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| On the Acoustic Guitar Magazine website someone stated that a salesman told them that his store was no longer going to carry Ovations due to quality issues. I responded that it sounded like salesman B.S. Has anyone heard of production line problems on new Ovations? I'm very impressed witht the quality I see when I play the American made models, and all I hear about is the high quality as well. Since I'm in the market for a new purchase, I'd like to know if any of you all out there have heard any info? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | In my opinion, USA Ovations are among the finest quality instruments you can buy. The salesman must be talking about the "other Ovations". Dave |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Having seen the way the Ovation made in Hartford are built, I can't believe a flawed one could ever leave the Factory. I'm sure it must have happened at some point, but I just find it so hard to believe. Not directly because of a particular process, but the whole process.
As example.. The bracing is put on the top, so there are several hands that look at that, then the top put onto the bowl, and that is another couple of hands, and then the binding. At each step, there is a chance to catch a flaw of the previous steps, several times over and it continues this way until the final testing which includes a couple of stops for actual quality control.
I don't think the majority of the buying, or the selling public for that matter realizes how much handwork is done on these guitars. And further it's not a "conveyor belt" operation either with time contraints. Each part is fitted properly, then placed on a rack for the next person to pick it up. I don't have verification, but it seems that if they need more guitars built, they hire more people, they don't just tell'em to "work faster."
I have heard so many Myths over the years about Ovation guitars it's laughable. I must say I believed many of the myths both good and bad until I went to the factory and witnessed the operation. |
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Location: NJ | I sold an Adamas on e bay. the customer after recieving the guitar and falling in love with it took it to a guitar store to be restrung. The person at the store told her the electronics were "ripped out" and the fingerboard was" full of cracks" He told her the guitar was unplayable and should be returned to me.
So I get the guitar back. The jack came loose from the preamp and I plugged it in and it played fine. the fingerboard cracks were grain lines.
Obviously this person wanted to sell a guitar and slammed the one I sold. Not a problem I got the return restocking fee BUT there are a ton of people out there that will slam a product they don't sell or can't make a profit on. What happens is they bait and switch for a different item. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Every Ovation I have owned has been first rate quality. I have learned much from this group, and from those who have been to the factory. Quality issues were never something that crossed my mind with an Ovation guitar. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | There seems to be an anti Ovation situation out there that manifests itself in undeserved attacks on the make. Way back, someone listed all these canards that they had seen in various web sites. There seems to be a vicious pleasure today in attacking something to enhance the attackers self centered asshole lack of ability and status by criticising something good. They then crawl unde their rock and suck their thumb and whine "I really, really showed them". Most of these slime are well depicted as Gollum in "The Two Towers", you can find them everywhere except where they might do some good.
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | The internet seems to allow people to get courage, and grow the big brass ones.
Most of the time when you meet someone in person they are a meek and mild mannered.
this does not apply to me, what you see is what you get. |
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Posts: 181
Location: North Carolina | I special-ordered a CE778 from Elderly in March and got it last April (took about 3 weeks). I absolutely love it and would not consider playing anything else at this time. However, there is a small QC issue with the guitar that I haven't had fixed yet. When I got the guitar, the 17th fret was coming out of the fretboard and had a very rough edge on it. The string would actually get hung up under the fret when I bent a note! Whenever I played a note on the 14th or 15th frets I could hear a "tinkle" where the string hit the raised fret. There is no authorized repair center near me and I paid a local guy $50 to redress the frets from the 12th up rather than send it back to CT or MI and not have the guitar for a while. He did a decent job but the problem remains. I have raised the action with 3 saddle shims which helps get the string off of the frets but I can still hear the "tinkle". I am now seriously considering contacting Kim Keller about the frets and possibly sending it for fixing and taking the chance that the ensuing withdrawals will be tolerable (I don't have any other guitars as I traded them in for the O). Anyway, I flat out love the CE778 but I am a bit disappointed in the "Friday-afternoon" fret job it got. I hope Kim and Ovation are cool about fixing it under warranty.
Franklin |
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| Many years ago I took lessons with a fantastic teacher in Ann Arbor, Michigan (a woman named Sandy who played blues - great guitarist). She freelanced out of a big shop that did lessons/sales/repairs. I mentioned to them that I was planning to buy my first Ovation. They badmouthed O's a lot, and even claimed that their repair department had found matchsticks glued inside new O's for support between the bracing and the top to compensate for warped bracing/tops.
Alina |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | I willsay, the quality of my USA O's are evident, and the lack therof in my Korean sisters is evident as well.
