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Location: south east Michigan | I wonder.....Is it a good idea to ship something as temperature sensitive as guitar in the dead of winter? Metal parts come into our shop feeling like the were kept in the deep freeze all night. Obviously you would want to leave the guitar in it's case until it came up to room temperature. Something to think about?
Brad |
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Location: SoCal | One of the reasons that I use Priority Mail from post office is that it is 2-3 days, even from west to east coast. Expensive? USPS Priority to Nils was $29 for shipping and insurance - and not banged up. Previous to Paul Hebert in Lafayette was 2 days. Compare that with 5-6 days minimum in a UPS truck - always a concern. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I don't think it's a problem. Just loosen the strings before shipping and when you get the guitar let it warm up slowly to room temp before tuning it. Dave |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Or...ship it to me in Florida where it's warm...& I can send it back out next summer. |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | I had a recent purchase shipped in UPS from a guitar store in Florida to Ohio. Because it was shipped the week of Christmas it took 12 days. Luckily most of that time was in Florida. It arrived on one of the coldest days of the year here +15 degrees. Let it warm up without opening and everything was fine.
Steve |
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Location: SoCal | From my post in the 30th Anniv CL...got a 1158 slothead CL 12-str in today. Damage of hairline cracks that were not disclosed. Small hairline crack had been well disclosed. Other than the hairlines cracks, everything about the guitar is near-new. Too bad, a wonderful guitar with a noticeable "scar" across the face.
He called me today after getting my email of the problems. He is emphatic that the damage occured during shipping. Either temperature or maybe they threw the box around. Don't know. Box is scuffed up as most boxes through UPS are but the box doesn't show impact damage. Shipped in OHSC.
San Diego weather is 68 degrees, still allowed the case to set before opening.
He will be putting a claim into UPS...we'll see how well their insurance works. They can inspect here and will keep the shipping box. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I have a GREAT interest in this exact topic....I have my GC 12-string coming from New Jersey via UPS....it is supposed to arrive here in Detroit on Friday, the high temperature is supposed to be around 18. It was shipped Tuesday.
I asked the seller to loosen the strings and to have the UPS Store do the packing themselves, plus the guitar is in the OHSC. And it is insured for most of the value.
I intend to let the guitar warm completely to room temperature before opening it. Let's see what shape it is in when I open it.....there is not supposed to be any issues with the guitar other than light pick scratches.
Link to the eBay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369820999&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Tony,
I'm interested in how UPS responds. Whenever we have damage at work, UPS almost always claims "improper packaging" and refused to pay for the damage. I've always wondered wht they would do when there was insurance on the item. Please keep us informed. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bill, if you let UPS package it, I can't imagine how they could get out of paying the insurance!!!! My logic for letting The UPS Store do the packing on the GC 12-string.....
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Arte there before & after pictures to verify the damage. With today's digital cameras, it might be nice added "insurance". |
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Location: SoCal | Gee, and I paid $510 for my GC 12-str a couple of weeks ago (and $65 for s&h - ouch.) Hopefully yours arrives in as good as shape as mine - no problem in shipping.
For the CL 12-str, I have pictures, the box, and the guitar is available for evaluation...seller has the pictures that he took, only has 50 feedback but 100%, etc. Don't believe a UPS employee saw it prior to being packed as done by a company where his wife works. I have shipped UPS through Office Depot with insurance...no one checked out my merchandise before issuing the insurance.
However, whether UPS packed or not - probably UPS will probably turn down. A broken neck (with crushed box and OHSC) or lost box is probably a decent case. I can hear it now, "We can't be responsible for temperature changes and you don't know it was caused by temperature, maybe it just happend."
Hopefully for the seller, they will accept the claim.
Think about it - what is the answer why we have some O's with no checking and some with a bunch? What caused it? I have a CL #1619 yr 1982 with checking, a CL #1619 yr 1979 with none. |
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Location: Waurika OK | Just a thought. Guitars are shipped from the factory at all times of the year, and not packed as soundly as most of the ones that go from individual to individual. I would think they spend more time on someones freight dock or in the trailer in transit. This is in the dead of winter and the hottests parts of summer.
