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Location: Phoenix AZ | I had the pleasure of having Paul Moody over to my house yesterday and as you can imagine we talked a lot about Ovations and played more than a few different models. Dave
http://www.fourthworldwebdesign.com/ebayphotos/DavePaul.JPG
http://www.fourthworldwebdesign.com/ebayphotos/THeads.JPG |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Nice pics guys! It's always great to see a face behind the name. I'm having a hard time remembering faces from the tour. Thanks for the post. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | GREAT to see you guys and your guitars in person, gives us members some idea of who the hell we are talking to. I wouldn't pay $300 an hour to either of those pickers, I guess that the PI is on my right, is that right? But who knows, if Al keeps bugging us, we may need a PI to calm him down.
Bailey :cool: |
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Location: NJ | PI's from CA are just not like the ones in Jersey.
Where's the leather?
Where's the cigarettes?
Where's the pistol?
Where's the "tude"?
Where's the flashy car?
Where's the hot bim?
God Bless New Jersey for keeping all our stereotypes in check. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Al, you failed to realize that there is a sub-category of PI's. These are the very speciality ones that you would hire to recover stolen or lost musical instruments, find the illusive dream guitar or dig up some dirt on instruments so obscure that most of us would question why even make the effort. The stereotype is not leather and cigarettes - it's a Hawaiian shirt and a brown molder guitar case. This is a very exclusive group and the cost of admission is a sub-100 OFC member number and a minimum 4 digit posting total. Plus a little experience in Private Investigation and the ability to rip off a lick here and there. Dave |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | Interesting chord you're playing. :D |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I call it your basic "F" chord. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | I want to take this moment and say that Dave Witko is a very nice person. We say and talked and played for a couple of hours on Saturday and then he came out to the church where I was playing Sunday nite.
In fact, everybody I've met on this board and been terrific (well, then there's Al).
When I went to Dave's, I took over my old Legend, which is strung Nashville (high string). He is a little paranoid tho'. When I left, he insisted on opening my case to make certain that his Folklore Deluxe wasn't in the case. Honest, Dave, I don't know how it got in there! And was that an "F" chord or an "F-U" chord?
Unless you've played one, you almost can't have any idea just what a wonderful guitar the F.D. really is. It may be one of the best guitars I've every played, and I'm going to start saving now to afford one. The only thing on it I would have done differently, is I would have put on multi layered wood binding on the body instead of whatever it is that was used. Having said that, I'll take one exactly the way it is. Just wonderful. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | What makes Pauls comments above very interesting, is that on this board we seem to go on and on about why can't Ovation make guitars like they "used to" - what ever that means. So Paul comes over and plays a whole bunch of older Ovations including Josh White, Adamas, deep shiny bowl Glen Campbell, shiny bowl Balladeer and Deluxe, etc. and what does he come away impressed by? The NEWEST model Ovation of the whole lot - The Folklore Deluxe. Isn't THAT interesting.
So why in the hell did Ovation only make 50 of these things, and even more puzzling than that - at least two of them are still new and unsold! I think what may have happened (just a guess) is that the factory guys did exactly what they set out to do - build an "old school" Ovation that had an acoustic sound that would knock the strings off anything wood topped that came before it. And boy did they succeed in my opinion and in the opinion of every single person that's seriously sat down and played my FD. But somehow the Marketing and Sales guys didn't position and promote it correctly. Who was the target buyer and how was it advertised? Seriously, the only way I stumbled on this guitar at ALL was looking at old Kaman press releases on-line. On top of that, it's almost a slap in the face that this guitar can be had for about $1300. If you put it in a room side by side with Martins and Taylors and put a $2500 price on it, plus advertised and positioned it properly I would bet many hundreds a year would easily sell. I was told by someone at the factory that this guitar is in big demand in Asia. Why is that? What does that market see that the US market does not?
This whole FD issue is one of the most puzzling things to me about Ovations these days. We on this board criticize the company for not making the kind of guitar that we think we want. But then when they do, and nobody buys it. I can't figure it out.
And I DID check Pauls case, just to be sure he wasn't taking a souvenior back to LA with him. By the way, the body binding is tortoise shell and matches the rosette. The wbwbw 5 ply would also look good.
Dave |
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Location: out there | It starts to become more clearerer.
