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Location: NJ | Hey everyone just a word or two about NAMM. Ovation has a Q on display althought it is not yet ready for the public.
The new MOB looks better in person than in pics and the 2003 has inlaid epaulets that I think are awesome.
Miles and I had dinner with Paul Templeton and MoodyPI last night along with Kim Keller.
Matt Smith is performing at the Ovation booth and is killer as usual.
We all sat down with Rick Hall to discuss the factory tour and OFC day and it looks like we are going to have a fun time. I will post more later. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I have seen pictures of the 2003 collectors model , and it looks great. I really like the tortoise binding on it. Great job Ovation!...Paul Hebert |
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Location: The Shop | what did you think of the "Q"?Any price on it? :cool: |
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Location: SoCal | The Q was in a rotating display case. No play, no price. |
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Location: The Shop | Is the Q open for public discussion?Did you get any info on it? |
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Location: SoCal | Only that it's not ready yet in that sound-wise, it's not where they want it to be. One cool feature was that the volume control on it was touch sensitive, like the 97 collectors, except that it has leds that light up. |
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Location: Scotland | I have a pic of the Q, I'm not sure how good it will be through the glass, but if it looks OK I'll post it when I get home.
It was a blast meeting you guys, I'm looking forward to the factory visit, which hopefully will be a little less manic. |
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Location: Scotland | Here she is.....
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/gallery/adamasq.jpg
A few obvious changes from the Q which appeared in the '99 catalog. Bridge & fingerboard are now graphite rather than ebony, new soundhole shape & it's an electro with a new pickup & preamp.
There were a few other composite guitars at the show. I tried a couple of Rainsongs in their soundproof booth (nice touch!) and they were much better than I remember from a while ago but still wouldn't make me part with a couple of grand. Martin were showing a graphite-topped guitar with formica (sorry, "high-pressure laminate") back & sides that looked & sounded truly awful, and an Irish-based company called Emerald were showing some all-composite guitars in metallic finishes which were unbeleivably mediocre. None of them could compete with a current SMT or CVT. |
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Location: The Shop | Well now you have seen the Q.I wish I coul tell you the price,but Iam not sure if iam allowed to!I will say this,That if you were to buy this guitar,you could just about get a very good used car for the same price.I will find out if we are allowed to talk about it at work tomorrow.It is a sweet sounding guitar.Start saving the money! :D |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | While were on the subject of Graphite guitars and the Q,i want to ask you guys who were at the NAMM show if any of you played an all graphite guitar called CA guitars(composite acoustic)..I just played one in a music store and was totally blown away by the sound..The price was $1400 with awesome electronics that had a pickup and mic blender system..I went in this store to play some high end wooden acoustics and was floored by the sound of this guitar..Even the store owner and employees who are "wood guitar" guys and do not like alternative material guitars(ovation ,rainsong,ect.)were praising this guitar..I guess my question is has anyone played one of these guitars and does ovation have a problem trying to market a graphite guitar priced at around $6000 when there is a great sounding all graphite guitar in the market for $1400 ?I took several of my favorite ovations and wood guitars with me to the store and compared.It wasnt even close..I open this for debate.Hopefully under the right topic?Remember i write this as a ovation guitar fan and am curious about the Q and its competition in the market place. Any thoughts? |
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Location: SoCal | Sam:
Great guitars come in all forms and to say that Ovation has a lock is very narrow minded. I haven't seen this guitar you speak of (I didn't see it a NAMM but then I was only there for an afternoon) but will watch for it here in SoCal. |
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Location: NJ | Sam as far as I know composite acoustics were not at the Namm show. I do not know the guitars.
Can Ovation market a guitar for 6K absolutely. So can Fender Gibson Martin etc because they have a company and a brand to back them up.
I have played the Q. I thought it was very good. I am not so sure I would rush out and buy one and that is because I have many guitars that are very good also. I would love to have one though. The design look feel and sound are all great.
Rainsnot is producing guitars in Korea with graphite tops and they are around 1400 as imports. I have not played or heard the guitars although I was told that rainsnot quality has gone up.
