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Location: Pensacola,FL | Anyone ever heard of or used one of these?
Jellifish :confused: |
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Location: NJ | never saw that on in particular but it is something that has been tried over and over the sharktooth was one and there were probably more. I still have a stone mind pick from the seventies !!!!! |
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Location: Scotland | Every so often someone tries to reinvent the wheel. Anybody remember the "Strum Rose"? this was supposedly a pick which would simulate a 12-string (it doesn't) now marketed by Dunlop
http://www.elderly.com/brands/dunlop.html |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Those are some pretty cool picks.. I was just running out of matchbooks too. :) |
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Location: Canada | I hope those jellifish "fins" aren't made of metal. They say on their page that it will not scratch the surface of your guitar more than the conventional pick, but is it true? |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Verrry interesting, but unneccessary
The pick is the last item that I would ever want to change and that one looks positively dangerous, but I am old and not very receptive to innovation. I'm buying up all the Dunlop 1 mm in case they are discontinued, or maybe they already have been as I see fewer and fewer. The pick is not IMHO the area that needs improvement. Now something that would trim off the excess unwound string length and not leave a needle point to penetrate my finger when I least expect it, THAT would be an invention.
Bailey
[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: Scotland | Bailey, It's been done. Ned Steinberger has developed a tuning machine which automatically trims the string as it's brought up to pitch. Marketed by Daddario, take a look
http://www.planet-waves.com/guitarhardware/home.html |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | OGL1, do you ever get jellifish over there in the gulf? Those are the only ones I'd worry about |
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Location: Pensacola,FL | dubyatoo,
Being old & fat as I am, I only look at the Gulf from my chair on the shore - no problem wit Jellifish here even if I sees one :D |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Hey OGL1
That's my kind of beach bum, did beach bums ever go in the water? My visits to the best beaches consisted of travelling from beachfront bar to beachfront bar connecting with the bikinied ocean fauna, tangling with jellyfish is for the ones too young to buy a drink.
Paul T
That seems like an expensive solution to a small problem, but I definately added that web site to my favorites. If it works though it might be valuable to users of trems.
Bailey :D |
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| Wow...tough crowd!!! :)
Seriously, a musician who openly admits being hostile to innovation? What's going on in this forum...music *is* about innovation...anyone who's forgotten that is *exactly* the person who most needs a Jellifish!
The Jellifish is *not* a guitar pick; we prefer to call it a "rasp". The "handle" portion could have been designed to resemble any number of geometries...we simply chose something similar to a guitar pick so that the product wouldn't be intimidating.
After you try the Jellifish, you'll agree: The product has more in common with the capo, slide or vibrato arm in that it is a mechanical device which *radically* alters the instrument's timbre.
The Jellifish has *nothing* in common with the Strum Rose, the SharkTooth or any other novelty guitar pick...simply because the Jellifish is *not* a novelty item: Watch the videos (broadband versions located in the drop-down menu beneath the video window have much better sound quality).
The Jellifish is *not* an attempt to "reinvent the wheel." It is 100% new. It is not a new take on a guitar pick. It is a new plectrum; i.e., it is a new way to actuate the strings of a guitar, banjo, mandolin, etc. for the *primary* purpose of obtaining unique timbres.
A guitar pick actuates the strings for the pragmatic purpose of sounding the desired note or notes; it's purpose is to convey the notes the musician wishes one to hear. The Jellifish is about *more* than that; it is about conveying those notes with an added "mood" or "attitude." Any guitarist who can't follow this distinction needs to set the woodshedding aside and get in touch with the music...audiences are interested in your ability to convey feeling, not licks!!!
As for Rory who's concerned about the effect of picks and Jellifish on the instrument's finish: Plectra are for the strings, not the finish...if you're using proper techique, neither a guitar pick or a Jellifish will ever come in contact with even so much as your pickguard, particularly on an acoustic, such as an Ovation.
Which brings me to my final point: This is an Ovation Fan Club site, right? You know, Ovation, those "weird" guitars with the "unconventional" roundback? It bespeaks more than a wee bit of irony that a forum for a fan club devoted to a really cool guitar that came from the mind of a guy who embraced a radical non-purist idea would be the venue for so many to express disdain for the New!!!
If I can't persuade you to give Jellifish a try (or at least a listen on the website), then please scallop your frets, for many of you are in need of a sharp poke in the ear to reawaken your spirit of innovation and change!!! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well written Robb!
