|
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Just got my Guitar Player and on page 124 is a review of a composite guitar. Why is it in the shape and form of a wood acoustic? Wood acoustics look the way they do because that is the only way you can bend wood for a guitar. DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO IMAGINATION, DO THEY HAVE NO SHAME?
Please comment without profanity, if posible. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bailey, I haven't seen it, but I know why it looks like that....people are often afraid of something new and to make it palatable, it is presented in the form of something familiar for their comfort. Even though it really doesn't matter what form they present it in and it would still work fine in another form.
Now sometimes, a company will go completely against the grain on this and make something new look NEW and COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in order to get attention. 1951 Fender Broadcaster (the original name for the Tele) anyone????
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 1986 Glen Campbell 12-string |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Baily ,what did the review say about the guitar and sound? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Bailey:
Wood acoustics look the way they do because that is the only way you can bend wood for a guitar.
I think the likes of Fred Carlson & William Eaton would beg to differ with that statement
http://www.beyondthetrees.com/gallery.html
http://www.roberto-venn.com/WilliamEaton.html |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I absolutely LOVE Carlson's "Oracle" guitar!
I read an article in AG about it.
It was built as a tribute to Michael Hedges, and has the sympathetic strings (like a sitar) running up THROUGH the neck!!! I think I also read that the pickup used in it is a duplicate of a custom-made pickup for Ravi Shankar's sitars.
BEAUTIFUL piece of work!!! Guy's a friggin' GENIUS!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Bailey, I take the opposite opinion about the CA Legacy guitar. They are made in my hometown, and I have toured the CA guitar factory. They in my opinion are some of the best sounding acoustic guitars out there. If you get a chance play one. As Sam can tell you, they are wonderful, well engineered guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I tried them out last year at NAMM. Not impressed at all. below the 5th fret was fine. Sounded good, or at least as good as guitars at half the price. Above the 5th fret, it lost all of it's projection and tone. I must say it did sound a little more "wood like" than I expected, but if I wanted that, I would just get a good guitar again for 1/2 the price. JMHO |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | I tried them last year at the Namm show with Miles. I was expecting so much more. I thought they were not worth their list price by any stretch of the imagination.
Nice guitars built well but did not have "it" |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Miles,Al
i certainly respect your opinion.I hope the venue at the Namm show is the right place to really listen properly to any guitar.After all it has been said many times that the Namm show is not really a good place to listen to a guitar.Now,I dont want to overstate these guitars because i dont think they sound better than a Collings,Goodall,Santa cruz and some Martins but they are better that most guitars in their price range.I have only tried two of these guitars and cannot speak for the one you played(guitars vary)..I tried the first one and it was very ,very good..In fact i went home and got my two favorite Ovations to compare..IMHO ,the CA was much better than my adamas slothead and my adamas woodtop guitar.The other four musicians in the room felt the same way that day.I hate saying this because i love my O's but the truth is the truth.I still love my Ovations and would never sell them,but they were not capable of producing the sound of the CA acoustic..
I want to read some other reviews of these guitars like guitar player magazine that Baily mentioned.Here are some other opinions..
"In my opinion, there is not a guitar on the market in this price range that will come anywhere close to the tone of a Legacy AE™. As a matter of fact, I would put it up against a lot of guitars in the $2500 to $3000 range." Jimmy Stewart - Brooks & Dunn
"The guitars attract a lot of attention. They play great, sound great, and are different. People are looking for something a bit different. Plus, the guitars are durable, so potential buyers feel better about spending $1400 when the guitar is tough as a tank." Grant Mazak - Mazak Music
"It's not as good as wood. It's better. The CA Legacy™ consistently sounds great. They are easy to play, ultra reliable, and virtually indestructible. " Randy Thomas - Grammy award-winning songwriter. (Butterfly Kisses)
"This guitar could drive a bluegrass band." George Gruhn
"I love my Legacy AE™ because for one, they sound much better than any other composite material guitar I've played. It actually sounds like wood. But the cherry on top is that they're impervious to weather changes. With Big Tent Revival and TAIT, it's totally normal to be playing an outdoor festival one afternoon, the next night be inside a cold theater, and the next night be in a hot club. The composite materials never shrink or expand allowing me to leave my guitar on stage all day, pick it up and it's still in tune! That takes a lot of worry from me and my tech. Plus, they really look cool!" Randy Williams - Big Tent Revival, TAIT
"This is a great bluegrass guitar." Tim Stafford - Blue Highway
Price Paid: US $1,299
Purchased from: N/A
Elderly
Features: 9
When I was looking for an acoustic guitar, I obviously wanted one that sounded great. I was willing to spend over 1,000 to get a nice sound and great quality. However, I didn't want something I couldn't take outside or something I'd have to adjust all the time. I wanted something I could take anywhere, whenever I wanted, never adjust it, and have it always sound great. CA was the obvious choice.