I can't believe allthat is wrong with my CS255. I love the way it sounds, but nothing short of a neck reset will allow it to be played above the 7th fret. I've had the nut adjusted down, it helped some. Had the bridge "tightened" down, but she had raised enough to crack the finish along the bridge and pullling it up 1/4 past and along the base of the bridge. Oh yea, the thing is like a year old.
CC-65 or whatever number it is (Celeb. 12 string) looks great, is structurally sound, easy to play, but has no low end whatsoever(plugged or unplugged).
On the positive side, My Legend sounds unbelievably deep and rich, and is easy to play (neck straight and strong)despite having major warping in the face, a crack in the base, and being 22 years old.
My Standard Balladeer looks and plays great, has wonderful acoustics (although it does not have the low end punch of my Legend).
Simply said, yes USA-O's are a great product... Korean models are suspect. My question is, WHY?! If I am putting my name on a product, I would want a certain level of quality as a baseline, regardless of the bottom line. If it is impossible to do, then perhaps Ovation should scratch their Korean division.
Burned once, shame on you, Burned twice, shame on me.... There will be no third time for this slow learner when it comes to "K-O's"
JMHO
Peace,
Norse(O.K.,I'll go have a cup of coffee now)man1 |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Norseman1:
USA-O's are a great product... Korean models are suspect. My question is, WHY?!
Simple, they cost a lot less. They are built to a certain price point and as a result have neither the materials, manufacturing techniques or quality control of the USA guitars. They are fine for the money and as good or better than imported competion of similar price, but as Al said, you can't pay for a VW & expect to get a Rolls Royce. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | I've played many different USA Ovation Models, Though I've only owned two myself. I've even played Celibrity Models on a couple occasions.
I have nothing but High Praise for Ovation Instruments- They are absolutely Great! I've not played a Bad one in the bunch. Soundwise The USA Models Do Sound Better-I simply cannot believe that The Factory would let a Bad one Out!
That's My two cents Worth! |
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Location: SoCal | There is confusion by the general public on the Ovation line...especially since the lower/mid-range guitar is what you see in the guitar store. And, all of the models look "purdy".
Advantage: newer or less experienced player buys an Ovation - nice looking guitar and low price.
Disadvantage: no incentive to move up to higher quality or his/her problems with the low end model sour Ovation's image.
I don't know if there is a quality control problem with off-shore Ovation products. No complaint if the neck isn't ebony or fine rosewood. Low end guitar will probably never need a re-fret anyway.
However, there is no excuse for a product with the company's primary logo to suffer from quality control problems, no matter what price the product is selling for (or where it was manufactured). An item selling for $300 with the same logo as an item selling for $2,400 - some people see it as a problem with the company, not the price.
Currently, there are some excellent archtops coming in from China. I have five of them - never paid over $295 on eBay or direct with the seller. Their list is higher but that is what I paid for them. Absolutely no problem. Excellent set-up and quality. A local guitar store in San Diego has a used one for $775.00. Far better guitarists than I am have been amazed. Not a high end Gibson but similar to the Ibanez jazz box that I bought years ago when I had a 335 - different, but still nice. Yes, I agree with anyone that they may be "dumped", to create a market and that the workers are paid low wages...however, that can be true of far-east countries. |
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Location: Netherlands | Hi,
it's very strange to read this topic, 'cause my experience so far is quite different.
We in the Netherlands don't have a dedicated distributor for our country, so we have to get Ovations thru a German distributor. In the netherlands, on 16.000.000 inhabitants there are 3 more or less decent ovation dealers. So, no one ever buys one (An Adamas SMT retails for about 2800 Euros, which is IMHO way to much for it).
Still, they seem to have a kind of magic aura, because when i took my Ultra out of it's case at gigs etc., everyone started to call oohs and aahs ('oh, it's an ovation'). Now i traded it in and bought the Adamas i get even more responses like this. Quality doesn't seem to be questionable for the people overhere. It's the price that matters...
Martin |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I really really hate to say this, but it seems MOST other countries are concerned about the "quality" of something more than the name that's on the package.
A lot of the negative press about Ovation is simply because it isn't Taylor or Martin and they don't have a long laundry list of current players.
If quality was more of a measure here, guitars like the solidbody Viper would have knocked every import and several USA made guitars off the shelf in its day. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Amen Brother-Preach it Rev. Miles!! |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | This is a good example of the confusion.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=2566184452
I contacted the seller and let him know that in fact, his guitar was NOT a USA Ovation and he has since made some additions to his description. He was under the impressions that "Ovation" meant USA. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | "All Celebrity USA Guitar company, guitars are made in Korea"
Now I AM CONFUSED !!!!
