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Location: Central Oregon | I went & did something different last night.
My wife was in Bend the other evening at a mall picking up our Alaska trip pictures & saw a sign posted outside an empty room that said there was an "open to the public" music thing going on there every other Thursday evening. It said "acoustic only" so I thought what the hell, & took my Elite 12 & my Gibson over last night to see what was going on.
It turned out to be a lot of fun. Probably 25 people playing guitars, mandolins, fiddles, banjos & one little old lady that was pretty damn good on a washtub bass. They were playing bluegrass for the most part, with a little C/W & some fun gospel stuff.
I didn't know if my super shallow was going to be loud enough unplugged, but it turned out to be plenty loud, no problem at all. There was one other couple there with a new looking Celebrity that they traded back & forth, so I didn't have the only Ovation there. They both played mando & fiddle too, so they were trading off with it.
I sat next to a guy about 60ish with a flat top Gibson that looked to be about as old as my 175 (which a few of the guys were drooling on when I opened the case). He was quite good & a nice guy. I'm hoping to meet up with him for some one on one pickin' some time in the future. Most of the stuff we were playing was pretty basic & there was a lot of people using cheater bars. I think me & "the other guy" (didn't catch his name yet) could both have some real fun together without the rest of the folks.
I'm looking forward to going back in two weeks. I'll report back on how it goes next time.
Nils |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Nils
Good story, many times those kind of jams will lead to a lifetime of fun playing, good to see that our members are redy to jump into jamming situations and have fun. That's where the best music is made.
Bailey |
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Location: Scotland | What's a "cheater bar"? |
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Location: SoCal | capo? |
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Location: UK | Yeah, I noticed Jerry Douglas using one on his dobro in the new Alison Krauss+Union Station live concert DVD.
Nice to see "one of the greatest living musicians" (Alison's words of introduction which I heartily endorse) using a capo!
L |
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Location: Yerington,NV | Like Bailey said, Those jump-in jams are a blast,I get in em when i can.I've been a bass player for about 28years now. And NO...Im not that old. I started when i was 14. When I got my first "O" about 2 months ago I play it everyday.So.. I can only hope to find a jam session to sit in on. Sharpens the guitar skills.And god knows,I need help!
Have fun at the next one Nils!
F.Bailey |
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Location: Scotland | I'm playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but I'm very interested to know why would a capo be called a "cheater bar" |
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Location: Long Island, NY | I always thought a cheater bar was a pick up place that married men went to.... never saw any live music there though
Dave :D |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
I'm playing devil's advocate here somewhat, but I'm very interested to know why would a capo be called a "cheater bar"
that is because real musicians can tranpose and play in any key in any position without a capo. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Sometimes transposing a chord results in putting it in a position that does not result in the desired result. An example (which may get shot down by someone who is more a musican than a guitar player like me) is Don't Fear the Reaper which was originally written in Am needed to be played up one half step. This was done with a Capo on the first fret instead of transposing because the "riff" which is done using what would be an Am in the 1st position, and an integral part of the riff is droning "B". If you just transpose up to A#m ?? there is no way to achieve that drone note (now a C ??) throughout the entire riff which includes the next two chords of G# and F#.
But other than a few examples, I think the Capo just makes transposition easier. I don't think it's cheating, I think it's more like using the tools at hand. Is using a cordless drill cheating? Nope, just saves from having to run an extention chord. |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | Sometimes the sound a capo produces is different enough to be worthwhile. "Here Comes the Sun" comes to mind. |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by alpep:
that is because real musicians can tranpose and play in any key in any position without a capo.
Ok, here's a challenge. Pick a traditional bluegrass flatpicked fiddle tune. Your choice, but you must play it in Eb without a capo. I'll play it in D with the capo on the first fret. Guess which one will sound better? Technique & theory are one thing, musical snobbery is another. If someone learns half a dozen chords & uses a capo to play in the other keys then that may be considered "cheating" However if that person produces great music with his 6 chords & his capo, who cares if he cheats? The purpose of music is to elicit an emotional response in the listener, not prove how clever you are as a guitarist. Although it is possible to do both, the average listener doesn't care about the latter
Unlike a piano where the key of a piece of miusic has little to do with tonality & sound produced, the guitar has only 6 strings & the open strings produce only 5 notes. That means that certain keys which contain those notes sound a certain way and allow signature phrases to be played in a pleasing way. Certain musical styles are dependant on the sound produced by those keys. Which is why you don't find many Bluegrass, folk or country tunes written in Eb or Bb, and if a singer songwriter needs to be in G# to reach the high notes they'll play in G with a capo, simply because the guitar sounds better. In a recording situation there are several ways a capo can be used creatively. If a player uses open tunings a capo is essential. Partial capoing is a technique that virtually produces a whole new instrument.
