|
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | Man you guys are serious about your Ovations,which is very cool dont get me wrong,but I think to bad mouth us on the fan club page is pretty much useless.I think that whoever comes for the tour,really ought to say something to the management people that will be there.I find myself talking like this and i work there,and I still cant figure why we dont do more with the artist's,marketing whatever.I think if the word gets to the ears that it needs to get to- who knows maybe something would change.I have been trying for years to give ideas and it doesnt seem to pan out.
P.S Paul hebert your logos are on the way |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I think it would behoove us to "bad mouth" Ovation by any means, and that's NOT really what we're doing.
I think it's more of an assortment of empassioned, frustrated opinions.
It's my understanding that some of the "powers-that-be" do in fact monitor this page and DO in fact take some of the views into consideration.
The Tour should be interesting - to say the least. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | Maybe bad mouthing was the wrong word.I just get the feeling that after reading a great deal of the postings that most of you really dig the old Ovations,and that not many are buying any of the new models. Buying the old models off E-Bay isnt going to keep us in buisness.I know you like what you like, but you have got to understand that we have to build guitars for a huge array of diferent people. I do hope that someone is monoriting this page, becuase i do feel that somethings need to change. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | there are plenty of good ovations still being made and the recent post re 2001 collectors series is testimony to that. what is making a number of us favor the older ovations is that they were consistently good guitars almost no matter what usa model you chose. now with so much overlap, even a guy with over 30 older ovations is trying to figure it all out. it seems marketing is replacing the devotion to making innovative fine instruments. in honesty, when it comes to great sound, percentage wise, ovation is making less great guitars. might be producing more and selling more, but why do you think the members here who really badmouth the "woodies" out there favor older ovations. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | It's somewhat difficult to buy something that you can't find and/or gain access to. When compared to it's counterparts the Ovation webpage is a joke. The far too vast majority of retailers these days either don't carry Ovations (or don't any more), and those that do carry a minimal smattering (if any!) of the US models. Someone "new" to Ovation will never be able to even consider one if they can't see/feel/play one.
Granted they may have access to (and can buy) the imports, which helps the overall bottom line, but it doesn't put work on your table. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | We are still building the same guitars now as we were 20 years ago. How can you say that we are building less great guitars.The only major diff. from now to then is body depth-oops!now there is a sore subject.I belive that we are building even better guitars now.The woods are better the technology is better I mean the whole op. is alot better. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | I agree with you on that Cliff and I dont have an answer on why you cant find a domestic any where.That comes as a surprise to me,since we are still building them, Where they go I dont know. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i said percentage wise ovation is building less great guitars. i dont mean the usa guitars arent fine guitars, but judging by what is for sale, new, percentage wise, most of ovation's line isnt produced in the usa. and i personally own and like all of the bowl depths. they all have their place.
and now i must go practice and gig with my usa ovations until 1 am. i love them. i don't play anything else. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I am so surprised lately about the number of closed minded people, with cold-war 80's attitudes that appearently never talk to anyone under age 20. People who appearenrly expect that high quality guitars drop out of thin air, and that a company that has been in buisness longer than most doesn't have to constantly attract NEW customers.
cms-man, I don't think anyone is diss'n Ovation as such. I think the harsh words are out of frustrations resulting from the realization of the above statement, or more to the point.
Getting old sucks!!!
I also think we are at a point where the lack of seeing the new USA Models either in stores or in media is affecting our view of how many are out there. Like you said, you're making them... they gotta be going someplace, we just aren't seeing them like we used to, although I would guess you are probably making even more of them than you used to. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | cms man
you make some good points.
The reason why there are less USA ovations available in stores is simply because there are less of them made.
The reason why Ovation makes shallow bowl guitars is because of the demand for them.
A company that does not attract new buyers is doomed.
I would have said that by the time most people reach their 40's they have already bought most of their major guitar purchases in their life. But everyday I find myself proving that theory wrong.
What must happen is a balance between attracting the new buyer and satisfying the guy that wanted an Adamas 1 in 1979 and could not afford it until 2003.
You are absolutely correct when you say that buying old guitars off e bay does not support the factory or its workers. I have always said that the strength of the new product lies in the resale value of the old. Part of the purpose of this website is to increase awareness in the product new and old. The more old guitars that get bought at a higher price will only make the new USA Ovations more attractive to the new buyer.