Dave |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Why don't they just put Celebrity on the Celebrity headstocks, and Ovation on the USA made guitars? Don't they put Celbrity on the Korean made mandolins? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | POP-Phhhhhhht rrrrrrrrrip
The sound of a can of worms opening. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Korean made Applause mandos say "Applause" on the headstock. Korean made Celebrity mandos say "Ovation".
Hey, here's a novel idea. Why don't they get rid of the headstock logos and just put the country of origin in big bold letters on the headstock.
It's a big can of worms (great sound-bite, Miles!). Not all Korean made instruments are bad and not all USA made instruments are good. It just gets frustrating that to some extent I feel the average consumer is getting somewhat duped into thinking he is getting something better than he is, and at the same time the high end buyer is getting rediculed for playing (God forbid) Ovations with all their "quality problems" and "plastic" materials.
Dave |
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Location: San Francisco, CA | A college kid looked at my Custom Elite & said "You got a Celebrity." I was pissed.
On second thought, I think Ovation has done an excellent job in marketing. Ovation is making lots of money out of the low-end models. People who cannot afford the USA models can get the cheaper import models.
People complain about the quality problems of US-made Mazda & BMW. Should Mazda & BMW use different names? |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Throwing my one and a half cents worth in....my Korean-made CC01 Celebrity I bought a month ago is one of the finest acoustic guitars I have ever played....the set-up is excellent, the sound is outstanding. I sample more expensive guitars(including Martins and Taylors) regularly at our local Guitar Center, and I prefer my Celebrity. Maybe I got one of the best ones(also bought it from Elderly, and maybe their set-up is responsible)? |
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Location: Central Oregon | That first Korean 12 string I bought should have said "Celibasy" on the headstock. Compared to my Elite it wasn't worth a fuck.
In all fairness I have to say that I've since played several 6 string Celiba...err Celebrities & they were all pretty nice. I just happened to get one that went together with the neck set a little off. I don't think it would have ever gotten out of the USA factory.
/\/\/ |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Boy, Ralph brings up a good point that hits very close to home. I drive a US made BMW and it sucks in quality compared to the previous German one I had. And guess what? The Germans are really pissed off that the US ones are even called BMW's. Sound familiar? Dave |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dave my brother has a BMW 325i that is very well cared for. It has had weird problem after weird problem. It is German made, and drives great. But, he does not enjoy it due to all the strange problems with it. I guess there bad ones no matter where they are made. Ok back to guitars. I had a friends Ovation CU-147 Pinnacle here for awhile. It was a beautiful guitar. Solid spruce top, very nice neck, and it sounded great. It is Korean made, but very nice. |
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Location: Scotland | Hey Ralph, I was teaching microphone techniques to a bunch of students and was using my 78' Adamas as the sound source. One of the student's reports opened with something like "We placed the first pair of microphones in front of our lecturer's Applause guitar" Needless to say the little shit didn't get his degree. |
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Location: Australia | An Adamas refered to as an Applause !!!
Arghhhhh............
Paul I feel your pain.
PS, I would also say that the Applause headstock must rate as the ugliest ever in guitar history. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, he called your Adamas an applause? Man that would tick me off. Well just last week I used my new 2002 collectors at church, and the choir director asked me if I remember the guitar he had like mine. I though, wait that was a Celebrity CS-257. I told him no this is an American made Ovation, and it is not a Celebrity. He said, well you could have fooled me. I wanted to respond, but I had to remember I was in church! (LOL) |
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA | First, I have to say that I am a believer in Ovation as a quality manufacturer. I'm on my second Ovation A/E and enjoy them more than my Martin and Guild.
The inventory at local shops is typically well used and not suitable for purchase in my opinion. I've yet to go to a shop that had more than one in any given model, and their inventory is what you see hanging on the wall.
I did order a Custom Legend through Guitar Center and it was delivered damaged. The binding was chipped along several of the frets, the label was crooked (not a big deal, but?) and it was very dirty. There was a lot of dirt and grit in the battery compartment. I wasn't in as good of shape as the floor model. I didn't buy either.
I recently checked out a S771 at Guitar Center. This unit sounded great and played beautifully but it had a dark swirl in the grain, about an inch in diameter, like the beginning of a knot, on the lower bout, 2 inches below the bridge and about an inch toward the outside. Even from a distance, this looked like a blemish. I realize this is not a high-end model but I wonder why this top cleared QC.
I figure that slow sales and retailer feedback will eventually influence factory QC. Meanwhile, I am very careful to inspect before I buy, even if I feel that I can't live without the sound.