The problem is not the factory but with the Marketing and Sales. They must not have a clue what guitars are supposed to be and were recruited off the Yugo sales lot After the INS chased all the good ones off. Guys, If you can't hear the music, get the Hell out of Dodge and let someone else in who can!
OK, maybe it's not the M&S guys but the guy who they report to who refuses them any budget and keeps total dominant control over his domaine of which he, of course doesn't understand.
Or maybe the problem is higher up? Or maybe there are more than one of these roadblockers in the way?
Whatever it is there clearly are some people in the way who need to GTFO and let people who understand guitars do what they do best.
Of course this is all just bitching cause we know it will never do any good. I feel better anyway. Now where did I leave my Folklore Delux? |
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Location: NJ | <>
that is simple because that is all they had orders for.
The guitar was introduced at the Namm show. That is the MAJOR place that guitars are ordered by dealers. It has to impress the dealer before it gets to the public. If the dealers do not order them then you will not see them plain and simple.
I think that the majority of Ovation delears are not interested in a "custom" guitar or a on off Ovation guitar yet. They buy their collector's edition each year (maybe) and the standard models that they can sell and are not interested in a guitar that is not in the catalog. It is hard to promote and sell.
The guitar FD is rather nice, It could have been better, and I think the guitars that you will see coming out of Ovation in the Next year or so will be better. Some of the prototypes I have played that have some improvements are great guitars and these improvements will come on regular models.
You can throw the blame on marketing if you wish, but I blame the overall perception that Ovation only has certain models and that's it. The superstore mentality that has a ton of celebrities and then 6 super shallow balladeers and one lonely Melissa adamas is part of the problem. Or the MF business plan where all models are listed with cheap prices but nothing is in stock since they have to order it just like the little guy BUT they have it out front with a super cheap price free case and free shipping which no only violates the MAP pricing but provides no incentive for the little shop to order any high end guitars that they will make small profits on since they have to compete with big boxes that don't even have the inventory.
The guitars are out there, they are just not easy to get to. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Al, I don't meanto throw undo blame on the marketing guys. In fact one of them actually had the 'nads to pick up a guitar and entertain this motley crew of OFC folks! Great people with great intentions. But it sounds like a vicious cycle -
Dealer only orders what he thinks he can sell
Factory only builds what is ordered
Stores only display what is available
Consumer only buys what store sells
on and on and on and in the end Ovation gets this reputation as a mass producer of middle of the road guitars in wild colors that are only really designed for playing live.
OK, maybe that's an overstatement. I assume every guitar maker follows this same routine. So how come Ovation shows up at NAMM with a Tangent and a Folklore Deluxe and the dealers only want the Tangent. But Taylor and Martin show up with traditional wood box high guitars that sound no better than the FD and the deals want THEM?
I'm glad you are impresed with some of the protos you have seen and hopefully many of theses features penetrate the Ovation line. But I'll say it again - in my opinion, the problem has nothing to do with the guitars themselves. Ovation builds some of the best stuff in the world - the problem is that most people don't know it, or don't believe it's true.
Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Ok, my two cents (or even less sense):
I think Ovation today (marketing), is fighting Ovation of 10 years ago (marketing). They positioned themselves as the acoustic electric guitar that could be played on stage. That was were they perceived the market to be (right or wrong, I won't second guess them).
But now, the question is, how to crack back into the "We build great sounding acoustic guitars that can be plugged in as well" market. Not easy to do.
And people like Paul T., who really and truly understand the difference between the two, say that a good acoustic guitar offstage is not necessarily going to be a good plugged in acoustic guitar on stage. This gives credense to what the marketing people have been up against.
But the reality of the situation is that a lot of performers are playing full size box guitars on stage, plugged in. A super shallow bowl may be better on stage to those who are truly knowledgable, but perception is all.
If the marketing people at Ovation want to change the perception of Ovation to a great unplugged guitar that can be plugged in, it's not going to happen tomorrow. It's going to take time and energy. From what Al says, they are moving in that direction. Keep in mind that this board has been around for about a year and a half. The marketing push is going to be a five to seven year push. If it happens sooner, be happy. At least Ovation is moving in the right direction.
By the way, I'm trying to figure out how to afford a new Folklore Deluxe. I played one, and I'm a believer. But first, my wife says new carpeting up stairs, pay off credit cards, etc. But at least now it's on the "To Do" list.
