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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Most Ovation Korean built guitars have a laminated top. I know this is a cheaper way to make guitars, but why is it on so many import models. I played a very inexpensive Washburn D-10 today that had a solid spruce top. The price of some of the Korean Ovations is much more than the Washburn, but they have a laminated top. Why is this? The Korean made Ovation Pinnacles have solid tops, and they are nice. Seems that alot of makers are going to solid tops on their inexpensive models. Will Ovation follow and offer more Celebrity models with solid tops?...Paul Hebert |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7251
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Maybe someone can refresh my memory, but there was mention about this during the tour. Something about that although the "solid tops" were more desireable, the laminates allowed for more consistancy in appearance and sound at a lower cost. I don't remember the exact comment, so I hope someone else does. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | I haven't went out and looked at these guitars or played them, but I have to comment that just being a "solid" piece of spruce etc. does not gaurantee good sound. The best made guitars have "selected" wood tops that have been proven as good sound producers. This was the skill of the luthiers that produced such guitars. I have heard laminated guitars that sound OK or better than some "solid" top mass production guitars. Also, some makers call laminates of the same wood "solid". It's what it sounds like that counts, and makes mail order risky if you can't play it before you buy it. The supply of good sounding spruce wood has always been limited. (Probably Paul T will destroy this theory by announcing that they have cloned the Martin 1940's spruce tree, and it is available by the trainload.)
Bailey |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7251
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Quality wood is getting rare and more expensive all the time. I'm really surprised that Ovation has not used the "less wood" idea to their advantage in advertising.
The music industry is going to suffer more than it already has, probably sooner than later. Actually, the music industry already took a massive hit 2 years ago when Yamaha Corporation announced that effective April 2001, production of the NS10M studio monitor speaker was to be discontinued, citing that the source of the wood pulp used in the woofer cone is no longer available. This was a speaker that was and still is used to produce most of the major albums released since 1987, probably the most sought after monitor made..... I now only use my NS10M's during the final mastering stages to make them last.
But back on track... I think the quality bar is going to have to be raised shortly on non-wood guitars, because they will be the future. Ovation has a HUGE headstart. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | Around how much does it cost to make an Adamas graphite top compare to a solid wood top?
Just wondering
Bradley |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | The adamas top is laminated.
so what do you think of the martin guitars made with particle board tops? |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | It's unfair to compare an Adamas top to an all wood laminate. The extremely high strength to weight ratio of carbon fibre means it's possible to make the Adama top very thin, but very stiff, that's why they sound so good.
It's perfectly possible to make good sounding guitars from laminates, but the price point of imports with solid tops, such as the Washburn mentioned earlier, is getting lower. Public perception & brand competition being what it is, Ovation may need to think about a solid top on some of the cheaper imports. But as Bailey said, a low grade spruce top may not sound as good or be as consistent and stable as a "good" laminate, i.e a ply of three thin pieces of spruce, not a couple of layers of crap with a spruce veneer.
The biggest downside to laminates is that they are almost impossible to repair if they get damaged. Solid wood will tend to crack along a grain-line if it gets a whack, and will usually close up perfectly. Laminates have 3 sets of grain-lines running in different directions and a whack tends to make the plys de-laminate & produces a very messy split. Removing bridges or fingerboards is a nightmare, as the bridge tries to lift of a layer or two of ply with it.
Al, the Martin Formica guitars are a joke, as are their Aluminum and grahite fronted guitars. They may say "Martin" on the headstock but they sound terrible.
Miles, I just don't get the NS10 thing. I know they are an industry standard reference point, but I can't stand to work with them, especially the early versions, where the tweeter was so savage you'd see tissue paper packed into the grille to tame them. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7251
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I don't mix to the NS10's either because I can't hear everything as clear as I do on the Events, however, I do check the final master with the NS10's because if anything is out of place, or out field, they will highlight the problem. The tweeter thing has certainly started some debates. I think they are just very room sensitive and have a very high top shelf. Most rooms, especially ones designed before heavy use of hi-def and surround just let the high-end fly and worry more about controlling the bottom end. I did not like my NS10's in the first location, but when I moved here and built the control properly, they sound fine. I just can't use them for mix because the color too much, but after you get it dialed in, they make a great reference for the master. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I've heard a lot of justifications for the ubiquitous nature of NS10's, but I've come to the conclusion that it's a worst-case senario. If a mix sounds OK on NS10's it'll probably work on anything, and I can see the logic in that, but I'd never use them as a primary reference point, industry standard or not, but i know a lot of people who do. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Well shoot
I guess they didn't clone the 40's Martin spruce tree. I was hoping to be proven wrong.
My dream was to find out that the Mission Beach all wood, very old, roller coaster in San Diego would be declared unsafe and found to be constructed from solid, extremely straight grain spruce, and I, because of my construction experience, would be chosen to demolition it for a low bid of $2 million, making a cool billion selling off the wood to Korea and Kosovo as they wipe the acoustic market with astounding guitars (or Ovation if they treat me right). |
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Why laminated tops?