I was hired to play slide on a session a few weeks ago. The song was in F, my slide tuning is open E. I retuned the guitar up a half-step so I could hit all my hot moves easily & didn't have to think too hard. Was that cheating? I don't care, I played a killer part & the guy who hired me was impressed & has re-booked me.
A capo can be a crutch if you allow it to be. It can also be a highly creative tool if you have the musical imagination to explore it's possibilities. Those that dismiss it as "cheating" need a rethink. |
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Location: Central Oregon | My dad taught me to play when I was a kid back in the mid fifties. After I'd learned the majority of the standard open chords he told me it was time to learn six string "barred" chords, otherwise I'd have to use a "cheater bar" (capo). I guess that's where I got the term. All he meant was that the capo took the place of your index finger for six string barred chords so it was possible to play up the neck without learning the other positions, so as far as he was concerned, it was a cheater bar. I guess I've always used the two terms synonymously, I never really gave it any thought until just now.
Obviously there are many other uses for a capo, but most of the folks the other night were using them for cheater bars, just like the old man told me. There were at least two people there that could apparently only play open G, C, & D7th. Some seemed to know only E,A & B 7th. I must add that several of the folks using them could play a fiddle & a mandolin as well as a guitar & there isn't a "cheater bar" in the world that would do me any good trying to play anything besides a guitar, so I'm not putting them down, it was merely an observation.
The guy sitting next to me knew his way around a guitar neck just fine, so I generally followed him for songs that I'd never played before. Trying to figure out what chords the capo users were playing took way too long.
As I posted the other day, I bought a Shubb "cheater bar" & I've been having fun with it trying different things, although I have trouble figuring out where I am when I have the thing clamped on the neck, it makes the dots be in the wrong places :)
I'm looking forward to the next time we play in Bend, what a kick :)
Nils |
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| Several weeks ago I was watching a taped program of the original Glen Campbell Goodtime Hour which was released by CMT last year. Although he is usually not seen using a capo, there was one number in which Glen quite capably used a capo.
If you have studied the musical career of Glen Campbell, I believe that you might classify him as a "real musician". The point is, sometimes a capo is the only means by which one achieves the sounds that he (she) desires. |
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Location: SoCal | Glen Campbell uses a capo whenever a tune calls for it. In the 60's he was pulling down a 6 figure income in the studios because he knew how to use a capo and get "ringing" chords in Eb, Ab, etc. And you couldn't "call" him a real musician. He flat out is a great guitarist.
I often use a capo when playing acoustic (and sometimes on electric), when playing with others to put me in a differnt place on the neck, to achieve a different sound. But I can play up and down the neck without one. How many people do you know who will grab an Eb chord at the third fret? But there are tunes that I play solo on the guitar (when I'm singing) that lay out better for my voice in the key of C#, Eb, or Ab. I'm going to use a capo to get to those keys.
And if I'm going to fingerpick in the key of F, I might capo at the 3rd fret and play with D chords, or capo on the 5th fret and play with C chords. It all depends on the sound I'm trying to achieve.
But a capo is just a tool, as Paul T. said, utilized to give you the sound you want. Using one doesn't make you more or less of a player. |
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Location: NJ | guys my post was satire. |
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Location: SoCal | Satire. That's an attempt at humor, right? |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I have noted that banjo players have a multiple cheating mode where they not only use a cheater but they hook the fifth string on a built in A hook. How vile a form of cheating is this, I say we force them to play natural A scales and end this plunge into degradation.
The other vile people are singers who sing in A flat just to embarrass the guitar players.
All this unnatural type pickin should be stopped before we find ourselves back to playing 120 bass accordians.
Bailey :eek: |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by alpep:
guys my post was satire.
I know & thankyou. Just wanted to dispel the "cheating" myth a little |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Sorry I missed the satire. Been around too many a-holes (two music teachers included) that believed that Capo's were cheaters. It usually comes from folks who can play chord in the book, transposed to any key, but can't play a tune by "listening" and must have the music.
LOL.. I just thought of something some of you may find amusing... Many years ago when in Alaska actually (gee that's come up a lot lately) they would fly band out to Adak to play. This one AirFarse band that came out played a variety of styles but had a guitar player from their orchestra and jazz groups I guess. He seemed to really know his way around the neck, but there was this oddness to how he sounded. Eventually I noticed... on Johny B. Goode... he was reading sheet music and tab. I didn't even know sheet music existed for that stuff. They told him to take a lead, and he had no idea what to do, cause it wasn't on the paper. |
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Location: Scotland | I have an aquaintance who is principle Violinist with a major UK orchestra. He also plays in a western swing band for fun. In the western swing band he has to work out & notate all his parts, and can't improvise solos around the changes. What he plays is stunning but he's stuck if he has do to anything on the fly. |
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Location: UK | While we're talking about capos - I have not bought one for maybe 10-15 years. Is my shubb still the best or has someone bought out something better?
