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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I saw this in the Harmony Central Classifieds this morning, and thought it worth passing on:
Don't buy From Musician's Friend or AMS!!!
Asking Price: US$N/A
Condition: Mint
Age: N/A
Description:
Sorry to take up this space guys, but I have a rant. I just ordered a New Marshall Amp from AMS, and a NEW Gibson Les Paul From Musician's Friend.
Those two pieces both happen to come yesterday.
The Marshall Head had a 4 inch slice in the tolex.I called AMS, and they say "Does the amp still work fine"?
It did. And the guy said "It may have been returned..is it something you can live with"???
Hell NO! I just paid $1800 for NEW
Meanwhile, my Les Paul Standard from Musician's friend had 3 cracks in the neck binding, and a finish run on the back.
When I called to bitch, they said "Ok, those minor things are what we call a factory second..... certainly, at that price you can't expect perfect everytime".
Musician's Friend went on to explain that most of their guitars they sell ARE factory seconds....and many people don't know.
Well Gee.... It no wonder these people can whore out Les paul's and Strats cheaper than mom and pop up the street... they pay half as much for them.
I am now convinced that these catalog con's are the "Wal-Mart" of music gear.... and no REAL musician would buy any of their second rate shit just to save a few bucks.
Go to a real family owned store...pay a little more..and talk to someone who gives a shit, who's selling first rate gear.
Seller: Mad_AS _Hell,
E-mail: mad_as_hell (Profile)
Post Date: 4/8/2004
*****
Last I heard, Al still gives a !@#$ and so do your local dealers. |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I recently bought, for my 10 year old son, a Fender Squire Strat. It was fine. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I have had no troubles with the quality of inexpensive items I have purchased from MF when it was convenient to buy from them, and I suspect that is true for most buyers on inexpensive items like the Strat.
However, there is a HUGE difference between the low end of the Fender line and first quality USA made guitars. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 396
| The guitars from musiciansfriend I have bought still had the factory staples in the boxes and were never opened. The quality of the guitars was fantastic (they had not been beat up by 14 year-olds pounding on them in a store). Parts of that post are cloudy. Do you really think someone who works for any company would actually say they sell seconds (unmarked) even if it were true?
Call customer service for Ovation, Gibson, Fender, etc.. and ask them if they send mail order/internet AUTHORIZED DEALERS seconds/lesser quality guitars that are not marked that way.
Do I tend to believe that people at the factory siphon off the best guitars to the mom and pop stores (with some kind of secret code on the box) so that mom and pop can sell their 2 or 3 items per month? I believe they do this type of stealth guitar selection on the grassy knoll right next to where Jim Morrison and Elvis share a condo (yes, they are still alive). Hello?
I think the items come off the factory line, are inspected, and sent out to whichever dealer. If a Gibson arrives with several cracks either get mad at Gibson or UPS because the internet dealer never even removed it from the box. Of course, it is always possible that the dealer mishandled the boxes. The better internet dealers will replace the defective item without even charging shipping. The assumptions that the small family owned store, or just the smaller dealers care a great deal more is questionable. I've found the smaller dealers lie at least as much about brands and models they do and don't carry as many of the larger dealers. Just mention Ovation to a smaller dealer who does not carry them and you'll hear stories! I would agree that you are best off, as in anything, in dealing with people who care when possible (when you can find one). It appears from people on this site that Al is such a person. For any future Ovation purchase, I'll be giving Al a shot at the business for sure. It sounds like the guy in the review had a terrible experience which is fine, but I find his stated conversations with the companies to be questionable. Do the big dealers screw people at times? Yes! Do the little dealers? Yes! When it comes to reading internet postings, I find myself expending many grains of salt. Once again, I always reserve the right to be mistaken. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The user section of Harmony Central is a joke, I gave up on it years ago. This guy may have a legitimate complaint, but equally he could just have a grudge. Without hearing both sides, which rarely if ever happens on HC I wouldn't give this any credence. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Several things:
1) I posted that bit to get an interesting thread started, and that has happened.
2) It does point out a reason for buying from a local dealer. If Paul T. -- now that he is an Ovation dealer -- is just as happy to refer potential buyers to MF as to himself, so be it.
