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May 2004
Posts: 6
| Hey folks,
Is there a general belief that there is a difference in sound between the sound of a balladeer with a traditional soundhole...and the Epaulets found on say a Standard Elite?
If there is a difference, does the difference get translated to the pickups and out of the guitar electronically as well? |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Yes, definately!
How - is a matter of significant debate and opinion.
There is a difference in how they sound to the player. Elite - the sound comes to volition some distance in front of the guitar slightly different from the single hole. All O's throw more sound out the front.
There is so much nuance and variety between models and individual instruments I don't think you'll get a definitive answer.
You are in the right place to hear the opinions though! |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "There is a difference in how they sound to the player."
This is probably the most significant difference. They both sound great, and have their own characteristics, but if you are looking to play with other players, you really should test an epulet guitar by having someone else play it while you listen. I was really stuck when I bought my 2001 Collectors and put Al through the ringer. I really liked the sound of the epulets when I was facing the guitar, so much more than the center hole model. However, it was the opposite when I was playing the guitars. I decided that I needed to be less selfish with the sound, and focus on what others would enjoy so I got the epulet model.
The difference as I recall.... from the listening position... The center-hole was a little deeper sounding but did not project the high's as much, or maybe they were just being drowned out. The epulet model, seemed clearer. The deep tones were there, but also the high's and more importantly to me, it had the consistant volume up the neck. The center-hole model sounded more like a traditional wood box, the epulet had more overall range and sounded more like what I want an acoustic guitar to sound like.
I thought this was a good test because it was essentially the same guitar with different sound hole configurations. |
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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Amplified, yes I do think there is a slight difference. The vibational characteristics of center hole vs. multihole are quite different. Unplugged, it's probably just personal preference. Yes, they do sound different, but there is not one rule of thumb that one is always better than the other. Some of the best sounding Ovations I have ever heard (to me) were multi holed. And also some of the worst were multi holed. Go figure. That's not to say there isn't a certain center holed guitar or two that blow them all away. Put a gun to my head and I'd have to choose the center hole guitars in general. I'm just a "single hole guy in a multi hole world who doesn't usually like to plug in when he plays". |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Make it easy on yourself . . . .
. . . . buy one of EACH!! ;) |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | ... I can't explain the difference, but there certainly is one.
When I played my "roundhole" Balladeer there was no comment from my wife, but when I played my 2001 Redwood Multihole... her head snapped around and she said, "that really has a nice tone"! The tone actually has convinced her to disregard the "funny" way it looks! She calls the epaulettes "Angel wings"...
What is it? dunno, probably a combination of all the of the elements, but my NEXT guitar will be an Adamas! |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Kind of in line - A bright young mind looking at my Elite asked "Is the combined size of the multiple holes the same size as the single hole?".
Is there a sound board/air pump outlet ratio in there somewhere? |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | It's been said before... Kids say the Darndest things...they really do! :cool: |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by MWoody:
Is there a sound board/air pump outlet ratio in there somewhere?
Yes, it's called the Helmholtz principle. A soundhole is basically a bass port. The size of the soundhole has a proportional relationship to the volume of air in the body. Changing the size of the port changes the character of the tone. For example soundhole bung "Feedback Busters" work by raising the guitars Helmholtz point, making it a little less prone to feedback at that particulaly strong frequency. The owners guide which came with early Adamas guitars states that the sum of the multi-holes are roughly equivalent to a single centre hole.
Take a look at these reasonably simple explanations of some of the physics in acoustic guitars
http://www.hesston.edu/academic/faculty/nelsonk/PhysicsResearch/Guitar/paper.htm
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211.web.stuff/billington/air.html
Another factor in the sound of the multi-hole guitars is the extra soundboard area between the bridge & fingerboard which is pretty much missing on a centre-hole |
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Location: NJ | Gee! Mr. Wizard, . . . how'd you DO that???!!!!
(An OLD American TV reference, Paul) |
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Location: Upper Left USA | LMAO:
"OK Tennesee. Pull out the old 3DBB and I'll explain".