But what do I know? I'm just a small time thug who's been smacked in the head one too many times. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | The only way to break the "cycle" above is to somehow get Ovations in a position so that the first step of the cycle is "customer asks dealer for XX guitar." |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
And people like Paul T., who really and truly understand the difference between the two, say that a good acoustic guitar offstage is not necessarily going to be a good plugged in acoustic guitar on stage. This gives credense to what the marketing people have been up against.
But the reality of the situation is that a lot of performers are playing full size box guitars on stage, plugged in. A super shallow bowl may be better on stage to those who are truly knowledgable, but perception is all.
I've said on several occasisons that the things that make a realy good acoustic guitar inspiring to play are exactly the same things which make it difficult to amplify. (I'm talking at concert levels here, not a coffee house or open mic) That's not so say it can't be done, it just requires more than an onboard preamp and a cord. It requires clean, flat-response sound systems, high-quality, sophisticated, expensive processing, and most importantly, the expertise to use it. For many people (though I'm not one of them) an acceptable and much cheaper alternative is to compromise the acoustic performance of the guitar in order to get something that will work OK when amplified. |
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Location: NJ | ". . .<>
that is simple because that is all they had orders for.
The guitar was introduced at the Namm show. That is the MAJOR place that guitars are ordered by dealers. It has to impress the dealer before it gets to the public. If the dealers do not order them then you will not see them plain and simple. . ."
Measures 1.5 meters sq. (about 5'x5') by 8' tall.
(CAN be made with a little smaller footprint, but runs the risk of becoming "cramped").
Took about 15 mins. to design/render.
Could be built out of standard components.
Could be built onsite (in-booth) and rented for the duration of the show for about HALF the cost of flying one Marketing schlub out-of-town (not to mention lodging/meals).
. . . . and probably would've sold TWICE as many guitars as said schlub.
Next! . . . . |
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Location: Scotland | Cliff, nice idea, unfortuately a design like that is pretty much useless at sound isolation in a location as noisy as the main hall at Namm. Single panes of glass are about as good as an open window at stopping anything but HF soundwaves, double glazing is only slightly better. Sound isolation requires mass & rigidity, plus the box needs to be airtight which brings it's own set of problems. Taylor & Garrison took their stands a couple of floors up away from the noise of the main hall, which was a little better. Rainsong had a reasonably effective soundproof booth, but it was unbearable after a couple of minutes. |
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Location: NJ | It's not designed for total "isolation". Merely a bit of respite from the din of the show floor to hear yourself "think".
I did something similar a few years ago for Cakewalk and a couple other exhibitors at IMX (Internet Music Expo) in NYC with great success.
It's not designed to be soundPROOF, just a bit of a "quiet spot" within the booth.
"It's better'n nuttin" (which is my understanding about what they opted for). |
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Location: SoCal | At the January NAMN show I tried a FD and couldn't even hear it. An isolation booth of any type would have been appreciated. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | It's all well and good to come up with these ideas of booths and such, and they are quite plentiful at NAMM. Many folks have decent isolation booths, but remember... Ovation Guitars is just one little kerplink in the big bucket of things Kaman sells and at NAMM they are selling KAMAN Music Products... all of them. The vendor they are hoping to attract (assumption here) is one that can handle "the complete line" not just Ovation guitars, or Hamer guitars or LP, or Gretch, or Genz Benz, or Toca, or Takamine. Their focus is to show as many different products as possible in as little space as possible. To make it interesting they have artists sign autographs at an autograph booth, and they have a small stage set up for Matt Smith and friends.
Based on what I have seen there, I would like to see Kaman use a better format for the stage they set up for Matt and guests to play and the Celeb autograph station. I think if they combined those two small areas, to a more formal "stage" they could showcase more of the product line.
Keep in mind a LARGE number of the buyers are NOT musicians, or if they are, they only play one instrument and it may not be a guitar. Sure some do play, but most do not. They own stores, or worse, are just the guy or gal that buys for the store. Hearing the instrument means nothing to them. I know one of the largest Ovation distributers on the east coast, and I also know he knows a couple of "demo" riffs on guitar, that's all the guitar he plays... just enough to show a riff to a potential customer.
I still say, if enough customers asked for a certain guitar or any musical instrument often enough, the store would carry it, it's that simple.