I like the new and old product. I don't always like everything. But I also like my 55 ford pickup and find it easier to work on then my 99.
There again must be a balance between new endorsors and old. There must be a balance between guitars that attract the established player and artist and the new player.
You just keep cranking out guitars and we will get busy making them popular again. LOL |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | Amen to that! Keep on keepin' on :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Without getting into the bowldepth thing again, I think the current guitars are among the best the company has ever made, and while I like deepbowls the mid is a great compromise. My own collection includes guitars from every decade, the oldest being a '68 Deluxe Balladeer, and the most recent a '96 Mando and 200O SMT. An '03 Custom Folklore will be joining them in a few months. While I enjoy the older guitars & would never part with them, as a pro musician it's the new instruments that are my workhorses.
As for Ebay & older guitars. While older USA Ovations can be had so cheaply they will always be attractive to a knowledgable buyer. If that buyer has $400-$600 to spend and has the choice of say, a new Celebrity or a late 70'/early 80's Legend, what's the betting he'll buy the Legend? No, that will not keep the factory in business, but then Celebs are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Equally if someone wanted to spend $1200+ on a new USA guitar I would have no hestitation in recommending an Ovation over the competition. The problem would seem to be finding USA-made instruments in the first place. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Right on, Miles.
CMS-man -- I'm with you all the way. I've got two fairly recent Ovations along with two 70s/early 80s models. The quality of the construction on the new ones are fabulous, the materials are first rate, the electronics are light years ahead, and they cost less (in real dollars) that the earlier ones. I still love my old O's, but sentimentality only goes so far.
There will always be a market for vintage instruments (right, al?), but that won't keep the factory open. What will keep the factory open is building guitars that will entice someone to part with their money.
With all due respect to everyone, marketing is "product, pricing, promoting, packaging, and placing" to meet the needs of your buying market. Every single one of these components has substantially changed since all of us wild-ass, sacriligeous, non-conformist hippie-type long-haired freaks broke tradition and bought our first Ovations. And lets be real ... very few of us could really tell that they were that much better ... we bought them because they were new, radically different, changed the sound coming from acoustics, and gave us an electric-feel neck.
But as with all new waves of innovation, traditional Ovations have become mainstream in the past ten years, especially to the next generation. Mainstream Ovations (the ones adored by most on this board) are selling fewer and fewer precisely because they are mainstream, and we need to face the fact that most mainstream buyers will veer towards the traditional woodies. And us old fogeys are falling into the trap of "they don't make (insert any product here) like they used to" and therefore are buying on eBay and in used stores based on this bigoted misconception.
So Ovation is at a crossroads and in order to flourish, they need to re-evaluate their 5 P's, pissing off the old faithful in the process. (I cite Porsche moving to water cooled motors as an example ... the traditionalists cried "Blasphemy!", but after three years many are coming around to the fact that the new cars are just flat out better given the new paradigms of auto design).
I for one hope Ovation is on the ball, and it looks to this outside party that they are. Product? Take the Elite-T ... virtually everyone here was aghast at first, but once the verdict came in from people who actually played the guitar, it was deemed a winner. And of course ... "the elctric player's acoustic". Pricing? Ovation is priced to the mid market. If they want to compete with Taylor, Martin and Gibson, they need to come out with a line that costs $4000. Rolls Royce used this strategy quite effectively ... no doubt some Harvard MBAs have analyzed this internally and maybe that's what the rumors of a new Adamas are all about. Promoting? Hell, we all agree they can do a better job, but having DJ Ashba leading the charge is taking the fight to the next generation of buyers. And I'm OK with Ovation spending some dollars in skating and surf mags. Packaging? What is selling in volume ... the green, blue, quilted, gothic, etc. I think the MOB is a stroke of genius ... I want to get my hands on one because I think they look really cool and believe that it will be the Elite-T situation all over again. Finally, Placement? It's the web, baby. Let's have an informal show of hands here, people ... how many of you bought your latest guitars over or because of the web? See ... nearly unanimous. That's why you're not seeing that many in stores anymore.
Ovation is a different kind of guitar, and therefore need to be a different kind of company. And they need to STAY different, even when it means they have to endure the ranting of all of us. Because if they do their job right, we'll log on to this site from our nursing homes in thirty years ... and read the rantings from folks who think that Ovations is all f&*ked up and should be making guitars they way they did in '03.
