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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Had to drop a guitarist from our band yesterday afternoon. He didn't take it too well but he just wasn't up to scratch.
We've got a gig next week and he was making us sound even worse than what we are. For me, I find it hard to play in a band situation if I have to worry about the bloke next to me. Is he going to get it right, is he going to keep in time, etc etc.
What experiences have others had, and is there ever a nice way of telling a fellow musician that he or she is out of the band? |
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Location: Cicero, NY | I don't think there's ever a great way to tell someone they're not "good enough" (and that, by the way, can be subjective - maybe they're good enough but just "not right") but, if they're not "fitting in", the discussion has to be had. I was in a band where the bass player was just plain awful and, despite his being a good friend of everyone, we had to move him out. I'm not sure who felt worse. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I've had to do it a few times (and it's been done to me a few more times that that). Best not to say it's because he's "not good enough". Yeah that's open to interpretation. I just just go with stuff that can't be argued - you're out because you're polish, black, jewish, smell, gay, whatever. It'll sting for a moment, but the guy has no rebuttal other than to say "well, yeah I am and if you don't like it than I guess I don't belong here." That's it - swift and clean. If you say you've cut him because he wasn't good enough, he'll go on for months wondering "was I good enough or not? am I that bad?" You'll be second guessing as well. I know this sounds whack-o, but seriously it's the best way.
Dave |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Am I alone here when I say it's amazing that he's still alive? |
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Location: NJ | it's th'JerseyWay. |
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| Originally posted by Gallerinski:
If you say you've cut him because he wasn't good enough, he'll go on for months wondering "was I good enough or not? am I that bad?" The other thing too is that if you tell someone they aren't good enough and can't play worth a toss they might get angry and bring a human rights action against you..lol |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Once again, Witko is a sage. |
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Location: Michigan | The hardest thing our band had to do was having to get rid of our drummer Pete Best.It wasnt because of a lack of talent it was he did not fit in with the personality of what the band was, so we brought in Ringo :p GWB :D |
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Location: ms | We are phasing out a guy right now. Just taking it slow so no hurt feelings. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | You could use Gulfcoast's method. Gradually take him out of songs one by one "This song sounds better with just one guitar, how about you sit this one out" and then just do it with more and more songs. Stevie Nicks used to go and change clothes on songs that Fleetwood Mac didn't need her on. An Australian, Frankie J. Holden (Ol' 55) used to drink during the songs he wasn't needed on - made for an entertaining end to the evening. |
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Location: Chicago | I feel for ya.... If you have a "vision" and the others are just "strokin' it", busy with all sortsa a bullsh*t: you must speak the truth!
It becomes obvious when the band is no longer a priority: excuses, wives, jobs, problems etc....
The good news is that if YOU are inspired, there will be comrades available to join and fight!! |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Some good suggestions here, and Weaser, no..you're not alone :D
I suppose us Aussies aren't always known for our diplomacy but when we're halfway through a song and the guy stops and says to me..."what's a C sharp minor?"...well, there's no easy way of letting him down gently.
Who knows, we may have done him a favour and inspired him to go home and put some time into practising. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | No one has ever invited me to join a band, nor ever agreed to play in the same room. So this is not a problem for me. |
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Location: Melbourne Australia | Watto - do you have to find someone to replace him for your gig next weekend or will you do without and is he going to be there?? |
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Location: Melbourne Australia | Hey watto - I can play a C#m - not very well but at least I know what it is :p |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Hang on Oz. You've only got ONE guitarist in your band - YOU.
Are you telling me that you're not good enough to play with yourself.
(That doesn't sound quite right, but you know what I mean.) |
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| Just have everybody else quit and form another band. |
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Location: Chicago | In the 90s I was in a jazz-rock band where the trumpet player forgot to show half the time. We began auditioning other guys. He got the point fast. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Originally posted by muzza:
Hang on Oz. You've only got ONE guitarist in your band - YOU.
Are you telling me that you're not good enough to play with yourself.