As some have said, probably the most important thing is loosen the strings and good packing.
Noel |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | This thread interfaces with ones concerning finish cracks. Ovation finishes are prone to cracks in the finish, period. In my experience with shipping hundreds of Ovations, an impact is most likely to initiate the crack. Cold weather increases the risk.
I give simple packing instructions to everyone from whom I buy and Ovation, and I am happy to pass those on to the board:
Packing tips:
- make sure the guitar is detuned
- put a sheet of bubble wrap over the face of the guitar in the case
- use any extra front/back room in the carton for protecting the face side of the case. No use worrying about the bowl side......
- mark THIS END UP on carton with arrows pointing toward the head end in order to prevent cartons from being stacked on it.
UPS is notoriously difficult in acknowledging that they cause damage while shipping, and getting them to pay a claim takes a lot of determination.
BTW, Ovations shipped from the factory in factory cartons do not meet the requirements of 2" clearance in all directions. About the only factory cartons I have seen which are big enough to do so are those of T*ylor and M*rtin. |
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Location: SoCal | In the case of the 1658 CL 12-str (finish cracks), UPS called this morning concerning the insurance claim, will send someone to inspect w/in 24-48hrs. So, we will see.
Seller had loosened the strings, OHSC, even had formed foam around the case. Due to foam in the box for the 1658, more insulated that the 30th Anniv CL shipped at the same time. No damage to the 30th Anniv. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | All it takes is one good shot to the carton to drive the force through the case into the top and cause a crack OR to ship the carton flat with a lot of weight pressing on it. The case can only withstand so much pressure.
The carton does NOT have to show damage for the cracks to have been caused while in the care of UPS.
Good luck, Tony! |
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Location: SoCal | Thanks Paul...
Actually, that is what it looks like - no damage to bowl but...vertical crack from rosette to bridge, mid distance and from the vertical crack is a diagonal crack up to the inlaid/binding. Was inside the OHSC but saw this once when a OHSC case was dropped...no damage to the case but similar damage to the guitar.
Good luck on the charity auction. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | The fact that the cracks appear to radiate from the bridge and the fact that the bridge is the point that absorbs the pressure from weight or impact tend to reinforce my belief that this IS damage at the hands of UPS.
Interesting charity auction. I doubt I will win this one, but it would be a great way to get the 2004 Collectors'. I bid on a charity Strat, too.... ;) |
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Location: south east Michigan | Paul,
Great detective work!
Tom,
I hope UPS will see it the same way. They can be thick headed sometimes.
Brad |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | Brad,
Probably not so much detective work as it is the cumulative experience of receiving and shipping literally hundreds of Ovations.
"Thick headed" is often right for some UPS loss control investigators (the agents who inspect for damage and make determinations on claims).
I recently bought a NOS Guild Paloma classical acoustic/electric, a rather rare model and perhaps best known as the one Sting uses in concert. Note: this guitar was NEW.
It arrived with extensive cracks radiating from bridge across the face and back of the guitar, as well as numerous cracks in the finish around the headstock. The carton for this baby had been body slammed.
I reported the damage to UPS, who picked it up and inspected it before returning it to the store who had sold and shipped to me. They denied the claim, saying they could find no damage to the guitar. We are still sorting this out.
That isn't just thick-headed; it is BLIND!
BTW, a word of advice to those who file damage claims with UPS that are denied. You can insist on a second opinion and that the examination be done in the presence of the sender (since they return the package to the sender in the case of damage claims). My local guy has been overruled on numerous occasions by having someone else check it out in an environment more conducive to a fair outcome.