Now I can feel the flames getting warm, but I have to ask this. Of this focused group of about 1500 avid Ovation fans we have here, how many have bought or attempted at least to buy an Elite T, Folklore Deluxe, or Acoustic Only Adamas? I added "attempted to buy" because of the limited number, of the Folklore making it difficult to buy if you wanted one. All THREE of these guitars are available LARGELY BECAUSE WE ASKED FOR THEM!!!!
Remember, these guitars came about when there were less than 1000 of us, closer to only 500 of us. I am not suggesting we all go out and buy new guitars. That is NOT my point. My point is that we are large enough now to represent the "buying community" and although I didn't agree at the begining, is seems Kaman knows exactly what they can sell. I think they can sell more, and I think there is an audience for a high-end (cost wise) guitars again from Ovation, but... they are doing fine without them, so maybe they should only bring out the "big kahuna" guitar when they need to and they don't "need" to yet.
People have inferred in posts about the future of Ovation... well it looks quite bright from a buisness sence. They are selling more product than ever, employing many fine folks in CT and I would guess the bottom line is growing nicely. They even make guitars based on the suggestions of a 'lil 'ol Fan Club, even when few of the folks who made the suggestions buy them. |
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Location: NJ | My point exactly, Paul!
You've had the opportunity to experience that particular guitar at both ends of the spectrum.
Had you been a dealer, would you've ordered it "sight unheard" right then and there? (Personally, I don't find the guitar visually "exciting", so I can see why most dealers panned it.) If you're attempting to regain some lost ground on a model who's strongest suit is it's natural acoustic SOUND, at least have provisions to let potential customers HEAR it! Some may argue ". . Well, Martin and/or Taylor didn't have 'listening rooms' . . ".
Fine. They're riding on the name and popularity that they have NOW, not the popularity that they had THEN!
Sorry guys, but the days of just "showing up" and watching the stuff fly off the shelves are LONG gone! Get out and SELL something!! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Taylor (I think it was Taylor) has a freaking niteclub/lounge setup. A stage that has non-stop artists from every corner of the spectrum, and a room with couches, peanuts and M&M's where you can just pick out a guitar and sit and noodle... but... Talyor or Martin mostly only sells guitars... so they can focus on that. By the way, the Fender area is much worse than the Kaman area. They are usually enclosed and have all their lines in one slightly partitioned room. You can barely speak let alone hear something play. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Personally, I'm just thrilled that my little post and a few pictures of Pauls visit generated so many responses ... including artist renderings. Dave |
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Location: NJ | That's what you get for posting pics of "a coupla' troublemakers". |
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Location: SoCal | I am not a "troublemaker". It just finds me.
But Cliff, you are 100% on track. At NAMM, the FD looked like a nice guitar. But I couldn't hear the sound. To sit down and play it and hear it, a whole different impression comes up. |
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Location: NJ | btw: "nice shirt". |
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Location: SoCal | Yeah, be sarcastic. But you can't see what's really important about that shirt. It's a L.A. Dodgers Hawwaiin shirt. Go Dodger Blue.
Ok, now get really sarcastic. I'm going to duck under my desk to avoid the incoming shots! |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I have the somewhat unique convenience of living close to the (allegedly) largest Gibson guitar IN THE WORLD. While I cannot refute that claim outright, I can say I got a personal tour of their "underground". They have entire rooms devoted to one model year of guitar copies, e.g., 1957 Les Pauls next to 1958 Les Pauls in the adjacent room. Now, admittedly, this begs the question, "Who are all these people buying all these esoteric instruments from a dealer in a comparatively small city in southeastern Washington state?! Simple, marketing and brand recognition, with the primary vehicle the internet, and guitar shows. These ain't no loss leaders, either. My tour guide casually hands me an exquisite Firebird copy to ogle and drool over, and I durn near fainted when he told me I could take it home for a paltry 12 grand!
Anyrate, simple supply and demand parameters. There will always be a portion of the manufacturing operation devoted to custom models and catering to the obsessed and affluent. Kamen is a business, ultimately directed by the bottom line on the ledger sheet. We, as devotees and, to a lesser extent, representing the buying public, can continue to provide valuable input to the R&D folks, but probably won't be swaying the accounting crew much. Kinda like, my opinion and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee. I can live with that. |
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Location: NJ | What sarcasm??!!
