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Location: UK | I've seen a few posts on the fourm suggesting eBay.
As a hobby I collect wristwatches - I also purchase a few on eBay now and then.
When you get to the higher end products itcan be quite a dangerous place with almost as many knockoffs as there are genuine items and often even the genuine sellers don't know what they're selling.
But as long as you know what you're buying etc etc.
Anyway, ovation.
What's stopping somebody taking a celebrity and replacing the label with that from a higher end model ? I mean after all, it's just a piece of paper which can be churned out on any computer printer.
Yes, I know the experts would see that it has the wrong dots or the wrong trim etc but we're not all experts.
Do any of you guys ever see this kind of thing on eBay ? |
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Location: Scotland | To anyone really familiar with Ovation the USA models are easy to distinguish from the imports. In most cases the differences can be spotted blindfold, while driving at speed in a Mazda RX7 with tinted windows. With some models a slightly more intensive look at some of the finer details will soon show the origin, regardless of what the label may say.
While deliberately re-labeling an import as a USA model would constitute fraud if proven, it's very common to see imports misrepresented on Ebay, either deliberately or because the seller doesn't know any better, as USA models. And of course Ebay's get out is Caveat Emptor. And this misrepresentation is true of a ton of products on ebay, not just Ovation, not even just musical instruments. |
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Location: UK | Thanks Paul,
We are talking about somebody possibly buying his first ovation rather than a regular of this forum.
I'd be very interested to hear more. Could you maybe give me a few pointers of things to look out for ? I mean if they could be spotted blindfold at speed in an RX 7 then you should be able to point at a few glaring differences between a celebrity and a a US built guitar ? |
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Location: Scotland | I could point out a ton of differences. Headstock profile, tuning machine layout, bridge shape, variations in inlay patterns, type of pickup, rosette style, preamp type, neck construction, fingerboard material, fingerboard extension shape, presence of or position of dots covering bridge bolts etc etc etc. It's getting a little harder to tell with the higher-end recent imports, but it's still possible to tell them apart visually if you know what to look for.
The thing is you need to do your research and know the key features of the USA models. Like you said in your first post, as long as you know what you're buying. When you buy watches you are armed with specialist knowledge undoubtedly gained over many years of collecting. Same applies to guitars. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "To anyone really familiar with Ovation the USA models are easy to distinguish from the imports."
That pretty much sums it up and probably plays into the negative perceptions many people hold with Ovation, because THEY can't tell the difference. |
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Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by IanS:
We are talking about somebody possibly buying his first ovation rather than a regular of this forum.
I'd be very interested to hear more. Could you maybe give me a few pointers of things to look out for? Until you learn the defining characteristics (and you will) your best bet is to just post a link - preferably a link with pictures - to a guitar you're interested in here on this board. You'll get good advice, and lot's of it. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Ian, that happened to me on my first ebay purchase. The Ovation didn't have a label and looked to me to be an Elite. After I "won" the auction, I found out that the lower end of the fretboard clearly signaled a Celebrity Deluxe. I should have found this board sooner. It wasn't a fraud issue, since the seller didn't say it was a USA model.
Like anything on ebay, I should have done my research. Happy ending was that I traded up for what I had into it, but the next owner knew it was a Celebrity Deluxe before he agreed to the trade. |
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Location: Shotley Bridge, Northern England | Ian
I'm no where near as well versed in Ovations and Celebs as some others here are, but, if you are after a USA made Ovation, I would suggest a few pointers:
Avoid fancy flamed and quilted topped-guitars; some USA 'O's have these, but the they tend to be Collector's guitars and will have the label inside to authenticate this.
Avoid guitars with dot inlays on the fretboard;
again not foolproof, but few USA made O's have these and lost of Celebs do.
As far as I know, no Celebrities have 5 piece necks; the stripes on the headstock end/rear and neck rear are easy to see in pictures. If the stripes are there, it's a USA guitar.
Check out the profile of the end of the fretboard, as Paul Templeman and Mark describe. Celebs have a double curve to this; USA Ovations generally have a smooth pointed extension over the soundboard if they have epaulettes; few Celebs have central soundholes.
Finally, and MOST importantly; check a pic of the model label (with the model number) pasted inside the guitar. Reputable sellers will post this. Cross reference this with the makers site (http://www.ovationguitars.com) and follow the menus through 'History' to 'Discontinued Items' (if the model doesn't appear in the current list) to check for sure.
There's loads of help and advice available here too. I've imported 5 Ovations from the USA; had my share of slippery sellers on eBay, but no problems telling Celebs from USA models. Owning a Celeb, albeit a good one, may have helped here. Post a picture here of any guitar that you are interested in for opinions if you are unsure or want opinions.
Good luck!
HW |
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Location: SoCal | Find a 1980's deep bowl Legend. They come up on the 'bay and go for about $400-$700..... |
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Location: UK | Stripes on the headstock and neck ? Anyone have a picture of that ? Thanks. |
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| Here ya go:
 
On some guitars they can also be seen from the front depending on the headstock facing (or lack thereof). |
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Location: UK | Thanks for that picture.
Is it just cosmetic or is there a functional benefit ? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by IanS:
Stripes on the headstock and neck ? Anyone have a picture of that ? Thanks. Here's a few that I stole from Elderly instruments...
1615
 
Artist
 
This is a new 2771LX...
 