Sorry to make this so long, but I feel this information can be of use to anyone who is buying or selling guitars over the Net and using UPS as the carrier. |
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Location: Central Oregon | I will use the USPS for guitar shipping from now on. The 2002 Tony sent me arrived in perfect shape, even the box was in fine shape. It was also very fast, two days & it was here (So.Cal. to Central Oregon). I was amazed. Big temp change & zero problems. I let it warm up for a while in the case. Cheaper than United Parcel Smashers. I've only tried one damage claim through UPS & ended up with nothing. UPS blamed the shipper (& so do I, at least mostly), the shipper blamed UPS (who really did tear the crap out of the box, lousy packing or no). UPS took the box of smashed crap & told me basically tough shit. They didn't even offer to return the package of smashed crap. I got zip. Well, I did get the song "Ode to Agent Gully", I've had a lot of fun with that.
/\/\/ |
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Location: south east Michigan | Just a suggestion.....If you do get a UPS shipment that looks banged up, take a picture BEFORE you open it.
Brad |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | Nils,
I believe you can insist that UPS deliver the wreckage to you. If they didn't pay you for it, it is still yours.
FYI, Priority Mail is NOT cheaper than UPS. USPS insurance is much higher (maybe because they are more likely to actually pay it!!) and the base rate is higher than UPS ground. It isn't necessarily faster, either, unless you are shipping across the country.
But I sure do understand your feelings toward UPS! Maybe I have become an enabler in my continuing to use their services, lol. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I only use USPS when there is no real choice due to cost for overseas, but UPS has the best claims department of all of them. Granted you need to get 2nd opinions sometimes, but they deal with SO MUCH fraud, that I understand their stinginess. There is a whole buisness out there of sending broken guitars and electronic gear (most common scams) to collect the insurance. Lisa works at a fulfillment house and uses ALL of the majors and several independants. I won't use her language here, but basically in using all of them, NONE of them rise to the top of the service chart. On any given day they ALL lose, break and mis-ship. |
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Location: SoCal | Miles - you have given me some hope. Not a lot but a little. Seller has before pictures, I have after and the guitar; the new box at mailing has the typical UPS-looks like it was slid back and forth on a dirty truck floor on all sides (must have been a dirty conveyor belt-bull); box not crushed but small areas of cuts/compression breaks in the cardboard (probably would have been through the box if the formed foam cushion or case hadn't stopped whatever hit the box - typical of UPS handling. I have had boxes from UPS with breaks in the box that I could put my hand into.
Result is a beautiful top is damaged between shipper and buyer. Not a small hairline but a crack across the face. Per Kim at Ovation, pennies to fill and buff but about $350 to sand down top and refinish (plus as he described "the ride".)
I originally posted not to bash shippers - I am interested as to how the process goes for an insurance claim when it is a finish crack where adjuster can say "Gee, Ovations are prone to finish cracks, it is 23 yrs old - the finish must be brittle, why do you care - it didn't crack the wood, the case isn't damaged, it wasn't inspected and packed by a UPS shipper (yet, they issue insurance on the box brought in and they had the opportunity to open to inspect and it is a unilateral contract), etc.
However UPS handles it may be close to how any shipper would handle a finish crack. We buy insurance to safeguard our investment that we are sending...fine, if box lost or crushed under the wheels of a truck - we'll see about finish cracks. Too bad there isn't a plastic film (like we see attached to pickguards and pickups to protect) that could be applied to the top. Al said a couple of guitars he took to Ohio (Columbus) guitar show developed a couple of cracks. This seller used a new box, had formed foam cushions, a good OHSC case, loosened strings, etc., and still damage occured.
Got to be a better way to transport these guitars.
Rather than the UPS normal procedure of picking it up from me, evaluating the claim, and sending back to seller - they will come out and take pictures, leave the guitar here.
Their normal procedure of sending the guitar to the seller leaves the seller with full payment and he gets the guitar back - would leave me with a hole in my wallet, no guitar, and a potential conflict to get the guitar back - payment of the claim to me (payable to seller as seller bought the insurance) or a refund from the seller of part of the sales price.