The guitar is the same as other Legacy CA Guitars--all carbon fiber with an ebony fretboard.
I chose the Legacy Enhanced Traditional.
The Enhanced Traditional has slightly more in the midrange than the Vintage Tailoring. Beautiful sound. Yes, it is loud.
The strings are springier due to the rigidity of carbon fiber. The neck feels great.
The look is cool, carbon fiber looks great. The soundhole rosette is a very cool design. However, the neck has no (fretboard top) inlays, which may be a downside for some people.
It doesn't sound identical to wood, but it does sound beautiful. And it's indestructable.
Sound: 10
The guitar can be used for strumming, light picking, etc. Lots of bluegrass people like it. I use it for contemporary folk and acoustic rock.
Like I said, the guitar is loud. It is, at the same time, mellow and full. The guitar is many things at once--a nice top end, tight bottom, and is very balanced.
The harder you strum, the louder it gets. Unlike wood, it doesn't get muddy. It's not just like wood, but close enough that you could easily fool someone. It's got its own great sound.
Action, Fit, & Finish: 9
The action is fixed--no need to adjust. It's low enough to be very comfortable, but not too low that it causes buzzing. The neck is just right. The frets are normal for acoustic guitars, but I prefer bigger frets (medium jumbo).
The guitar is finished nicely with no flaws. Carbon fiber has a cool 3-D look to it. It's radical, but if it's catching on with bluegrass players...
The fret edges are mostly smooth. Like I said, the strings are springier due to the rigidity of carbon fiber, so you might want to go a guage lighter. Some people say that the spring helps them play faster.
Reliability/Durability: 10
Carbon fiber is indestructable. Light and tough as can be. No question. Just read up on it. You could drop it in water or kick it.
Customer Support: 10
They respond very very quickly to all emails. I've emailed 3 times and gotten a long personalized response all 3 times.
Overall Rating: 10
I couldn't have gotten a better acoustic guitar. The great sound and stability is what sells me. I would never be able to buy anything but. The guitar makes me totally free. No more adjusting, no worries, and great sound. Really.
I've shown my guitar to 3 other players (bluegrass players all above 45 years old). Two of the three have already bought their own CA Guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Sam
the guitars were in their own room so it was easier to listen to them. They also amplified them.
Miles and I both commented where are the cheap models eveyone talks about ? The guitars we saw all had list prices of 2K and 2.5K.
Don't get me wrong I don't thing these guitars are as bad as Garrisons but I really did not think it had the projection of an ovation or its tonal range.
Just another opinion and we all know what they are like... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I think they sell for about $1350.00 with case in stores.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 43
| Fellas, allow me to express my modest opinion, as well. I used to own a CA Legacy acoustic/electric, and honestly I felt it was a very fine instrument for the price. Unplugged it produced a "woody" well balanced sound with excellent tonal characteristics. The sustain, presence and separation for an all- composite acoustic were more than excellent. Plugged in it was fine too, though I rarely plugged in. I wouldn't claim it was better than a Collings or a high-end Martin or else, but for $1399 it had it all. I am aware that many bluegrass players simply love them. I sold it several months later, not being able to recover more than $950. Well....that's for the record... :mad: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I am lucky in that I know some people who work for CA guitars. Like I said earlier, they are made here in Lafayette, Louisiana. I have seen these guitars being made, and I have been shown alot of the research that goes into them. For a 1400 dollar guitar they are incredible. These are the only guitars I have ever considered playing beside an Ovation. If fact before I even knew what a CA guitar was, I was in a music store buying some strings. I heard this very good guitarist playing a guitar with a beautiful full tone. That was the first time I saw a CA guitar. They have expanded to a bigger factory here now, and I plan on going to check it out. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Well
Maybe that strange Adamas guitar that we've been hearing about will somehow be modified to match the wonderful quality of these guitars. My comment on bending wood was more directed at the difficulty of producing a good sounding round back wood guitar, the round back wood mandolins were pretty but lacked tone. Would a DEEEEP bowl Adamas show this guitar the door, or is this the future of composite guitars and Ovation is on the wrong track?
