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Location: Burbank | I noticed that some of you here prefer slot-head type head necks. I have never had one, could someone please tell why, and what the advantages are for having one. I know they are always on nylon string guitar, but I noticed they are on some old twelve strings as well. |
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Location: NJ | The slotted headstock brings the strings at a different angle to the tuners and most Adamas zealots will say is the cause for the better tone. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | As it was explained to me by Jim Rickard;
12 fret necks have slotted heads be they nylon or steel. They usually are wider at the nut than 14 fret necks.
14 fret necks have flat heads.
Now there are exceptions to this, most notably Nationals which had 14 slotted and I believe a few flat 12 fret models. I'm sure there are others too.
The Adamas aesthetics mostly came from an artist (Chuck McDouough, a very good one too) who didn't know the "tradition" and he liked the look of a slot head on the guitar and designed it that way. |
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Location: California | I too think that the slot-head does not have anything to do with better sound. I suspect the real reasons to better sound are as follows:
(1) better materials - bowl, top, etc.
(2) better bracing
(3) better workmanship & QA |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | A slot head causes the strings to take a sharper angle over the nut, thus placing more downward pressure on the nut and according to some people this improves the sound. Note that the early Ovations (not slot heads) had a steeper peghead angle which accomplished this same thing and leads many of us to believe that the old early shiny bowls sounded superior to later designs of the same model. But back to slotted headstocks, as was previously noted, most slot heads are 12 fret, which places the bridge closer to the tail of the guitar and in an area of the soundboard that is perhaps more lively. Another factor is that even though Ovation implemented the K-Bar neck, most of the slot head models still use the good old truss rod (Adamas slot head might be K-Bar, I'm not sure). But here again, there are those of use who believe that an Ovation with the truss rod sounds better than the K-Bar. So, basically lots of variables come into play here and it's not simply a matter of it being a slot head that makes it sound so good. As for me? I just like the way a slot head looks. Dave |
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Location: California | More downward force = better sound? if true, CWK2 would have said it. If slot-head did improve sound, every Ovation/Adamas would have been made that way.
FYI, Martin has a relatively low-end model with 12 frets, slot-head, solid spruce top, solid rosewood side/back, selling for around $1000 (MSRP$1600). Martin ain't no fool. If slot-head did improve sound, every Martin would have been made that way. Not on low-end model. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dave, I too like the look of Ovation slothead guitars. I think the slothead on my Pacemaker 12 string looks great. Only one problem, talk about a pain in the ass to change strings! But is does look cool! (lol)....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | A slothead is like Scotch, a learned obsession, I read where all good scotch is finished in used bourbon casks. If you equate bourbon with regular heads and Scotch with slot heads, you still don't have a good shot of whisky.
Bailey |
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Location: Scotland | Whether we're taking early Adamas or guitars in general, focusing on a single design feature as being the root of a sound is meaningless. A guitar's sound is the sum of it's parts and as Dave said, there's a lot of variables.
I'm sure we're all aware that a steep break angle over the saddle contributes to good tone. Similarly the extra tension over the nut caused by either a steep headstock angle or a slot-head will produce a subtle change in sound and feel. There is no question about that, it's basic mechanics. Whether the sound produced is "better" is a question of taste. There are several reasons that these features are not commonplace. Headstocks with steep angles are prone to breaks, especially if the neckrod adjusts at the nut. Slot headstocks are a little more complex & time consuming to produce & from a marketing point of veiw can appear "old fashioned" or too traditional on a contemporary design. I personally prefer the look of slot-headstock guitars. It's interesting to note that 2 prototypes we saw at the factory, an Adamas & a Folklore/Josh White-ish guitar, were 12-fret slot-heads
RSW, FYI, all Martin guitars were slot-heads until the introduction of the 14-fret OM model in the early 30's, from then on all subsequent 14 fret models went to a solid headstock. Their 12-fret guitars have always been, & still are slot-heads, regardless of price. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by RSW:
More downward force = better sound? if true, CWK2 would have said it.
Hey RSW, I'm not trying to be a smarty ass, but in fact CWK2 DID say it !!! Here's his post from March 2002 found using the search function.
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"The early necks had the standard tension rod adjustable at the nut. 14 degree peghead.
There were alot of headstock breaks so they went to a 7 degree peghead. This lowered the repair problems but it really took away from the sound I think."
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You make a good point about why arn't all Ovations slotheads if that makes them sound so good. I would guess it's a matter of cost and asthetics. I think a lot of people, especially young rockers, might think a slot head looks old fashioned.
Dave |
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Location: NJ | ". . . smarty ass . . ." ? ? ? |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | My dos centavos- speaking as an old rocker (chair included), I like the slothead. I will eventually add one to my collection. Yeah, Dave, didn't you just get that Pacemaker? Sweet 12-string, to be sure! |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dave, I like the look of the Ovation slothead guitars. Only one problem with them I can see. It sure is a pain in the ass to change the strings on my Pacemaker 12 string! But is sure sounds and looks great....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Pardon moi, Paul, I missed a beat. Or do both of you have Pacemakers? |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Seesquare, I got my 1981 Pacemaker from OFC member Trboy a few weeks ago. I love it! It is very loud even with light gauge strings. I think I will start the Pacemaker 12 string fan club. (lol)....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I've started a list of Ovation model #'s that are slotheads. Is there a comprehensive list available? It just makes it easier when I'm scanning auctions and classified listings. THANKS! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Guys, I admit that I am getting old but PLEASE - I ain't ready for no Pacemaker yet. My ticker is working just fine although other parts of my body could use a little "help" if you know what I mean. Back to SLOT HEAD guitars - Hey Paul, changing the strings on ANY 12 string is a pain in the butt. I'm not sure why you think slot heads are more difficult to change but that's maybe just a personal preference. Dave |
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Location: NJ | I "kinda" see where Paul's coming from.