Paul B's quote "Priority Mail is NOT cheaper than UPS." Worth checking as I have found it cheaper in a couple of cases (may be a temporary difference in rate structure.)
Cost $23.50 plus $6 insurance ($900) (19lbs) to send Priority Mail from San Diego to Central Oregon (to Nils) - less costly than UPS or FedEx. Shipped Friday, delivered Monday (about 1,400 miles.)
Cost about $35 (20lbs) to send Priority Mail from San Diego to Lafayette, LA (Paul H.)- took 2 or 3 days, don't remember.
I sent Priority for the above items to primarily to reduce time in transit (air, short trip by truck,) cost was secondary but it did cost less.
A regular guitar box will go Priority, much larger is parcel post for more than UPS and by similar transportation. |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Got to be a better way to transport these guitars.
hmmm... with the political climate in the World today, why don't we gather ALL of the DEDICATED Ovation owners/users/addicts and create our own Ovationland around the Mother Ship Factory. We would then ALL move there and have full and complete unfettered access to any model and would give Mother the valuable protection she deserves....
just a thought.. President Al..... :confused:
tim |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | To add fuel to this already interesting fire....my GC 12-string arrived a couple of hours ago via UPS.....it was packed so that the guitar/case stood on its tail upright....there is one hole in the side of the box, but it appears that nothing got through to the case(zillions of styrofoam peanuts in the way). I opened the box top(which had a huge wad of bubble pack for cushion) and found that the metal strips on the case are COLD, so I am leaving it be for this evening....we will see the condition tomorrow morning.
The seller of my guitar sold another one on eBay at the same time (a Washburn) and it went to CA via USPS Priority Mail....it was significantly cheaper than UPS. I went UPS due to Al's recommendation, plus I wanted The UPS Store to do the packing(I would HOPE a professional place would pack better than an amateur).
If the guitar has been damaged, I'll pursue it and let you all know how it ends, but if it is, I probably won't spend any more time or money buying guitars on eBay......
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | What did the UPS store charge for packing? |
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Location: Central Oregon | Originally posted by Paul Blanchard:
Nils,
I believe you can insist that UPS deliver the wreckage to you. If they didn't pay you for it, it is still yours.
But I sure do understand your feelings toward UPS! Maybe I have become an enabler in my continuing to use their services, lol.
I probably could have demanded they give it back but I didn't want it. It was heavy & probably would have cost another $3.50 to throw it away! I just thought it would have been a nice gesture if they had asked me if I would like to have it since I did buy & pay for it. Not really a big deal, it was just a stupid TV/VCR. I've bought several since for less money at local hock shops. I really don't know what I was thinking when I bought that one off ebay. Duh.
Btw, I'll never buy anything electronic & heavy from ebay again. Too heavy, too fragile & too expensive if ruined. For instance, I would never consider buying an amplifier. I know, I know, many of you have gotten them with no problems, but I see no reason to chance it.
I have had 5 guitars shipped to me UPS & I've shipped two out via UPS with no major problems, although my 1612 arrived with the box beat up some & the truss rod nut up by the headstock in the OHSC. The volume pot was about to fall out too, & there were several very small dents in the neck & a little chip on one wing of the headstock that the seller said weren't there when he shipped it. Probably the nut bouncing around in there. It was well packed. I lucked out & the brass nut didn't ding the top.
On the other hand, the box Tony sent me USPS with the Collectors in it was in really nice shape compared to most of the ones that arrive UPS. No damage inside or out. Still, I really do think that shipping anything, no matter the carrier is a gamble, no matter what you do. The only way I feel completely at ease when having a guitar shipped to me is if it's going to a guitar store first like my 1858 did. If it had been damaged they would have had to order me another one. :)
This is a good thread, we have probably all had at least some experience with shipping guitars in one way or another. The more we know, & the more we share, the more likely we are to avoid some of the pitfalls.
/\/\/ |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Peter, the charge was $27.60 for Ground shipping, $15.00 for the packing, and $4.50 for insurance, as I wanted $400, and it is $1.50 per $100 over the first $100.
