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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Thought I'd share a link to an AP story about the success of Guitar Center - but more importantly the direction that the competition is taking.
AP on GC
Excerpt:
DeKarr has lured back some customers by nearly doubling the size of his store to 9,000 square feet. And like other independent operators, he's stressing personalized service, repairs and classes in his effort to compete.
"Their sales people don't have the same amount of training, they don't have the same amount of product knowledge," DeKarr said of Guitar Center.
At times, DeKarr and other small retailers have had no choice but to lower prices to match Guitar Center. Sometimes, however, Guitar Center's price on an instrument will appear lower because the sale doesn't include a case.
"They take the case out of the mix, then they reduce the price," DeKarr said. "In order to survive, you have to be aware of those kinds of things."
Viva la Personal Service and Customer Support! A Road Show Tour would be nice as well! |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Man, dont get me started on "the big box".
First, I happen to be in the midst of a dispute for an associate with the local "big box" as we speak, and they're being real buttholes. Basically they cleverly scammed someone who did me a great favor. I dunno if we'll get some satisfaction from them.
Secondly, their prices are nothing to write home about and if ANYTHING the contributed to the raising of prices, not the lowering thereof. It USED to be that you could go into say... SamAsh and expect a 40% off list deal on Fender, Gibson, Rick, Guild etc etc. Not anymore. Who pays for those expensive fliers? We do. Do you know how much those suckers cost to produce and print? Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands per edition, thats how much. Of course with 125 stores, its only about $5k-$7k per store per edition. But that comes right off the top. Yes the manufacturers co-op the ad space based on previous sales volume (maybe 3-5 percent of sales dollars can be co-op).
Thirdly, my local mom and pop ALWAYS beats the GC price by a good amount. They dont stock as much. They can get anything I want (if they have the line). They just abuot always do 15-20 percent less than the big box. How can they? Lower overhead, no expensive fliers, they make a lot of money with instruction and workshops, and they "sell through" on the sale. That is, you buy a guitar, sure it comes with the case, but you need a strap, some polish, some extra strings, a setup, a cord, maybe an effect pedal or two.
Four. They know their customers by name, and greet them as such every time they enter the store.
I remember when Home Depot came to town (and had good prices). Now they put all the hardwares (except a very few) out of buisiness, and the prices are MSRP.
Same thing with CompUSA - a new store in the area always discouts heavy, and after 6 months, its back to MSRP on all but the very biggest ticket items. In fact, CompUSA goes "above" MSRP in some cases on hard to get, or oddball items. You really have to watch those guys.
Big boxes have their place. Mom and pop have their place. Its hard to compete on the same level - so mom and pop gotta do it on a different level (if they can). |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Round about 1980, before Al gore invented the internet, I traversed the local music stores to buy a nice acoustic for my sister. At that time there were two each - both DJ's - a local Drummer done good turned Store Owner. I was introduced to the lines they had, educated on models and went home with a lovely Dreadnaught Takamine, similar but newer than my Guild D50. It was the people that made the sale.
Nowadays I check several sources on the net and travel much further or place a sight unseen purchase to obtain what I want.
If it were not for this board meeting my musical needs would be a lot less educated and very boring!
I still go to DJ's for strings, books and straps and such. I could save a few bucks but I have learned to appreciate the people. A lot like this place. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Although I agree in spirit, I found on gear at least, GC / MF is running prices so low that local stores can't compete at all. I don't know about guitars, but I know on most studio gear or gadgets and accessories, a lot of times when I check, the GC price is lower than the local stores COST. What really kills is when they have a sale. As example Al and I (and some others), bought Oktava MK 219 mic's for $90 a pair. There are other, even deep discount places that have them for $150 a pair, the list was $500 EACH. Now this is a unique sale item so lets move to my D/A converter. I checked with two local stores before purchase because on higher ticket items I'd like to give someone I know a chance first. I ended up getting it because even after Marylands silly tax, they were 100 dallars cheaper. The local stores not only couldn't come close to matching the price as their price was more than what I paid, but they also would have to wait 4 - 6 weeks to get it, if they got it and it's a line they normally carry and were just out of stock.
That is a good article, and it described places like Victory Litz who does a really great school rental and classes gig to balance the load. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I just buy from Al..... :D
tim |
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March 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Canada | At my "Big Box" store they have contracts for all the big brands (Ovation, Gibson, Fender, Boss) and pretty much all the oter brands you can think of. On these items the price is jacked way way up, because they know you can't get them anywhere else, but on the items that they mutually share with the mom and pop stores, there prices are low and match the mom and pop. It's only recently, due to ebay and the internet that the big box has even started to come down. i refuse to buy anything at that Store! |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | As a small fish in a really big pond, you cannot match the buying power of the big box. I send customers away all the time when I can't compete. It is part of part of business. I wish I could but I cannot buy 5000 sets of strings at a time to sell them at $3 a set. or even the oktava mics that miles was talking about were WAY below my cost on them.