From Memorial Day till Labor Day, all I DO are Hawaiian shirts!! |
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Location: SoCal | The advantage of living in So Cal. From New Year's Day to New Year's Eve all I do are hawaiian shirts. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Sorry for the stereotype, but every time I see a hawaiian shirt all I can think of is Magnum PI. Is there a connection here? Paul? |
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Location: SoCal | Yeah, they copied that from me. |
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Location: NJ | cue the theme music....... |
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Location: SoCal | This whole thread has been a good discussion. I've learned that Ovation has stuff in the pipeline and to be patient. I just hope everybody here realizes that change in the market place takes time and effort. Can't be done overnight. |
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Location: Scotland | I do Hawaiian shirts too, right throughout our summer, which is July 1st to around the 9th. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Using what for your tan..."SPF 3"?! |
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Location: Scotland | No, I just rub myself liberally with instant coffee granules. |
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Location: SoCal | So much for trying to bring this back to guitar talk.... |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | As usual, marketing drives the train. As an example, compare Mickeysoft with Windoze 95 and IBM with OS/2. IBM had a much better product, but did not kow how to market it. Mickeysoft had a product that was inferior, but had a great marketing team. Mickeysoft spent millions in PR building all the hype, IBM spent very little. By the time IBM and its blue suits realized what was going on, it was too little too late. How much does Ovation spend on marketing? Billy Gates was/is good at copying other products, then buying out the competition, with a resulting 90% or greater market share. Ovation had a niche product, and was very good at marketing it at the time. Now everyone else has copied the acoustic/electric idea. The only thing Ovation has that is unique is the sound. That is not enough to get many peoples attention. They see the marketing that flender, flaylor and gibsung use, and go their way. Ovation needs to be driving their marketing team, getting the guitars out into the eye of the players and potential new players more. Ovation is still unique in their looks and sound, even though the others have copied their acoustic/electric idea. Looking through some of the web sites last night and seeing flenders and flaylors for $20,000 to over $50,000 just reinforces the idea that Ovation needs to have at least one very high end model, even if they only sell one or two a year, just to show that they are still a major player in the market.
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hi Chuck,
You hit the nail on the head... but... I will play "devils advocate" here... and ask why? Keep in mind that I agree with you, and just tossing in the other angle... If they are making enough money, and growing enough to keep on going and growing with the current market and current pace of new releases, why mess with a formula that works just because a few people would like to see some really high-end Ovations. As far as I know, they sell guitars as fast as they can make them. They have a beautiful facility with some highly skilled professionals working at a craft they enjoy and, based on how long some have opted to stay there, must be well taken care of. Why change any of that? |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Damn, you guys. I'm gonna have to come back tomorrow and catch up on this thread.
So, cliff, you rendered that with AutoCAD and Architectural Desktop? 3Dviz? Or what?
Hasta manana
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Chuck and everybody
I was a big OS-2 fan, and put a copy of it on my $6000 IBM PS70 portable with 6k of memory back in the early days, it was a complete OS-2 with all the bells and whistles that I ran with a dual boot mode and a copy of IBM's just purchased, and impressive, publishing program that integrated everything, graphics, fonts, and had a book feature that was perfect for publishing your own book. All of it died with the Windows emergance that all of us who had any insight in to the weaknesses in the DOS operating system knew would result in years of buggy, crashy, PC operation that has proven to have been experienced. Windows just can't get out from under the horrible limitations in Gate's invention. I also worked with DEC's OS-8 that Gate copied for DOS and it was a loser that had to be programmed in FORTRAN, Gates just changed it to BASIC, which all us serious programmers laughed at until a billion PC's were sold.
Cest La vie.
I watched a TV show of the Chieftan's called The Old Plank Road, and Vince Gill played a mandolin through what looked like a Sennheiser mike that sounded totally acoustic, maybe that's the way to show off acoustic's at a NAMM. Paul T can answqer this.
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | Paul Wag;
Good Eye!! Built with a customized (by us) version of AutoCAD200 utilizing our custom inventory of parts/components, and rendered in 3D Studio VIZ 3 using our own custom materials. |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Cool, Cliff! I'm a MicroStation user/support guy, myself. And I'm not much of a 3d person, allthough that's where I'd like to see all of our stuff go to.