"Will do Mr. Whoopie". |
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Posts: 555
Location: Wooster, Ohio | I was always a multisound hole person with elites. I thought that it made logical sense to place the holes that way and have more wood up to the fingerboard. I then bought a 97 collectors with a soundhole and just was amazed at the sound from this little guitar. I just think I never met a guitar that I didn't like.
Steve |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | There is definitely a difference. I seem to embrace Balladeers and Legends. I'm OK with Adamas, but I have never met an Elite yet that I liked, LX or non-LX.
Roger |
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Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania | I think I agree with almost everything said here. (but I didn't verify the physics equations ;-) ). Had a single hole Balladeer stolen a long time ago. Had been playing a deep-body Ibanez since 1991 and was very accustomed to rich, deep tones into my ear.
Just got a CE with the epaulets, and when unplugged, often find myself tilting the guitar way back toward me so that I can enjoy what everyone else is hearing! |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | For practice I will face an uncluttered corner to get the reflected sound. Its only natural since I spent most of my childhood in the corner anyway! :( |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | The Ovation Guitars that I used to play early on (1977 or so) Were all Cenetr Sound Hole Guitars and sounded Magnificent! I still like Cenetr Soundhole O's But I had the chance to play some elite models and was impressed by the difference in sound. it's already been described so i won't repeat anyone. Center Soundhole ovations are wonderful. But there is something really magical about the multi-Soundhole Guitars. It's really all preference or as it's been said..It's all Ice Cream. :) |
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Posts: 100
Location: Warren, OH | I had the opportunity to play an Adamas at the closest GC several months ago. I definitely agree with Miles - the unplugged sound that you hear playing is not as good (certainly not as loud) as what those in front of you hear. I had the salesman play just so I could hear the difference. From the front, the volume seemed comparable to the standard "box" guitars (not to say anything about the quality of the sound).
He was impressed - I don't think he'd played it before. |
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Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | I'll throw in my 90 cents worth (damn inflation)
I have a mixture of center hole and multi-hole Ovations. Out of all of them, my wife has always said my Elite 1537 was the best sounding guitar. There are very few times when playing the 1537 that I would agree with her. I usually find that my Custom Legend sounds the best overall, but my Adamas sound best finger picking (great bass). When I play my 1537 at the top of my stairs with all the reflection, I can hear what my wife is talking about.
I have to agree with what most people have to say : buy one of both.
I would just love to hear a 1997 collector's guitar though... |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | What model Adamas do you have? And what you say about your 1537 goes to some points made in the past. Multi hole O's sound better in front of the guitar than they do behind the guitar. |
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Posts: 1792
Location: Rego Park, NY, | I have an Adamas 1597. I waited a long time to buy an Ovation. I tried many of models out there at Guitar Center and Sam Ash. The sound on the Adamas was rich and deep and loud. I found a deal on ebay and jumped at it. Sorry Alpep. At the time that I made this deal I was only a lurker on the web site. Anyway, I know that my son Michael is hoping to buy an Ovation one day.
So Al maybe next time.
Phil |
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Posts: 265
Location: Warrenton, Virginia | The only other multiholes I've played is a resonator and a harmony...both with f holes.
Then I got the LX Elite and I can hear a difference. Not necessarily better, but nicely different.
I like the playability/sound and the looks of it.
I have enjoyed this Ovation very much. |
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Posts: 1900
| There's got to be a physics formula for this:
Wood/Bracing divided by the acoustic standard multiplied times the String/Vibration equals "the Ovation Sound"....(or something like that...)
steve |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Eureka!!! I think you're onto something!!
It's sure a heck of alot easier than some of the mathmatics we attempted to learn in school! :D |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Here you go Steve
:p |
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February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
What model Adamas do you have? And what you say about your 1537 goes to some points made in the past. Multi hole O's sound better in front of the guitar than they do behind the guitar.
I have an Adamas II, 1681-8. It sounds great no matter if I'm in front or back. As I said, my wife likes my 1537 the best.
Bradley |
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May 2004
Posts: 295
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | The Ovation website says that the multi-hole design allows for less bracing, which in turn allows the top to vibrate more freely. Surely that alone would account for a difference in sound between center-hole and multi-hole designs. |
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Soundhole vs Epaulets - difference in sound?