My M.O. has always been to give the string two turns around the post before "threading the needle". Over the years of playing with my CBalladeer (and breaking strings at gigs as often as I do), I've gotten quite astute at changing strings "on the fly" (and pride myself on getting the string replaced/tuned before the song is over.
My Adamas SlotHead has the first slotted headstock I've ever owned and it takes a whole 'nother "mindset" to get those two turns around the peg when it's going 90 degrees from the direction you're used to. Also, I tend to take a lot more time and care when restringing it so that the excess on the wound strings don't scratch up the hand-carved walnut headstock (yes, I CAN be as vain as moodypi!). My Ultra-12 has a regular headstock, and as much of a pain in the ass as that is to re-string, I can't IMAGINE what'd it be like if it was slotted!!! |
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Location: SoCal | Seesquare:
Go to the reference section at this site. They've already beaten you to the comprehensive list of slotheads. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think what seesquare is talking about is a list of models that have slotted headstocks (not just the "slothead" adamas). By my quick recollection, I think the following models have slotted headstocks.
Josh White
Classical
Concert Classic
Contempory Folk Classic
Folklore
Folklore Deluxe
Balladeer Classic
Country Artist
Balladeer 12-string (the early shiny bowl one)
Pacemaker 12 string
Glen Campbell 12 string
Adamas pre production slothead
Collectors parlor '97
Any more? |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Vielen Dank, Dave! That gives me a good start. I should be able to cross-reference the model #'s from this list. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | OK, "trial balloon": So, if the model number is 6774; is that an Adamas, deep bowl, Folklore, with a slotted head? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | 6774 is a Folklore, mid-depth, cutaway, steel strings, 1 7/8 nut, 14 fret, SLOT HEAD.
FD-14 is a Folklore Deluxe, deep bowl, no cutaway, steel string, 1 7/8 nut, 12 fret, SLOT HEAD.
http://www.ovationguitars.com/?fa=detail&mid=27
Dave |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Jeez, you're good! Thanks again, Dave!! 3 months on special order, eh? May be like a Rolls-Royce; if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it! Guess I'll keep savin' up my aluminum cans a while longer. CHEERS! |
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Location: SoCal | Dave, you have got to get a life man.. |
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Location: Scotland | Moody, the words "pot" & "kettle" spring to mind here.
Dave, you missed the Custom Legend 12. |
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Location: SoCal | Model number 1158 and 1658.
Damn. Am I the pot, or the kettle? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Paul and Paul,
Is that true? CL12 came as a slothead? That must have been a beautiful guitar. See the photo below. I thought this standard peghead version was the first CL12, but I guess not.
Dave
http://www.fourthworldwebdesign.com/road2moab/custleg12.bmp |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | I don't know if slot heads sound better or not, but I will say one thing.
My Glen Campbell 12-string is a slot head and is the biggest pain in the NECK to change strings.
Thank you for letting me vent over 29 years of fustration.
Bradley |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dave is that Black Custom Legend 12 string yours? What a beautiful guitar! I love the Custom Legend, it is a classy guitar....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Sorry to say the the black CL12 is not mine.
Dave |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Great discussion, nice picture
I was so busy comparing Scotch to Bourbon that I almost missed the whole thing. The revelation I had after some Single Malt and Jack Daniels single barrel, was that the slotheads seem to have been some of the top of the line Ovations that I've been touting for a collector's edition. I believe I can taste that Bourbon barrel in that Single Malt. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Hey Bradley,
I'd love to help you out with your fustration, Why don't you just give me your GC-12. I've had to put up with a Martin D12-20 for 30 years and I'm OK with the slots. I have pricked my fingers so many times on the un-wound strings while trying to remove them, that the scar tissue acts like thimbles now. I'm sure I could handle the GC. :) |
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Location: SoCal | When Ovation came out with the Custom Legend in (I'm guessing here) 1977, they also came out with a 12 string version, based upon the Pacemaker, which, naturally, had a slotted headstock. When the Kaman Bar went into production in about 1981, both the Legend and Custom Legend 12 strings went to longer necks (14 frets to the body) and solid headstocks.
My personal opinion is that the guitars became better at that point, with more bass. But sound is very subjective and there is no right or wrong answer. What your ears and other senses tell you is the right guitar for you, is the right guitar for you. You are never wrong with that judgment.
Bailey, about 25 years ago, my uncle and I decided to do a scotch taste test. We put together 3 brands of scotch, two of them premium and one that was called Lucky Scotch, bought at Gemco (old out of business discount store, like a Target or K Mart). We discovered that after the 4th glass, you couldn't tell the difference. The last of that Lucky Scotch was pretty damned good! |
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Location: NJ | ". . .We discovered that after the 4th glass, you couldn't tell the difference . . ."
CORRECTION:
". . .We discovered that after the 4th glass, we just didn't give a shit . . ." |
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Slot-head VS. Regular