Don't want to cause any controversy here
:D :p ;)
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Baily, what did the review of the Guitar Player say about the CA guitars? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | We must have been looking at different guitars because I distinctly recall the price being $3800 for one of the models. Now if that same model was available in the $900 to $1200 range, that's a different story. Like I and others said, it didn't sound bad. It didn't sound like the nearly $4K price we were qouted. Maybe others made that comment too and the price when actually released was much less. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Miles is correct. You cannot compare street prices to list prices.
When I see 2.5 or 3.5 I work it out and figure a street price. there is no way to tell if a dealer got a guitar as a promotion or something and is selling it for less you really need to have list price for comparison |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | The most popular model "the legacy"lists for around $2199 and they sell for what they call a players price of $1399.00 with case.
They have a new model called the X model that will be out soon(namm show)that is supposed to me an OM size and word is they sound very good as well..
Here is the one thing that really strikes me about these guitars aside from the wonderful sound they produce..Ovation for 38 years cannot seem to break into the traditional players market and the "good old boys" bluegrass players market..You have some guys like George Gruin who dislikes Ovation and does not even want them in his store..The CA guitars in just 5 years has broken thru the barriers and is selling well with Bluegrass players and many other traditional players who will not even look at an Ovation.
This is a pretty good thing for a young company that makes a all composite material guitars..It looks like they are not going to have to fight the uphill battle that us Ovation guys have been fighting for years..
Well,i'll stop here because im starting to sound like the CA guitars PR guy and i dont even own one. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Sam you bring up a very good and valid point. But trust me, (I can see Al's face now, "He's not gonna go there is he?"... well yes, Yes I am.)
Although many people make guitar purchases on their own taste/preference sences, most are not. For every person that walks into stores for months trying and listening to every guitar he can, at least 20 other people are buying what they are told they should buy. It's the same for dealers. The manufacturer approaches them and sais something like "We are increasing our ad campaign by $x's and predict to sell xxxxx, If you buy xxx to sell we can give you $xx.xx price and will even build you a sound room to display them.
Cudos to CA (and Taylor for that matter too) marketing for pulling off what they do.
However, I see CA cutting into the marketshare of Taylor and Martin before Ovation. Ovation is probably king of the numbers game (units, not dollars) and most people are looking to CA for a "traditional style" with modern technology.
FYI, I believe now that you mention it, the "X" Series is what we saw this summer. I'll make sure to check them out again.
Again, as we know, Ovation isn't for everyone. They don't try to be. If you want the traditional sound and look of a box style, for whatever reason, no matter how good an Ovation may sound technically, it's not for you. For me I can't bring myself to own any other Acoustic guitar. All acoustics I have tried (and recently I have been doing some trying) although shine in MANY area's, they can't physically pull off what a good round-back does. It just isn't physically possible as far as I can tell. Although most of the sound and tone comes from the top, the projection comes from the bowl. As I don't have the best "tone" ear when it comes to Acoustics, my test was the play a scale up and down the neck and finger pick up and down the neck. I look for the tonal consistancy and volume consistancy. If a Bar-F is not bascially they same volume and tonal consistancy on the first position as it is on the 13th position, I loose interest. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Miles I believe the X model from CA guitars is a smaller body guitar. I have not played that one. Although Dennie at CA guitars called me to go and try one out, I just didn't have the time to do so. I like the Legacy. That is the full body guitar. That guitar is awesome. I hope you get to try one soon. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | What's the link to their website???
tim |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 43
| Here is their website:
web page
Sam, how did you come up with a list price for the CA guitars?