Guitar stuff. It's going to be a long, long time (maybe when all three of my kids are out of the house...) before I could spend the dollars for a high end guitar. Instead of ordering a guitar I bought mine from a small local dealer who had it in stock (Legend 1867) and had it on sale and had lay-away. I looked at some other non-Ovation guitars, as I was shoppin a friend and bandmate just bought a brand new acoustic Fender (from Guitar Center), I'm not sure what model and what price. I played the Legend and liked it and could afford it. I get compliments about it all the time, for the sound, playability and looks. I'm going to start saving for a 12 string Legend or Elite, something good in my proce range. When the time comes and I can't find one locally I'll look up Al...
Anyway, the only marketing I knew of was this web site and the official Ovation web site and the guitars in the store...... |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | I think it is more that I would really like to see Ovation out in front where they belong as far as making guitars. There was a time when Ovation was much more prominent than they are now. I tend to refer to go with the more popular things rather than purchase from the underdog. That is not to say that the underdog is bad, just not as popular for whatever reason. People still look at Ovations as funny looking guitars. However, I prefer the great sound and playability over the round back looks.
Another part is not wanting Ovation to grow stagnant. They have come out with a few new guitars lately. I haven't been able to put my hands on one to see what they sound like. Too few places carry even part of the Ovation line. Out of the four music stores I went to this week, only GC carried Ovations. One other did have a used Collectors on the wall. It had a sign on it that said, "$350, must sell!" When I picked it up the guy behind the counter said that the sign on it was to get one of the other guys worried, just a joke. For $350 I would have bought it, sold my Balladeer, then went looking for a 12 string once again.
Of course the downside to Ovation moving up the ladder is that their older guitars become much more valuable than they are now, making it harder for people to keep them in circulation. I bought used because I was able to get a Balladeer instead of a new Celebrity. Nothing against the Celebrity line, I just prefer to get the best sound I can afford. I keep hoping to find that special bargain. There was an Elite 6868 that went for $280 on eBay last night. Maybe I will get lucky yet on a nice U.S. made 12 string.
Chuck |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "I would really like to see Ovation out in front where they belong as far as making guitars. "
You know, I guess that sums it up for most of us, and it may not be the Kaman goal. I ran into a similar situation with my fellow Victory mcy riders. In a converstaion with the head of marketing about a celeb I know who was interested in endorsing THEM!!!, he plainly told me that they are already are selling every bike they can make and were not interested in any further advertising or endorsement deals.
I don't think Kaman is getting stale yet, and certainly not to the market they sell too. If sales ever start to fall off, then I bet they are ready for a full-court-press campaign, but for now, why bother when everything they make is being sold and stuff is on order too. I don't know this to be true, but it seems to make some sence.
By the way... I also agree with the sentiments about OS2. It had the right stuff under the hood, and with the same marketing push as Microsoft we would all be better off today. I have had to deal with MAC in the past year, and it's no better than Windows and crashes just as much, it just recovers faster. If my program dies, the fact that I can just restart it (mac), or have to restart the machine(windows) is of no difference to me. If it crashed and I lost my work... my coffee break is plenty of time for the machine to restart.
On a slightly humorous note... my PDA is WIndows based and although it only takes about 10 seconds has to be reset once in awhile, but what got me was my WebTV. I have been using WebTV for 5 years at least. Never turned off the box, I always just turn off the TV. Never had a problem of any sort. When MS took over last year, the DAY they took over, I had to call customer support. Guess what... I had to enter a special code into it to make it....dunt-dunt-dah!!!!! REBOOT!!!! I never laughed so hard... |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 136
Location: Parkersburg, WV | This thread concerning marketing is interesting. I've always wondered what impact mail order has on the whole process. Maybe its better to cater to a handful of mail order houses selling thousands of units than to market a handful of guitars to a thousand individual shops. I imagine the goal of trying to have Ovations in every guitar shop in every town can't and won't be attempted. It would be curious to find out what percentage of product goes to mail order, what percentage goes to the "brick and mortar shops.
Patsbro |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Miles
OS-2 promised true multi-tasking that Unix already had. It was lost in the shuffle and we ended up with round robin assignment by idiots, the comparison is a big super market with one checkout that is assigned according to priority (Windows)(whoever decides priority) vs a supermarket with all the checkouts you need. No wonder any Windows system crashes, it's built in. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I still have a ibm ps/2 50z in my basement. REmember microchannel? it was the next best thing in computer design...guess no one else but ibm thought so.
btw I would love to get my information off of that computer. the monitor crapped out one day and I never looked back. |
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Meeting Of The Devoted