Sorry for the ragin' ... I love this board! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Al, you can afford two trucks? Wow. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | moody I inherited the 55 from my dad and my grandfather. Unfortunately like my 68 pontiac ragtop it needs to be restored.
too many projects so little time |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Here are examples of why I prefer older Ovations. Last summer I was in a music store with my brother. He is a doctor, and the kinda guy where money is no object. (must be nice!) Anyway, he is fond of Taylor guitars, but I have been after him to get an Ovation. The store was rather large with a great selection of acoustic guitars from various makers. My brother went straight to the Taylors, while I went to look for an Ovation to show him. But much to my dismay, every single Ovation there was a shallow bowl model! I thought no way, but yes I was stuck with a bunch of tone dead shallow bowls. Even a Custom Legend shallow bowl! (what a crime that is). Here I was trying my best to make another Ovation convert, and all I can show him are shallow bowls. So I got ahold of the 2002 price list and we sat down and looked the current crop of Ovations over. His first queston was..."Any deep bowl Legends available?" I had to tell him no. Not even a deep bowl Legend. How about a deep bowl Balladeer? he asked,. they have to make that. Yes they do, but only as a pure acoustic after a 3 month wait. Long story short, he bought a Taylor. This is what is so annoying about Ovation. You want a non cutaway, no luck. Ever darn one has a cutaway. Look at the Balladeer. Ebony fingerboard, no now it is rosewood. 5-piece neck? No 2 piece mahogany with a satin finish. Wood overlay on the headstock? No you just see where the 2 piece neck is joined together. Schaller keys? No Ping,what the hell are Ping keys??? Oh well enough about that. My brother has offered to buy my Adamas many times. NO WAY, I gota hold on to that one, what does Ovation make now that could take it's place..NOTHING....Paul Hebert |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Stone, Al, Paul, you all hit it square. I was trying to say it in less words but I just kept missing. I'm glad you guys took the time.
My only addition is to stonebobbo.... who said "I want to get my hands on one because I think they look really cool and believe that it will be the Elite-T situation all over again." you forget to add, "and the chicks will dig it!," but I guess that is a given. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 18
Location: Radford VA | Bottomline, I'll tell you right off the go... I have no "old 'O's". My oldest model is a 97 Balladeer. And I just purchase a 2003 Celebrity with a OP-20 pre. FROM KOREA. Not the greatest guitar in the world is what most of the people on the board would say... however I find it to be a great guitar, entry level and gigs. I've only played for 3 years and I'm 21. To be honest I don't know much about music theory yet I can run off anything by ear (which is not a big deal, most folks can). My favorite song writer is Dave Matthews... I didn't go out and by a Martin (however I do have a Gibson Chet Aktins Acoustic). I pride myself in being able to play most Dave songs... some are a little over my head. But... I owe a Gibson Chet Aktins acoustic and I'd rather play the Celebrity rather than my Chet. OVATION MAKE AN EXCELLENT GUITAR. Any entry level guitar they make is worth owning... Adamas, yeah if you get one it's probably sweet playing. College students like myself can't afford such things. Although if any of you wanna present a deal to a poor college student. LET ME KNOW!!!
Patrick |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | This is what I don't understand about some gutarist. An acoustic guitar is made for one reason....SOUND! I got my Adamas because its sounds awesome. Should that not me the major consideration when buying a guitar? Sure alot of guitars look cool. I learned that lesson when I bought a PRS once. It looked beautiful, but sounded aweful. I don't play Ovations because they look "cool". I play them because they sound great. I don't care if you are 19 are 90. Pick up a guitar and listen. Feel it vibrate. It is an acoustic guitar first. That means it makes it's own sound. It's all about the sound...Paul Hebert |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Gentlemen
Climb into your $40,000 euro-racers, crank up the bass, and cruise the hood with your racer shakin the trees as you go by. With the ho's and bitches dyin to get in and service you, what kind of Ovation would you choose or would you be more concerned about your wheels, some of which cost $4000, not leaving much for a piece of shit that doesn't haul your ass around but requires you to learn something. It's a new world and I applaud the Dave Matthews fan as he plays music as we know it. It's a new world as we've heard every 5 years since Elvis and the Beatles. But is it, or is it just one more turn of the wheel. I think a good sounding acoustic guitar is immortal, and the Elite T might prove it. The surfer might work too.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 150
Location: Minneapolis, MN | you crack me up Bailey! ...ho's and bitches... LOL :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Welcome Patrick,
I'm not a huge Mathews fan, but living in Northern Va, for awhile, I did get an appreciation. I always wondered what his stuff would sound like played on an Ovation. It seems like the perfect music for it, lots of cool chord progessions at a decent volume.