Not sure you read all the posts. We are an opinionated group, and I think we usually cover the spectrum. Just as someone may never want something more than the purest of sounds, I have a drawer full of gizmo's and gadgets just to make different sounds. Capos, Picks, Slides... I have most of them.
Are you going to be at NAMM ? |
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| Thanks, Mr. "O"...and thanks for reminding me...some of the Jellifish crew will be at NAMM (including Yours Truly)...just look for the obnoxious purple shirts with the Pantone 312 logos :) and I'll be happy to give you a demo and a Jellifish, gratis! |
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Location: NJ | Robb I will be looking for you at NAMM beforewarned |
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Location: NJ | Robb;
I have to admit the first time I saw the mag ad it did peak my interest. Now after "listening" to you, I gotta go out and find one and try it out!
(pssstt.....hey Paul, I just figured out a way for you to repay me for those NAMM passes!)
Robb, nice choice on the PMS 312 blue!
(of course it all depends on the shade of purple on the shirts!)
Good Luck with the Jellifish!
Viva la Innovacion!!! |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Well, looks interesting. I don't know that I would want to use one on every song, but probably be cool on some arrangements. When's the contest start??
On a similar topic, I'm known among my player friends and band as the string breaker. And, they always break at the bridge of my Celebrity. I tried sanding it down some, but still tend to break strings (I do pound on it some :) )
A guitar repair guy told me it was becausing I use thin picks (?), I tried changing to a more medium type, but it feels like the pick is bouncing way off the strings when I strum, better for playing leads and I am ususally the rythym guy. Maybe I need to take a finer sandpaper to my bridge - I was using some steel wool which is all I had on hand... |
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| The Jellifish *isn't* for *every* song, or even *most* songs. I would say the same for a slide or capo. The best way to use a *bit* of flash is in moderation. Let good judgment be your guide. If you come up with a riff or chord progression using the Jellifish, then it's probably a safe bet that it's tasteful. But if you try to apply the Jellifish to a stale jam in hopes that it will compensate for something that's missing musically, then it will probably have the same effect as using a lot of mayo on a day-old slice of balogna.
As for the contest, we're already accepting CDs, tapes, video footage, etc. of people using the Jellifish. Send 'em to:
Jellifish Inc
ATTN: Contest
17W755 Butterfield Rd
Oakbrook Terrace IL 60181 |
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Location: NJ | I'm a bit "heavy handed" myself, and I have the same problem. I wouldn't sand that saddle (or anymore). I bought a brandy new saddle from Al and while it helped a little, it didn't alleviate the problem completely. I've found that (at least when playing "live") that turning up your volume just a little more than you usually do kinda forces you to back off a little from "punching it" so much.
A slightly heavier pick MAY help, but haven't tried. Right now I'm using D'addario light strings and Dunlop Tortex .50mm picks. Have been thinking of going up to .60mm and see how that goes.
I seem to remember a whole string (no pun)on this topic that I started a while ago. If you do a SEARCH on "Strings" you're bound to find it.
Good Luck! |
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Location: NJ | btw Robb;
I just ordered a "duet" from your website.
thx! |
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Location: Scotland | A good way to stop breaking strings on stage is to get your monitors LOUD. If you're still breaking stings it may be time to experiment with brands. Different manufacturers use various combinations of wrap & core wire to achieve a specific wound string-gauge. One will suit your style, you just have to find it & stick with it. If you are constantly breaking plain strings you need to a)Check the bridge b) lighten up with the right hand C) change strings more often d)go up a gauge e)take up the harmonica.
Rob,I wish you well with the Jellifish, I'm sure it will find it's way onto many recordings. However, comparing it to a capo, slide or hand-vibrato - "The product has more in common with the capo, slide or vibrato arm in that it is a mechanical device which *radically* alters the instrument's timbre" - is simply ludicrous. One comparison I can make is to the Ebow. Like the Jellifish, the ebow, to use your terminolgy, "actuates the strings for the pragmatic purpose of sounding the desired note" Admitedly the Ebow can only actuate one string at a time, but you get my drift. I consider myself a slide player at least 45% of the time & would find life as a professional musician dificult without several capos. My Ebow however gets used once in a blue moon simply because it's about texture and colour, rather than the basis of a sound or style. While the idea of the Ebow maybe unique it is not for everbody & can wear thin VERY quicky. I hope the Jelifish is a success for you, & I'm sure lots of guitarists will try it & experiment with it, if it becomes available in the UK I wil certainly buy one, & I'm sure I would use it occasionaly. |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Guys,
Thanks for the string suggestions - I did read the thread about breaking strings, good stuff. Sounds like I'm not the only "heavy-handed" player out there :p
Our band is just starting out (I think it's a mid life crisis for some of us) and we are experimenting with PA/Acoustic amps/etc.