Looking at the package, I am not sure I got what I was expecting in packing quality....I have shipped bicycle frames via my local UPS Store and they did a MUCH better job of packing IMHO. But it does appear it was adequate and that is really what matters.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
GRAND OPENING SOON! - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | Not shipping related but still important....
Make sure you take into account where it is being shipped from and to. I bought a beautiful Custom Legend a couple years back. I can't remember where it was shipped from but it was a place that was warm and moist. It arrived fine but the top cracked after 1 month in beautiful, dry air, cold, Chicago winter. Totally my fault, but I've never had any problems before. Now my best guitars are kept in 1 room with a humidifier.
Winter also does wonders for my hands. Like my Ovations, both of my thumbs have developed cracks. Very painful when playing. :eek:
Bradley |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Just opened the GC 12-string an hour ago....BEE-YOO-TI-FUL!!!!.....No problems at all. Other than the dust, you would not know that this is not a new guitar. I've seen new guitars at Guitar Center that looked far worse.
I nervously brought the strings back up to concert pitch(I asked the seller to loosen them)...hoping I wouldn't hear a POP from around the bridge!!!! I'm going to put new strings, D'Addario .010s, on it later this weekend. Nice light strings, no reason to put an old guitar under high tension. The strings that are on it look about 10 years old...the period that the seller said he had not played it for.
I just checked the serial number...it was made in 1981.
So far, so good!!!!
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
NOW HERE - 1981 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Congratulations! Let us know how you like it. |
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Location: NJ | With all of this "packing/shipping" talk,
I just couldn't resist:
http://www.files4fun.de/funonline/bubblewrap.swf |
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Location: LewistownPA | IMHO, USPS Priority Mail is the best way to go. I've had UPS damage a Custom Elite I once bought(ugly big finish cracks on the top and a broken "ear" on the headstock) but have never had a problem with Priority Mail.UPS did pay partial claim but I was never really happy with the guitar that way and ended up selling it.
I have a nephew that loads and unloads trucks for UPS. He tells me they are under such pressure to work very fast that packages are literally thrown about and they totaly ignore any warnings of "Fragile". Now I don't know if US Mail workers are any better but in my experience, both with guitars and other items, the packages coming through the mail do not look as beat up as UPS's often due. I think cost wise it depends on where it is going;sometimes UPS is cheaper and sometimes its not (especially their 2 day service). Any price difference to me is minor and well worth it. |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | This great. It has rained all day so far & this will allow me to get rid of the frustration.
http://www.files4fun.de/funonline/bubblewrap.swf
Thanks & I like manic mode the best. |
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Location: Central Oregon | Winter also does wonders for my hands. Like my Ovations, both of my thumbs have developed cracks. Very painful when playing.
Bradley
I know what you mean about painful cracked thumbs. I've had problems with my thumbs cracking in the winter too. It usually takes forever for them to heal once they pop open. I finally found a simple prevention last year - Chapstick! I rub a little on the tips of my thumbs every few days whenever I think of it & rub 'em back & forth together a little. No problems yet this winter. You might give it a try.
/\/\/ |
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Location: south east Michigan | About cracked thumbs & fingers. Me too....big time. On the good side I have never had a problem gumming up my guitars with sweaty or oily hands. But I do deal with skin cracks. I use a product called ZIMS CRACK CREAM with a band-aid. It's available at all the chain drug stores.
I do the Chap Stick thing also.