The comment "an acoustic guitar is made for one reason SOUND" got me thinking why I own the acoustics I have... Sound wasn't the only reason, only a factor in most cases.
1. My beloved Medallion bought in the 70's. It was an Ovation that I could afford. We had a "factory outlet" of sorts that sold 2nds so I could get it cheap and I found out it would travel well. I didn't know from sound back then, I thought it would be cool to play a guitar that was made in my home state of Connecticut.
2. Adamas II blue burst. Nancy Wilson played one. AFTER I decided to buy the guitar I realized how wonderful it sounded. The icing on the cake was the pre-amp with the low imped output too.
3. 2001 Collectors. Coolest looking guitar I have seen in awhile, and then WOW the sound. Had to have it.
4. The ELite-T I do not own yet, but it would be the first to sell me on sound. I was kinda 50/50 on the looks, not sure if it's me, but then I played it. I will have one.
5. Adamas - I have heard them, but not in places to really compare, so I figured it would sound as good if not better than the Adamas II. I went searching for one I could afford as mostly an electic player, but a fan of all things Ovation it seemed necessary I have an original Adamas. I found one, or it found me, and I was so knocked out by the tone, and this one has a story behind it that is kinda cool too or in a Mark Twain tone "I won't let the facts get in the way of a good story."
6. Tangent - It's kinda fun to play, and I have taken it to at least one party. I'm not a big fan of the sound I get from it acoustically, but it does pretty good, and it sounds fine plugged in, and acoustically still better than most other guitars that were at the party.
After reading what I wrote, I guess I'm pretty shallow... Of the 5 acoustic guitars I own, none of them was purchased with "sound" as the primary reason to look at it, but only as ONE of the primary reasons.
Breaking it down, any guitar acoustic or electric for me, must excel ultimately in ALL of the following criteria:
Looks, Sound, ease of play, and be what I consider afforable, which is usually the result of my impression of the Looks, Sound, and ease of play.
I think what this and the other thread have shown us all is that people buy and play guitars for some very different reasons. I know a guy that collects and plays guitars for their looks. He likes odd shapes and bizarre colors, and if it sounds really cheezy that's a bonus. (Yes Lee I'm talking about you... you lurker you :)
If I was at Ovation I would be feeling pretty proud that the guitars I produce bring this much passion out of people.
As Al said... (it's worth repeating)
"There again must be a balance between new endorsors and old. There must be a balance between guitars that attract the established player and artist and the new player.
You just keep cranking out guitars and we will get busy making them popular again."
Rock'N Round!!!!!!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Paul H, an acoustic guitar may be designed for sound exclusively (and even that statement could be argued) but an electro-acoustic has several other considerations. I no longer use my '78 Adamas onstage because it gets unruly real quick at the levels I need to play at. My SMT, which doesn't sound quite as big unplugged, behaves itself to the the extent that I can play fingerstyle in front of a loud rhythm section without feedback & with a convincing "acoustic" tone. As for cutaways I would defy you to tell the difference between a cutaway & non-cut Ovation of the same bowldepth in a blindfold test.
I personally find a cutaway essential, which is another reason my old Adamas has been retired. It's one of my favourite guitars and I still use it at home and in the studio. The point is that generally a single instrument will not cover all the bases. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 32
Location: Warsaw, Indiana | I agree with Miles, buying a guitar is a subjective issue. Many moons ago when the linear sound spearkers hit the scene(I'm dating myself) I was shopping for a new stereo system. After spending over an hour with the salesman he thought I was crazy for not buying linear sound speakeres, but I didn't like them. I bought the system that sounded good to me. In 1979, when I walked into the music store in Milwaukee Wisconsin and saw my 78 Blue Adamas in the glass display case, I mentally purchased it without touching it or playing it. The aesthetics are what did it for me.(subjective) I played with a Martin owner and he called it a plastic piece of junk, however, my piece of junk not only looked better that his Martin, it sounded better. I still have my Adamas and to this day I appreciate the craftmanship and the beauty of that guitar. I believe in the Ovation guitar, however, someone like me who plays mostly for pleasure and probably will not have another guitar, is not of interest to the company. So bottom line, if I were to get another guitar it would be an O, the issue is however, if you play, no matter what you play, keep on playing and enjoy! :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | People who tell you that your guitar is "junk" regardless of what you play, are ignorant biased fools who's mothers' never taught them manners. If somebody starts out a conversaton telling me my guitar is "junk" because it's an Ovation, is not worth talking with.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. I never ask that others feel about my guitars the way I do. I hope that they feel about the guitars that they play the way I feel about mine.