I am positive that if Ovation marketed the guitar right it would sell. The way I see it you always need an elusive expensive model in the product line. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Paul, i never assumed that ovation has a lock on this technology,so im not sure where you read that in my post.I would say however that ovation was probably one of the first, if not the first with graphite guitar technology..So, my questions are still,now that there are great sounding(my opinion)graphite guitars on the market for $1400.00.Where does that leave the Q guitar at $6000? Again,i open this for debate..Maybe im missing something here? |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, you make some good points and im sure ovation can market the $6000 Q guitar and someone will buy it.BTW the CA guitars are built in the USA and i did not know some rainsongs were built overseas...I have never liked rainsongs..I have played several and never found one i liked..I would love to try a current adamas Q to see how it performs..The two that i played at the factory a couple of years ago were OK,not spectacular.In ovations defense those were early prototypes.. |
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Location: Scotland | The NAMM directory doesn't list Composite Acoustics as exhibiting this year, nor were Chrysalis guitars. For those interested the CA website is
http://www.caguitars.com/indexFlash.html
and Chrysalis is:
http://www.chrysalisguitars.com/
Rainsong are now producing a sub-$1K guitar with a composite top & laminated Mahogany back & sides. Their blurb doesn't state overseas or domestic build. Their all-grahite guitars start at around $2K. I tried and liked both, though not enough to want to own one. The Irish-made all composite Emeralds at around $2K reminded me of early Rainsongs but not quite as good. (read between the lines on that one!) Composite look interesting, it's a pity we didn't get a chance to see them.
As for the Composite V. the Q, I think there's more to this than price point. There's room for composites, or any type of guitar at every price & sound isn't always the buyer's primary consideration. People haven't stopped buying Neumanns just because Rode make a $500 mike that sounds good. Equally people continue to buy Neumann because of reputation & the prestige associated with owning one. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hey Sam, Composite Acoustics are made here im my home town Lafayette, Louisiana. They are great sounding guitars. A few local dealers carry them here...Paul Hebert |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Paul,thanks for the info..I went into this store looking for something else and got blindsided by this guitar.I dont know maybe this one had that special something.They only had one..
What really suprized me was that it has a vintage wood guitar tone.The notes were clean,crisp and this guitar rang like a bell..I'll have to admit when i first picked it up it did not look like much.I thought probably a rainsong type cheap copy..Then i hit the first chord and just looked up at the store owner who was looking right at me to see my responce..I quickly went and picked up a $3000 Gallager(doc watson)that i had played before and knew it would blow away the CA guitar.The CA was right there with it and in some aspects better..
So, i went back today armed with my adamas slothead and my larrivee DV10E...The two guitars i took did well but clearly the CA was a better guitar...
For $1400 this a great deal..I hope the adamas Q will sound at least this good ,hopefully better.....Anyway,thats my opinion! |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | Just what I need, another source of GAS.
I wonder if they sell those CA's around Chicago land?
Bradley |
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Location: Seattle | I also have played a Composite Acoustic and was extremely impressed with it's sound.
If Ovation / Adamas does plan on marketing a composite guitar at $6,000 as rumored, I hope for their sake it sounds $4,600 better than the C/A. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hey guys, I just got of the phone with CA guitars, and I will be getting a factoy tour tommorow. Really nice people, who are very excited about their product. I am glad they are located in my town. I will bring my Adamas to compare tone. I will let yall know what I learn. Anybody have any questions to ask?...Paul Hebert |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | It seems to me that the "Q" which has been in the catalogs since 1997 and probably developed since 1995 or 96 is just too long in the making.It was priced at $6000 in 1997.I have a price sheet and catalog somewhere..Anyway,since 1997 graphite guitar technology and the cost of producing graphite has come way down.I look at graphite car parts for example.Graphite hoods for some sports cars is way down in the last 4-5 years.It seems that other industries have figured out how to produce graphite products better and cheaper.I also see this Composite acoustic guitar company making a great sounding all graphite guitar for $1400 with amazing electronics..Has ovation missed the boat here?Is the "Q" idea too late?After all its been 7 years and still no production. Is it possible that they have a product priced at $6000 that will blow me away and i'll get my credit card out and buy one on the spot?After all the CA guitar stacks up to the best wood guitars from what ive seen and played and its only $1400....As sonny wrote earlier is the Q $4600 better?Please dont misunderstand,i ask all these questions as a fan and do not mean to bash Ovation in any way.After all its possible the "Q" will shut me up with its sound and quality..Time will tell |
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Location: NJ | Sam
you make some good points BUT you also have to realize that Martin can sell a guitar for 5K because of the merits of its name and I am sure Ovation can also.
