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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I was in a music store and I played a few import, and American made Ovations. I got to talking to a guy there and we got on the subject of guitar bracing. Does Ovation use the same type of bracing patterns in the Korean made guitars as it does in the American made models? Does the Elite have a bracing pattern that is close to the one used in a Celebrity CS257? Thanks...Paul Hebert |
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Location: NJ | Korean guitars?
blasphemy!!!
Next you will tell us they were shallow bowl.
Heresy |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Is there anyway to ask a question in this group without getting a smart ass answer from Al? |
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Location: SoCal | Nope. |
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Location: Dallas | ....yeah....tell him yer gonna call his Parole Officer.... :p |
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Location: NJ | I'm on the lam |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Al the complete line is "I'm on the lamb, but I ain't no sheep" |
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Location: Parkersburg, WV | Paul H.
In the past I've pulled the back-access cover off of both my Adamas II and Celebrity Deluxe(-idle curiosity). They both have the nine braces running from the neck to the back, alternating long brace/short brace. A slight difference in lengths due to wood reinforcements under the top of the C. Deluxe. This bracing pattern may be common for all multihole Ovations including the Elites.
Patsbro |
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Location: California | Paul,
I really admire your relentless pursuit of truth in USA vs Korean & Deep vs Shallow. You got your Adamas 1687 when you were 18 years old (high school graduation present?). Though you are a rich kid, you seem to be very interested in low-end Ovation guitars. You asked this kind of questions time after time after time.
Though you play guitar in your church, your language does not show others that you are Christian. Please show Al some respect. He is the moderator of this message board.
God bless! |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | RSW, I am far from a rich kid. I worked to get that Adamas. I ask alot of guitar questions because I am asked alot of questions. As far as Al goes, respect is something that is earned. He seems to really need attention. It must not be fun being him. So RSW, get a few facts straight before you judge me ok......Paul Hebert |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Come on people now.
Smile on your brother.
Everybody get together.
Try to love one another, right now.
Hmmm, maybe I can turn that into a song. OK here is my philosophy of message boards:
1. Anyone can post any question or opinion that they like. If someone else does not like it they don't have to read it.
2. If someone asks a question that you think is stupid, don't answer it.
3. If you asked the question and don't like the answer, tough luck for you.
It's FREE (you get what you pay for) and it's FUN (as long as we all get along). In my humble opinion - Paul asks questions because he wants to know the answer. Nothing wrong with that. Al sometimes comes off as a smart ass because he's ... never mind. Seriously Al is a standup guy and works hard to support this site and we all should appreciate him, even if we don't agree with him 100% of the time.
Dave |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | AMEN!!! BROTHER DAVE,
That said lets everyone get along and discuss Ovations..............
...........And Al & Paul - GO TO YOUR ROOMS!!(And play your Ovations :D )
Mike :cool: |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | RSW, first let me say I really can't believe you would come in here an call me a rich boy. My Adamas was a dream I went after, and I am thankful that I could get it. Yes I am a music minister. That allows me to play in front of thousands of people every weekend. And for that,I am grateful also. But I am most thankful that my position allows me to be in contact with children who are interested in music. I can't tell you how many kids (and parents) have asked me about my Adamas. I also teach guitar lessons to alot of these kids. And when their parents ask me what type of guitar to get them, I steer them towards Ovation. And as the guy at the local music store has told me, I have sold quite a few guitars for Ovation. That is why I ask questions about the Ovation Celebrity series. So just because I have an Adamas I can't ask questions about other Ovation guitars? Also, you say I ask alot of questions. Is there a limit in this group to how many questions one can ask? I have really enjoyed this fan club. I think it is a great place to learn about our favorite guitars. I don't like for my questions to be made fun of. This is a tough time in my life. I have been fighting cancer for two years now, and my guitar as well as this club have helped me through some tough times. I don't want to fight here, but I do want to learn. I am asked guitar questions all the time, and I have been able to answer them because of this club. I hope to continue....Paul Hebert |
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Location: NJ | Paul
Sorry to hear of your cancer. My wife is a survivor along with my mom. It took my father in law and my favorite aunt. With proper medication, treatment, positive attitude and faith you can conquer it.
I am sorry I offend you. It happens. My wife, who is the nearest a saint I will ever know, describes me as nononsense and gruff. Maybe that is so.
