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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Hey guys...
In the process of trying to sell my 1116-4 I am learning a LOT about inspecting guitars from all the questions that I am being asked in the emails I'm getting. I know that keeping a good crown on the frets helps intonation and keeps playability where it should be. Is there a rule of thumb on how much leveling is acceptable? Is there a rule on fret height where a recrown cannot be done and a refret is in order? I know there has to be enough material there to be able to shape the fret...I'm just not sure how much. On the unplayed frets near the soundhole the frets are approximately .040". Higher up on the neck the number is closer to .030".
I think this may get overlooked a lot on older guitars.
Thanks for the help...
Mark |
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Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 146
Location: Ct./ USA | The fine points of fretting/ honing is best by a tech in a repair facility/music store. Sounds to me like your fret job is all over the place. Think level......... .005 max gap under a straight edge from the first to the last fret.
best of luck..................... |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Thanks,
I went to my local music store today and got the name of a good tech in our area. I wasn't really looking to do anything myself...just trying to learn some things which I am sure the tech can help me with too. It's not really all over the place like I may have made it sound. It's pretty consistant from the 1st through the 12th frets. the frets closest to the soundhole though are very seldom used and it gave me an idea of how much wear there was on the others. I'll take it to the tech and see what he says.
thanks for the input,
mark |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | I just ended my auction on my guitar until I check with a good tech. I don't feel comfortable selling it yet until I know more. I've learned a lot here in short time (and from websites like frets.com). I wish I had known some of the things I do now before I bought it. It is still a very clean guitar and well worth a leveling and recrown or even refretting should it need it. But I would have asked more questions and maybe not given quite as much. Live and learn. I have a habit of doing things the expensive way for some reason :( . Damn those impulse buys! Oh well...if it needs something, so be it...then I can feel good about selling it or keep it an enjoy it.
thanks,
mark |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Mark, a good guitar is a good guitar regardless of the condition of the frets, as they are replaceable. Fret dressing is only a medium term fix. If a guitar is played regularly, especially in the first few positions then it will eventually get past the dressing stage & require a partial or total refret. This is when you have to decide whether 2-300 bucks on a pro refret is cost-effective or do you sell the guitar as-is and let someone else deal with it.
I think you may be being over-cautious. I don't think I've seen a nylon-string guitar in 25-odd years that has needed a refret. With nylon guitars the fret is harder than the string, so unlike steel-strings the frets wear the strings. It's always difficult to be sure without actually seeing the guitar, but I'd guess a light dress will do it. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Hi Paul,
Thanks for the input. You are right about me probably being overly cautious. I tend to be that way until I am confident in my knowledge of something. If someone asks (which they did) "how are the frets"...I want to be able to give them a straight answer. I'm a bit green yet so I thought I'd ask you guys. One of our members is interested in it and I just want to do him right if he decides to buy it. The same goes for anyone really. I had a guy email me and I could have BS'd him but I could tell by the questions he was asking that this probably wasn't the guitar for him....so I told him that. It's just how I am. If there is one thing I hate, it is someone trying to blow smoke up my ass.
I think getting to know a good tech in my area is a good idea anyway. They can be a good source of info and help if you need it. Hopefully you are right and it won't need much.
thanks again,
mark |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Mark:
Are you getting any buzzing on the strings? Are the frets noting true? If there are no obvious problems then the correct response to somebody asking about the frets is "Normal wear and tear on a guitar of this age. It plays great." I wouldn't worry too much about whether the frets are perfect. I've got guitars going back to 1968 (one going back to 1917), and the frets have never been an issue.
On the other hand, you're getting one heck of a good education on frets. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | On the other hand, you're getting one heck of a good education on frets.
You got that right! ;)
thanks guys...I appreciate it. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Boy do I feel like an idiot!
I brought my calipers home from work. What I was eyeballing (a mistake I won't make again) on a scale at around .030 was actually .035-.037. False alarm. I just got to looking into it when I got asked about their condition and saw a lot of pics of flat frets and wasn't sure how much was too much. Most of these pics though had grooves in them also from the steel strings. I screwed my auction up but I sure know a LOT more about frets than I did this morning.
I need a beer...
Mark |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Mark
I just have to say how good it is to hear somebody work through a question about an instrument like you have. It seems so many people will accept gossip and speculation as fact and never check it out as you have. The only question I have is "Do you ask for directions when you are lost?"
Joking aside, every time you, or anyone, goes through the effort to learn a little more about their instrument and discuss it on the board, there is more truth available to the rest of us.
Bailey |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Hey Bailey...
I really appreciate that ;) . I'm a technician by trade and I'm curious about how things are put together. Learning is one of those things that keeps things fun for me....keeps my mind young. Discussion boards have allowed me to learn about everything from guitars to my 1985 Mercedes 300D and meet a lot of cool people along the way. It's a great source of information and quite often...inspiration.
I grew up in a day when honesty and integrity didn't have a price tag on it. I just needed some more info before I felt right about selling it to a friend. I appreciate the help...
Mark |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Salem, NH | You know, I wish the Kaman people could take a hint from this discussion and start using stainless steel frets. For those of you who don't know, stainless steel frets are MUCH harder than the nickel alloys commonly used by most manufacturers today. I have a custom strat with a neck from Warmoth and it has stainless steel frets. I've been playing the &*$# out of this guitar for a year, and there is NO VISIBLE fret ware at all! You can't say that about any Ovation.
But back to your problem. I think as long as you tell the prospective buyers what your observations about the ware on the frets is, it's OK to sell as is. It's really an opinion about how low they can go before the frets need to be replaced. To me, on an acoustic guitar they can be pretty low before it's an issue, because I don't bend that much on the acoustic. If you bend alot, it's more comfortable with higher frets because your fingers are not pushing against the fingerboard. As long as you can play an acoustic all over the fretboard without buzzing, most players won't mind if the frets are pretty low. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Man, every one of you guys has added something different to this that was helpful....I just love this place! LOL>> :D |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | You might want to try this site, it appeared earlier on this board and is a great site. Fret Not in Virginia |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | Thanks Bailey....I bookmarked it. |
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Acceptable fret wear and recrowning