But! The new Ultras have the same headstock skunk stripe, parts built in Korea, but they are 'assembled' in CT.
To just look at photos, go to Ovation Tribute, or Ovation Gallery, or the Gallery here or on the Ning New Site. |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Hillwalker:
Ian
If the stripes are there, it's a USA guitar.
Sadly, that's no longer an accurate indicator. |
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| Originally posted by IanS:
Thanks for that picture.
Is it just cosmetic or is there a functional benefit ? Functional - for stability. Differing woods (different expansion/contraction characteristics) laminated with alternating grain orientation provide much greater dimensional stability than a single piece of wood of the same size/shape. Think plywood - large panels are dimensionally stable (but not so good at vibration & therefore tone). That's why a solid top generally has better tone than a laminate top. But that doesn't matter for the neck, where dimensional stability is critical. |
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Location: Shotley Bridge, Northern England | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by Hillwalker:
Ian
If the stripes are there, it's a USA guitar.
Sadly, that's no longer an accurate indicator.
HW |
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| You're wide of the mark.
A 3 or 5 piece neck is inherently more stable than a single piece. The question these days is whether it is still necessary. The precision control of wood drying and cutting prior to manufacture, the developments in truss rod technology make it a mute point. Rick Hall told me that really these days it's a cosmetic/tradition thing as far as Os are concerned and is no longer structurally necessary.
But there are those of us who love our skunk stripes, the more and the wider the better.
What are you looking for in a US Ovation? I may be able to do you a deal. |
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| BTW - if you can be around Hebden Bridge on Monday lunchtime you could meet up with Andrea, jeff and me for lunch. And get a look at a couple of Adamii with a load of skunk stripes.......... |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by schroeder:
And get a look at a couple of Adamii with a load of skunk stripes.......... So now you and Jeff are calling yourselves Adamii? |
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| It was that or The Beatles and we figured that would never catch on.
BTW - weren't you the oldest of The Andrews Sisters in a previous existence? |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I think I recall being told that the stripes cover the groove in which the truss rod is placed. Then again, it could be hidden under the fret board. |
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| It is hidden under the fretboard - I don't think they were ever put in from the back. If you'll pardon the expression. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by schroeder:
Rick Hall told me that really these days it's a cosmetic/tradition thing as far as Os are concerned and is no longer structurally necessary.
But there are those of us who love our skunk stripes, the more and the wider the better. The functional reason for the V-twin engine was to fit two cylinders between your knees.
That design is no longer structurally necessary, nor technically superior...
But people still pay extra bucks for it anyway. :p :cool: |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by schroeder:
BTW - weren't you the oldest of The Andrews Sisters in a previous existence? Yes, I was LaVerne. Weren't you Shirlene, the sister no one talks about? |
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Location: Cicero, NY | lAAAdies...please... |
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Location: closely held secret | Oh, shut up, Maxene.... |
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Location: Cicero, NY | MOM!!! |
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Location: closely held secret | Little snitch. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Back on Topic... You mean Knock-Off like this one?
I believe this is a CC57 copy...
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but if you are gonna copy something, copy a Real O! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If you're gonna buy a plastic backed guitar with a plywood top you should at least get the real McCoy. Dave |
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Location: UK | But now you're going to tell us why you know it's a copy - and why specifically a copy of a cc57
Thanks |
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Location: closely held secret | Here's how we know it's a copy...
And here's why it's a copy of a CC57...
They were just too cheap to copy the OP20 preamp.
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by IanS:
But now you're going to tell us why you know it's a copy - and why specifically a copy of a cc57
Thanks This is a CC57
  
SSB, two-knob passive preamp, sez "Celebrity" on the headstock...
As far as imports go, mine was actually a nice guitar for what it was. Okay for acoustic practice, and played like an electric when plugged-in. And it took me an hour to track-down these photos.. :rolleyes:
In 20/20 hindsight, I'd give that guy his $150 back if I could have this guitar back.
[a CC057 is the one with the OP-20] |
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Location: closely held secret | You got me, Art... the extra '0' threw me. |
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Knockoffs ?