This is only the internet and you should not take anything here personally, although I know at times it is hard to do.
Your relentless disdain for the import line, and shallow bowl guitars is evident in your posts, yet you tend to keep rehashing some of the same issues. For you this is a quest for knowledge, for me it is an opportunity for some friendly ribbing. If I may be so bold to say this, you have lost some credibility with some of your inconsistent viewpoints.
I will tell you that your evaluation of me is all wrong. I do not crave attention I run from it. You really have no clue about me. So be it. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Al, I don't recall that I have that strong a negative feeling about the import line. Yes indeed I do think that MOB thing is horrible. I don't recall putting down the other import guitars. But the MOB......yes guilty as charged!....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | One more thing. Disdain for shallow bowls remains quite high! (lol)....Paul Hebert |
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Location: California | Paul, sorry to hear of your cancer. Being sick does not give you all the rights to do anything you like, however. Frankly, I could not believe a CHILDREN minister would call other people smart ass, damn this & that. Which church do you go to? What kind of religion? Do you use this kind of language in front of the kids?
If you really kept on getting questions about Ovation from your friends, why didn't you introduce them to this wonderful place & let them ask the questions instead?
Al seems to be quite patient & polite. He apologized to you even though he was insulted. Maybe he should be the minister instead. |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Paul,
Don't reply!....Just let it slide........
Mike :mad: |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | RSW, there you go again. If you ask Al he can tell you about the email I sent him the other day apologizing for anything I might have said to offend him. He just apologized to me for anything he might have said. Who are you anyway? First you call me a "rich kid" when you no nothing about me. Then you judge my character. What I say in this club I don't say to a bunch of kids. I am so sorry I am not as perfect as you. Why don't you look in the mirror for a change. Or better yet just go away!....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | To late Trboy, this is one idiot that I will respond to!....Paul Hebert |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Hey Patsbro,
Thanks for your answer to the original question.
You mentioned that the C.Deluxe has "extra" wood reinforcements that the Elites do not. What type and Where/Why???
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Mike :cool: |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Yes Patsbro, thanks for answering the question....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Parkersburg, WV | TrBoy
The reinforcements are two small plywood pieces, about 1/2 inches thick - 1 inch square. They are sandwiched between the adjusting screw for the K-Bar. Guessing they are there to provide some support for the top and the lower end of the fretboard. I can't say if this is also on the Elite but its not present on my Adamas.
Patsbro |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Patsbro,
Thanks and sorry about calling your Adamas II a Elite (Oh no I've got the Adamas/Elite syndrome)
I guess I'll just have to pull the back-access cover off of my '93 collectors ELITE and poke my head in to see what kind of bracin' I've got!!
I'll let you know!!
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Mike :cool: |
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Location: NJ | Paul
Do you know me? You have attacked me several times. But you made a judgement about me from what your percieve are negative comments made on an internet message board.
Now you turn around and complain about the same thing happening to you by someone else.
Step back and try to look at the situation from an objective viewpoint if you can.
You have to admit that it is a bit ironic and perhaps hypocritical that someone who is a minister and is involved in children's ministry and teaching would feel that it is acceptable to detach themselves from some behaviors that would appear to be less than moral or of the character that most would expect from a member of the ministry.
I am not making a judgement call here. I am only pointing out how the written word on a page can present itself in a manner in which it is totally unintended. The internet and particularly internet message boards and e mails are easy fodder for this.
I get 50-100 e mails a day. Some people write me long complicated e mails with many questions which require research and many points of information. Often I just answer these with phrases and short answers to at least give a response. I have had COUNTLESS people write me back calling me every name in the book because I did not take the time to write them a long letter in response. Sorry I don't have the time. If you want an apprasal for a guitar and send me $25 and details photos and descriptions I would be more than happy to do that. I have stopped answering the "what is my guitar worth?" e mails. so I guess that makes me evil.
What started as me making a JOKE about imports and shallow bowls has now turned a thread into personal attacks.