I'll start a new thread after more experience!
Goog luck with the Jellifish!
Cliff, let us know what you think... |
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| Cliff, saw your order yesterday morning...thanks for having faith!
One comment I can add to this string gauge topic is that in prototyping the Jellifish, we went through literally hundreds of variations of (i) metallurgical composition, (ii) gauge, and (iii) wound vs. unwound (and a few other things that I won't address here).
Based on our discussions with string manufacturers, it's safe to say that a majority of of the wire that's used for making unwound strings as well as the core and cover wire of wound strings comes from the Mapes company: www.mapeswire.com (and, as most of you probably know, most brands of string are manufactured by a handful of companies that actually produce the sets).
What we found in our tests were minor (but significant to Jellifish) variations in (i) gauge, and (ii) base metal composition. I am *not* talking about *between* string brands or even different sets of the same brand, but from one *production lot* of the *same* set-type to another.
For your purposes, we can disregard the composition variations in one batch of an alloy to the next (this made a difference to us because we're experimenting with laser Nd-YAG and micro-TIG welding the subassemblies, and minor metal variations matter with these procedures).
However, the variations is gauge can be significant. Specifically, some manufacturers are more prone than others to call a string that's closer to a 0.030 or 0.034 a "32." In other words, you're not always getting what you think you are. Most of the deviations we found were more minor than this example, but there are some brands that are, apparently, less -- shall we say -- detail oriented, and the example I just provided is drawn from real experience. And, given that a 0.030 is 6.25% thinner than a 0.032, this so-called 32 would certainly be more prone to break than an actual 32.
No, I'm not going to point the finger. What you can do if this presents a real problem for you is get a micrometer and verify that what you think you have is actually what the company provided. I'm inclined to say that if you're purchasing from the top 3 brands, you're all right, but we each may have different ideas as to who I'm referring to, so let's just say that there were more inconsistencies among the lesser-known brands in our testing here.
Oh, I also want to address Paul's points...Paul, I totally agree with you about overuse. I myself use the Jellifish only about 5% in my playing and of that 5%, about 80% is Chorus!, 19% is Pluck! and 1% is Bow! 90% of the time, I'm using a Fender thin cellulose on acoustic or fingerstyle.
I've got an eBow, but there's a heck of a learning curve on it, so I've never used it in any songs. The reason I compare the Jellifish to a capo or a slide (or a vibrato arm) is that these are all mechanical, whereas the eBow is electonic. Personally, I use a slide and a capo only when I have a specific sound in mind that calls for one or the other (or both), so I tend to think of these as mechanical "stomp boxes", but I totally see where you're coming from in terms of saying that, for your playing, they are not effects, but inseperable from the style of music itself -- hadn't thought of it that way 'til you brought it up, but it makes sense completely!
I guess the same duality could be said of many (if not all) guitar accessories (outside of straps and string-winders and the like); e.g., some styles of music require a distortion or wah pedal all of the time, and Lenny Walker has made the eBow a signature part of his sound. So, I guess it's debatible that someone could and even may make the Jellifish the cornerstone of their signature sound and, if this person became an icon, then presumably that signature sound would further evolve into a style.
This is probably going to surprise you, but I'm actually quite glad this is all hypothetical, because, personally, I wouldn't want to hear 100% Jellifish any more than I'd want to hear 100% flange!
Cheers,
Robb |
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Location: NJ | Just received the pair of Jellifish(es) that I ordered in the mail today (things like this I usually order "two" of . . . if I like 'em, I'll always have a spare . . . if I hate it and I end up "launching" it as far as I can, I'll have another one to try again when I "cool off" .. and/or to have on hand to reload the trebuchet!).
Will take 'em home tonight to try. I'll offer a review/opinion after a fair amount of time of trial & experimentation. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Robb,
Please email me with your BOOTH number.
Miles |
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Location: NJ | Yeah Robb
we will seek you out, hunt you like a dog, and find your display.