I have never seen a composite acoustic guitar or any of their advertising or do I know where to find them.
Ovation has been there in place for many years. Breaking into the marketplace is not easy for an established builder let alone an upstart company.
I am not saying the guitars are not good or that they do not sound good but when the general public thinks alternative materials they think Ovation.
I am sure the powers to be are very aware of all these companies and they are all under consideration for making the Q the absolute best guitar that it can be. |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Although, no Ovation pics, I enjoyed these photos from NAMM:
http://guitar.about.com/library/blphoto_namm0.htm
Y'all neglected to tell us about the "scantily clad chearleaders"
I do like the Hamer....
By the way one of my co-workers was asked what NAMM stands for and I don't know :mad: |
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Location: NJ | I believe it's:
National Association of Music Merchants |
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Location: SoCal | Hey Paul:
One of the guys from Kiss was there in full costume. You should have seen the skanks lined up to see him. And at one booth people were lined up to see somebody who looked like a pimp named Bootsy. His girlfriend was interesting, falling out of her leather outfit.
Do I have a bad attitude or what? |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | LOL :D |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Back on topic here..Al, certainly Ovation is one of the first models people think about when you talk about composite guitars but the fact remains Ovation still does not have a "all Graphite" guitar yet.Simply put they have no reputation when it comes to "all graphite guitars".Other companys have passed them by when it comes to "all graphite guitars"..It seems to me they cannot get it right.Its been 7 years and still no playable guitar.I even heard the one at the show was locked and sealed in a revolving glass case.Someone wrote they are still not happy with the sound yet...So, here is a new upstart company(CA guitars) with a former NASA employee who designs one in two years and makes this thing sell at retail for under $1500...The guitar gets praise from traditional vintage stores like Gruin and elderly that usually dont like composite anything.I have heard nothing put good things about this product.I personally played one and was totally impressed by the "wood sound" of this nonwood guitar..
So, the bottom line is there is at least one great composite guitar out on the market that is earning respect quickly and apparently selling quickly in stores..Then we have a "Q" that is 7 years in developement and it appears they still cannot get the sound right yet.At least there not happy enough with it to put it out on the market..
Although i agree they may sell one or two ,it will be an uphill climb for this guitar in a market that hasevolved, changed and may have passed them by... |
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Location: NJ | Sam you are right there is not an Ovation all graphite guitar but you missed part of my point. Yes CA has a product that is according to you doing well and getting good reviews. I have barely heard of them and have NEVER seen one or even seen an advertisement for them in a magazine or even a write up and I get all the mags.
It is an uphill battle and this battle has been fought partly by Ovation and it is only with their R and D that other companies have been able to come up with what are esentially copies and imporvements on their design. I think when Ovation is ready to release the guitar it will be what everyone expects from Ovation and for the price.
Martin can sell guitars with particle board tops and claim they are saving the environment and sell the guitars on the merit of their name since they sound horrible. Ovation can sell a high end composite guitar on the merit of its name regardless of how it sounds. Ovation can also use the environment angle also
If the CA guitar is better ,than the public will decide and buy those and not the Ovations but I think much like when Takamine came out in the seventies and copied Martin right down to the design of the logo on the headstock there are those that bought a Tak and still lusted for a real Martin no matter how well the Taks sounded.