Brad |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Bag Balm works pretty well too. I know a lot of trades people that swear by it. Another one is lanolin. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | (laughing).....YES, Bag Balm should work well....my other main hobby is cycling and Bag Balm is one of the hot tips for prevention of contact sores for your rear from cycling too long. Another thing that should work is Chamois Butt'r, sold at bike shops for the same thing....has lanolin in it.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String |
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Location: Atlanta, GA | I just received a new Celebrity CC057 that was shipped UPS Ground from Buffalo, NY to Atlanta, GA without a problem. The vendor packed the guitar in the hardcase and then the Ovation Factory box stuffed with tons of paper. After reading this thread I guess I consider myself lucky based on some of the other stories I have read. |
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Location: SoCal | IMHO, with the OHSC, the way we typically ship guitars is adequate. Same day that I got the damaged 12-str from CT., the 30th Anniv arrived w/no problems. Both in OHSC, good boxes, shipped UPS.
Difference? 30th Anniv box arrived dirty but no damage. 12-str was better packed with foam formed cushions for top and bottom. However, both adequately packed for most problems...neither one packed for excessive weight placed on top or box thrown or dropped.
12-str box has pressure indentations and several cuts (or breaks) into (and through)the cardboard box but not into the OHSC. Area of damage is approximate area that wider portion of the case would be (top). Also directly over the top, versus the bowl. Result is what appears to be a stress related crack, not temperature. From mishandling!
UPS rep said Taylor Guitars here in El Cajon is working with UPS on a new way (packaging) to ship guitars. One thought is to use suspension to provide space between box and case to reduce shock. Wouldn't be hard...Toshiba and others have used suspension in shipping for their laptops - just a small plastic film suspending the computer from the outside of the box. Lots of other examples.
Problem is size, not weight... A standard guitar box (standard - size used for Ovation OHSC) goes Priority Mail whereas a slightly larger guitar box would have to go Parcel Post. Due to size, could cost more through UPS or FedEx.
So...luck, good or bad. As the damage can be repaired at Ovation...the real question is whether the insurance we are paying for is any good. Will know by end of next week the decision by UPS.
Then, insurance paid TO SELLER who already has full payment. Note that I then have to collect from the seller who isn't required to pay me as he bought the coverage (yes, with my money but he bought it.) Could there be a problem? In this case, I have a good seller. |
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Location: SoCal | UPS has not responded to the claim after 10 days but their decision is expected this week. This is what I wrote to the seller today:
Please understand that I do not expect to have a problem. However, if necessary, I will play "hardball" concerning this.
If UPS declines, I need contact individuals, claim number, any documentation (or the individual to contact at UPS) - those will be available to you but not to me - you are the purchaser of the insurance, thus the "customer."
Couple of options available if decline are appeal (sometimes it just requires an appeal to effect coverage,) homeowners insurance, complaint/arbitration through Better Business Bureau or Commissioner of Commerce/Corporations, or court action in small claims (in San Diego.) Parties to a small claims that do not show or lose - easy to place a judgement. Judgement not paid can be enforced by seizure through a bank or a piece of equipment (i.e., the UPS truck that services this area.)
UPS issues a unilateral contract (they print, buyer accepts-unilateral places greater responsibility on the issuer, to include disclosure - similar to an insurance policy for life, auto, etc.); I have never seen a disclosure sheet that I signed when I shipped UPS that specifically states non-coverage risks, etc.; UPS had custody of the box for inspection and, as an agent for the insurance company, accepted the fee for insurance; UPS had care, custody, and control; outer box showed damage. As the box was packed better than most shipments from the guitar companies, it would be bad precedence if they claimed insufficient packing/preparation. Maybe Ovation, Gibson, Martin, etc., should consider a different carrier for their products. The UPS rep stated that UPS is working with Taylor Guitars here in the San Diego area to develop better means of shipping guitars. A deposition of a Taylor employee or UPS employee working on a better means of shipping would prove embarassing to UPS. With the internet, all of this information could easily be disseminated.
UPS recognizes you as the claimant, as you purchased the insurance. As the UPS rep said when he was out there, they aren't up to speed with eBay purchases where you are buying the insurance, in effect, as my agent. However, as I paid for the insurance and the guitar - the courts would look at it differently. |
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August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Saga of the 1658 CL and UPS - told that they would have decision by UPS this week. After eleven days, the eBay seller said that the decision maker back east said that they haven't rec'd the pictures that their employee took last Tuesday (11 days ago on a digital camera.)