Let's hope there is an Ovation to demo this device or you may be in trouble.... |
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| Not doing the booth *this* show guys, but you can still hunt me down...I'll be one of the guys in the purple Jellifish shirts. Shouldn't be too hard to pick me out if you've watched the videos :)
-Robb |
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| Willie Nelson would dissagree that a pick touching the finish is bad technique. But then again, he probably doesn't care either way. Tim |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Robb
I stated that the pick is the last area that needs changing, but I'll modify that with a IMHO qualification. You are right in your assesment that some of us are hidebound traditionalists, but try to play a fast fiddle tune on a mandolin with a pick that repeats, if what you are doing gets applause, is a change necessary, and if it isn't are gimmicks the answer? Every idea deserves a chance and a forum and your postings are proof that you are a super salesman for your product and I hope everybody here at least tries it as it isn't that expensive, and I can see some areas where it might work. Bluegrass is where I play with a band, but I try a lot of things at home.
Bailey |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I sure hopes noone thinks I'm picking on them with this post... cause frankly I'm guilty of forgetting how and when things started myself.
I think Robb posted a comment about the attitudes of "tradtionalists" playing round guitars made of of spaceage material and experimentation.
I was just thinking, about blues and especially bluegrass, and mountain music... Many traditional acoustic players aspire to be purests as they were "back in the day" and in my view... back in the day.. those folks were ANYTHING but purests.
Some things came out of necessity, but I think most came out of a few snorts from the moonshine bottle and "hmm lets see what happens if........"
.... we hook a mop handle to the bottom of a wash bucket and connecting a string... Now THAT's a Bass!!!
.... we take a guitar, replace the top with a hubcap, lay it on our lap, and play it with a beer bottle.
.... we realized that sound does not bounce OUT of a box, and came to a realization that ROUND is a good thing.
Now you can make a really cool bunch of sounds with this Jellyfish pick thing...
This was a short list, but I think you get the idea... Robb, I think you and your product are living up to the tradition and spirit of the early American musicians, who did whatever it took, used whatever they could, always experimenting and inventing.... to make more music. I haven't tried half the music making inventions out there, and half of the ones I've tried, I haven't used again... but I'm glad people keep coming up with ideas and new gadgets for me to try. |
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| Wow...I couldn't ask for a nicer compliment than that...and I think you have hit upon exactly what it is that we at Jellifish (especially me, as the founder) want to do: Develop products for musicians that haven't been developed before...because, as I think you're saying, sometimes new music comes from new ideas. So (hopefully) you won't see us hawking straps, strings or picks...not because those aren't necessary, but because they've already been invented, more or less perfected, and there are plenty of companies out there satisfying demand. Put another way, I can't see how Jellifish Inc producing those products would inspire someone to write something they wouldn't have otherwise. On the other hand, I *do* hope that the Jellifish and some of the other new "toys" that we're working on inspire *thousands* -- not just because I'd like to keep the doors open, but because I *enjoy* listening to fresh, new music that's made with traditional instruments (versus Acid loops). I also suppose there's a part of me that hopes that some of the young kids who feel there's no point in picking up guitar, bass or drums because "everything's been done" will look at some of these totally new doodads we're working on and think instead that "if this stuff is totally new, then whatever I can produce on a guitar using that *hasn't* been heard before."
-Robb |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Rock on Robb |
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Location: NJ | Robb
I spent 4 days looking for a jellyfish guy to get a sample and harrass and I could not find anyone... |
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| We were walking the floor Friday & Saturday just waiting to be pounced upon by someone from Ovation Fan Club...to no avail!!! And...we spent both days in the guitar halls. Bassist Dave Pomeroy used the Jellifish during his GHS clinic (nice plug...don't think GHS appreciated it, but ce la vie!), Steve Vai asked if he could have 2 Jellifish (no problem, we came with about 300 samples to give out), and the guys from Seymour Duncan's new Duncan Turner Acoustic Research division totally dug it (their clinician was getting really cool Michael Hedges tones with it on his guitbox)...and those are just a few...where were you guys?!? Yes, I spent quite a while at KAMAN's *huge* -- booth would seem a misnomer -- space *specifically* hoping to connect!!! Drat, foiled again :) |
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Location: NJ | Robb
I was all over Namm and spent a disproportionate amount of time at the Kaman booth looks like we just missed each other. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ditto I was looking for ya too. "How hard can it be to spot a jellyfish?" I thought ....
I guess harder than I thought. |
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| I should have given you guys a cell #
We're considering going into the retail channel...in fact, I'm heading down to Nashville tomorrow to meet with about 24 different store owners over the next several days. If we do decide to go this more traditional route (versus staying direct-to-consumer e-commerce), then we'll do a booth at Summer NAMM.