I did not study marketing and according to some that frequent this board, my business pratices are horrible, but I would put my money with the established entity before the upstart anytime. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, i sure hope your right.No one wants to see the "Q" come out and kick ass more than me but i have a bad feeling here.This product(CA guitars) is very,very good at a awesome price.I predict that the CA guitar will get huge and become the stage guitar of many big artists and the standard for recordings...Bold statement you say!
If im wrong i'll buy you a beer and you can give me the old "i told you so" ..Im curious to se what Paul Hebert reports back from the tour at CA guitars tomorrow.. |
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Location: Scotland | All this talk of compsites reminded me that Brit luthier Rob Armstrong is involved in developing a polymer-based guitar. This has been ongoing for a few years now & looks like it'll be a few more before anything comes to market.
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/cd/docs_dandt/research/dr/polygu... |
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Location: NJ | Sam
Carpe Diem...
do not miss the opportunity!!!!
www.compositeacousticfanclub.com
I know of at least one other person that would join you there....hehehe..... |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, your a funny guy!! I guess i do come off as their number one fan but the fact is when i play my slotted headstock adamas #57, i still get a woody!! So, for now i wont be the founder of the composite acoustic fan club..Although i may buy one of those puppies |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | I though that the Bond guitar was the first all graphite. 1984-1986 |
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Location: Scotland | The Bond was probably the first production all composite solidbody, the discussion here is all-composite acoustics. The Bonds crop up from time to time over here, & they don't fetch more than 2 or 3 hundred. Another example of an innovative product which was just a little too far out for a very conservative market. |
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Location: NJ | I have a bond. It is rather cool and very innovative.
Sam, it was a joke. |
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Location: SoCal | Bond, James Bond?
Hey Sam, if you ever decide that the slothead doesn't do it for you, call me. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Paul, you got an extra $25,000 laying around? LOL
Actually,this guitar will never leave the samova home.It will be passed on to my son,who will then sell it for $1000.00 on e-bay after im gone...DOHH!! |
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Location: NJ | Yeah Sam, I have the same fear of my daughter doing that with mine (especially since she doesn't even play). Perhaps I should put it in some type of "trusteeship" for her. |
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Location: Tennessee | No problem, guys. Solution found! I officially announce the opening of the (semi)official OFC Museum. Location: Casa Bobbo. Please send your Adamii, especially slotheads, pre-1970 models, Deacons, Ultra GPs, Custom double-necks, and anything else marked Adamas or Ovation on the headstock to the attention //0~0\\, Curator. I promise to put a small card next to each one with the statement "graciously donated from the collection of (insert name here). Oh, yeah, Curator also promises to lovingly play them often to make sure they stay in tune. Admission to the OFC Museum will be free to all official members of the OFC.
It's the least I can do. |
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Location: NJ | NAMM? . . . . pictures? . . . . . . post? |
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Location: Warsaw, Indiana | Ok, for those of us ( I may be the only one) who basically love their Adamas and have played it for their own pleasure in their home and have not kept up with the evolution of the Ovation line ( run on sentence); it appears the the "Q" from the show was a solid body and the the Adamas Q will be a composite acoustic. With this said it appears that the CA has beat Ovation to the punch and although they are the new guy on the block and will be fighting against the established names, this is exactly the same position that Ovation was in when they started. I am in the orthopedic industry and new ideas are fine, however, it is the first one out of the gate that establishes the bench mark and everyone else becomes the followers. In marketing timing is everything. Ovation benchmarked the bowl and it may well be that Ca will be the benchmark for acoustic composites. |
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Location: SoCal | I don't understand. The Q that I saw was an acoustic, not a solid body. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As far as I know the "Q" is an all graphite hollow (not solid) body Acoustic/Electric guitar. |
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Location: Scotland | Unless I was hallucinating, which is possible, I'd confirm that the Q at NAMM was a deepbowl acoustic, and absolutely not a solidbody. |
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Location: SoCal | Hey Paul, it was a deep bowl acoustic. You weren't hallucinating. We hadn't even started consuming beer yet. |
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Location: NJ | I was there it was acoustic, in fact when I played it at the factory it was acoustic, and I was not hallucinating at least some of the time. |
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Namm show