I notice that many of the experts on this site play Adamas or the older US Ovations. I think these are much different animals than the modern Balladeer (mid-line model). Maybe it is the stores that carry the lower end of the line that report QC problems. Eh? |
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Location: Tampa, Florida | Originally posted by Ralph:
[QB]A college kid looked at my Custom Elite & said "You got a Celebrity." I was pissed.
QB]
That's why I bought an "Adamas"! One of the guys who I looked up to as a player when I first started playing, who was an Ovation only kind of guy asked me if my Elite Special was a Celebrity. Its no Custom Elite, but hey! he should know better. My first Ovation was a celebrity and proudly said "Celebrity" on the headstock.
I think Ovation's sister company, Takamine, has put themselves in a similar confusing situation. People rip Takamines as crap and they are talking about G series guitars. Real (Japanese) Taks are some of the nicest guitars I have ever seen. |
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Location: Ct./ USA | I work at Ovation. I demand Quality from my self and co-workers. I check every neck I work on for high frets and defects that will some were down the line give someone heart burn. When I played I played Gibson acoustics.One night an Ovation showed up and I played it till my fingers bled. I now own an Adamas and the range of sound is OUT OF THIS WORLD.
I do not get to play all of the gutiars, as I carve and hone necks. I can not speak for all who work at Ovation. Quality is what will sell Ovation Gutiars, ie.. sound and craftsmanship. I also can not write of future instruments, but watch out ya all Ovation has some OUTSTANDING
Gutiars coming out!!! |
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Location: Tennessee | I was in my local guitar store last week, poking around the acoustic section while my son had his bass lesson. I played a few Taylors, and a Takamine with a list price of (gasp) $2995. There was nary an Ovation to be found, although they did have an Applause classical. None sounded even close to my Ovations (although some were real purdy).
I got into a discussion with the sales rep, and told him they ought to sell some Ovations. He first said "you either love them or you hate them" -- meaning he hates them. He then said, "we always have Ovation in here, but we can't keep them in stock". Apparently, when people play them against the Taylors, Gibsons, Takamines, and Guilds, they end up buying the Ovation. Here's the rub ... they don't stock any USA models, only Celebrities. And they get $800 bucks a pop for them. Imagine the stunned silence that would result if they actually had an Elite or a Custom Legend on the wall! |
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Location: Tampa, Florida | Sounds like they had that Tak priced about the same as those $800 (selling them for list) celebs. The only Tak in that range is a Nashville and they go on the street fr about $2K |
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Location: San Francisco, CA | Quality is better than ever, I suppose. Materials used are better than ever too. You get ebony fingerboard & bridge on regular Legend & Elite (used to be rosewood).
On the contrary, Taylor is having serious quality problems now, e.g. cracks on brand new $3-5k Taylor, ES preamp not work, cheap tuners, etc. I suspect they are trying to cut corners. |
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Location: Australia | Yep, I agree about Taylor with that horrible jagged joined on headstock, are they serious !
Factory setups on USA Ovations are the best in the industry. Apart from touching the odd nut slot with a file, I've never had to have any new O I've bought setup at all and I'm pretty fussy.
The new O's play better and sound better but I do prefer the look of the old ones best. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I just posted a Guitar player brief review of a new acoustic Slot Head Adamas, they did not state it in so many words as it was a brief review, but they seemed to think the manufacturing quality was worth the $2000+ price tag. They also praised the sound strongly, the con in the review was "a bit boomy on the low end", as a bluegrass player, that to me is a big pro.
Bailey |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Typical that the most common complaint about supershallow guitars is lack of low-end, but when Ovation produce a guitar designed to have a big sound some asshole complains that there's too much bass. |
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| Paul, I just love my shallow bowl Balladeer, so in looking for something new I'm thinking a mid-depth bowl model would make a nice tonal difference. The stores I go into seem to carry the celebrities and the few American made models are all shallow bowls. I'm having trouble finding a mid-depth bowl on an American-made model just to test out. |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | When My Ovation 1858 Elite 1 String arrived at my place of business a few Months back- The Setup was Extraordinary. I've since had the chance to play plugged in several times and practice unplugged at home. The Sound is Breathtaking!
The quality and workmanship on the Ovations i've owned(Always USA Models Mind You) Have always Supassed My Expectations.
The Only Korean Model I've played recently That I thought sounded pretty good was The Pinnacle Model.
The Confusion in The Celibrity and The USA Models Comes back to Marketing.
The Labels in the Korean Models Say Celebrity by Ovation amd Made in Korea.
But The Marketing between The Korean Versus The USA Models is a marketing Nightmare. |
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Quality Issues at Ovation?