing Jon Bon Jovi playing an Ovation... meaningless... seeing Sambora with the Ovation... credible. Both are fine guitar players.... but one actually is KNOWN for being a guitar player.
I think that may have been the point Paul was trying to make... but if not, it's certainly my point.
[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Ovation ] |
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Location: Seattle | This point makes sense, however, if you look back on some previous PT posts, he was extremely critical of the value of Ovation in the hands of extremely accomplished "guitarists" such as Steve Lukather, and Lenny Kravitz, his logic being that they were not known as "acoustic" players, and even a well known acoustic player who is very associated w/ Ovation, Melissa Etheridge, did not meet his standards. This struck me as being critical for the sake of being critical. I for one was impressed by the Lukather endorsement if not the actual ad and felt it was a nice feather in Ovation's cap. I am also a fan of Lenny and Melissa and pay close attention to what they play, acoustic or electric.
The slam on Shania begged for a response. Is it fair to imply that she is stupid and untalented... but unfair for me to imply that PT is a crotchity old woman? C'mon guys, a little thin skinned are we? Dish but can't take? If you are going to use this forum for outgoing slams, be prepaired for incoming.
By the way PT, the services you render in this this forum in the way of insightful product knowledge are extremely valuable and appreciated.
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Location: Scotland | Get your facts right. I have never ever passed comment on Melissa Etheridge,until now, and for what my opinion is worth I beleive she is an artist of some considerable talent & integrity and a valuble endorsee. Her music doesn't particularly excite me, though that does not in any way diminish it's validity.
I did not critisise either Luthaker or Kravitz, again both are very succesful & talented musicians. To take my comments in context; Several board members, including myself, were concerned that Ovation’s current marketing concentrates on the electro-acoustic performance of the guitars and ignores the fact that they are good acoustic instruments first. My point was that using musicians who are known primarily as electric players reinforces this perception and gives the likes of Taylor and the rest an advantage. Taylor guitars, rightly or wrongly are seen as great acoustic instruments which can be amplified. Ovations are seen as electro-acoustics, period. Many of us feel this is wrong, and an endorsee program of players known primarily as acoustic guitarists would help.
My comments about Shania Twain were probably a little unfair, but having said that I'd rather stick pins in my eyeballs than listen to her music.
[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As it's worth repeating... ANY artist with an Ovation is good :) But yes, an artist of the same focus as the instrument is intended is even better. I think Lenny Kravitz is great, but I don't see him as an "acoustic" musician and although it's cool he's played Ovations, it doesn't really put much weight into "I'll get one because Lenny plays one" whereas if I knew he played exclusively a particular year/config flying-V, I would be inclined to listen.
There are MANY acts now, especially now that men are also filling out the once almost exlusive female "poet" music club. Rather than some punk-rocker who only "inside" people will ever see play an Acoustic... I'd rather see the likes of Dave Mathews or Sting or some of the newer acts I don't know the names of, but see on MTV. They are good guitarists, and play ACOUSTIC guitars primarily.
I guess my point is (and I could have avoided all of the confusing text above).. Is that I'd like to see Acoustic musicians who occationally plug in playing Ovations more in public and endorcing them, then ELECTRIC players who occationally unplug. |
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Location: NJ | I agree with you wholeheartedly, Miles.
Ideally, I'd LOVE to see these guitars in the hands of those like Dave Matthews, John Mayer (although if Matthews played one, Mayer would be right behind him!), David Gray, Sting, James Taylor, Duncan Sheik, Willy Porter, Ian Anderson (whom I just heard was in Nazareth working on a signature Martin), Bare Naked Ladies, Jars of Clay, Peter Case, Tantric, Peter Mulvey, Freedy Johnston, and more. This type of exposure would give the guitars the credibility they deserve as acoustic guitars as opposed to the ancillary guitar the the roadie carts out onto the stage for the occasional obligatory "power ballad".
And like Paul, I have the utmost respect for Melissa (not necessarily for her music, but for her "O'loyalty"). I'm just a bit "peeved" that Ovation's constant cramming of Ms. E down our throats gives the company the analogy of being a "one horse town". Look on Ovation's page and 5 out of 6 "news" items have to do w/her (and those in fact are not very "recent"). Mr. Lukather I'm not overly familiar with, but I would assume he's no "slouch" either. But I feel the message would be better conveyed if perhaps he was portrayed playing the guitar in the studio (or a "live - concert" shot of him on a stool) as opposed to that condescending sneer of a portrayal in the mandatory "power chord" pose bedecked in tattoo nirvana and sporting more chain than a Harley Softail. This type of marketing MAY sell a few Celebrities to those who want an inexpensive acoustic to dress up their "stage image" and have for the occasional C/G Heavy Metal ballad, (which seems to be the marketing posture that Ovation continues to take) but someone who wants a "serious" acoustic guitar is not even gonna think twice about.
- You'll have to excuse me, but I believe I've beaten this horse before! |
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Location: SoCal | All of this (and we've been here before on many occassions), begs the question, is Ovation making any effort to go out the artists known for playing acoustic guitar and asking them, what do you want from a guitar? Can we work together to build you an instrument that you can use, not just on stage but in the studio? My guess is that they are not doing that anymore, but I'd like to think I'm wrong. |
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Location: NJ | Paul;
I think (and I may be wrong & hope I am) that the only person (other than Etheridge) that would fit into that category would be Al DiMeola. While an absolutely brilliant guitarist, his fanbase is a bit finite and esoteric.