BL |
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Location: Scotland | I think the fact you haven't had to buy another capo for 15 years answers your question. They've since brought out the Shubb deluxe, with the little roller thingy, but it's difficult to fix what ain't broke. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Like already Stated in the post-I believe Capos are often used based of your preference for a desired sound. True Someone who is well versed in the fretboard, could transpose it and play in the prefered Key, But the Capo just adds a diferent sound. I've seen many Guitarist in the studio Use a Capo for a desired Effect. I use Them on Occasion.(And I don't even profess to be A Great Guitarist)
It all comes down to desired sound.
In Addition to Cheater Bar, I've also heard it Called A Cheat Strap.
Is The Cheater Nickname a Fair Name for Capo's.
In my opinion, Probably not-But this terms Been used For God Knows How long-so If folks want to call it that-So be it-Doesn't bother me none!
Laugh and TheWorld Laughs with you! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Capo is a Cheater???? Hell, not only do I use a capo. But you should see what I can do with the "transpose" button on my synth. I don't need no stinkin' black keys ... Dave |
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Location: NJ | If using a capo makes me a "cheater" (and lumps me in in with such "hacks" as James Taylor and Ian Anderson), then I'm "Guity As Charged". |
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Location: Central Oregon | OK, I've explained where I got the damned term "cheater bar". I had no idea I would be so thourouly flamed for mentioning it. As far as I'm concerned it's a nickname, nothing more. I honestly meant nothing derogatory by it.
FYI, I can't read music, I can't read tab & so far I've found a CAPO to be an interesting gizmo, but more of a pain in the ass than it's worth, for me anyway.
For all you people that are apparently so goddammed offended by the term "cheater bar"- EXCUUUSE ME!
Nils |
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Location: NJ | Hey, I wasn't offended!
I'll openly ADMIT that I'm a "hack" guitar player.
I'm nothing more than a singer that TRIES to play guitar.
Using a capo just makes it easier for me to play difficult chord postions easier so that I can concentrate on singing. |
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Location: SoCal | Hey, it would be fairly safe to say that none of us is a Johnny Smith.
My personal belief is that the music rules, and the hell with trying to be technically correct all the time. If a capo helps me get the music that I'm looking for, out of the guitar, then damnit, I'll use a capo. There's no right or wrong here except among the seriously anal (and that does not describe anybody on this board -- this is one of the best group of posters I've run across anywhere!).
What's interesting is that we're getting such a diverse group of opinions, and nobody here is telling anybody else that they are wrong for what they believe and how they want to get their music out.
I like this place. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Nils,
I Don't think anyones intention was to Fire anyone up. Many of the members who responded to the post admitted to using Capos! I use them on occasion. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
I think it all started with the question about
"What's a Cheater bar?"
Everyone responded-then shared their thoughts about it.
Even our very own Al admitted that his comment was Sattire.
I personally love the sound of plaing open chords with a capo.
I don't think anyone was trying to upset you,..i personally wasn't.
It's really kind of neat to read the responses and see just how many of us use Capos when playing Guitar.As mentioned many of the great singer Songwriters that we have grown up admiring-Use Capos including James Taylor.
Never really thought about it till now.
So I thought the responses were just an informative look at Capos. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey Moody - quit painting such a rosie picture, will you? People will think we actually like each other around here. Anyone (except me) who uses a capo is a sick, mindless, fool. It's the musical equivalent of wearing elevator shoes. Now leave me alone while I get some real work done. Like counting the actual number of windings in my pickups. Dave |
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Location: Scotland | Nils, I'll take the rap for starting the capo thing in your "something different" topic, but it was not meant as "flaming" or intended to be derogatory towards you or anyone else (except those who actualy believe that a capo is a cheat) Re-read my posts, I was actualy defending & justifying the use of the capo & trying to put it's use into a valid musical context rather than have it dismissed as a tool exclusively for the musically inept. |
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Location: SoCal | Ok, I admit to be a sick mindless fool who is musically inept (hey, my 11 year old daughter will tell anybody who cares to listen, that about me).
Nils, nobody here flamed you, and I'm sorry you felt that way. You're an asset here, so don't give up on us. You want to know what it's like to get flamed, change your name to Al and start posting!
Just kidding Al.... |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | ...eer what's a CAPO??
Mike :D |
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Location: SoCal | Why hell Mike, it's a cheater bar. |
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Something different