As the sale was 12/23, may not even be recourse through eBay and PayPal. This may be my last eBay guitar purchase. And, most likely last time I will ship or receive from UPS ground. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Tony,
I suspect you will find no help from either eBay or PayPal. Crass as it may sound, their interest fades quite quickly once they have their money and nothing further of theirs is at risk.
UPS claims seem to be handled by representatives of their insurance company. I am going through the process of sorting one out which was recently denied. The issue is not whether the damage occured while UPS had the guitar; it has to do with 'improper packing'.
This company considers it irrelevant that I have shipped over 1000 guitars via UPS without incident. (Perhaps they consider that to be a tribute to the fine and gentle service UPS renders....) In this particular incident, the guitar was double boxed and packed to beat the dickens. However, I was so foolish as to use crumpled newspaper for packing material and that does not meet their published (online) packing guidelines.
The rep in question actually told me that the guitar should have been triple-wrapped in bubble wrap INSIDE the case. I informed him that such an idea is ludicrous and in many cases -- no pun intended -- impossible. He said I don't know what I am talking about, and that the online packing guidelines are clear.
Someone please tell me where on the UPS site it says that guitars must be triple wrapped inside the case, and I will drop my pursuit of justice....
In the meantime, I also plan to write the regional head of UPS and inform him that their insurance company has made me an enemy of UPS and driven me to the competition.
End of rant..... kinda like having a really good bowel movement. :D |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Just an update as to claim on 1658...insurance company for UPS finally said Monday they had enough information to send shipper the claim forms [27 days after claim filed]. Today [30 days after claim made, 24 days after rep inspected] they ask for value of guitar and a written guitar repair estimate from Ovation. Thanks to Kim [he deserves a raise], within 15 minutes by fax [stated $350 plus $25 shipping, replacement value of $2,300 plus case].
As to value, they had the eBay information as to listing, and sales price. In addition, before and after pictures. They could have checked Orion Blue Book, claim is about 1/3 of purchased insurance. Insurance company told seller it would take another 7 days after they rec'd the information to make a decision.
Incompetence or planned delay? Wonder how long the appeal process takes after they decline? All this time, guitar, case, and shipping box sits. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Tony, all this UPS guitar shipping talk is making me nervous!!! |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Tony another problem with UPS are these UPS store popping up all over the place. The last Ovation I got off of ebay was shipped from one of these places. I wrote to the seller and asked him to send the guitar in a box, but never got a responce. The guitar arrived in it's case, but with no box. The people at the UPS store had just wrapped the case in some sort of tape and shipped it. I remember when I saw the guy getting out of the UPS truck, I could see the outline of a case. Well needless to say, the feet at the bottom of the case were pushed in, and on of the clasps was broken. I was lucky that the guitar was fine. After this I emailed the seller again. He told me the guy at the UPS store said they ship guitars that way all the time. I told him to tell those people NO NO NO NO NO! You do not ship a guitar even if it has a case without a box. Clueless! |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | My UPS horror story - involved a cherry looking '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb.
Took it in for repair from a guy out in Arizona. I told to to ship the chassis only, but got the whole amp.
All it needed was a recap and to have the grounds reflowed on the front, no biggie. Did that and shipped it back, double boxed (which takes some doing).
He got splinters. UPS probably dropped it off the dock, or it fell from the top of a stack being moved by forklift. Not good. The Jensen speaker was bent, the baffle was in pieces and had gone thru the speaker, the cabinet had its sides pushed out, but the chassis was still perfect.
It was insured for $1500, and I put in a claim for $450 since I had an original Jensen (a recone, but must are), and Larry Rogers cut me a deal on a cabinet. UPS agreed to the claim and paid immediately.
So far so good right? WRONG!!!!
On the way back to me - under its original tracking number... they lost it. Poof, gone. So...after two weeks, I put in a claim for the $1050 additional (ie, $1500-$450=$1050). Heh... no way says UPS, the claim has been settled.