Now....if ONLY we could get Shania to do a Playboy spread with an Elite or an Adamas as a "prop", we'd be in "bid'ness"!! |
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Location: SoCal | The only other major talent I can think of who plays an Ovation is Preston Reed. And I don't want to see him in a Playboy laywout, with or without an Ovation. |
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Location: NJ | one word: Survivor |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Wasn't somebody supposed to follow up on that "Survivor" thing? Another opportunity down the drain?
I'm kind of out of touch with modern music, are there any guitar lead players, acoustic or electric, in the style of a Glen Campbell or Chet Atkins, or is it all blues and rock licks? Seriously, who would be the person that would make an Ovation acoustic stand out if they could be talked into playing one? I can only think of one or two in country that would sound good acoustically outside of bluegrass.
Bailey :p |
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Location: coral springs florida | To Paul
Please, if you're going to use the "opinions are like assholes " thing, finish it right. The whole thing goes like this; Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and everyone else's stink but your own! |
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Location: Scotland | Thanks for the correction. I'll remember to use that in future.
Bailey
Players in the style of Chet; Tommy Emmanuel, Thom Bresh, Buster Jones just for a start. Bresh is Merle Travis's son and is yet another guitarist with monster chops who used to be an Ovation player and isn't now. There's any number of amazing musicians/songwriters in all styles who are primarily acoustic players.
Paul
[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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| In terms of modern (well, in this case, post modern) guitarists playing ovations; Billy Corgan of the former band 'The Smashing Pumpkins' used to play a standard balladeer. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Awe, shucks, guys...none of ya like Melissa!? The girl deserves some real credit, and she can kick some ass on her 12 string! Ya may not like her hits, but she's got some really awesome strummin' chops, meaty vocals, and honest songs-especially in the early days of her career.
She just toured last year solo, with no band, and compelled sold out audiences for a full 2 hour shows with just her guitar! That's impressive! Not many can do that!
I credit her '89 debut album as my inspiration to switch to acoustic (back in '89), and specifically ovations. Her bitchin' right hand technique sent me to the woodshed many a time!
Frankly, I'm pleased she's an Ovation endorser because I think she's a damn good musician and songwriter. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | One item of note about Al dimiola is that he really never uses his Ovations on stage.I have seen him in concert and seen some videos of him on stage.He never uses his Ovations.Maybe he uses them for recordings.Whenever there is an article about him they always talk about and show pictures of all his other instrument exept his Ovations..Has anyone ever seen Al Demiola ever play his signature model ? He does not even hold one in the ovation ads that i have seen.He holds an early custom legend in the ads. He has used his older custom legends but i have never seen him play his signature model.Has anyone ever seen him use one??It seems that he endorses Ovation but never really use them..
I heard a story a few years ago about Al playing in CT. and many of the ovation employees went to see the show.They arrived early and went to see him..He did not even have an Ovation with him,he had a Godan on his guitar stand..This left some of the Ovation guys puzzled...Why in the hell would he show up to play in CT. without an Ovation?? I get the impression he does not take his Ovation endorsement seriuosly...If he did he would play his signature model...Maybe someone has seen him us one? Maybe im wrong? |
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Location: Scotland | The latest issue of guitar player magazine has a feature on him. Ovation get a brief mention but the pics show him with everything but his signature model. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I don't think anyone doubts Melissa Ethridge's talent, or at least I don't. In the context above, she is known mostly for her songwriting, singing and performing. She is a fine player for sure, but that's not really what she's known for. As another example that's just more dramatic.... I remember one of the Princes Trust concerts where Phil Collins followed Elton John on a Piano song. Phil actually is a really good piano player, but it was a mistake putting him after Elton John in a concert. As many great songs that Phil has written, sang and played... He is still "known" as a drummer. Elton John is known as a Pianist, Melissa is known as a singer/songwriter (and a damn good one...) |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Paul T
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll see if I can run down some of their work on the net as I'd really like to see what's being done now. When we get older we tend to get into the rut of thinking only your influences are the real thing. I know whats current in blue grass and it's OK, but I've tried to listen to all genres.
Looks like you had some hefty storms on your island as well as Russ's, hope you weren't hit by any of them.
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | Bail;
Being into bluegrass as you are, have you heard Nickle Creek?
[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: cliff ] |
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Location: coral springs florida | samova
I did see Al D. play his model (that is if a Black deep bowl custom legend looking thing is his model) at a fundraiser for some "Italian American" cross continental TV morning show. Why I was there is a long story (which also involved another Ovation guitar). He played it completely solo and while I've never been a big fan, it's undeniable he is a powerful performer, and his performance moved me. We were seated together, which bonded us. (Or maybe it was the wine) A great guy, and even better player. Mind you this was 7 years ago, so maybe he is using something else these days. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Cliff
Yes I have heard a great deal of Nickle Creek and they are super talented young players. They backed Dolly Parton on an Austin City Limits Concert, and were featured on a CMT Life and Times or some such all of which I have taped. What interested me is they are from San Marcos, CA where my son lives and where we used to play bluegrass too (before they were born). Alison Krause has produced their CD's and has made big stars out of them.
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | I saw that performance on Austin City Limits and was duly impressed (although I'm still a novice in the 'new' grass dept). Nickel Creek is set to perform on CBS 'the early show' tomorrow morning. Is San Marcos a suburb of San Diego? I read they're from the latter of the two...
[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Rich ] |
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Location: NJ | There's an article (albeit small) in the latest issue of Guitar World(Acoustic) - James Taylor on the cover. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | San Marcos is in North San Diego County a beautiful part of the country, but in danger of losing it's appeal as is most of CA. It is not far from Palomar mountain, home of an early observatory that had the world's biggest mirror at one time, since eclipsed by larger mirrors elsewhere. If those avocado orchards at it's base are replaced with tract housing, another pleasant place will be gone.
Bailey
[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Shania playing a new Viper with Elton