They don't have a list price...they call it player price list: it's simply a single price...no hassle.
Copied from their web site:
Here is our Player Price List . If you do not have Adobe Acrobat, download it here.
Do you ever wonder why prices for guitars vary from dealer to dealer? Or, why that "big city" store can sell the same guitar for so much less? If the retail price for a guitar is $4000, why can a big dealer sell it for $2050?
There are a few answers to these questions but the big difference is that not all dealers are treated equally. Even today, in many stores, not all customers are treated equally either. Too much time and energy are wasted on deal shopping.
CA Guitars believes in treating everyone fairly. Our goal is to provide customers with the best sounding, best playing, most durable guitars they have ever played - and at a reasonable price. We also want to remove the haggle and hassle that is involved when buying a guitar. We want our dealers to treat every customer like they are their best customers. We call this our Player Pricing Policy. The "street" price for our guitars should be about the same in your hometown as the price in that big city far away.
Many other musical instrument manufacturers as well as other industries are beginning to adopt these fair pricing policies. We believe that this will translate to a fairer, more equitable marketplace for consumers and dealers alike.>
I don't know how they do it :confused: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Thanks for the link.... interesting guitars, but for my tastes, I prefer the warm richness of my 2001 Collector's RW... there is still something special about the wooden top guitars... kinda like comfort food... these CA guitars look cold to me...
They may sound fantastic, but appearance.....
tim |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 43
| Tim, I agree with you, I didn't like the appearance either. The sound was more than fine, but the looks...
It had a god feeling too, nice smooth neck.
I prefer the wood-top acoustics. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Going back to samova's comment about George Gruhn.....my wife and I were in Gruhn Guitars in Nashville in October and noted the relative lack of Ovation products there....they had a Patriot, a non-late-model Adamas, maybe a 15-year-old Legend, not much else. I suspected there might be a bias against Ovation there.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Shar, the list price came direct from the rep at CA guitars.I spoke with him on the phone and although they do not have list price(only players price)he told me that the list would be $2199 if they used list price.He had some other name for the list price which i cannot remember.
Miles, i totally agree that CA guitars will take away more business from Taylor,Martin,Larrivee and Rainsong than from Ovation but since the CA and Ovation have so much in common, they record well and are good sturdy stage guitars inevitably it will take away from Ovation some as well.
Miles, i also understand that constant conversation about other guitars like CA on the Ovation fan club is probably not what you and Al want to see and it might make you uncomfortable but i think it is healthy discussing and comparing other products on this site.
Roger, the bias towards Ovation at Gruins is huge.I have spoken to several salespeople there and they dont want ovations anywhere near their store..If there is an O at Gruins they basically got it dirt cheap in a trade.I bought two early shiny balladeers(67's) from them a few years ago and they did not even want bother getting a ladder to bring them down from the guitar hangers.They were laughing that anyone would even want to look at them..They told me streight out that they dont want these guitars in the store..However they have warmed up to the CA guitars nicely and speak highly of them..I think they sell them there.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Sam there was only one person who was asked to take a break from this board and he chose not to come back.
Open discussion is valuable about any brand and I don't want to censor comments BUT with that said I think you have to understand that my view about CA guitars comes from my first hand knowledge of them looking at them and playing them and my gazillion years involved in the guitar biz.
do you remember when watts were rated in Peak performance? and a true 50 watt stereo was rated at 200 watts. that is the impression I am getting with CA's pricing plan. Well 'if we had a list it would be 3K" but we don't we have a player's price so it is 1300. sorta like the saturn car tactic. so people don't want to believe they bought a 1300 guitar they want to believe they bought a 3K guitar. so you come up with some goofy pricing theme and you got it.
Sam one last point. You know Ovation's history better than I and you will have to admit that Ovation RULED the acoustic/electric market until basically the 90's. In the 70's and 80's I remember Martin saying if you want an electric don't buy one of our guitars there are others out there that do it better. with the new guitars release it seems like ovation is getting back to its roots and will absolutely get some more push.