Paul I suggest you reread this thread from the beginning and figure out where it went astray and who sent it in that direction. |
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Location: Dallas | ....Christians are fallible folks as are Muslims & Hindus....we can all call somebody a SmartAssMaggottDumbShitHockeyPuck. If we do, please excuse us...we usually feel guilty & humble afterward (please see the aforementined posts regarding the friendly exchange of emauls). BTW - I don't think Al is a smartass...I just think Paul was in search of a straight answer. Being the Asshole that I am, I just chimed in for my own entertainment. Also, I'm offensive, course & gruff...even though I'm a Believer.... I have no qualms about knocking the dogshit outta some criminal dung beetle who leaves me no choice....or shooting between the running lights the same. Just because one is a Christian doesn't mean he is all kissy-face-lovey dovey all the time. After all, if I'm not mistaken, Peter took a sword and smote off the ear of a Roman, who came to seize Jesus, in the Garden of Gethsemene... As far as what The Bible has to say about my profession, refer to Romans 13:4-5. It is not pretty. Mr. Herbert's Faith should not be judged because he said "smart ass".
I have no freaking idea about neck braces. I have a vague understanding of set necks & bolt-in's. I was just.....inspired....by this post. Forgive me if I've offended anyone. I'm gonna put on some Black Sabbath, read some more Bible, wipe down my Glock, and have a beer......
KD Cain :eek: |
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Location: Dallas | ...Al...I know you work hard, buddy. Consider yourself appreciated.... This is a great site.
KD ;) |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Trboy, did you get a chance to look inside your 93 collectors guitar? My Adamas had a brace come lose years ago. Did you get the 93 new?...Paul Hebert |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Hey Paul,
I haven't looked yet (lazy) maybe tomorrow. Patsbro's got me curious as to whats inside - I've just never looked I guess it wasn't broke so I didn't need to go pokin' around :D
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I bought my '93 in '95 at a pawnshop (my second home) in dead mint condition!!! Although it sounds fantastic (2nd only to my Folklore) I don't play it that much because I've never been a fan of the satin finnished top! Pretty top but my arm sweats when I play and I don't want to stain it!(Plus I don't want it to stink :eek: )
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But I'll let you know.....Mike :cool: |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Mike, I was talking to Kim Keller on the phone about the Pacemaker 12 I got from you. He was telling me about the bracing and how well built those guitars are. I had the strings off today and took a mirror and looked inside. I believe the bracing is called the Ovation fan. I was impressed on how well that guitar is built. Kim said it was like a tank, and I believe him....Paul Hebert |
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Location: NJ | As a point of clarification, I would like to mention that I am not a minister or priest of any kind and although I did go to Catholic school for 12 years (and for some that is reason enough to hate me) I have not been to seminary or studied for the priesthood in any way.
Any references or inplications that this website is a secret "Church of the Holy Roundback: is purely fictional and unfounded.
On second thought maybe we should make this a secret society like the "illuminati" complete with secret ceremonies, decoder rings and our own personal supply of binary resin! |
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Location: SoCal | Al:
You do Al better than any Al I've ever known or heard of (except maybe Al Borland).
I'm up for decoder rings. |
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Location: Parkersburg, WV | Al,
I also managed to survive 12 years of Catholic school hopefully unscarred. It's amazing that when your are nine, those nuns look ten feet tall. Years later they've become much smaller, somewhat frail, yet still scare me like nothing else!
Patsbro |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | Looking through all the posts on this particular topic, I find a common thread here that I have seen in a few other topics of discussion. The problem I keep seeing popping up, rearing its ugly head, and getting unpopular attention, is the written word. Even though there are the nice little emoticons here for us to use, somehow peoples intentions get misunderstood. Having my start on BBS's many years ago, and moving up to the internet when teh web did not exist, I have found that when you know the person well it is easy to tell when they are just being a little gruff, or just having a little fun with the written word. One thing that seems to happen here is because many of us do not know the personalities behind the names, we tend to take some things too seriously. It may be a simple bashing of deep bowl vs shallow bowl, Korean vs US made, Ovation vs all other guitar makers, etc. When I have posted a question and either did not get an answer, or felt rebuffed by the comments that came back, I usually choose to just ignore them and move on. I have found this group to have a lot of very useful information on Ovations, no matter where they were made, or what model they are. I sill love my Balladeer for the beautiful sound that it makes, deep bowl, no cutaway, but I still like the electronics on it. Some people differ. I have seen some (what seemed to me) to be some pretty dumb questions here. I am suer that I have made a few pretty dumb posts along the way. However, I keep coming back to the group because of the commaraderie that is here. Everyone rallies around Ovation in one way or another. Being out at sea for the last nine months has made it difficult for me to take part as often as I wish I could. However, in less than two weeks that will change. :) I look forward to showing my face here a little more often. For those that find the group offensive, tell them to join the Navy for a 20 year tour and meet some people that are guaranteed to offend everyone. :D
Hopefully everyone has settle down some now, ate crow as appropriate/needed, and we can all have fun playing our Ovations once again.