And I would never rip somebody else's guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | it's not the quality of the guitars ovation is making, but the fact that the entire product spectrum are thought of as ovations. i realize that there is a market for applause as well as the highest end ovations made. my point is that rather than having all of the guitars lumped together as ovations, that the entry level guitars that have little human contact in the manufacturing process were marketed as such under a seperate name that didn't say ovation anywhere on it.
maybe my business model would fail making guitars, but it worked well for me as an architectural metalsmith. my mentor, francis whitaker, told me early on in my career, "the bottom is crowded, but there is always room at the top". he told me that if i made $50 firesets i would be known for that and if i made $40,000 gates i would become known for that. did i want to mass produce 800 firesets, becoming nothing more than an extension of the machines i ran or produce 1 set of gates that represented the best i could be? i followed his advice and retired comfortably at 44 to pursue other interests. at that time i had 11 employees and a government certified apprenticeship program. one of my students now owns the studio. even though we also made production items as well, they were marketed under another name, and the "by hammer and hand" trademark and name only went on the high quality custom ironwork we produced.
i always thought of ovation as a maverick sort of company that bucked the norm. they looked for clients or customers that weren't sheep and were willing to think for themselves about design and what really sounded best instead of the virtually unchanged guitars offered by other companies. in their high end guitars, ovation continues that tradition. sure, electronics and manufacturing techniques are better today than in '68. but i am sending this message allot differently than i would have in '68 too. taking advantage of technology isnt unique to ovation. the ovation company of yore was known for being at the forefront of guitar technology.
with regard to 80's cold war mentality, and never talking to anyone under 20 i hope that wasn't directed at me. i live in a third world country and work within and around a corrupt system to help the less fortunate. most of those are children. two have severe hearing problems, and i count my blessings that i can hear the difference between guitars that they never will. i play on stage with all ages from 11 to 80 and personally tutor kids in english. another band i am in buys literally tons of food for people who "slip through the social cracks". i make no money whatsoever for my charitable efforts. i own a foreign car and a ford truck (made in canada) and countless foreign products INCLUDING A FEW FOREIGN MADE OVATIONS. please don't take my opinions regarding what i like from ovation and my personal view of their business model as an archie bunker attitude. i am far from that. and we all grow old. hopefully we can make a difference while doing it and pass on some of what we have and what we have learned while as well.
several years ago i was at the home of a well known 8th generation weaver in oaxaca. she was in her 70's weaving alone in her courtyard. i asked her how she did it all alone. she replied that machines in a local factory were producing several blankets a day that took her weeks to make by hand and they copied the traditional designs she wove. i asked her about her daughters, and with a tear in her eye she said they had all gone to the city to seek their fortune. the chain had been broken and without someone to pass her skills on to the legacy of generations was being replaced by production. she died a couple of years ago. and with her we all died a little. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | My point on the cutaway had nothing to do with sound. My point was that if you buy an Ovation, you HAVE to get a cutaway. Why is this? Can't we have an option? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I'd guess it's down to consumer demand & fashion. Cutaway acoustics & electros seem to be more popular than non-cutaways. I find it weird that of all the people I know who own cutaway acoustics most of them only get past the third fret if they're using a capo. I think it's sad that the only non-cut deepbowl in the current line is a Celeb, but if the demand isn't there why bother producing them? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Russ;
VERY well (and eloquently) put Amigo!
I think there is a perceived sense of "polarization" with some of us, when that is not neccesarily the case.