I ended up having to hire an attourney, and UPS finally paid up - TWO YEARS later, right before it went to court. The lawyer charged me only $250 since it hadn't actually gone to court - which I though was reasonable, but still, that was MY expense, not UPS's (they would have been responsible for court fees, not lawyers, and only if they lost).
So... if you're shipping an amp, ship chassis, tubes, cabinet and speakers seperately. Double box EVERYTHING. Its your only perfect alibi in a claim - the same reason there are "case covers" (legaleeze - the case is not covered since its the "protective covering", but if you cover the case, then it becomes "contents" not the covering).
AL!!! Take note !!! (maybe you're doing that already). |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | When I bought my Glen Campbell Adamas from a guy in Oklahoma, he just wrapped the case in a piece of cardboard and threw it in the mail...I almost fainted when I first saw it!
The case had been around the world a few times and was in rough shape anyway but it was probably a little worse than it was.
However, that old case really did it's job because the guitar was/is still in great condition.
My recently purchased Custom Viper III is still not here after twenty-one days in the mail...I'm getting a little nervous. :(
Wayne |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7211
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | In the past 5 years I have shipped and/or received at least 200 guitars mostly via UPS. No issues. Pack well, in a box and insure and everything should be fine.
In reading this thread I did notice something that may have been overlooked. We know Ovation guitars are shipped year-round from CT and Korea. And I think they are not detuned, but not sure on that. They do sit in warehouses, and shipping locations. So far no surprises, this is the same for all of the guitar makers. But I wonder, is there a correlation (how could we ever find out) between guitars shipped from hot to cold (or vs versa) and finish cracking in later years. I had heard that a guitars finish is not totally cured for several weeks after it is finished. Is it possible, because of the bowl vs top material difference that exposing to extremes early in its life may be a key to the finish cracking that occasionally happens, and really have nothing to do with the life of the guitar after that point. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | At least in this case, professionally shipped from CT...complete with foam shoulders - UPS rep was impressed; better than the 30th Anniv I got the same day - no damage to 30th Anniv. New box, good case. Were cuts on the corners and pressure marks on top over where the soundhole would have been, typical UPS crude where it looked like it had slid back and forth in the back of a dirty truck (only said it looked like it.) This guitar was thrown, dropped, or something was dropped on it. This had to be a stress/pressure crack. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | I have been putting extra cardboard in the boxes ever since the UPS goons told me that a single thickness was not enough even though it was an original carton.
And when is an original carton not original? when it is used. UPS wants you to ship in the original carton BUT when You ship something in the original carton and it is damaged then they tell you the box is not NEW and USED and therefore no good. the infamous catch 22.
if they want to get you they will believe me. I had a few fights with UPS insurance people they are well versed in Orwellian doublespeak.
btw guitars are shipped tuned to pitch from the factory. BUT if you ship UPS you better tell them you detuned the strings or they won't pay the claim. I always detune when I ship it is just a habit I got into. I think it has no real effect. I think you really need to pack well. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | A short break for Yang.
I shipped a guitar across the US via my Local UPS Store. $7.50 for box, $7.50 for packing, Too Freakin much for shipping - It made it and I received full credit. Al shipped my LX cross country - no problems. All of this was during the dead of winter and while this thread was going on. So have heart, it could be OK.
And now back to our regularly scheduled horror stories... |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | I just got 2 deliveries today. one from CT from the factory. Packed in the original box with all the stabilizers. the guitar came flawless and was repacked to go to its new home.
the second box came from a big box store in florida. The guitar was in the case and put in the box. no extra cardboard no stabilizers no padding, NOTHING.. the case came with a huge crack the guitar is fine. Let the insurance games begin.. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Jeeze Al, I'm so sorry... I didn't get to look at the case, it was "in the back".
Is the guitar as you expected though? |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | the guitar is great |
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Seasonal shipping