In conclusion, when I played and looked at a CA I said to myself this is not 3K worth of a guitar. When I look at any model ovation and its list I can honestly say it is well worth the price. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | That would be a good looking guitar if I was a love struck manatee. Ugh.
/\/\/ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | OK
As requested, here's what they said ($1400 street)
"The Legacy doesn't replicate the sound of a fine wooden dreadnought. Instead it has a fresh compelling voice of it's own, which I'd describe as clear, immediate, and ringing.It's a hi-fi sound with pronounced, harmonious overtones and magnificant sustain. Boasting fulgent timbres, spot on intonation,flexible Fishman electronics,and awesome durability coupled with a very light body (which is also available in luscious metallic red, green, or silver), the Legacy will make an ideal touring flat-top, whether you're performing as a soloist or rocking out in a band."
WOW, "fulgent timbres..awesome durability..luscious mettallic red.."
Truly unbiased journalism of the sort to make publicist weep tears of pure commercialism. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | True story:
The morning of Dec. 26th, I'm walking from our tentsite to the men's showers and lavvy-loos in the campground. I'm just coming off of having an absolute perfect Christmas Day in KeyWest (and a night of goodly partaking of Myer's Rum) and having the time of my life. I'm walking past one of our neighbors' waterfront campsites - two couples of New Yawkers. The women are clearing the morning's dishes, the men getting their "toys" ready for the beach. The "bigger" of the two men is reaching behind his head struggling to pull up the zipper of the grey wetsuit he has just manage to squeeze into. His friend looks at him from across the tentsite, finshing the last dregs of his coffee cup and "sez":
". . 'ay Artie (pronounced "Ottie")! 'ya look like one o'dem fuggin' fiberglass manatees that hold up the friggin' MAILBOXES on d'highway!!! . ." (a "Florida thing").
I nearly shat myself laughing so hard!!! :D
Back to the CA's:
The main critique the majority of people have seems to be with the CA's overall acoustic sound. Anybody have any experience with it in a "live" situation? That'd probably be the only reason I'd even remotely consider one. How are the electronics? Are they proprietary or an after-market(Fishman?)? If they're capable of producing a "useable" live sound (that can be "seasoned" after-the-fact), then they might serve as a good "bar guitar" as you would not have to worry about banging up a really nice spruce (or Adamas) top while doing nightly battle with all those damn druken mic stands that wander around in the early AM hours. I'd consider a decent sounding (plugged in) guitar that all I had to really "worry" about was NOT snapping the neck off of. However, I wouldn't EVEN consider a "utility" guitar like that at ANY of the prices discussed thusfar. For that kind of money I could buy TWO Elite T's and have the same amount of "worry" (and have two guitars that I know sound nice "acoustically"). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Here are a few more reviews in case anyone is interested.I would like to hear from those of you going to the namm show how the X model sounds.
How significant is the X? According to the world's leading authority on guitars, George Gruhn, “It should be noted that there are some remarkable new products such as the new CA carbon graphite X model guitar with contours unlike any that can be achieved on a wood body acoustic guitar, but still offering a great acoustic sound.
George Gruhn, Gruhn Internet Newsletter, July
, 2003
CA Artist Bob Minner on Tim McGraw's NBC Special "Sing Me Home"
CA Guitars is proud to announce that CA Artist Bob Minner will be featured on Tim McGraw's NBC Special “Sing Me Home” airing Wednesday, November 27th on NBC. You will also see and hear multi-instrumentalist Dean Brown, also a CA endorser, playing his Legacy.
The McGraw Band is scheduled to make five seperate television appearances through the end of the year, with at least two of them being acoustic performances. Expect to hear and see many different CA instruments during these performances.
CA Guitars and Seattle's Experience Music Project
CA Guitars has delivered two Legacy AE™ composite acoustic guitars to be used at the Experience Music Project's totally interactive Sound Lab. This unique attraction allows EMP visitors to actually experiment with a variety of instruments from electric and acoustic guitars to keyboards, drums, and even mixing and sampling equipment.
EMP has many exciting things to say about CA Guitars, our instruments, and our innovative technology such as, "While other companies have previously experimented with cutting-edge materials, CA is the first to create a stable (and boldly attractive) acoustic guitar that also features a remarkably pleasing and quite natural tone”. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Sam
this sounds like all promo stuff from their website and that is fine BUT you know as well as I that it is all part of their marketing and not independent evaluations.