I for one, am NOT opposed to Ovation developing new products/lines to cater to the needs of a newer/younger audience. With all sincerity, I hope the MOB is a HUGE success and it makes them boatloads of money! My opinions were based on two criteria:
Looks - I thought that the guitar was WAY cool looking (with the exception of the Tagament headstock)!
Value - Would I buy one? Hell, YES!! I think it's a really cool guitar (and I have just the sunglasses to go with it)!
Would I pay $700+ for it? Hell, NO!! I just honestly don't feel that a trick, automated paintjob warrants that pricetag for an import guitar. Sound/feel would also enter into it, and though I've never played one, I have played a Tangent - not impressed.
My views aren't based on any ArchieBunker-isms, either. I'll be 47(ow!) years old next month. I've got a 17-year old daughter with boyfriend who just turned 21 (there goes yet ANOTHER grey hair!). She and I (AND He and I) get along quite well because we share a good amount of "common ground". Music being one of the biggest. When I was playing in my last band, we could switch from The Hollies to Creed to Ray Orbison to Alice In Chains to Beatles to 3 Doors Down without blinking an eye. My daughter even used to call me up at work and hold the phone up to the radio with a "this'd be a good song for the band" song. Whenever we'd play at a venue that she could get into, we always did the "My Father's NOT in an Oldies Band!" set. I try to keep abreast (openmindedly) with current trends in order to maintain a finger on her pulse. (Mothers aren't the only ones with umbilical cords.)
My job also requires that I keep current with ongoing trends in fashion, technology, colors, materials, and techniques in order to keep the looks of various shows/exhibits contemporary.
Mixed with that, I have a inane penchant (and respect) for quality and craftsmanship. I have mastered the techniques of wide-format digital imaging while maintaining my long-held skills in the lost art of hand lettering with a brush.
My feelings are that (in most instances) the import Ovations are fine instruments for the money and that I'm more than happy that Ovation is making money with them. It just seems to me that their not exerting the effort promoting/marketing the instruments that put them on the map to begin with. What's gonna happen in a few years if (as someone alluded to earlier) "the Corporation" decides that it would be more cost effective to send ALL of Ovation's lines overseas for production?
I share Russ's view that their are just TOO many models "lumped" under the Ovation name. Adamas started out as an Ovation model and then diverged to "Adamas (by Ovation)" as did Applause. The same should be done (IMHO) with the import line - "Celebrity (or Tangent) by Ovation" and let the Connecticut-built line(s) stand on their own. There's going to be a point (and it's fast approaching) that less-than-savvy consumers are going to equate the Ovation name strictly with the plethora of import guitars on the racks (or mail order pages) in front of them.
Innovation is what made the company what it is, and I'd be happy as hell to see a kid on the beach with an MOB. I'd be happier to see a Custom Legend at the next OzzFest. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | thanks cliff, the check is in the mail buddy.
polarization or not ----mi casa tu casa to my ovation amigos. today is broiled dorado followed by a charity benefit afternoon party with one of the three bands i am involved with (bubba and the bottom feeders) and a movie with free popcorn at philos. i respect all of your opinions regarding what we are all on this site for; sharing what we feel and know about ovations, old and new. it isn't cut and dried like algebra. (thank god). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | WOW!I didnt realize what a response this would have.I agree with all of you on most of your fellings.I have one hypothetical question to put out there for all.What if Ovation USA was to build a slot head Adamas1 in a deep bowl with all the tech. stuff that we have?How many would buy it?Maybe alot of you?How many of you would pay 3 to say maybe 4 THOUSAND for it? People,guitars aren't cheap to build anymore.Wood is extremly hard to find these days.Skilled workers are even harder.My point thru this is that we have to build what people will buy and right now nobody wants to spend big money to buy a very excellent guitar.Now i still dont know where all th us made guitars are going,overseas maybe.Maybe we get theirs and they get ours!Iam just glad to see that all of you are very passionate about the guitars that we work very hard to build.
Oh and by the way you STILL can get a deep bowl non cutaway:-) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Put up or shut up, huh? Interesting proposition. People are spending $3-5K for high end guitars when they perceive the quality and value is there. Taylor, Martin, Olson, and others are proving that every day.
But it is an interesting propostion. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | "...What if Ovation USA was to build a slot head Adamas1 in a deep bowl with all the tech. stuff that we have? How many would buy it?...."
I wouldn't.