3) There is also reason to not give a much credence to a poster who doesn't give a real name. So take it with a grain of salt.
4) That Harmony Central section is actually extremely useful for finding gear and parts. As a discussion board, which it is not meant to be anyway, it is of little value.
So, this is very much a 'fwiw' thread. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | the big box can often offer prices and terms the small timer can't.
the small timer can often offere service that the big box can't.
both serve a purpose. |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | I bought my 1777LX Legend through Musicians Friend, back in February. Although I did worry about the condition the guitar would be, when I opened the box, I found the guitar to be perfect. I would buy another from them. I don't believe they would sell "seconds". Aslo, I found that Ovation began shipping its first LX series guitars in Jan 2004. How could my product be a "reconditioned or second"?
Tommy M |
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Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Tommy, how is your Legend LX working out for you? I love mine! ;) |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Paul,
I couldn't be happier with it. It has grown on me to a point where I don't pick up any of my other guitars. I'm stuck on this baby.
Tommy |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I'm glad for the good reports, and sorry to sound the alarmist.
I find it interesting that there has been no post to the contrary, however, on that bulletin board. |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Twice I've had to return guitars to Musicians Friend. No problem: they even paid the shipping.
I suspect that this guy got in their face and suffered for it. |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Well.... I'll tell ya what.
I'm none too pleased with Musicians Friend or its parent - Guitar Center (didja know they're one in the same?)
Musicians Friend is NOTORIOUS for NOT stating that the item in their mailout catalog is a 2nd or FRG or whatever (not first quality). Sometimes, as with recent 2003 Collectors Ovations - the guiars appear fine, might have been a minor preamp problem. But even so, they carry a less favorable warranty - and the customer may have no idea he's getting second rate until he gets the note in with the merchandise. I have been in the position of actually ordering an item (Fender's USA Thinline Tele - the double bound one they made a few years ago) and it only occurred to me to ask about the warranty until AFTER the order was placed. I was a less than pleased to find that the item I was purchasing was a factory 2nd, and had only a one year warranty as opposed to lifetime. Now folks, its damn hard to screw up a Telecaster, but on principal, I cancelled the order.
I'm not going to go into the Guitar Center shenanagins here. Lets just say its shady at best, and a respected person here and myself had had a run in as of late with the great customer service they provide.
I would (and do) go out of my way to find alternate vendors if at all posiible. |
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Posts: 1614
Location: Converse, Texas | Well CharlieB... that's why it's best to order from a reputable dealer, right al? |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I am no fan of Guitar Centre or any of the mail-order box-shifters, but every retailer, big or small has had customers bitch about some aspect of their service. You can't please all the people all the time, and being in business would be great if it wasn't for customers. The point is that a faceless wonder pontificating on a largely unmoderated internet message board like Harmony Central is hardly cause for panic. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Panic? |
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Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Hizz, yeah I did, I and I do, or better yet, build my own (Tele that is, amps too).
Paul..."faceless wonder pontificating". What you say is so true. However, I'm not a faceless wonder, and, it is worth mentioning that as a matter of policy MF does come very damn close to the "deceptive business practices" line. So the old saying is never more true - Caveat Emptor.
Having said all that - I'm also gonna say I've had trouble with TWO local mom-pop outfits. One took $500 back in '96 to order me a Tele (of course). After four months of waiting, I called Fender and actually got to speak to someone... who was nice enough to mention that the shop was no longer a Fender dealer (I assume they were cut off for credit reasons). That episode ended in legal action - trying to collect from a shop that also went Chapter-whatever, but somehow was still in business (not for long though, and yes I got my $500 back).
The other mom-pop was a place I used to ghost-solder for, doing all their old Fender amps. I happened to go in there on a Saturday and found the place quite nearly empty. Two weeks earlier, it was full. Whats up...? We're outta business. Hmm, ok you owe me (gets out book) $250 for the last months repairs. They paid, but I got lucky.
So, it works the same all over... ya gotta cover your ass. Period. |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Paul, on re-reading that... I didn't mean to imply you called ME a faceless wonder. Just saying I think I have some measly little shred of credibility beyond that of the faceless wonder who did pointificate. No offense meant. |
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Musician's Friend Warning (indirect Ovation content)