Hey we can quote Dave Mustaine and Lenny Kravitz as ovation users but what real purpose does it serve?? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6192
Location: Phoenix AZ | And in the mean time the Adamas Q ...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 43
| Alpep hi,
What's that suppose to mean????? :confused: :confused:
what is going on in this board? :confused: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I sure hope the LX guitars can bring Ovation guitars back to a higher status with acoustic players again....but with the "ok, well we'll review it, but we're not gonna like it(also called 'damning with faint praise')" type review they got from Acoustic Guitar this month on the 1777 Legend LX, it sure doesn't help! At least it did alert potential customers to its existence.....
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Dave, about the Q.In my opinion i dont think we will ever see a production model called the Q but hopefully from the many years of developement on the Q we will see some of the technology eventually find its way on to regular ovation production models..Hopefully a new Adamas with the Q technology for under $2000(wishful thinking). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | While the opinions, likes and dislikes of this obviously O positive board are educational and entertaining I find the issues around marketing and future products the most ineresting and the least answered.
Marketing: If Milli Vanilli had carried Ovations in their photo ops we would be considered trash. I am ever thankful that "Britny" doesn't play. Are We (Ovation USA) learning from the successes of AE when they are able to market a woodless high priced instrument that can generate such varied opinions?
Future Products: Why are we so out of the loop that we didn't see the LX series coming - or is the security of new efforts that secretive?
I am drawn to the Ovations not because of abundant superiority but more because of the WYSWYG (wassy-wig) factor. What You See is What You Get.
I want to see amazing things come out of the factory and I like to see them in the hands of honest, hard working Musician's that really use them. If we loose some market share because we don't rent enough ad space in a certain magazine I can live with that.
If you see that your subscribed rag goes flowery on a brand that they worship and they don't give ours the light of day - respond!
As for the mass market: People are sheep. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | People are sheep?? Except you?
Go back thru the archives. I think you'll see a lot of discussions on these topics, ie marketing, new products, Ovation as a plugged in guitar, Ovation as an acoustic guitar, etc. It's ground that has been covered many times. So this afternoon, make some nachos, get an ice cold long neck and enjoy the ride thru the archives.
I will say this about the points you raised. Ovation is moving in a direction that they haven't been moving in for 20 years -- namely making a better acoustic guitar, not just one that can be plugged in. The first sign we saw was the limited edition Folklore Deluxe. Then the 12 fret Adamas slothead (which received excellent reviews), and now the LX models and the Custom Legend reissue.
Ovation sells everything they make now, yet they are willing to move in new direction. Be patient. And enjoy the beer and nachos. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Moody,
I accept your gentle scorching as I am new to this board. I’ll interpret it to mean “Go back and do your homework son and come back when you know what you’re talking about”. I am still trying to figure out exactly which nerve I stepped on though.
I want to stay off the CA’s are ugly/CA’s are wonderful string and I was hoping to hear (read) more about Ovation’s direction.
Marketing: My reference to sheep is mainly pointed at the mass market in general. It is not the professionals and faithful specialists that will ensure the economy of any product line. It is the flock of first and second time buyers – hopefully looking at the experts to help mold their opinions. Yes, I am usually part of the flock. (sheepish grin, Have any of you ever tried to play a Telecoustic? Try the Barbie Glitter model!)
New lines: Ovation has been making a better acoustic guitar. I hope to see this continue. I feel a sense of ownership with them although they don’t send me the Xmas cards that some of you got. I’m sure some on this board know more about upcoming changes and if that was the nerve I hit I’m sorry.
I would just like to see more information on how O plans to improve. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | You didn't exactly step on a nerve, but my work takes me out among the "sheep" all the time. It's when you start thinking along the lines that "all are sheep", that they will surprise the hell out of you. Our politicians out here made that mistake and got bit.