But that's because I already have a Slothead :p
I'd probably consider it if it were a 12-string because that will be my next major guitar investment. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | If there was an slot-head reissue for that kind of money I'd have bought one rather than my custom order. And I know this may be sacrilage to some but I'd need a cutaway version! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Cutaway, schmutaway. Ooops, didn't want to start that discussion again. Let's just say we all have our own opinions. But a real interesting thing is what cms-man said earlier. I currently have 20+ ovations in my possession and over the years I would guess 35 or so have some and gone through my front door. But exactly how many do you think I bought new? THREE! I consider myself an avid ovation fan and supporter, but when you think about it, how much revenue has ovation made off of me? So I can rant and rave about how the company should do this or do that to satisfy what I perceive re ne wants of people like me (people on this board). But, guess what -we collectively don't amount to squat on ovations P&L sheet. Sorry, but that's the facts. Ovation lives and dies by the thousands and thousands of people who buy celebritys from catalogs store, on-line, or in those mass market music stores that we all bash so much. We should all be grateful that if we are willing to put our money where our hearts are, ovation will custom build a guitar for us - just like Paul did. Maybe a bad analogy, but General Motors does not stay in bueiness by sell Corvettes - it's the Chevy pickups and Pontiac Grand AMs that pay the bills. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | The ONLY way in the world I would ever spend $4000 on an Adamas would be if it came with the Tangent headstock. :D
Seriously, I think Ovation would sell a hell of a lot more than they think ... I sort of made this point in an earlier rant. A lot of the people who are currently spending well over $3K on Taylor and Martins would fork over the money for an Adamas I, mostly because a lot of those buyers have the money and are spending on what they PERCEIVE as a quality instrument (which is totally driven by price), but one that also either a) has exceptional sound quality (a given for the Adamas) or b) it's something that they lusted for when they were younger and only now have the bucks to get one.
Today's high end buyers see the new top line Ovations with a street price of (well) under $1500. Compare that with the Taylors, Martins, Gibson, Santa Cruz, etc which are all $3500 and up. (I purposely ignore the low end models as I similarly excluded Celebrities and, forgive me, Balladeers). The buyers will simply not perceive the same level as quality ... how can something be as good if it's only 1/3 the price? I know we can all cite examples to the contrary, but the consumer mind is a very strange beast.
So a $4000 Adamas (made with all the same care and materials as the original) would be a real success ... I would bet that Ovation wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand (another assumtion being a relatively low production volume given the handcrafting aspect).
A relevant example ... the Rickenbacker 360V64/12 was built for 10+ years and priced at $1900 (a couple of hundred bucks over the modern version of the 360). You could count on finding one readily available and the used market was soft. Then Ric killed the line, reintroduced the exact same model named 360C63/12 with a list price of $3200. They are backordered, people are flocking to the guitar, and used 360V64 models are often fetching original list price on eBay.
I would personally figure out a way to buy one ... even if it means selling off one or two other treasured guitars. However, I would personally prefer the carved headstock instead of the slothead, and a non-cutaway (I rarely play acoustic guitar much beyond the 12th fret.
The marketing people need to get going on this (and maybe already are if rumors are correct). But they need to exhibit brass cojones and price it at a big number, even if it means breaking the margin model. The rest of the line is already a great value, and the sales of the USA models will also go up when the market realizes this simply because of the $4000 high end model. The final piece to the puzzle will be (as someone else suggested) branding the Celebrity line as such (by Ovation). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | All interesting issues.
Could the company profitable make a $4000 list price guitar?
Could the company sell this same guitar?
I made this suggestion before and will make it again. On your upcoming trip to mecca request a round table discussion with the management. Make sure you have the Bloomfield big guys there (otherwise you're all just singing to the choir)
Make sure they hear you. Don't get dazzled and distracted by a softshoe routine should it come to that. (Excellent point there Mr Ovation fan, thanks for raising it. We'll look into that......)Make sure they hear you well.
Good Luck. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 56
Location: Alabama | Dave; My Chevy Pick Up is NOT a Celebrity, Definatly a LEGEND. :p |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | I knew I'd take some flack over the general motors analogy. Let's try this - Porsche is now offering a Sport Utility Vehicle. Why? Because they would go out of business if they continued to only sell sports cars to such a limited market. |
|
| |
Big Time Ragin'