Any thoughts?
-Robb |
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Location: NJ | Robb
we should have called you too.
I think you need to either do direct or have dealer doing both does NOT work IMHO |
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Location: NJ | Hi, Robb;
I've had my Jellifish(es) for a couple of weeks now and "overall", I'm pretty happy with it. As was stated earlier in previous posts, it's not something that I would want to use "all the time" or even "often", but it IS in fact something that can add a certain "color" or "texture" to your sound.
My very first impression was that I was a bit "clumsy with it, but I attributed that to inexperience with the device and I gained proficiency with it with just a little bit of practice. I initially tried it out with my Custom Balladeer in "unplugged" mode. I must admit that I wasn't overtly impressed with the sound at first. The sound seemed a bit "muted" and didn't have the "ring" to it that I get with a normal pick and the combination of my wound strings and the wound wires on the Jellifish produced a bit of a metallic "rasp" sound (which I would probably use in very finite circumstances, but not an overall sound that I personally would use readily). During setup/tuneup at a recent gig, I experimented with it a bit "plugged in" and a little more pleased with the results. The amplification helped to compensate for the diminished volume and the result when used with various effects brought about some interesting tonal textures. Not being an electric guitarist, I didn't have the opportunity to use it on an electric but I suspect that the results would be more suitable on lighter, smoother strings.
When I strummed my SlotHead with it sounded amazing! I usually keep it in Double-Drop D tuning and when strumming open chords with it, it sounded like a big, bronze windchime!! All of the notes were big, and bright and ringing. It sounded like an autoharp on steroids!! Nice!!!! Even if I just used it on certain instances just with this guitar, it was well worth the investment.
On a gig, I used it on a song that my partner sings on and I just add "color" (Guns & Roses' "Patience"). Half way through the song, I was experimenting a little with the position in which I was holding the Jellifish in order to get a little "brighter" arpeggiated chords. I had achieved what I wanted by rotating it forward and just using one-third of the tines on it (the longest ones). While this gave me the sound that I wanted while the song was building to a crescendo, at the end of the song I discovered that I had lost the two longest tines and had "unraveled" the third (see attached photo).
Lesson Learned: "Don't DO that!" (This is why I bought TWO of them.)
Overall, I am quite pleased with it and find that it is a nice little "bit of kit" (if I may steal a phrase from Master Templeman). As said previously, it's not something you'll use a lot (or frequently), but it is definitely a nice addition to your arsenal for "whenever".
The only suggestions I might have would be:
To possibly experiment with a version utilizing smooth, unwound wire "tines", and to possibly add a grinding/finishing step at the end of production (the ends of the wires are a bit sharp where they are "sheared" and sometimes "hang up" on the strings (I filed mine down by hand).
You also might want to consider adding a Jellifish "wearables" feature to your webpage/ordering. I really like the logo and would LOVE to be able to buy one of those purple t-shirts.
Keep up the good work! |
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| Cliff,
We're working on making the clothing available. I'll let you know when the Jelliwear section of the site is available. (There is a CafePress site one of our summer interns created as a joke: http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=jellifish )
From the looks of the Jellifish in the picture, you're using *way* too much pressure. Actually, the amount of pressure that will result in the best sounds ranges from feather light to light, particularly with the Chorus! technique.
We've been experimenting with various production method on the tines/wire-assembly and the production lot that yours came from did have rougher ends than what we're shooting for. The rest of that batch did go onto a grinding wheel, but we're presently experimenting with a couple other methods of cutting the wires to produce a smoother finish at the end, including laser cutting. (The current method uses a wireforming machine called a four-slide, requiring frequent sharpening and operator intervention.)
As for producing a line of unwound Jellifish, it's *absolutely* in the works. The reason we chose to bring out the "ribbed" variety first is that the windings on the tines allow you to achieve the Bow! effect. Without the ribs, it's impossible to produce the Bow! effect and the Pluck! effect sounds less like a dulcimer and more like a "glassy" sound.
Thanks for the feedback.
-Robb |
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| Hey Rob,
Just ordered 2 of those suckers(Marco). I was quite impressed with the sound clips. I imagine playing these things on a twelve string must sound completely intoxicating. I'm always looking for shit to take me above and beyond the norm, guess that's why I play an Ovation. Good luck with jellyfish and I imagine companies like yours will do well with items like these in an age where everyone is looking for a new sound(the ones with any taste at least). Warm regards and look for my review. |
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Jellifish??