As to the "do your homework", you can't know it's there until somebody tells you. And to be quite honest, I envy you getting to go thru the archives for the first time. I'm about on my 4th time thru and learn more and continue to enjoy them every single time. It truly makes for a wonderful beer and nachos kind of afternoon. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Going back to the Adamas Q.....I would not expect to see a production guitar called the Q....my take is it is what we in the R & D biz call a "technology demonstrator", to show that a concept or a feature WORKS, before introducing it on a production model.
There are many types of technology demonstrators, some are public, like show cars at auto shows, some are internal to a company and never meant to be seen.
How do we know that a feature or two from the Q didn't find its way into the LX????
Also, I finally saw the guitar that started this string today in Guitar Player....actually, I kinda LIKE it....but, then, I think Rainsongs are interesting, too. No accounting for taste, or lack or it, I guess. :eek:
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Cool. I will run through the archives to draw a better base. I have traded the nachos for General Tso's chicken and some Egg Rolls.
The greatest gift God gives us is choice! It's what we do with it that has us in the state we are in. I don't imagine people call in a detective to tell them why everything is going so good lately. Your job is going into my prayers.
...Now, about the future of the acoustic Os... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | MWoody
To reiterate what Mr. Pi is saying, we have been trying to rip a new a--hole, figuratively, at the O factory to try to solve the problem that no new artists seem to be playing Ovations. We, the lunatic fringe, have been saying that artists will gravitate to a guitar brand that will provide them with quality instruments at a decent price when they are learning their trade, every musician goes through the period in their career when money matters. Things like the EliteT are steps in that direction. The next period is the one where the cost of instruments is not as important as quality and reliability, here is where the Adamas and high quality Custom Legends etc. should emerge, the final period is professional success, and here is where Ovation's willingness to build any guitar you want or can imagine should kick in.
Ovation seems to have lost the battle for the final stages, even though they are selling many guitars. They have some great possibilities but there seems to be an anti Ovation thread out there that needs to be overcome.
In my humble opinion, new members like yourself and others are the opportunity to get insight into what might improve the image, so speak your mind as honestly and critically as you can. No success was ever based on the opinions of those who are timid (that is, yes men/women). If you see a flaw, point it out and we will all benefit.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bailey, I think Ovation is losing the battle for the "arrived" artists lately because there is a tremendous movement in "back to natural" in music....that is why acoustic music is experiencing the resergence it is.
It is "cooler" to be seen playing an all-wood guitar now. I would call it an "anti-technology" thing, almost. Those who are interested and willing to be seen riding the tech edge in instruments are going more for the CA and Rainsong.....Ovation isn't edgy enough!!!!
Unfortunately, Martin, Gibson and Taylor are perfectly placed marketing-wise....and Martin has the history to give themselves the "coolest" status. Plus they all seem very willing to put out endless numbers of artist signature series guitars, which is great PR.
Ovation has the problem that Adamas is not seen as a premium instrument, although sound-wise and quality-wise, it is up with any of them. My ME 12-string is the finest sounding guitar I have ever played. I think the problem is IMAGE, or LACK OF SAME. We need some pictures of Kaki King playing an Adamas in Adamas-specific ads....Melissa Etheridge, Godsmack as well....ads with artist endorsements can start the ball rolling.....
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Roger
Very good comments, and let me add something, the Adamas is a great guitar but I believe, and this is just my idiotic opinion, that the Adamas (and pictures of the proposed Q) lacks (what would be called in a song, a hook) a distinguishing feature that would cause someone to say "I want that guitar". I accuse Ovation of being so proud of their technology and sound with the Adamas that they have ignored the appearance, to me, the damn thing looks dowdy.
Have at it Adamas people, and maybe after you have reamed my ass you will have suggested some changes that will make an Adamas as desired as a Martin D-45. :rolleyes: :p ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | My thanks to the many opinions and directions expressed on this board. As a result I have sent back my CP2003H,(the honey coated panelmeister), which I still consider to be an excellant guitar. I have asked Al to fetch me an Elite LX while he beats the pavement in Annaheim. :D
It's not too often that an old married guy gets permission and the funds for a great guitar in between remodels and orthodontist waves.
Perhaps the LX upgrade is the hook! Because I think I swallowed it.
Perhaps by next Christmas I can look for a 12 string :) |
|
| |
Ugly CA Legacy AE