(That doesn't sound quite right, but you know what I mean.) Some would say that I'm a master at playing with myself :eek:
But we've been looking for another guitarist for the past six months..just to fill the gaps. This guy (a mate of the bass player) showed up a month ago and said he wanted to play with us. So we gave him the music and told him to learn it.
He turned up 45 minutes late on Saturday, buggered around with his amp for another 15 and then went about demonstrating how much practise he HADN'T done.
We have left the door open for him if he's willing to put a bit of time and effort into it...but he won't be playing with us on Saturday night.
So you're right Muz..I am the only guitarist in the band. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by muzza:
Are you telling me that you're not good enough to play with yourself. Great Muzz, another image* I didn't want that I have to get out of my head. Out damn you out!
(*The last one was Iffy's ankle, pre-hospital) |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | A friend of mine was in a band. The leader wrote all the music, but couldn't play worth sh@t. So the bass and keyboards told him, he sucked, that they were kicking him out, but that they they were going to continue playing his music. The band died. |
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Location: Chicago | Before I had the good fortune of meeting Jeff Burns on this site, I "autditioned" a bunch of guys, hoping to find a partner to do the stuff we do now. The one tune that really made a difference was "Mediterranean Sundance" (fast tempo). They never came back or called.... Too bad. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Other possibilities;
"We've decided to go in a different direction, you go that way..."
"We want to play with other musicians..."
"We've met someone else, more...well...you know.."
Point at drummer; "He says it's either him or you and drummers are harder to find."
Or, don't tell him when the practices are or the gigs. |
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Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by fillhixx:
Or, don't tell him when the practices are or the gigs. Or, tell him where the practices are or the gigs, but not your practices or gigs. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I figure that if they haven't excused me by the time I've got the gear loaded into the car, I'm still invited back the next week. When you play with real pros, i.e., those who've played all their lives, majored in music in college, had their own jazz band in New Orleans, conduct symphonies, etc., I'm pretty much stretching it every week. Coming up on two years, though, and still hanging in there. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | By the way, there's no nice way of firing anyone. Best to do it on pay day or friday afternoon. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | There are actually several nice ways to fire people. I have fired people up, out of jobs they were no good at to something they were more qualified for but afraid to take the challenge.
One very creative, and marginally illegal practice, is to find a better job for the person and get them hired there. In the case of the musician and band in question, you might find a musical situation that was more appropriate for the person in question and point them in that direction. ("You seem to be more of a blues player and we're building a dance band. Maybe you want to see about joining The Bluesberry Jam Band, here's the leaders number." |
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Location: Utah | To do it with integrity, it seems that the firing should not be a surprise. It would be unfair to string someone along thinking that they are meeting the band's expectations and then to suddenly fire them. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | I think he was expecting it FlySig..and he took it pretty well, agreeing that he wasn't quite ready. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Damon needs a gig...travel might be prohibitive tho... |
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Location: Omaha, NE | I've had to fire more people over the years than I care to contemplate. Not just in bands (actually, that was the least of it).
My only advice is to be quick, clear and direct. Don't try to "soft sell" the news. Its hard news. You aren't going to make it easy. Don't try.
Assuming the circumstances are right, I prefer the "its a bad fit" story. Its not them, its not you, its just a bad fit. Saves face all the way around, and when you think about it, its almost always true. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | You say, "Now don't take it personal, and don't get mad, but F@#K YOU!" |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Beal, you remind me of my brother. I was visiting one day when the doorbell rang. In one constant move, he opened the door, yelled "F*#k off!" and slammed the door. I said "Who was that?" he said "(*name of religious group deleted*)".
Needless to say, he's not on their call back list. Much more efficient than my "No thankyou" but I'm thinking there must be some drawbacks to his method. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I have a gold plated skull with horns picked up in Japan in 1970. It was supposed to be a good luck charm or something though it's got a positively evil grin. When the door-to-door ministry comes to our stoop I just point it out and say, "I've got mine."
There have been a few exorcism circles around the property, but no one rings the bell any more. |
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Is there ever a nice way of doing this?