Chuck
In the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, rocking and rolling through a tropical depression, but still headed home! :cool: |
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Location: NJ | chuck
as it was so eloquently said in the movie This is Spinal Tap
"there are no stupid questions, just stupid people " |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Well I pulled the back access cover off the ole '93 and I'm happy to say that there are no little plywood pieces of bracing just the nine (5 long & 4 short) straight tapered braces. I also don't ever need to fear that the top will ever come off 'cause there is a nice bead of binary resin oozing out from around the edges on the inside rim(I wiped it off the outside!! :D )
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Since I had it out I figgered I'd play it for awhile! - MAN-O-MAN-O-MAN (O-MAN) did that geetar sound WONDERFUL!!!!! I'd forgotten how good it sounded 'cause I never played it much but that's gonna change! I've been mostly playing my nylon stringed ones lately - It seems like I've just got a NEW geetar!!
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Gotta go cut some access holes in the backs of my other geetars and see what kind of bracing they have!! ;)
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Mike :cool: |
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Location: NJ | mike
i would suggest a mirror first. |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Hey Al,
You think it would cut a better hole than this drywall circle cutter I've got? :rolleyes:
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Mike :cool: |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | I'm using a 1/2" Milwaukee D-handled drill to turn it with so if it "binds" I'm either going to be wound up like a spring or there's gonna be bits of Lyracord stuck in the walls :eek:
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Mike :cool: |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Hey Guys
I just lost another younger brother last week to a stroke, (not unexpected). Don't take little irritations too seriously, the final end is final and you can't apologize except through a medium which I sure don't believe in. I keep seeing a tendency to vent daily frustrations on the board when this should be an escape from daily irritations. I log on to shoot the s--t with a bunch of guys (gals) with some like interests that I couldn't find anywhere in my neighborhood or town, so why do any of us go beyond a little ribbing or joking that we all can take. If this board went away we all would be deprived of a very pleasant experience.
Bailey |
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Location: stow,ohio,usa | New Guys Turn!! Every board I go on, no matter what the subject, has some kind of argument start. I've come to believe it's because when we type, there is no "voice inflection", and it's easy to be misunderstood. Aside from that, I've been playing since 1964, and I've never had the urge to dig inside any of my guitars. Good thing, too. I can't even pound a nail straight. And I come from a family of carpenters!! So, personally, I only care about the sound, and playability. But, it is interesting to read what y'all do with yours. Kinda reminds me of Eddie Van Halen sanding down the arch-tops of 335's, and installing Harmony necks on them, just less extreme. Have fun. If any of you are in NE Ohio, and get together to jam, lemme know. Mike |
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Location: australia | hello guys. I've looked into this forum a couple of times now simply because I'm a proud owner of an old Celebrity. All I.ve seen so far is a lot of sledging from some of you, it aint good reading boys. I come from Australia and I was hoping to learn a bit more about my favourite guitar but I don't think it's going to happen here. Keep on sledging... |
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Location: NJ | jrb
you obviously have not read this forum too often |
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Location: australia | G,day Al, you right, I've only started checking this site out for a few weeks. So tell me, is all this sledging just a bit of fun or do we just not like each other? I would really like to hang around to see what I can pick up . |
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Location: NJ | jrb
if one post gives you that much of a problem I suggest you stay off the internet.
if you have honestly not found any good information here from the posts and doing seaches I will have to determine that this is not the place for you. |
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Location: Queens, NY | Come on, Al. Go easy on the new guy!
Hi, jrb and welcome on board.
If you ignore the "sledging" (must be an Aussie term), I think you'll find a wealth of information and people are generally helpful.
There are differences of opinion and things do get testy at times (this post in particular), but that's more the exception than the norm. |
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Location: australia | Thanks for the welcome Tony, as for Al kiss my arse. |
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Location: NJ | jrb
real nice.
we do not tolerate personal attacks here. and you may notice I am the moderator.
as they said in spinal tap
"there are no stupid questions just stupid people" |
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Korean model bracing