There are no easy answers. I chug a long making a living and so do the big guys,only they move more like an express than a freight train. My only beef is when people use my expertise and then go elsewhere to save a small amount of money. But that is part of business so you live with it.
buy from whomever you trust and whomever makes you happy be it a big box or an independent. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The Octava's are a case in point, they are around £90 each over here. Along with Miles, Stonge & Al I bought 2 at a Guitar Centre in Ct during last years tour for the equivalent of around £24 each. When they were first introduced in the UK maybe 10-12 years ago, they were nearly £300 and we thought they were bargain at that price, though that was long before the Chinese found out how to make condenser mic capsules and really screwed-up the microphone market.
The GC big-box mentality is becoming evident over here & there are 2 or 3 regional dealers who now have a store in most major UK cities. The story is the same. The product range is predictable, the service is poor, the product knowledge is non-existant and in many cases the prices are no better than the independant stores. |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | Same overhere. My old time favorite music store Feedback itself turned into a fourheaded monster eating all the nice little shops.
Everyone's complaining about their poor servicelevel but everyone buys their stuff. Now I found out something which even bothers me more: they are selling multimedia pc's of the DTMPC brand, and claim those have been especially designed for high-demanding DTP and Recording purposes.
So I went to the manufacturers website (www.dtmpc.net) and found out they are only available through: Feedback.
I did a WHOIS query on the domain name, turns out DTMPC is just another line of business, registered to Feedback.
They used to be involved with their customers, but became sharks, waiting for bait, somewhere along the way.
I'd rather pay more and get good service than buying from them again.
Martin |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al... ... buy from Al...
tim
(pssssttt! hey AL, does this qualify me for a free Elite LX?.... shhhh, don't tell anyone!) |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Forget it, Tim.
I was on the "Buy from Al" soapbox alot longer than you've been tryin' to scam a free EliteT for gigs. It hasn't worked. :D |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | ...sigh.... thought it might slip in under the radar.... but "scam"???... such a negative word ;) ... I prefer "Al is such a big lovable lug that he just gave me one for the pure joy of giving"! :D
tim |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Al,
As a means to identify your number one supporters have you considered a run of Lost Art & Vintage Instruments T-Shirts? For that matter - consider the following captions:
"I Love My Dealer!" Go see Al!
"My Dealer's from Jersey!"
"My Dealer gives me multiple O's"
:D |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I always try to give my local music store (Ritchies in Rockaway, NJ) as much of my business as I can. Their prices are usually in the ballpark with Guitar Center and their staff is top shelf. I bought a Baladeer there in December and the price was exactly the same as "musicians friend" which is G.C's online store. The only difference was that the case was not included in Ritchies' price. They did give me nice discount on the case and included a set-up (a good one), so it worked out to about the same. I don't know if anyone has tried to have a set up done at G.C. but the last time I did, the set up consisted of some idiot screwing around with the truss rod for 2 minutes while a line formed behind me. :eek:
Needless to say, that was my last work done at that place. The tech at Ritchies takes about a week to get the guitar done, but it's perfect when I get it back. Well worth the wait.
I did purchase my Legend 12 string at Guitar Center a month or so ago, but that was just a fluke. A friend gave me a gift certificate, so I was in the store browsing and saw this beautiful guitar and the rest is history ;) It was my usual G.C experience. The salesboy (yes boy) was of very little help other than to lend me a pick to play the guitar with. As far as anything else, he was useless (and rather dirty I might add). After the sale, which took over an hour to complete, I felt like I just bought a car. I had a headache and was exhausted and pissed off. Not the way I like to feel when bring home a brand new Ovation! Next time, I'll go to my local guy and have him order the guitar for me or buy it from Al. I don't care if it costs me a few extra bucks. As I get older (and less patient), service is becoming more important to me than price (within reason). |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I usually refer to it as the "Aggravation Factor", and I will gladly pay a few extra bucks or drive a few extra miles (hours) to NOT have to deal with it.
I have two "indie" places (the aforementioned Richie's in Rockaway - I agree - "top notch" guys, and Sweetest Sounds in Lyndhurst - close to work) that I primarily deal with, but go to GuitarCenter if I HAVE to.
(Shit! that reminds me, when I move next month I'll have to find a NEW place!)
Of course, this is just for strings, cables, and odd accessories. Any and all future guitar purchase will naturally be done through Uncle Al. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | Thanks for the endorsement.
I wish I could get a free guitar out of this!!
I have thought about t shirts and even had them designed and ready to go, unfortunately I would need to buy 500 at a time and I just don't have the storage space. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Al, there are companies on the web that will print and ship one up shirts with your artwork.
Yes, they're slightly more expensive. Yes, your direct profits are reduced.
However, there is very low capital investment for startup that way, and you dont have to inventory anything. You could order a few to have "on hand" for locals if that works for you. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I have thought about t shirts and even had them designed and ready to go, unfortunately I would need to buy 500 at a time and I just don't have the storage space.
Al, if you would just send me one of your "extra" Elites or Adamas, that would make enough room for your shirts..... ;)
tim |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Al, what's your fax number? I'll send you a guitar!
Oh! You don't have a fax? |
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The "Big Box" Store